Is a Hamilton Beach TrueAir air purifier sufficient to prevent dust buildup in my PC, or should I also get extra case fans?

[wheresmycar]

View attachment 297095

Seems expensive at first but pays for itself in savings from having to rebuy canned air.

these are expensive. Here in the UK going for around £120

For £50 this 550W unit seems equally great (or similar ones): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dusters-EG...eywords=electric+duster&qid=1684784835&sr=8-5

Ive always fancied buying one but kinda held back since i wouldn't use these indoors. The garage would have been workable but we had that converted into a second living space. Thanks to Phanbuey i'm back to considering buying one *again*.

 

[MarsM4N]

I got the IKEA FÖRNUFTIG air purifier, which is a real steal. Great design (like Apple'ish), 3 stages (first is almost inaudible, no problem during sleep, 2nd stage is fine for watching TV, 3rd stage is kinda loud and only useful for quick fitering the air), metal stand included, can be wall mounted (I mounted it to my desk), filters are dirt cheap, can be upgraded with a gas filter. It also blows out the air on the top, so you get some pleasent air circulation in your room.

Got it mainly to "unfog" my room from eVape vapour when it's too cold outside to open the window. And it's doing a awesome job. The basic filter can even be washed with water & dish soap (not sure about the gas filter, haven't used it yet). Sure it's reducing dust, but there is no single solution to reduce dust in your PC. Clean your room regularly, place your PC not on the ground (better on the desk), set up your fans to have positive pressure, use dust filter & clean them regularly. Also undervolt/underclock to reduce heat & fan speed. The less air goes through the less dust comes in.

 

[Segundoh]

Lasko is fine for the price. A few drops of very light synthetic oil into the bearing behind the fan blade will keep them running for years. You can tell when it's time to do that when you shut off the fan and the blade stops moving much faster than when new or freshly lubed. One of the cancer meds I'm on makes me sweat profusely so I almost always have a fan blowing onto me. There's a 20" Lasko running on low sitting three feet away from me as I type this, I just lubed the bearing last week.

I change my HVAC filter every 3-4 months. If your AC filter has never been changed do it now.

Oh okay that makes sense. So it’s an easy fix, at least. It’s good to hear that’s still a great option and that Lasko works really well with proper maintenance. I’ll be sure to lube it when it stops moving faster than when new or lubed. Illbe sure to change my HVAC filter very 3-4 months too. Thanks!

Smoke is being used relatively given how frequent PC damage from smoking indoors occurs. Particulates in the air coming from outside fully satisfy the smoke condition.

Think of how clouds and rainstorms form. Something very small in the air is sticky enough to attract and collect together particles surrounding it. Most of what fails to pass through the highly turbulent interior of a PC is clumps that formed in a similar fashion.

The most direct example is again that if you vape directly in front of a new PC for an hour and the entire life of those components will be dustier.

Ah I see, I thought you were just talking about smoking. So particulates in the air can still cause issues as well. At least I never open my windows lol. That’s probably not the best idea for my health, but would that prevent most particulates from getting in, at least? And I see that makes sense. So these particulates are what makes dust gather and all like clouds and rainstorms. That is extremely interesting; I never knew that was true for PCs as well. I’ll be sure to never vape or smoke though… I don’t care about it being unhealthy, I just care about it making my PC dustier (just kidding obviously).

Suspended water droplets in vapour are what carry contaminants, bypassing some barriers that may stop dust when dry but not necessarily otherwise, at least for humans.
Vaping is so bad for health as well as PC, popcorn lung, inflammation, permanent scarring etc. Plus the synthetic oils and such that coat everything the ecig vapour comes into contact with.

Keeping electronics room low in humidity and with a decent air purifier DIY or otherwise is good in general.

Oh okay that makes sense. So, that also contributes to dust buildup. I will have to keep my room low in humidity as you said. Should I get a dehumidifier or something? I’ll look into ways to reduce humidity and DIY ways too. I’ll definitely make a decent air purifier DIY to fix that as well. And I don’t plan on ever vapong, so that should help too.

View attachment 297095

Seems expensive at first but pays for itself in savings from having to rebuy canned air.

Thanks for the recommendation! Ill definitely go with that to save money in the long run.

Except, that isn't the case.

