• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Is GTX 480 / Fermi a game changer for you?

Is GTX 480 / Fermi a game changer for you?

  • Yes, competition is great for the customer

    Votes: 1,470 9.7%
  • I can't pick a clear winner

    Votes: 448 2.9%
  • I got tired of waiting and bought an ATI card

    Votes: 1,940 12.8%
  • Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me

    Votes: 7,651 50.3%
  • I'm happy with what I have

    Votes: 2,227 14.7%
  • I'm going to buy one

    Votes: 744 4.9%
  • Yes, it's the better card

    Votes: 720 4.7%

  • Total voters
    15,200
  • Poll closed .
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
300 (0.08/day)
Likes
31
Location
Ambugaton
Processor Intel Skylake i5 6500 3.2 Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3p
Cooling Stock Intel
Memory HyperX Fury Black 32GB DDR4 2400Mhz CL15 1.2v
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 G1 8GB GDDR5 256bit
Storage ADATA Premier Pro 240GB & NAS - 4Tb Raid 1
Display(s) 22" Dell 2209WA A02 E-IPS
Case Cooler Master CM Silencio 452
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC /w Microlab Solo 6C Speakers
Power Supply Seasonic M12II-620 EVO Bronze 620W
Software Windows 10 x64
#51
I know that constantly waiting for the next big thing wont lead anywhere, especially with video cards that get a new cycle every 6 months or so. But I DO think that waiting for 2nd gen DirectX 11 may not be a bad idea if you think about it.

A funny parallel to the automotive industry, and I'm sure it was used before but with this generation of video cards it applies.. ATi the japanese supercars vs the nVidia gas guzzling american muscle cars...

Edit:
Power Consumption/Heat aside and coming from an ATi user you people DO see that from all the reviews the Fermi is the DX11 king...right?
something that in the long run is quite relevant especially if ATi/AMD wont grasp the same level of parallelization/modularity by the time 2nd gen DX11 cards are out. I keep my fingers crossed for that one. I honestly hope neither ATi or nVidia get the upper hand for too long from now on.

Not to long ago I heard you guys bicker about how nVidia had no DX11 and gddr5 and so on and so forth. Well now that Fermi (seems) to have achieved in it's goal to dominate next gen techs like tessellation and you STILL bash it around a bit... remember when the 8800 Ultra came out it's pwr consumption/temps?

On the other hand I'm a bit uneasy myself thinking about buying a card that'd add up to (if not above) 50% of the power consumption of the entire PC.
 
Last edited:

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
14,909 (3.43/day)
Likes
5,425
System Name A dancer in your disco of fire
Processor i3 4130 3.4Ghz
Motherboard MSI B85M-E45
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Memory 4 x 4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1400Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Crucial BX100 120GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case AeroCool DS Cube White
Power Supply Cooler Master G550M
Mouse Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Keyboard Dell SK-3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
#52
I'm quite happy with what I've got.

With that said, I'm still eager to see this in CUDA action, and under some heavy overclocking with pots and whatnot. ;)
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
129 (0.03/day)
Likes
10
#53
not to mention how much we can overclock 58xx to ghz, for nvidia the drivers for new antialiasing techniques has improve by alot. If ati manage to pull good drivers off anytime soon (ie new antialiasing techniques), fermi will going to drop price sooner or later anyway.
Either way, buying a new card is now just about prices now; unless research how far you could mod clock on the card :roll:.
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (2.13/day)
Likes
1,269
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
#54
Definitely not a game changer, it doesn't offer a significant performance boost over the 5 series, while adding more heat, power consumption and price. Keep in mind though, this could all change with the drivers, it's still to early to make a call on these cards since there still in a very premature state. For those with a 5 series card, have nothing to worry about right now, but as the drivers improve, that could change. I may get a Fermi later on.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
9,767 (2.95/day)
Likes
1,779
Location
Suffolk/Essex, England
System Name Joseph's Laptop Clevo P771ZM
Processor 4970k @4/4.4ghz
Motherboard *shrugs*
Cooling About 2 kilos of copper fins and pipes.
Memory 2x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX 970m 6gb
Storage 500gb Msata SSD 2x 2TB storage drives
Display(s) Built in
Power Supply 300w power brick
Mouse Steam controller
Software Windows ten
#55
Power Consumption/Heat aside and coming from an ATi user you people DO see that from all the reviews the Fermi is the DX11 king...right?


