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Intel's 14nm Chip Shortage Continues

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I would like AMD to compete in the high-end/gaming laptop market so we can have better prices.
How about the rumored Surfacebook with AMD 6/8 core?

A leaked document provided to the site claims that the upcoming larger 15-inch Surface Laptop 3 will offer at least six different configurations, starting with the existing 4-core/8-thread Ryzen 5 3550U and Ryzen 7 3750U, but extending into “completely new AMD Ryzen processors with six or even eight cores.”

 

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Intel doesn't have a 14nm+++ process.

From their investor's day back in May:

Officially, there is a single 14nm high performance process dubbed "P1272":

These "++" designations are marketing terms. They were created when it became apparent that the 10nm process "P1274" would was going to be delayed.
So you are telling that, we are using the same 14nm in 2019 that was indroduced in 2014???:confused:
 
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3300U, 3500U, 3700U, even though 12nm, are available and rock.

PS
I can't believe FUD about drivers is still alive. Good job, shils.
In the laptop space? Yes. Problem is who should deliver the driver. AMD or OEM. AMD sometimes lets the OEMs deliver it but they don't always update. For example I have an old all-amd Dell netbook that serves as my home server. The latest OEM driver is from 2015, latest officially from AMD is from 2017. But 2017 one isn't stable and doesn't let me change brightness iirc. So I have to use the "latest" OEM one.

what god damn bios issues?? does amd make bios-es NOW??
BIOSes are made from AGESA that yes AMD provides. That's why you hear so much about AGESA this AGESA that since Ryzen launched in 2017.
 
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In the laptop space? Yes. Problem is who should deliver the driver. AMD or OEM. AMD sometimes lets the OEMs deliver it but they don't always update. For example I have an old all-amd Dell netbook that serves as my home server. The latest OEM driver is from 2015, latest officially from AMD is from 2017. But 2017 one isn't stable and doesn't let me change brightness iirc. So I have to use the "latest" OEM one.
AMD Provides the (stock) drivers now -- chipset + video -- since ca. a year or so. Using AMD stock ones since then on my 2700U -> no problems at all.
 
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Recent Intel GFX CI bootlogs hint that Comet Lake H (CL-H) and Comet Lake S (CL-S) will offer only minor refinements over their Coffee Lake Refresh predecessors. So yes, 14+xN redux N again.
 
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Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
There are many problems surrounding mobile ryzen chips. Some are teething problems, some are the result of the deep running portion of AMD's culture that is resistant to change.

1. The ryzen APUs are not as energy efficient as their intel counterparts. Comparing 35 to 35 watt parts, AMD manages worse battery life and thermals. Dont forget, most laptops are 15 watt now, and AMD doesnt have an APU with such a TDP available, so much of the market doesnt have an AMD choice

2. AMD's drivers for mobile ryzen are abysmal. With first gen ryzen mobile, AMD went full 1998 and made the OEMs write their own drivers! Not only did the OEMs not have experience writing ryzen drivers, but they also did not have super in depth documentation either, leading to garbage releases. This was also quite noticeable on the GPU side, as the APUs couldnt get the latest GPU drivers from AMD, but rather the OEMs had to make the drivers work with the APUs and their custom code. The backlash from both the user base and manufacturers forced AMD to actually suppor thteir parts properly, but as a result, because AMD takes time to get drivers fixed, the APUs still are less then stable. The whole situation is a pile of garbage and should never have happened, but AMD wanted to be cheap.

3. AMD has a long, documented history of poor OEM support. Motherboard makers working with incomplete AGESA code, AIB makers finding out about new RTG products a week before they launch, poor technical documentation, ece. ASUS reps on the ROG forums have spoken multiple times about how poor AMD's motherboard support is; while intel will give full documentation ofthe chips, send ES sample motherboards and CPUs, and work closely with motherboard OEMs to iron out bugs 3-4 months before launch, AMD's documentation was relatively sparse, their ES CPUs didnt run anywhere near the clock speeds of finalized products, their AGESA code was incomplete and motherboard OEMs have to fill in the blanks, and this was maybe a month before launch, not 3-4 like intel. Much like poor support for AMD partnered game developers, AMD's technical support is run ont he cheap and results in annoying, expensive support bugs and patching. Unsurprisingly, int he mobile space, OEMs like to avoid this at all costs, hence AMD failing to make much headway there.

4. AMD as, historically, had major supply issues with CPUs, especially with lower voltage parts. OEMs are rather wary of manufacturers that cant deliver, this is what killed 3DFX back in the 90s.
 
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There are many problems surrounding mobile ryzen chips. Some are teething problems, some are the result of the deep running portion of AMD's culture that is resistant to change.

1. The ryzen APUs are not as energy efficient as their intel counterparts. Comparing 35 to 35 watt parts, AMD manages worse battery life and thermals. Dont forget, most laptops are 15 watt now, and AMD doesnt have an APU with such a TDP available, so much of the market doesnt have an AMD choice

2. AMD's drivers for mobile ryzen are abysmal. With first gen ryzen mobile, AMD went full 1998 and made the OEMs write their own drivers! Not only did the OEMs not have experience writing ryzen drivers, but they also did not have super in depth documentation either, leading to garbage releases. This was also quite noticeable on the GPU side, as the APUs couldnt get the latest GPU drivers from AMD, but rather the OEMs had to make the drivers work with the APUs and their custom code. The backlash from both the user base and manufacturers forced AMD to actually suppor thteir parts properly, but as a result, because AMD takes time to get drivers fixed, the APUs still are less then stable. The whole situation is a pile of garbage and should never have happened, but AMD wanted to be cheap.