Any fluid flowing has what is called a boundary layer or fouling layer. It's the area nearest the surface of the moving fluid and the solid interface. This boundary layer stagnates, and drops whatever is in suspension throughout the rest of the material flow. This is why really old pipes build up a surface of crud on their insides, and why the average house fan has one side of each blade coated in dust despite constantly spinning around.

A hermetic seal around electronics would only be viable if you then rejected all heat build-up into the surrounding environment via radiation and convection, because any conduction would also provide a source of flow and thus some minor deposits of fouled material...in this case dust.


You could, and can, decrease the build-up of dust. Positive pressure, and a venturi inside a single intake, can force the majority of dust out of suspension. An air purifier can decrease the amount of dust in suspension. Thing is...you are the problem here. That is to say most dust is dead human skin flaking off...and as a fellow human I think it's pretty obvious you aren't going to fix that issue any time soon.



Regarding ESD...it's the D part that's an issue. Static charge inducing an opposing charge, and thereby pulling dust out of suspension is a thing. Thing is, even a grounded case builds up dust, and the discharge of said static charge due to poor or insufficient grounding is less about removing dust from suspension and more about frying electronics. I've seen...surprisingly large...dust bunnies do nothing to electronics. My anecdote is as valuable as yours....which is to say neither of them is fact. You can read up on fouling here: Fouling It's not a comprehensive description...but the gist of it is good.

Thanks for the really detailed explanation! That is definitely fascinating stuff and taught me a lot more about all this. So that’s why that house fan issue happens and all. So even a hermetic seal wouldn’t completely fix it.

I have positive pressure right now due to 2 140 mm intake fans and 1 120 mm outtake fan and my bottom intake fan and top outtake fan are unoccupied at the moment. How can I make a venturi then in a PC if that’s possible? As for dead human skin, I suppose I’ll have to make sure I use lotion so there’s less dead skin in the air lol.

And I see, so that static charge is what causes dust to build up. I’m definitely more worried about outright frying my electronics than dust buildup, though the latter will be bad over time. Fouling is definitely interesting for sure too. Is there a way to ground my case even more then lol. I don’t think that question even makes sense, but, you know, I might as well ask.

How long before these typically need maintenance other than cleaning the filter?
I've had mine for about a year now, it's quite excellent.

It’s good to hear that yours has lasted so long without any issues! Hopefully mine does too.

M

I've had a shopvac with a similar design that I havent maintained (and use more often) for like 10 years now, so Im pretty sure it will last a while...

Wow 10 years without any maintenance is amazing. I hope mine lasts that long too.

 

[Shrek]

View attachment 297095

Seems expensive at first but pays for itself in savings from having to rebuy canned air.

Great units and I used mine a lot, however... first the bearings started chattering and they are hell to get to for oiling, and then a few days back the windings started burning (after 14 years); I am thinking to just replace the motor, but that is expensive.

Fortunately I also have the ESD unit.

 

[dgianstefani]

Oh okay that makes sense. So, that also contributes to dust buildup. I will have to keep my room low in humidity as you said. Should I get a dehumidifier or something? I’ll look into ways to reduce humidity and DIY ways too. I’ll definitely make a decent air purifier DIY to fix that as well. And I don’t plan on ever vapong, so that should help too.

I have a dehumidifier as well as an air purifier, as I live in a climate where it rains a lot, and sometimes I dry clothes on the rack instead of outside or in the machine. It's good to have the dehumidifier and quite impressive how much water it can take out of the air in one day. I've put it on an extension and used it to dry my camper van too a few times.

You don't want the air to be too dry as it's bad for your skin and eyes, but it's certainly nice to have the option to reduce humidity when you need to.

 

[nomdeplume]

Ah I see, I thought you were just talking about smoking. So particulates in the air can still cause issues as well. At least I never open my windows lol. That’s probably not the best idea for my health, but would that prevent most particulates from getting in, at least? And I see that makes sense.

There are a lot of unnatural chemical and other pollutants (highest temps on record and constant wildfires) floating around in the air that fall within the same filtration level as tobacco smoke. There are a whole lot more good healthy things fresh air contributes that won't instantly create dust or disease unless you live somewhere highly polluted.

Open a window and air the room out! Sunshine is a natural disinfectant that will also lead to healthier air. Then vacuum/sweep/dust and get rid of as much dust as you can. From there an air purifier of some sort might work great or do very little to solve the problem. In that case an electric duster is your best bet.