.

Guess you've not been looking around the net, the 5870 may aswell be tickling the 480s balls its so close behind it in FPS on the new AVP under direct x11.

It depends on game/bench mark etc.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
241 (0.06/day)
Likes
24
System Name Home
Processor Q6600 @ 3300
Motherboard Gigabyte p31 ds3l
Cooling TRUE Intel Edition
Memory 4 gb x 800 mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 560
Storage WD 1x250 gb Seagate 2x 1tb
Display(s) samsung T220
Case no name
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply chieftec 550w
Software Windows 7 64
#56
not to mention how much we can overclock 58xx to ghz, for nvidia the drivers for new antialiasing techniques has improve by alot. If ati manage to pull good drivers off anytime soon (ie new antialiasing techniques), fermi will going to drop price sooner or later anyway.
Either way, buying a new card is now just about prices now; unless research how far you could mod clock on the card :roll:.
Really ? antialiasing ? how many people play with 32xAA ? even 8XAA is overkill.
Antialiasing is a little dirty trick to fool some people into buying , like the memory , here you go a GTS250 with 2 gb of ram , wow , it must be good , and DX12 with gold plated stickers that imrprove perf. and productivity , it doesn't even has to make sense .
Or , CUDA to bring you the most powerfull computing shit you ever seen, it will blow your head and paint the walls with your brains in real time and with real world physics , translate the bullshit , Cuda means some video/photo editing software will be accelerated to a very limited degree ( encoding with some limitations and problems that might discourage proffesionals to use it and some effects rendered ) and physx - some usually bad games with exagerated physics effects .
With Ati being adopted so widely i think developers will think twice before accepting Nvidia's help.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
436 (0.13/day)
Likes
90
Location
Florida
System Name AMD RyZen PC
Processor AMD RyZen 1800x
Motherboard ASUS Crosshair VI Hero 370x
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 64GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR4 3200 MHz 14C x2
Video Card(s) AMD Radion VEGA 64 / 280x
Storage Seagate 3TB + 2TB + 2TB external + 256 Samsung M.2
Display(s) Samsung UN65KS8000F 4K, LG 4K 27UD69P-W
Case NZXT - H440
Audio Device(s) XI-FI 8.1
Power Supply EVGA 700W
Mouse Microsoft
Keyboard Microsoft
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/njplmm
#57
I've seen several posts questioning their review practices. But to those who are interested you can listen to how the fans sound here
What do you mean by this ?? i don't want to assume :)
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
436 (0.13/day)
Likes
90
Location
Florida
System Name AMD RyZen PC
Processor AMD RyZen 1800x
Motherboard ASUS Crosshair VI Hero 370x
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 64GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR4 3200 MHz 14C x2
Video Card(s) AMD Radion VEGA 64 / 280x
Storage Seagate 3TB + 2TB + 2TB external + 256 Samsung M.2
Display(s) Samsung UN65KS8000F 4K, LG 4K 27UD69P-W
Case NZXT - H440
Audio Device(s) XI-FI 8.1
Power Supply EVGA 700W
Mouse Microsoft
Keyboard Microsoft
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/njplmm
#58
Really ? antialiasing ? how many people play with 32xAA ? even 8XAA is overkill.
8x is a overkill for your 4850 and my 5770 but not for 5870 and 480. for a 5870, 8x is like running 2x in our card man.. :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
9,767 (2.95/day)
Likes
1,779
Location
Suffolk/Essex, England
System Name Joseph's Laptop Clevo P771ZM
Processor 4970k @4/4.4ghz
Motherboard *shrugs*
Cooling About 2 kilos of copper fins and pipes.
Memory 2x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX 970m 6gb
Storage 500gb Msata SSD 2x 2TB storage drives
Display(s) Built in
Power Supply 300w power brick
Mouse Steam controller
Software Windows ten
#59
8x is a overkill for your 4850 and my 5770 but not for 5870 and 480. its like running 2x in our card man.. :)

