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Intel graphics. They have come far. Where are they going?

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#76
Now I'm using Intel HD 3000 on my i7-2600k bcs I have a problem with GPU.
And it's nice graphic! Of course... I can't play in Assassin's Creed 3 but I can still watch my desktop or play Minecraft - even 50fps! Awesome!
Yes, at least as a spare video card, better that waiting for a replacement. In my case I can play all Half-lifes, TF2, and older ones in my "Intel HD no number" IGP but not Bioshock, Portal 2 even at the lowest of the lowest which my GT 520 can move.
 

cdawall

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#77
As you can see in a matter of 3 years(clarkdale), Intel has increased their performance roughly 4-5x over. other words 500%. That's some serious progress imo. And if you notice intel is beating Amd's APU now. only the A10-5800k, but the 6800k has the same gpu just 44mhz faster. which doesn't amount to much difference
6800k Review 1
6800k Review 2
You are comparing AMD inner-generation the 5800K and 6800K are the same basic GPU internally, compare the A8-3870K and you have a 30-40% increase in performance. Now compare that to HD 4290/HD 3300 and you have the same performance increase as intel. The HD4290 was just as fast(slow) as clarkdale's iGPU.
 
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#78
The problem as i see it with Intel is they do not dedicate as large of die space as AMD for on die GPU
if you'd read my post yo'd see that that doesn't seem to matter as intel's iris pro is beating or matching amd's best igpu

You are comparing AMD inner-generation the 5800K and 6800K are the same basic GPU internally, compare the A8-3870K and you have a 30-40% increase in performance. Now compare that to HD 4290/HD 3300 and you have the same performance increase as intel. The HD4290 was just as fast(slow) as clarkdale's iGPU.
i dont quite understand your post. i believe you're making a point of Amd's performance over the years? I suppose my main point was to show Intel's progress and how they've caught up to AMD's igpu in a matter of 3 years, having very very little GPU knowledge and experience. Plus its only taken them really 3 years of dedicated iGPU development to get where they are. Add another 3 years and they could very well cut out entry level discrete cards.
 

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#79
i dont quite understand your post. i believe you're making a point of Amd's performance over the years? I suppose my main point was to show Intel's progress and how they've caught up to AMD's igpu in a matter of 3 years, having very very little GPU knowledge and experience. Plus its only taken them really 3 years of dedicated iGPU development to get where they are. Add another 3 years and they could very well cut out entry level discrete cards.
Intel has been producing on-die iGPU's longer than AMD.

Clarkdale was released in Jan of 2010 and offered the same performance as the HD4290. Which predated it by well over a year and was integrated into the AMD chipset.

Llano (1st gen APU) was released in Jan of 2011 and destroyed clarkdale in performance. Sandy Bridge was released in Feb of 2011 and for the most part Llano still outperformed it.

Ivy Bridge was released in April of 2012 and still can't beat out Llano consistently, in March/June of 2013 Trinity (2nd gen APU) came out and handily beats Ivy Bridge overall and competes with Haswell which shares the same release.

AMD is doing all of this on 32nm. With a drop to 22nm lithography AMD's iGPU is only going to get better. Intel needs to offer way more performance if they want to take the iGPU crown any time this decade. AMD still isn't even using a GCN GPU we are talking generation old tech for the iGPU is still better performing.

Remember these chips are physically slower than the Intel option. That should speak wonders about the iGPU power. Even with the highest end AMD piledriver chip an old 2600K can typically offer higher FPS with the same GPU. Trinity (an i3 competitor) can take on the 4770K's iGPU and win. That is like taking a 7970 with an FX 8350 and 7790 with a 4770K performance wise. The iGPU's aren't even in the same league yet. If steamroller offers the CPU performance gains it is rumored for intel's iGPU will be outclassed night and day.

Claiming AMD should be able to due to the ATi purchase is a waste of air. Intel has more R&D than AMD could ever dream of. The inability to produce a truly better iGPU is sad to me. I am impressed they have gotten better. They are a long throw from clarkdale which is good. That being said they shouldn't be beaten by anything AMD has to offer. The money put into those chips isn't comparable.
 