 

[bobbybluz]

My big Shopvac has a little over 30 years of use on it. Other than changing the filter a few times I haven't had to do anything else to it. It's seen a lot of hours including pumping out two flooded basements back in the 90's. I don't think it was made in China like the new ones are.

 

[Shrek]

My little (25 year old) shop-vac had chattering bearings (like the DataVac) but getting to the bearings to oil them was a lot easier; but now we are off topic.

 

[Segundoh]

these are expensive. Here in the UK going for around £120

For £50 this 550W unit seems equally great (or similar ones): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dusters-EG...eywords=electric+duster&qid=1684784835&sr=8-5

Ive always fancied buying one but kinda held back since i wouldn't use these indoors. The garage would have been workable but we had that converted into a second living space. Thanks to Phanbuey i'm back to considering buying one *again*.

Thanks! That 550W one seems great too and cheaper. Yeah, I definitely won’t use this indoors either. I heard it’s best to do it outside, though that’ll be inconvenient.

I got the IKEA FÖRNUFTIG air purifier, which is a real steal. Great design (like Apple'ish), 3 stages (first is almost inaudible, no problem during sleep, 2nd stage is fine for watching TV, 3rd stage is kinda loud and only useful for quick fitering the air), metal stand included, can be wall mounted (I mounted it to my desk), filters are dirt cheap, can be upgraded with a gas filter. It also blows out the air on the top, so you get some pleasent air circulation in your room.

Got it mainly to "unfog" my room from eVape vapour when it's too cold outside to open the window. And it's doing a awesome job. The basic filter can even be washed with water & dish soap (not sure about the gas filter, haven't used it yet). Sure it's reducing dust, but there is no single solution to reduce dust in your PC. Clean your room regularly, place your PC not on the ground (better on the desk), set up your fans to have positive pressure, use dust filter & clean them regularly. Also undervolt/underclock to reduce heat & fan speed. The less air goes through the less dust comes in.

Thanks! That’s definitely a great option as well. That air circulation definitely sounds nice too. It’s good that it’s working well for eVape vapor; it should definitely work well for dust then. And nice it’s good that’s a reusable filter; I won’t really worry too much about the gas filter, so the filter itself is what matters. How long have you had this for? I’ll be sure to clean, put my PC on my desk, set up my fans properly, and use a dust filter. I’ll undervolt and under lock as well.

Great units and I used mine a lot, however... first the bearings started chattering and they are hell to get to for oiling, and then a few days back the windings started burning; I am thinking to just replace the motor. Fortunately I also have the ESD unit.

View attachment 297276

that’s good to hear it’s lasted so long. That winding burning issue definitely sounds like an issue. Hopefully I won’t encounter that. Illl be sure to get the ESD unit as well so I don’t static shock anything.

I have a dehumidifier as well as an air purifier, as I live in a climate where it rains a lot, and sometimes I dry clothes on the rack instead of outside or in the machine. It's good to have the dehumidifier and quite impressive how much water it can take out of the air in one day. I've put it on an extension and used it to dry my camper van too a few times.

You don't want the air to be too dry as it's bad for your skin and eyes, but it's certainly nice to have the option to reduce humidity when you need to.

I’ll purchase a dehumidifier as well then. I see, it rains at a normal rate here, but it’ll definitely be nice to use that when it’s raining and there’s too much water in the air. I’ll be sure to not make the air too dry though.

There are a lot of unnatural chemical and other pollutants (highest temps on record and constant wildfires) floating around in the air that fall within the same filtration level as tobacco smoke. There are a whole lot more good healthy things fresh air contributes that won't instantly create dust or disease unless you live somewhere highly polluted.

Open a window and air the room out! Sunshine is a natural disinfectant that will also lead to healthier air. Then vacuum/sweep/dust and get rid of as much dust as you can. From there an air purifier of some sort might work great or do very little to solve the problem. In that case an electric duster is your best bet.

Ah okay that makes sense. I didn’t consider all those chemicals and pollutants. So they cause issues as well. It makes sense that fresher air is healthier, so I’ll air the room out as you said and let some sunshine in. I’ll definitely clean my room and then see if an air purifier works. I’m sure I’ll have to eventually clean my PC, so a duster will be useful when the time comes.