I think what he means to say is, you can't see the difference :laugh:
 

erocker

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
42,467 (10.10/day)
Likes
18,140
Processor i7 8700K
Motherboard Asus Maximus Hero X WiFi
Cooling Water
Memory 16GB G.Skill 3200Mhz CL14
Video Card(s) GTX 1080
Storage SSD's
Display(s) Nixeus EDG27
Case Thermaltake Core X5
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster Zx
Power Supply Corsair H1000i
Mouse Zowie EC1-B
#60
8X MSAA is perfect for me. I can easily tell a difference. Add super sampling and it looks even better.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
9,976 (2.24/day)
Likes
2,337
System Name MoFo 2
Processor AMD PhenomII 1100T @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling Swiftec 655 pump, Apogee GT,, MCR360mm Rad, 1/2 loop.
Memory 8GB DDR3-2133 @ 1900 8.9.9.24 1T
Video Card(s) HD7970 1250/1750
Storage Agility 3 SSD 6TB RAID 0 on RAID Card
Display(s) 46" 1080P Toshiba LCD
Case Rosewill R6A34-BK modded (thanks to MKmods)
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Power Supply 750W PC Power & Cooling modded (thanks to MKmods)
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
#61
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
212 (0.07/day)
Likes
9
Processor Athlon II X$ 635
Motherboard Asrock 880G Extreme3
Memory A-Data 2*2GB 1333 CAS8
Video Card(s) HD 4250
Storage WD Green 640
Power Supply Nexus RX5300
#62
Imagine GTX480 in the summer , you have to keep the AC on full speed just so the video card doesn't burn.
Imagine GTX480 in a closed case with not so good ventilation and after 1 year of dust build up , and in the summer :D.
Can i speculate that most GTX480's will end up RMA ?
Now about perf. , it's no denying it's faster than HD5870 but not enough to really matter , it consumes about 100-120W more , it's very very hot to the point of OMG it might ignite the case , it's loud but some people might not care about this , it has a much higher price.
To imagine how high the price is for some country's , the card leaves asus/gigabyte/xfx and it's ready to be shiped to xxx country , that country has some customs taxes for IT/Tehnology stuff , when it gets in stores another tax is applied ( VAT ) , after these taxes the reseler adds his price too , Romania's price for GTX480 is 800$ or 600 euros , HD5870 price is 480$ or 362 euros, WHO THE FUC... IS CRAZY TO PAY SO MUCH FOR SO LITTLE ?
What made Nvidia rich is not GPU computing , it's the gamers who spread the word Nvidia is great and convinced other people to buy Nvidia , so what is Nvidia doing now ? GPU computing ? accelerating encoding and some photo/video editing software ? ati does this too and it doesn't really matter much , most of us just play games , watch movies and surf the net on the computer , we are not professionals to need this
The Nvidia plan now is let's get some game developers to sign our TWIMTBP and force Physx , crank up some absurd need of tesselation to the point Ati hardware will suffer and force the developers to avoid contact with Ati for optimizations.
Until they deliver some good games that meet the above requirements i don't see anybody giving a shi.. about GTX480 , so start scheming Nvidia if you want to make a sale.
Exactly,and there's a even bigger turn off
For a bit more than a single a GTX480 you can buy 2 MSI R5850 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127500&cm_re=5850-_-14-127-500-_-Product (or @ home http://www.emag.ro/placi_video/plac...0-1024mb-ddr5-256bit-pci-e--pR5850TwinFrozrII) and clock them to 1050,frequency at wich a single should beat a 480 in most titles
As for a GTX495...even if they cherry pick the chips it'll have a TDP of 380W :twitch: and will need a Norse God not to die in the summer
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,978 (2.25/day)
Likes
3,928
Location
Manchester, NH
System Name Working on it ;)
Processor I7-4790K
Motherboard MSI Z97 U3 Plus
Cooling Be Quiet Pure Rock Air
Memory 16GB 4x4 G.Skill CAS9 2133 Sniper
Video Card(s) Power Color RD Vega 64 Reference
Storage Samsung EVO 500GB / 8 Different WDs / NAS with 2x2Tb WD Black
Display(s) 34" LG 34CB88-P 21:9 Curved UltraWide QHD (3440*1440)
Case Rosewill Challenger
Audio Device(s) Onboard + HD HDMI
Power Supply Corsair HX750 (love it)
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G710 Blue / G610 Orion Red
Software Win 7 Pro
#63
Those poll choices are rather subjective, but isn't everything? :)

