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Is it normal...

Some_dude

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for you to be able to set an undervolt setting in the BIOS but not CPU clock speeds in any software both throttlestop and XTU? When I first got this laptop I must of been lucky and never downloaded the update that injected the microcode locking out software that can adjust CPU speeds....but thing is I'd rather not run my CPU at 96C for hours on end. Speed shift does nothing...and Dragon Centers silent setting still gets me throttling temps when I look in hwinfo.

GE66 Raider
10750H CPU
2070S
32 gb ram
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
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Many recent MSI laptops allow you to unlock CPU voltage control in the BIOS.


Speed shift does nothing
Speed Shift works for everyone else. Does ThrottleStop show SST in green on the main screen? If it does, Speed Shift is enabled and you can lower the Speed Shift Max variable in the TPL window to control your maximum CPU speed. Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop, the main window and the TPL window if you are having problems.
 

Some_dude

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Thank you thank you thank you!!! The missing piece was enabling the multiplier in TPL! But what does the number in the main screen do? seems my cpu is locked to what my maximum setting is in TPL.
 

unclewebb

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But what does the number in the main screen do?
The Speed Shift number on the main screen is the Energy Performance Preference (EPP) value. The number in the TPL window allows you to control the maximum multiplier. The EPP value on the main screen controls Speed Shift behavior. If you set EPP to 0, the CPU will run at maximum speed regardless of load. A setting of 80 is a good compromise for laptops so the CPU slows down when lightly loaded but speeds up to full speed when needed. The max EPP setting is 255 which will have your computer running like a slug.

The FIVR monitoring table will show you what EPP value the CPU is using in real time.

For most computers running Windows 10, if you do not check the Speed Shift EPP value, Windows will control the EPP value. The Windows High Performance power plan should set EPP to 0 automatically. If you switch to the Windows Balanced power plan, you should see a slider in the system tray that you can adjust back and forth. This will change the EPP value. Monitor what Windows does by looking at the EPP value in the FIVR table. Different manufacturers use different default values. I recommend letting Windows control this if it can do an appropriate job. No use having Windows and ThrottleStop writing different EPP values to the same CPU register. No fighting.
 

Some_dude

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Ok it was working for a time but now it's like I'm not sure anything is happening (hwinfo shows almost full turbo boosted speeds) whereas earlier it would lock into place with whatever value I chose for the maximum speed shift in miscellaneous.
 

unclewebb

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If you have a question, post some pictures of ThrottleStop so I can see how you have the program setup. Pictures of the main screen, the TPL window and the FIVR window will help me solve your problem.

When your computer is idle with only ThrottleStop open on the desktop, what does it report for C0%? Most users have a pile of background tasks running 24/7 and then are surprised to find out that their CPU never idles down. If a CPU has a task to perform, there is no reason for it to idle down. The purpose of Speed Shift Technology is to get the CPU up to maximum speed as fast as possible. This allows the background tasks to processed quickly. When done, the CPU can return and spend more time in the low power C7 state.

When idle, are your cores spending 99% of the time in C7?



HWiNFO shows
HWiNFO does not accurately track the CPU multiplier when Speed Shift is enabled. The multiplier is changing hundreds of times a second. ThrottleStop uses high performance timers within the CPU and a monitoring method recommended by Intel to accurately measure what each thread is doing. HWiNFO does not use this method. It shows every core sitting peacefully at 800 MHz while all cores are set to the minimum VID voltage.

Intel CPUs are way more dynamic than that when Speed Shift is enabled.

1614484704040.png
 

Some_dude

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Yes all my cores are operating under C7 only primarily.....as for my issue it seemed related to what my dragon center was set at....at balanced it seems to show my cores at precisely the maximum multiplier set in throttlestop. Extreme performance cranked them up to max regardless of whatever I set in throttlestop...so as I figured it was settings overwriting one another.

ok problem is still persisting...basically the software is cranking my CPU to a high boost clock when it feels it needs to (and consequently throttling my CPU due to heat)...I an reluctant to completely remove all MSI software because it allows me to factory reset. So kinda at a loss....can't seem to lock throttlestop settings into place and have them take precedence over everything else.
 