My big Shopvac has a little over 30 years of use on it. Other than changing the filter a few times I haven't had to do anything else to it. It's seen a lot of hours including pumping out two flooded basements back in the 90's. I don't think it was made in China like the new ones are.

Wow that is insane. I hope mine lasts for that long and is able to go h to rough as much as pumping out 2 flooded basements. Just having to change the filter 2 times is definiely impressive. It’s a shame that everything is made in China and much more fragile nowadays.

 

[claes]

Just FYI, 2x140 intake and 1x120 exhaust is more akin to neutral pressure than positive. The front filter is basically cutting the pressure in half (or more), 120’s have more pressure than 140’s etc. Realize this doesn’t help much but it’s been bugging me.

 

[eidairaman1]

Except, that isn't the case.

Any fluid flowing has what is called a boundary layer or fouling layer. It's the area nearest the surface of the moving fluid and the solid interface. This boundary layer stagnates, and drops whatever is in suspension throughout the rest of the material flow. This is why really old pipes build up a surface of crud on their insides, and why the average house fan has one side of each blade coated in dust despite constantly spinning around.

A hermetic seal around electronics would only be viable if you then rejected all heat build-up into the surrounding environment via radiation and convection, because any conduction would also provide a source of flow and thus some minor deposits of fouled material...in this case dust.


You could, and can, decrease the build-up of dust. Positive pressure, and a venturi inside a single intake, can force the majority of dust out of suspension. An air purifier can decrease the amount of dust in suspension. Thing is...you are the problem here. That is to say most dust is dead human skin flaking off...and as a fellow human I think it's pretty obvious you aren't going to fix that issue any time soon.



Regarding ESD...it's the D part that's an issue. Static charge inducing an opposing charge, and thereby pulling dust out of suspension is a thing. Thing is, even a grounded case builds up dust, and the discharge of said static charge due to poor or insufficient grounding is less about removing dust from suspension and more about frying electronics. I've seen...surprisingly large...dust bunnies do nothing to electronics. My anecdote is as valuable as yours....which is to say neither of them is fact. You can read up on fouling here: Fouling It's not a comprehensive description...but the gist of it is good.

Bear in mind a fan is an air foil like rotors on a chopper or wings of a plane, aircraft build up a large charge as they move through the air, that charge can kill a person once landed, aircraft use static wicks which dissipate said charge, those wicks are tested using a megger. I've seen the arc go from my finger to 2 USB flash drives, cause the rig to almost shut off and the flash drives no longer worked after that(not intentional static build up). I've seen an arc pop on a ceiling fan chain lol, Ive popped people in the arm or ear even (Intentional static build up)

I for sure touch case chassis to keep esd from happening again.

 

[Segundoh]

Just FYI, 2x140 intake and 1x120 exhaust is more akin to neutral pressure than positive. The front filter is basically cutting the pressure in half (or more), 120’s have more pressure than 140’s etc. Realize this doesn’t help much but it’s been bugging me.

Ah I see, it makes sense that the front filter would cut the pressure. Also, I just assumed that bigger fan = more pressure, but I see it’s actually the opposite. Should I add another 120 mm intake fan on the bottom then? I’d assume adding intake fans on the top would be counterproductive since, from what I understand, the GPU fans take in air from the bottom and send it out the top. I’m probably wrong there though.

Bear in mind a fan is an air foil like rotors on a chopper or wings of a plane, aircraft build up a large charge as they move through the air, that charge can kill a person once landed, aircraft use static wicks which dissipate said charge, those wicks are tested using a megger. I've seen the arc go from my finger to 2 USB flash drives, cause the rig to almost shut off and the flash drives no longer worked after that(not intentional static build up). I've seen an arc pop on a ceiling fan chain lol, Ive popped people in the arm or ear even (Intentional static build up)

I for sure touch case chassis to keep esd from happening again.

I see, so that’s why a fan builds up a large charge and collects so much dust. It’s interesting that aircrafts build up so much static, but that certainly makes sense. That definitely seems scary in your case when it arced that much and with that ceiling fan chain. I’ll definitely touch my case chassis too so I don’t destroy all my parts.

 

[claes]

Couldn’t hurt, but top intake is probably worth trying, too. I’d test to see which works best for your components.