Lets see where the prices lie in a few months and if any other apparent pre-release issues have been ironed out. I'll decide then, not now. However, since I already spent $400 on a 5870, I'm not likely to budge! :laugh:
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.89/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#64
Really ? antialiasing ? how many people play with 32xAA ? even 8XAA is overkill.
Antialiasing is a little dirty trick to fool some people into buying , like the memory , here you go a GTS250 with 2 gb of ram , wow , it must be good , and DX12 with gold plated stickers that imrprove perf. and productivity , it doesn't even has to make sense .
Or , CUDA to bring you the most powerfull computing shit you ever seen, it will blow your head and paint the walls with your brains in real time and with real world physics , translate the bullshit , Cuda means some video/photo editing software will be accelerated to a very limited degree ( encoding with some limitations and problems that might discourage proffesionals to use it and some effects rendered ) and physx - some usually bad games with exagerated physics effects .
With Ati being adopted so widely i think developers will think twice before accepting Nvidia's help.
You do realize that nVidia still has the largest market share, right?
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
9,976 (2.24/day)
Likes
2,337
System Name MoFo 2
Processor AMD PhenomII 1100T @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair IV
Cooling Swiftec 655 pump, Apogee GT,, MCR360mm Rad, 1/2 loop.
Memory 8GB DDR3-2133 @ 1900 8.9.9.24 1T
Video Card(s) HD7970 1250/1750
Storage Agility 3 SSD 6TB RAID 0 on RAID Card
Display(s) 46" 1080P Toshiba LCD
Case Rosewill R6A34-BK modded (thanks to MKmods)
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Power Supply 750W PC Power & Cooling modded (thanks to MKmods)
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
#65
You do realize that nVidia still has the largest market share, right?
Of DX11 cards? Really? They did have readily available inventory. :toast:
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.89/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#66
Of DX11 cards? Really? They did have readily available inventory. :toast:
No, of cards period. DX11 doesn't matter right now, as that user base is still relatively small. DX9 and DX10 are still the most relevant APIs. Devs will still accept nv help because they have the larger user base. That's the point I'm trying to make.
 

Dunceiam

New Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
3 (0.00/day)
Likes
3
#67
Really ? antialiasing ? how many people play with 32xAA ? even 8XAA is overkill.
Antialiasing is a little dirty trick to fool some people into buying , like the memory , here you go a GTS250 with 2 gb of ram , wow , it must be good , and DX12 with gold plated stickers that imrprove perf. and productivity , it doesn't even has to make sense .
Or , CUDA to bring you the most powerfull computing shit you ever seen, it will blow your head and paint the walls with your brains in real time and with real world physics , translate the bullshit , Cuda means some video/photo editing software will be accelerated to a very limited degree ( encoding with some limitations and problems that might discourage proffesionals to use it and some effects rendered ) and physx - some usually bad games with exagerated physics effects .
With Ati being adopted so widely i think developers will think twice before accepting Nvidia's help.
I actually just registered on these forums to respond to this post, the ignorance annoyed me that much.

Antialiasing is a little dirty trick to fool some people into buying , like the memory , here you go a GTS250 with 2 gb of ram , wow , it must be good , and DX12 with gold plated stickers that imrprove perf. and productivity , it doesn't even has to make sense .
Anti-Aliasing makes a huge difference, and by no means is a 'dirty trick'. Just take this image as an example (the image is 8xAA). You do notice those jagged edges right? What's the purpose of having incredibly graphically intense games, but having jagged edges everywhere?

And regarding the graphics card's onboard memory - every millisecond a graphics card has to produce 2,073,600 pixels for a 1080p image, once you raise this to 2560x1600, that number becomes 4,096,000 pixels. Say you're gaming at 60fps, every second 245,760,000 pixels. Each one of which needs to be stored on the card's RAM, and the queue of upcoming commands needs to be stored on the onboard RAM. You may not be gaming on a 24"-30", but others are, and require the extra memory. Also consider CUDA - to take a wild example, video editing. Processing video requires massive amounts of RAM and computing power, a 1GB card would be much slower than an equivalent 2GB card when it comes to video rendering. So no, it's not a damned marketing gimmick, it's an extremely useful trait of the newer graphics cards.