3. AMD has a long, documented history of poor OEM support. Motherboard makers working with incomplete AGESA code, AIB makers finding out about new RTG products a week before they launch, poor technical documentation, ece. ASUS reps on the ROG forums have spoken multiple times about how poor AMD's motherboard support is; while intel will give full documentation ofthe chips, send ES sample motherboards and CPUs, and work closely with motherboard OEMs to iron out bugs 3-4 months before launch, AMD's documentation was relatively sparse, their ES CPUs didnt run anywhere near the clock speeds of finalized products, their AGESA code was incomplete and motherboard OEMs have to fill in the blanks, and this was maybe a month before launch, not 3-4 like intel. Much like poor support for AMD partnered game developers, AMD's technical support is run ont he cheap and results in annoying, expensive support bugs and patching. Unsurprisingly, int he mobile space, OEMs like to avoid this at all costs, hence AMD failing to make much headway there.

4. AMD as, historically, had major supply issues with CPUs, especially with lower voltage parts. OEMs are rather wary of manufacturers that cant deliver, this is what killed 3DFX back in the 90s.
1. All suffix-U CPUs from AMD are 15W.
2700U,2500U,3700U,3500U,2200U, etc.
Lower battery life, but AMD do make those.
2. Chipset drivers were made by AMD, though not updated by oems.
Graphics drivers were not offered by AMD for a long time, but were made by AMD.
Chipset drivers can also be downloaded from amd.com for laptops.
3. My system is fully stable with the latest drivers. APU system.
 
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AMD wanted to be cheap.
I don’t think it was a matter of being cheap, I think it was a matter of not having a lot of operational money to do it. AMD was, after all, running on damn near a shoestring budget. Now that AMD is actually making some money with the Zen platform they may have additional money to play with.
AMD has a long, documented history of poor OEM support. Motherboard makers working with incomplete AGESA code
See above.
 
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1. All suffix-U CPUs from AMD are 15W.
2700U,2500U,3700U,3500U,2200U, etc.
Lower battery life, but AMD do make those.
2. Chipset drivers were made by AMD, though not updated by oems.
Graphics drivers were not offered by AMD for a long time, but were made by AMD.
Chipset drivers can also be downloaded from amd.com for laptops.
3. My system is fully stable with the latest drivers. APU system.
1.) I missed the TDP oficially being 15 watt, but much like the "127" watt TDP for the 9900ks, its a meaningless number. AMD's chips pulled way too much power compared to intel, so they were unattractive for mobile usage, where power usage is really important. AMD's APU customers, whom want the better iGPU, are a tiny minority of laptop customers.

2. Chipset drivers and GPU drivers for laptops can be downloaded for AMD laptops TODAY, but not when the ryzen APUs first came out. This was a major critcism of AMD, and you can look up reviews of these machines to see this criticizm reflected by reviewers, that OEMs were responsible for writing complete driver packages and changing AMD's drivers to match their systems, rather then AMD putting out a generic chipset driver like they had with their previous mobile chipsets going back to the early 2000s, and like intel has done since the 90s. There are threads on reddit, OC.net, and even this very site complaining about the issue.

3. Congratulations, but that's 2 years later, and anecdotal evidence (just because YOUR system works fine, does not mean a problem doesnt exist. There are 3rd gen focus drivers out there that dont have transmission problems, but the vast majority of their foci DO have problems, hence their horrible reputation). First gen ryzen APUs did NOT have stable drivers, that scared away customers as well as OEMs. AMD flip flopped on this decision and started releasing drivers themselves again, but if you are an OEM you need consistent support, not schizophrenic driver support/lack of support that changes every generation. AMD cant seem to figure this out. They shot themselves in the foot in the mobile space, and are now back at square 1 for OEM confidence, and will need to build that reputation back up again.

I don’t think it was a matter of being cheap, I think it was a matter of not having a lot of operational money to do it. AMD was, after all, running on damn near a shoestring budget. Now that AMD is actually making some money with the Zen platform they may have additional money to play with.

See above.
If AMD did not have the resources to support a product, theyshpould not be trying to sell said product.

If nvidia or intel released a set of chips, didnt provide any drivers, and as a result the products using them sucked, you would say that is a bad move on intel/nvidia's part. But for AMD? oh no, the poor babies just didnt have the money; they're the underdog!!! If you release a product, and you dont support that product because you dont have money, and think of a hair-brained scheme to make other companies support your product for you, for free, you are both cheap and incompetent. If AMD cpould not support ryzen mobile, they never should have put the money into them! These kinds of actions are why AMD has a negative association with many power users, because they half-ass things they should NEVER half ass.


It doesnt matter if you are making CPUs, washing machines, TVs, any type of electronic, cars, or other physical good. If you cant support it, dont try to sell it, because it is going to blow up in your face when you cant fix these problems, and that investment cash would be better suited to go into the product lines you are actually achieving some success in.
 
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So you are telling that, we are using the same 14nm in 2019 that was indroduced in 2014???:confused:

From a technical standpoint: yes. During that time Intel has made refinements that utimately make the process better, producing higher yield ratios and clockspeeds.
 
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Even when there are AMD chips to be used?
AMD has great chips for desktop computers. When it comes to laptop chips, though, I'm afraid Intel is still significantly ahead. And right now, AMD is selling all the chips TSMC can make for it too.
 
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