Some_dude

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So this is my speed shift EPP value on the main throttlestop screen....I have it set to 120 yet in the second screen shot it's at 84 in FIVR.....basically I wanna find out what exactly is causing the tug of war between my throttlestop settings and windows....I play Insurgency Sandstorm and my throttlestop settings stay locked into place....but then I fire up Magic online and the CPU revs up to stock turbo boost levels.
 

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unclewebb

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Speed Shift EPP
The ThrottleStop Speed Shift EPP option is for older CPUs or older versions of Windows that were not Speed Shift aware. Some computers with 6th and 7th Gen CPUs do not have a Speed Shift option available in the BIOS. ThrottleStop allows Speed Shift to be enabled and controlled on older computers.

There is only one Speed Shift EPP register in the CPU. It is not a great idea for ThrottleStop to be writing one value to the EPP register and then Windows 10 immediately writing a different value to the same register. Sometimes ThrottleStop might win this fight. Other times, Windows 10 will win the fight for control of the CPU. Best not to have this fight at all.

Your screenshot shows that this is causing a problem so I would suggest not checking the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop. If you want Windows to control EPP, set your computer to the Windows Balanced power plan and then in the System Tray there should be a Windows power slider that can be used to adjust the Speed Shift EPP value.

If you want ThrottleStop to manage Speed Shift EPP, try using the Windows High Performance power plan and check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop. I have not done any recent testing. The Windows High Performance plan used to allow ThrottleStop to control the EPP setting without a big fight. Windows updates happen all the time so it is possible that this no longer works the way it used to work.

I just did a Windows Update and a BIOS update yesterday and this is what I get now.
The ThrottleStop Speed Shift EPP setting has zero control of the CPU speed. It runs at full speed regardless of load.
This used to work fine but not anymore.

1615617662067.png
 

Some_dude

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Just wish my TPL settings would stick....seems im constantly having to open the window and click ok to reapply the cpu clock speeds. It's weird though cause as I mentioned above I play insurgency sandstorm and the CPU speed looks like it's remaining the same the entire time but then I fire up something like call of duty cold war and it forces it to boost to default turbo boost levels. Nevermind....I guess I finally get it. Adjusting the slider at the bottom all the way to max performance locks in whatever speeds adjusted whether it be the stock turbo boost or whatever I set TPL as in throttlestop. Though I do think that when I unplug my PC....because it changes to that mode it goes back to the regular turbo boost.
 
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unclewebb

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when I unplug my PC
When you unplug your computer, Windows 10 will change the EPP value that the CPU is using. You can watch for this in the FIVR monitoring table. When the Windows slider is set to Best Performance on AC, that might be different compared to Best Performance when running on battery power.

If you are having problems, turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and go play a game for at least 15 minutes. When finished testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. The log will be in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach one to your next post so I can have a look.

Ignore the on screen MHz reported while you are in game. When Speed Shift is enabled, this data is not always accurate. That is why a log file is best. It can show tiny changes in performance that most monitoring software misses. It also records if there are any throttling issues. Exit HWiNFO while logging data with ThrottleStop. HWiNFO clears the throttling data out of the CPU before ThrottleStop has a chance to record it.

the CPU revs up to stock turbo boost levels.
When an Intel CPU is loaded, it is supposed to use full turbo boost. Some of what you are saying sounds like you want the CPU to do something that Intel did not design it to do.

just wish my TPL settings would stick
Are you still using Dragon Center? This software can change the turbo power limits to extremely low values and cause all sorts of problems. In the ThrottleStop TPL window, set the power limits and check the Lock option. This prevents other software like Dragon Center from screwing around with your turbo power limits. You also need to check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.
 
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