Or , CUDA to bring you the most powerfull computing shit you ever seen, it will blow your head and paint the walls with your brains in real time and with real world physics , translate the bullshit , Cuda means some video/photo editing software will be accelerated to a very limited degree ( encoding with some limitations and problems that might discourage proffesionals to use it and some effects rendered )
My God, have you even used CUDA in your lifetime? CUDA is for massively parallel problems (Simplifying everything down, each one of the GPU's shader cores is equivalent to a CPU's 'core'. Essentially meaning the GPU has hundreds of low power cores - allowing it to do a repetitious task hundreds of times faster than a CPU) CUDA isn't even for physics, hell, CUDA isn't even on the graphics card. CUDA is an architecture allowing programmers to program FOR the GPU.

CUDA (Or more commonly known as GPGPU computing) is the absolute future, no question about it. By no means does it accelerate only to a 'limited degree', it speeds things up by massive magnitudes.

An example:
Virus ion placement: 110 CPU-hours (QX6700)
Same calculation now takes 1.35 GPU-hours (8800GTX)
27 minutes if three GPUs are used concurrently

This is straight from Dr. Dobbs CUDA article:

GeForce 8800GTX w/ CUDA 1.1, Driver 169.09
Speedup vs. Intel QX6700 CPU

Fluorescence microphotolysis - 12x
Pairlist calculation - 10x to 11x
Pairlist update - 5x to 15x
N-body cutoff force calculations - 10x to 20x
Cutoff electron density sum - 15x to 23x
Cutoff potential summation - 12x to 21x
Direct Coulomb summation - 44x

Keep in mind, that's on an 8800GTX versus a QX6700, the GTX480 is much more powerful than the 8800, and so expect those numbers to double.

and physx - some usually bad games with exagerated physics effects .
Did you just call Batman: Arkhams Asylum a bad game? That's just pure nonsense.

I personally believe you need to get informed, and stop being a damned fanboy.

(And to subdue the inevitable reply of, "You're just an Nvidia fanboy." I'll say it now, I've only owned ATI, my first card was a 4850, then a 4870, than a 4870x2.)

Anyway, I apologize for my long post and thread hijacking, I just couldn't sit back and let the misinformed preach their ludicrous beliefs without some combat.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.89/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#68
Wow. Excellent post. Welcome to the forums.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
241 (0.06/day)
Likes
24
System Name Home
Processor Q6600 @ 3300
Motherboard Gigabyte p31 ds3l
Cooling TRUE Intel Edition
Memory 4 gb x 800 mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 560
Storage WD 1x250 gb Seagate 2x 1tb
Display(s) samsung T220
Case no name
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply chieftec 550w
Software Windows 7 64
#69
No, of cards period. DX11 doesn't matter right now, as that user base is still relatively small. DX9 and DX10 are still the most relevant APIs. Devs will still accept nv help because they have the larger user base. That's the point I'm trying to make.
It depends how big the Nvidia's market share is , if it's 90% of discrete cards then Ati is fuc.ked , developers will play how Nvidia wants , if it's 50.1% then developers will think twice before accepting the devils contract , i mean they give up almost half the market.
Also you have to consider that most people don't buy games , they use pirated copy's , the ones who don't buy games don't really buy high end video cards , so if a game developer makes some resarch discovers that there is a big chance those people that bought HD5850 , HD5870 , HD5970 are likely to buy a game.
But why talk with no numbers , let's take valve hardware survey :
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
No matter the graphic card (dx8,9,10,11 ):
Nvidia 61.88% and Ati 30.92%
Now if we talk about recent cards
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
this is not sorted for easy view but read everything and you get the picture , Nvidia still has a big part of the market share but with weak cards , 8600 is considered a DX10 GPU but i doubt it can run any recent game with full details , or 8800 cards , come on , most 8800 cards are probably 8800GT or GTS320/640 , good cards but getting a bit old now and not suited for future games , also 9600 cards , do you see metro 2033 running on 9600GT with full details ?
On the other hand we see a good percentage of 4800 cards , i bet most of them are 4850 wich are quite good and also a good deal of 4870 cards can be in that percentage , comparing these cards to 8800 , 8600 and 9600 cards from Nvidia you get the picture how the market looks for developers who want some eye cadny in their games.
I overlooked 9800 cards wich are good so this is good for Nvidia but still not enough for smart developers to throw away their work just so Nvidia gets more sales.
Take a look at GTX200 series , not very succesfull generation against 4800 from what i see in those charts.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (5.89/day)
Likes
3,682
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
#70
Recent card sales don't matter. Power of the card does not matter. All that matters is installed user base. nVidia has a significantly higher installed user base. The majority of all gamers are still using DX9 and DX10 only capable systems, so devs still have to program for them. This makes most of those lower end cards still entirely relevant. Nobody ever said all gamers max settings. In fact, quite the opposite is true, most gamers are just happy to run the games period. Thus, devs are still going to take advantage of nVidia's free help whenever they can.