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#80
They don't need to when they're pushing much higher clocks. I think Iris Pro 5200 clocks in at 1.3 GHz. Don't forget Intel has a large fabrication advantage.
Iris Pro is with i7 and your not comparing apples to apples with Trinity APU's. Intels' Core i3 CPU's do not compete with AMD's Trinity, They are far behind in this segment
 
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#81
Intel has been producing on-die iGPU's longer than AMD.

Clarkdale was released in Jan of 2010 and offered the same performance as the HD4290. Which predated it by well over a year and was integrated into the AMD chipset.

Llano (1st gen APU) was released in Jan of 2011 and destroyed clarkdale in performance. Sandy Bridge was released in Feb of 2011 and for the most part Llano still outperformed it.

Ivy Bridge was released in April of 2012 and still can't beat out Llano consistently, in March/June of 2013 Trinity (2nd gen APU) came out and handily beats Ivy Bridge overall and competes with Haswell which shares the same release.

AMD is doing all of this on 32nm. With a drop to 22nm lithography AMD's iGPU is only going to get better. Intel needs to offer way more performance if they want to take the iGPU crown any time this decade. AMD still isn't even using a GCN GPU we are talking generation old tech for the iGPU is still better performing.

Remember these chips are physically slower than the Intel option. That should speak wonders about the iGPU power. Even with the highest end AMD piledriver chip an old 2600K can typically offer higher FPS with the same GPU. Trinity (an i3 competitor) can take on the 4770K's iGPU and win. That is like taking a 7970 with an FX 8350 and 7790 with a 4770K performance wise. The iGPU's aren't even in the same league yet. If steamroller offers the CPU performance gains it is rumored for intel's iGPU will be outclassed night and day.

Claiming AMD should be able to due to the ATi purchase is a waste of air. Intel has more R&D than AMD could ever dream of. The inability to produce a truly better iGPU is sad to me. I am impressed they have gotten better. They are a long throw from clarkdale which is good. That being said they shouldn't be beaten by anything AMD has to offer. The money put into those chips isn't comparable.
I believe we're diving a little further than just "where are intel's graphics going" and more into price points, which igpu from each competitors are competing. My intend was purely showing Intel's progress and how with all tech, progress only tends to build momentum.

My perspective; true AMD are only on 32nm in comparison to intels 22nm, but by the time they get to 22nm, intel will be on 14nm, will they not?

i don't really consider "these(AMD) chips are physically slower" to be relevant. we've never used they statement when comparing AMD/Nvidia. However your GCN not being used was something i had not thought of and is a very valid point. AMD may be holding out GCN iGPU's for when intel's gpu performance improves. I still feel that Intel is def starting to put some pressure on iGPU market compared to say a year ago. I'm interested to see just how far that 5200 will take them this year; though i would like to know the specifics of Iris Pro, surely they didn't just change the name from HD graphics for the sake of it.

sorry if i come off wrong, just happily debating tech:toast:
 
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#82
Well as mentioned, the only i7's that take advantage over Iris pro is i7 laptops which is a different price point that Trinity Laptops. In the desktop sector, little if any will use the on die GPU. When comparing i3 to Trinity, Intel does not compete period so we are still figuring out where your going? Intel still does not use much of the die for their on die GPU so a die shrink means nothing here except for the CPU side.
 

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#83
Just to throw it into the mix, I tested the IGPU with my 3570k a few days ago, minus some eyecandy it could play stalker CoP pretty well. It struggled when I tried Stalker SoC with my mod, but some IGPU OCing it caught up again decently. I tested these games @ 1680*1050. In a couple years if intel keep going the way they are they will certainly have a midrange on-die GPU that could be considered a force to be reckoned with.
 
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#84
Most persons who buy a 3570 will not use the IGPU and use a dedicated card.
 
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#85
Most persons who buy a 3570 will not use the IGPU and use a dedicated card.
i don't believe the point of this thread is whether it'll be used, but rather in the bigger picture of what intel is capable of now, and the probable possibilities that those capabilities could lead too.
 
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#86
i don't believe the point of this thread is whether it'll be used, but rather in the bigger picture of what intel is capable of now, and the probable possibilities that those capabilities could lead too.
Yes
 

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#87
Most persons who buy a 3570 will not use the IGPU and use a dedicated card.
i don't believe the point of this thread is whether it'll be used, but rather in the bigger picture of what intel is capable of now, and the probable possibilities that those capabilities could lead too.
^^ This exactly, answers my reply to the first quote without my needing to say a word more :D. Nobody would mind having a IGPU that could be considered a good midrange card as a "free" backup. I've never been a fan of on-die IGPUs while they were crap as it just meant added power draw and heat but should they get to the point of being a good midrange card like seems to be happening in a few years intel could single handedly force AMD / nvidia to stop selling the tripe thats considered low-end add-in cards today meaning resources would be focused much more on top teir cards and midrange cards which will only lead to good things.
 