GPUs just blow heat everywhere. In a case, hot air will go wherever it’s pushed.

 

[Segundoh]

Couldn’t hurt, but top intake is probably worth trying, too. I’d test to see which works best for your components.

GPUs just blow heat everywhere. In a case, hot air will go wherever it’s pushed.

Oh okay that makes sense. I’ll test out both and see which one works best then. I suppose I’d get more positive pressure with the top fans since I can fit two 120 or 140mm fans at the top but only one 120mm fan on the bottom. Also, is there a way to calculate static pressure accounting for dust filters? It seems many fans list their static pressures, but I haven’t seen thag for dust filters. Does that mean it’s better for my intake fans to have more static pressure and for my exhaust fans to have less? If so, I’ll have to find the fans with the most static pressure for my intake ones and the fans with the least for my exhaust ones. Can it be bad to have excessive positive pressure too though?

Also, I was using a microfiber cloth to clean the inside of my PC but did not realize it’s not antistatic. Could that ESD damage my PC? I guess it’s probably fine if nothings happened yet, but I definitely won’t do that again in the future and just use an electric duster. Thanks!

 

[MarsM4N]

Thanks! That’s definitely a great option as well. That air circulation definitely sounds nice too. It’s good that it’s working well for eVape vapor; it should definitely work well for dust then. And nice it’s good that’s a reusable filter; I won’t really worry too much about the gas filter, so the filter itself is what matters. How long have you had this for? I’ll be sure to clean, put my PC on my desk, set up my fans properly, and use a dust filter. I’ll undervolt and under lock as well.

I have it in use now a little over 2 years. It's really going strong, no issues yet. Connected it to a smart socket, so I can switch it off with one button for the night.

I would give it a "Highly Recommended Award". Especially for the price. For some things IKEA is really hard to beat.

 

[claes]

Also, is there a way to calculate static pressure accounting for dust filters? It seems many fans list their static pressures, but I haven’t seen thag for dust filters.

Not that I’m aware of unfortunately

Does that mean it’s better for my intake fans to have more static pressure and for my exhaust fans to have less?

In an ideal world, sure, but I honestly wouldn’t worry about it too much. Most PC fans are optimized for PCs, so you should be fine, but if you’re really interested I’d learn about pq curves.

Fan P-Q curve

Each fan gets a characteristic curve, also known as P-Q curve, which indicates the correlation between fan air flow rate and static pressure. Fan’s air flow rate is total amount of air passing thro...

coolinghouse.com

If so, I’ll have to find the fans with the most static pressure for my intake ones and the fans with the least for my exhaust ones.

I wouldn’t put too much faith in fan specs, especially if they’re not from the same vendor. Without disclosure of the testing environment it is impossible to compare. I’d just buy something well reviewed from the likes of TPU/VSG for all applications. I’d recommend other sources but there are very few good ones and I honestly haven’t been keeping up.

Can it be bad to have excessive positive pressure too though?

Only if you’re recirculating air, but that’s pretty hard to achieve.

Also, I was using a microfiber cloth to clean the inside of my PC but did not realize it’s not antistatic. Could that ESD damage my PC? I guess it’s probably fine if nothings happened yet, but I definitely won’t do that again in the future and just use an electric duster. Thanks!

Idk

 

[Steevo]

After moving my office to another room in the house and our air handler runs 24/7 as well I haven't had to clean dust out of it yet. Keeping a closed room with only filtered air entering has been amazing.

 

[Segundoh]

Not that I’m aware of unfortunately

In an ideal world, sure, but I honestly wouldn’t worry about it too much. Most PC fans are optimized for PCs, so you should be fine, but if you’re really interested I’d learn about pq curves.

Fan P-Q curve

Each fan gets a characteristic curve, also known as P-Q curve, which indicates the correlation between fan air flow rate and static pressure. Fan’s air flow rate is total amount of air passing thro...

coolinghouse.com

I wouldn’t put too much faith in fan specs, especially if they’re not from the same vendor. Without disclosure of the testing environment it is impossible to compare. I’d just buy something well reviewed from the likes of TPU/VSG for all applications. I’d recommend other sources but there are very few good ones and I honestly haven’t been keeping up.

Only if you’re recirculating air, but that’s pretty hard to achieve.