You seem to be forgetting this is a heavy duty enthusiast site. We DO NOT represent the majority of PC gamers.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
9,767 (2.95/day)
Likes
1,779
Location
Suffolk/Essex, England
System Name Joseph's Laptop Clevo P771ZM
Processor 4970k @4/4.4ghz
Motherboard *shrugs*
Cooling About 2 kilos of copper fins and pipes.
Memory 2x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX 970m 6gb
Storage 500gb Msata SSD 2x 2TB storage drives
Display(s) Built in
Power Supply 300w power brick
Mouse Steam controller
Software Windows ten
#71
WAHH!?

God damn where are you getting this info from Leonard, I'm pretty certain more people still actually buy their games.

Look at the sales of Modern warfare 2 for example.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
2,184 (0.63/day)
Likes
1,027
Location
Minnesota, USA
System Name TIGRAlpha4
Processor i5 750 @ 3.6GHz
Motherboard ASRock P55 Deluxe
Cooling S1283 + FFB1212VHE
Memory 16GB DDR3 1800, 7-8-7-24
Video Card(s) 560 Ti
Storage 128GB Kingston SSD + 16TB RAID 6
Display(s) Dell P1130 + Samsung 275T
Case Antec Twelve Hundred
Power Supply Silverstone OP1000-E
#72
I voted "Power/Heat/Noise is important, no Fermi for me" and it seems that most other members feel the same way. Also, I'm quite happy with what I have, for now, given the amount of gaming I do at the moment, the resolution I play at and the demands my games place on my hardware.
+1

nVidia is probably going to be in a good position with their Fermi-based offerings in a year, but right now, I am simply disappointed.

Curious to see Folding@home PPD though.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
241 (0.06/day)
Likes
24
System Name Home
Processor Q6600 @ 3300
Motherboard Gigabyte p31 ds3l
Cooling TRUE Intel Edition
Memory 4 gb x 800 mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 560
Storage WD 1x250 gb Seagate 2x 1tb
Display(s) samsung T220
Case no name
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply chieftec 550w
Software Windows 7 64
#73
Recent card sales don't matter. Power of the card does not matter. All that matters is installed user base. nVidia has a significantly higher installed user base. The majority of all gamers are still using DX9 and DX10 only capable systems, so devs still have to program for them. This makes most of those lower end cards still entirely relevant. Nobody ever said all gamers max settings. In fact, quite the opposite is true, most gamers are just happy to run the games period. Thus, devs are still going to take advantage of nVidia's free help whenever they can.

You seem to be forgetting this is a heavy duty enthusiast site. We DO NOT represent the majority of PC gamers.
I'm talking about some games that accept physx and Nvidia's whole deal to punish Ati , if you look at succesfull games that really make money they have nothing to do with physx , they make the game for everyone to enjoy with relative average/good hardware , examples :
WOW , warhammer 2 , BC2 , dragon age origins , TF2 , GTA4 , COD MW2 , i don't see physx in these games or Ati being excluded or running the game badly compared to Nvidia , these are smart developers who don't give a fu.ck about Nvidia's agenda.
On the other hand we have some games that pass trough our computers very briefly like crysis , crysis warhead , cyostasis , metro 2033 , these games have absurd high requirements for their respective times of launch and don't really make money like COD MW2 or BC2 , i could call them tech demo's but they are not that.
I'm talking about developers who made these games that will think twice before accepting Nvidia's help , how much money do they get from Nvidia to lose a lot of potential customers (ati) who has the hardware to run the game if properly optimized ?
Only one game was succesfull that had physx too , Batman , i bet you they lost some Ati costumers because they included physx.
I see the present mainstream something in the range of HD4870/HD4890/5770/GTX260/GTX275/GTX285 , who do you think has more market share here ? in the high end i see 5850/5870/5970/GTX295 and that's it , GTX480 isn't even stores and i dont think it will catch up to anything , so if Ati has more market share in the area where more perf. is available so details can be activated and more eye candy can be done , why they would favor Nvidia ?
Also , Nvidia doesn't give free help , only stupid developers can understand this as free , they come "helping" turning an easy on hardware game into a resource hungry game that needs a better graphic card from costumers and this makes sales bad for the developer , also they force them to not cooperate with Ati , don't give me statemens from Nvidia now , they are so credibile like the charts they give to the press , again the dev. loses potential buyers , look at metro 2033 requirements
Recommended:

Any Quad Core or 3.0+ GHz Dual Core CPU

DirectX 10 compliant graphics card (GeForce GTX 260 and above)

2GB RAM

and the optimum :D
Optimum:

Core i7 CPU

NVIDIA DirectX 11 compliant graphics card (GeForce GTX 480 and 470)

As much RAM as possible (8GB+)

Fast HDD or SSD

Do you think these people will make money after this game ? do you think the fellow with 8800 will go buy this game ? or the fellow with the 9600GT ? even the one with GTX260 will have a hard time convincing himself to buy this game after what he read on the internet.
It's a game that shines only when you activate all the eye candy , sets the mood better , it's not a great gameplay game like COD MW2 or BC2.
Not all Nvidia deals can be so hurtfull to costumers who have Ati cards , some games accept Nvidia's help on their terms like help us and will put your logo there and that's it , those are few and can deal like this because they have a good game on their hands.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
241 (0.06/day)
Likes
24
System Name Home
Processor Q6600 @ 3300
Motherboard Gigabyte p31 ds3l
Cooling TRUE Intel Edition
Memory 4 gb x 800 mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 560
Storage WD 1x250 gb Seagate 2x 1tb
Display(s) samsung T220
Case no name
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply chieftec 550w
Software Windows 7 64
#74
I actually just registered on these forums to respond to this post, the ignorance annoyed me that much.



Anti-Aliasing makes a huge difference, and by no means is a 'dirty trick'. Just take this image as an example (the image is 8xAA). You do notice those jagged edges right? What's the purpose of having incredibly graphically intense games, but having jagged edges everywhere?

And regarding the graphics card's onboard memory - every millisecond a graphics card has to produce 2,073,600 pixels for a 1080p image, once you raise this to 2560x1600, that number becomes 4,096,000 pixels. Say you're gaming at 60fps, every second 245,760,000 pixels. Each one of which needs to be stored on the card's RAM, and the queue of upcoming commands needs to be stored on the onboard RAM. You may not be gaming on a 24"-30", but others are, and require the extra memory. Also consider CUDA - to take a wild example, video editing. Processing video requires massive amounts of RAM and computing power, a 1GB card would be much slower than an equivalent 2GB card when it comes to video rendering. So no, it's not a damned marketing gimmick, it's an extremely useful trait of the newer graphics cards.



My God, have you even used CUDA in your lifetime? CUDA is for massively parallel problems (Simplifying everything down, each one of the GPU's shader cores is equivalent to a CPU's 'core'. Essentially meaning the GPU has hundreds of low power cores - allowing it to do a repetitious task hundreds of times faster than a CPU) CUDA isn't even for physics, hell, CUDA isn't even on the graphics card. CUDA is an architecture allowing programmers to program FOR the GPU.

CUDA (Or more commonly known as GPGPU computing) is the absolute future, no question about it. By no means does it accelerate only to a 'limited degree', it speeds things up by massive magnitudes.

An example:
Virus ion placement: 110 CPU-hours (QX6700)
Same calculation now takes 1.35 GPU-hours (8800GTX)
27 minutes if three GPUs are used concurrently

This is straight from Dr. Dobbs CUDA article:

GeForce 8800GTX w/ CUDA 1.1, Driver 169.09
Speedup vs. Intel QX6700 CPU

Fluorescence microphotolysis - 12x
Pairlist calculation - 10x to 11x
Pairlist update - 5x to 15x
N-body cutoff force calculations - 10x to 20x
Cutoff electron density sum - 15x to 23x
Cutoff potential summation - 12x to 21x
Direct Coulomb summation - 44x

Keep in mind, that's on an 8800GTX versus a QX6700, the GTX480 is much more powerful than the 8800, and so expect those numbers to double.