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#88
I've never been a fan of on-die IGPUs while they were crap as it just meant added power draw and heat but should they get to the point of being a good midrange card like seems to be happening in a few years intel could single handedly force AMD / nvidia to stop selling the tripe thats considered low-end add-in cards today meaning resources would be focused much more on top teir cards and midrange cards which will only lead to good things.
For what they are they're pretty damn handy, particularly when doing a build... speaking from first hand experience. Gaming? Not so much. I haven't seen any OpenGL performance numbers for the IGP, but I suspect it's "adequate".

Oh and welcome back Ket, it was suprising to see you... blast from the past.
 

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#89
I believe we're diving a little further than just "where are intel's graphics going" and more into price points, which igpu from each competitors are competing. My intend was purely showing Intel's progress and how with all tech, progress only tends to build momentum.

My perspective; true AMD are only on 32nm in comparison to intels 22nm, but by the time they get to 22nm, intel will be on 14nm, will they not?

i don't really consider "these(AMD) chips are physically slower" to be relevant. we've never used they statement when comparing AMD/Nvidia. However your GCN not being used was something i had not thought of and is a very valid point. AMD may be holding out GCN iGPU's for when intel's gpu performance improves. I still feel that Intel is def starting to put some pressure on iGPU market compared to say a year ago. I'm interested to see just how far that 5200 will take them this year; though i would like to know the specifics of Iris Pro, surely they didn't just change the name from HD graphics for the sake of it.

sorry if i come off wrong, just happily debating tech:toast:
For the most part AMD has always been a lithography behind. The have however always been able to do more on that lithography than Intel with theirs. Case in point was the original phenom's on 65nm, Intel openly admitted they could not have built a monolithic quad core die on 65nm. It was to advanced for their design. The same thing happens now AMD will try and squeeze every once of performance from a lithography before changing due to R&D costs.

As for AMD CPU speed my point was if you took a trinity APU graphics core and placed it on a 4770k instead of a 5800/6800k performance would be higher. It isn't brought up with AMD/nvidia because they are both tested with the same CPU.
 
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#90
imo intel graphics keep up just enough to not choke a system to death.
Every year they may be stronger, but every year what they run, is more demanding.
Pretty much a fair trade from what I see so far.
They upgrade it just enough to live..
 
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#91
imo intel graphics keep up just enough to not choke a system to death.
Every year they may be stronger, but every year what they run, is more demanding.
Pretty much a fair trade from what I see so far.
They upgrade it just enough to live..
yes and no. but they can actually "run" games as you put it. regardless of resolution and settings. iGPU used to be limited even with lowest resolution and lowest settings.
 

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#92
yes and no. but they can actually "run" games as you put it. regardless of resolution and settings. iGPU used to be limited even with lowest resolution and lowest settings.
They still are try and run crysis 3 or metro 2033/last light.
 
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#93
They still are try and run crysis 3 or metro 2033/last light.
Try running some games that aren't known to be demanding games.
 
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#94
Minecraft ran great on the i7-4770K's iGPU until I got my GTX670. GTA IV didn't work at all. Grid2 was bad, but not unplayable.
 

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#95
Try running some games that aren't known to be demanding games.
Then don't say they are good. The three generation old gt520 performs better.
 
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#96
Try running some games that aren't known to be demanding games.
What's the point then? lol.. I have to selectively choose to never play AAA titles?
That's not keeping up. XD

I don't think they intend to go anywhere other than where they are.
Just something to tie you over, if you can't afford or don't want to buy a real GPU.

My Gf got a Sony Vaio new recently. Intel HD graphics.
Had to run at absolutely lowest settings "with lag" in wow and FF was unplayable.
 

cdawall

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#97
What's the point then? lol.. I have to selectively choose to never play AAA titles?
That's not keeping up. XD

I don't think they intend to go anywhere other than where they are.
Just something to tie you over, if you can't afford or don't want to buy a real GPU.