Idk

Oh okay I see, so it’s impossible to figure out the effect of dust filters. And so I shouldn’t worry too much about static pressure, especially since fan specs probably aren’t very reliable anwyay as you said; it’s good I probably won’t be recirculating air anyway too. That’ll make it less complicated at least lol.

That PQ curve stuff is very interesting too. I learned a lot from that site alone, so I’ll read into that more. What is VSG? I can’t find that anywhere. I’ll look at TPU to see what the best fans are though. Also, I see, but I’m hoping the static is fine as long as I never do it again lol. Thanks!

After moving my office to another room in the house and our air handler runs 24/7 as well I haven't had to clean dust out of it yet. Keeping a closed room with only filtered air entering has been amazing.

Oh okay I see. If I ever get a bigger house, I’ll definitely do that and make it a closed room. How long has your PC been in that office?

 

[claes]

VSG is the resident fan reviewer at TPU

Static pressure definitely matters, by the way. I just meant that I wouldn’t bother with “airflow” fans in any other circumstance than exhaust, so there’s no point in going out of your way to find a single “airflow” fan to match your “static pressure” fans — I’d prefer they all be the same so the sound signature is the same. But that’s just my IMO, and @VSG might disagree with me (they often mention that a radiator, which they test with, is not the same as a front intake in their reviews of airflow fans), so idk

 

[lexluthermiester]

Ah I see, it makes sense that the front filter would cut the pressure.

Big time! I generally recommend people not use air filters.

Oh okay I see, so it’s impossible to figure out the effect of dust filters.

Sure it is, they don't do much but restrict airflow, get clogged and restrict airflow even more!

Instead, get some canned air or an airblower and plan on cleaning your system once a month or so.

 

[Segundoh]

VSG is the resident fan reviewer at TPU

Static pressure definitely matters, by the way. I just meant that I wouldn’t bother with “airflow” fans in any other circumstance than exhaust, so there’s no point in going out of your way to find a single “airflow” fan to match your “static pressure” fans — I’d prefer they all be the same so the sound signature is the same. But that’s just my IMO, and @VSG might disagree with me (they often mention that a radiator, which they test with, is not the same as a front intake in their reviews of airflow fans), so idk

Oh okay I’ll look at VSG’s reviews then. They seem very helpful so far.

And I see, so it’s not too important to match the airflow fan and static pressure although it is helpful for sure. That’s true, I didn’t consider sound signature to since they’ll all sound different and all. I’ll get more Fractal fans or just replace the Feactal fans with something else since they’re apparently not that good. I didn’t realize that front intake fans are different, so I’ll take that into consideration as well. Thank you!

Big time! I generally recommend people not use air filters.

Sure it is, they don't do much but restrict airflow, get clogged and restrict airflow even more!

Instead, get some canned air or an airblower and plan on cleaning your system once a month or so.

I’ll be sure to take out my filters then. It makes sense that they’re more annoying to deal with and all since they do restrict airflow. Thank you!

 

[claes]

I generally agree with removing filters from a case, especially if it has a nice mesh panel like yours does, but you are inviting more dust without them, just fyi.

 

[Segundoh]

I generally agree with removing filters from a case, especially if it has a nice mesh panel like yours does, but you are inviting more dust without them, just fyi.

Oh okay it’s good to hear that mesh panel is better for airflow then. And that makes sense, so there’s some tradeoffs for that. I guess there’s tradeoffs sfor most things. Thanks!

 

[lexluthermiester]

Oh okay it’s good to hear that mesh panel is better for airflow then. And that makes sense, so there’s some tradeoffs for that. I guess there’s tradeoffs sfor most things. Thanks!

I'm going to Copy&Paste from another post I made with an updated listing;

Quote
You need a blower...
The following is the one I have;

https://www.amazon.com/Compressed-MECO-High-Pressure-Computer-Keyboard/dp/B082XR3987

However, these are good models too;

https://www.amazon.com/Dusters-Electric-Electronics-Environmental-Alternative/dp/B0BB6ZZ66B

https://www.amazon.com/XPOWER-Inflating-Detailing-Performance-Eco-Friendly/dp/B086WRHRSJ

Something similar to one of these, used once a month, will work wonders.

 

[Shrek]

Although I have never had a problem, I worry about electrostatic discharge when used on electronics.