Did you just call Batman: Arkhams Asylum a bad game? That's just pure nonsense.

I personally believe you need to get informed, and stop being a damned fanboy.

(And to subdue the inevitable reply of, "You're just an Nvidia fanboy." I'll say it now, I've only owned ATI, my first card was a 4850, then a 4870, than a 4870x2.)

Anyway, I apologize for my long post and thread hijacking, I just couldn't sit back and let the misinformed preach their ludicrous beliefs without some combat.
I missed this post , i'm gonna answer the Nvidia fanboy while it's best to ignore them i chose to not.
Anti-Aliasing makes a huge difference, and by no means is a 'dirty trick'.
It is a dirty trick when you come up with some absrud 32XAA , it's not usable in games that put up some decent graphics , i wanna see you run crysis or recent metro with 32XAA , or even Batman that you mentioned , ohh you can't ? but why ? so in practice that feature won't be touched by most users , when i said 8XAA is overkill it was meant it doesn't make such a massive differnce , sure you can see it but you are playing the game or do you stare at jagged lines ? in games that pack some action you rarerly stop to look at lines , it's stupid and it's an argument a fanboy would give , look , Nvidia can do 100XAA , better than Ati , me stupid fanboy gonna take whatever bullshit Nvidia gives me.
And regarding the graphics card's onboard memory - every millisecond a graphics card has to produce 2,073,600 pixels for .
bla bla bla
Dear fanboy , GTS250 is a weak GPU who can't possible use 2 gb of memory , it can be helpfull for a HD5970 or a GTX480 but not for a GTS250 , if you don't understand this then the disscution ends here.
Also , for video edititing you don't require the memory to be on the video card , system memory is fine too , it's not like you have to run the video at 60 fps minimum and you need the data to be on the video cards memory so now swap , video content is easy compared to what games need from a video card and the speed to process it.
It's mindblowing what you say there , obviuosly you didn't touched video editing to see how cuda means nothing , actually Ati has a FREE plugin that speeds up adobe premiere and encodes with the gpu but it needs the whole system to be AMD , so praise Nvidia for not giving the same.
CUDA (Or more commonly known as GPGPU computing) is the absolute future, no question about it. By no means does it accelerate only to a 'limited degree', it speeds things up by massive magnitudes.

An example:
Virus ion placement: 110 CPU-hours .
bla bla bla
Why do i care for those figures ? do every Nvidia fanboy split the atom ? research the cure for cancer ? build rockets ? sure sure , you have a rocket in your computer but you barelly run a game , i dont care how many billions operations Nvidia can do , why can't GTX480 beat HD5970 in games ?




Wile E , are you registering with another name so you can flame me ?
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
6,654 (2.25/day)
Likes
5,903
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
System Name New Ho'Ryzen
Processor Ryzen 1700X @ 3.82Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling TR Le Grand Macho & custom GPU loop
Memory 16Gb G.Skill 3200 RGB
Video Card(s) GTX1080ti (Heatkiller WB) @ 2Ghz core/1.5(12)Ghz mem
Storage Samsumg 960 Pro m2. 512Gb
Display(s) Dell Ultrasharp 27" (2560x1440)
Case Lian Li PC-V33WX
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TItanium 850
Software W10
Benchmark Scores Look, it's a Ryzen on air........ What's the point?
#75
I sense great anger in this thread....

Does CUDA not actually stand for 'Compute Unified Device Architecture'? which really means it's a design that is formatively conceived to do 'everything', i.e. it is a single processor which contains the required hard and software to 'multi-task' more effectively?

And GPGPU is balls as a title as it stands for 'General Purpose Graphics Processing Unit'. Yawn.

And this is why Fermi is the let down it is. It was conceived to do 'everything' which given the 40nm process it's manufatcured on - it just can't do it properly. Jen S. Huang (or whatever) wanted to develop Fermi as a HPC component first and a GFX unit second. One card with two purposes - brave idea but not yet possible effectively.

It will happen but 'when' is the question and will ATI (who do high end cards too) get there first? What will Northern Islands hold in store? Ooh, I can't wait for all the fighting to start again in 2011. Oh, hold on, people are still fighting.

lol.