My Gf got a Sony Vaio new recently. Intel HD graphics.
Had to run at absolutely lowest settings "with lag" in wow and FF was unplayable.
That's kind of what I was trying to get at. As it sits intel's iGPU is good enough for two year old games and current games still using that engine
 
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#98
What's the point then? lol.. I have to selectively choose to never play AAA titles?
That's not keeping up. XD

I don't think they intend to go anywhere other than where they are.
Just something to tie you over, if you can't afford or don't want to buy a real GPU.

My Gf got a Sony Vaio new recently. Intel HD graphics.
Had to run at absolutely lowest settings "with lag" in wow and FF was unplayable.
Steams top 10 played games. Source.

Current Players Peak Today Game

125,982 294,830 Dota 2
54,727 78,100 Team Fortress 2
23,390 29,033 Sid Meier's Civilization V
19,290 30,460 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
19,215 23,863 Borderlands 2
17,557 21,314 Garry's Mod
15,304 31,338 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
15,055 47,545 Football Manager 2013
12,807 35,377 Counter-Strike
10,021 29,438 Counter-Strike: Source
I bet at least 7/10 of those games run pretty well on at least hd 4000, and some even probably are playable on hd 3000. For what games are popular intel hd is not bad and maintainable.

I have hd3000 on my laptop. It does not play many games very well. It struggles with minecraft... :shadedshu
I don't know what intel hd your girlfriend has.

My point was though is that crysis and metro both have a reputation for being some of the most demanding games.


Intel hd2000 was really weak, hd3000 is still pretty weak, and hd 4000 is actually decent for low end graphics. Intels 4600 will be coming with haswell and I wonder how far that will go. Intel has such an impressive RnD budget and talent. I wonder how far they can go and how fast. Of course Apu's are far superior in the gpu portion. That is not the point. Where is intel going?
i don't believe the point of this thread is whether it'll be used, but rather in the bigger picture of what intel is capable of now, and the probable possibilities that those capabilities could lead too.
That above was my idea when making this thread. It appears it is kinda turning into arguing over what intel is good for and what it can play. It could be said that intel can't do much right now and that you guys are saying that they will maintain the status quo as games get more demanding. I am getting pulled into it myself, but I ask if we could please focus on the bigger picture.

So we have said that intel right now is still very entry level. From 2000, to 3000, to 4000, to 4600 they have made at least a 25% jump in performance, and even higher with iris pro. Intel has the resources to do more, and it seems they might be with iris pro. Intel sets what is entry level graphics, and I wonder how high they will, and can they rise the bar.

Another thing I think would be interesting to discuss is amd's hsa inside there apu's are further integrated compared to intels cpu/gpu combination. That is more of a cpu discussion though as hsa is to use the compute power of the onboard gpu as if it were a cpu.


Added more pics to the OP for you mussels.
 
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eidairaman1

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#99
^^ This exactly, answers my reply to the first quote without my needing to say a word more :D. Nobody would mind having a IGPU that could be considered a good midrange card as a "free" backup. I've never been a fan of on-die IGPUs while they were crap as it just meant added power draw and heat but should they get to the point of being a good midrange card like seems to be happening in a few years intel could single handedly force AMD / nvidia to stop selling the tripe thats considered low-end add-in cards today meaning resources would be focused much more on top teir cards and midrange cards which will only lead to good things.
those low end cards are for when the IGP fails


Amd is doing more on a larger process than intel could ever imagine on a smaller.
I believe we're diving a little further than just "where are intel's graphics going" and more into price points, which igpu from each competitors are competing. My intend was purely showing Intel's progress and how with all tech, progress only tends to build momentum.

My perspective; true AMD are only on 32nm in comparison to intels 22nm, but by the time they get to 22nm, intel will be on 14nm, will they not?

i don't really consider "these(AMD) chips are physically slower" to be relevant. we've never used they statement when comparing AMD/Nvidia. However your GCN not being used was something i had not thought of and is a very valid point. AMD may be holding out GCN iGPU's for when intel's gpu performance improves. I still feel that Intel is def starting to put some pressure on iGPU market compared to say a year ago. I'm interested to see just how far that 5200 will take them this year; though i would like to know the specifics of Iris Pro, surely they didn't just change the name from HD graphics for the sake of it.

sorry if i come off wrong, just happily debating tech:toast:
 
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