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Is it safe to pump 35w - 40w through a i7-8565U?

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I've been playing around with Throttlestop on my Dell Inspiron 7586 2-in-1 (Black Edition) and have gotten some very interesting results after "disabling and locking turbo power limit".
throttlestop-hi.jpg

That seems rather high for a chip I think is supposed to have a 25 watt upper limit on its package.
But the results are fairly impressive:
1587086468752.png


Darn thing is running faster than an i7-4770K. Question is, am I going to fry the chip if I keep this up? I've got a -80mV underclock on the CPU and cache, but have left the iGPU alone.
 

unclewebb

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Looks familiar. My 8550U is also a beast. :D



I call this Lenovo C930 the wolf in sheep's clothing. Most people have no idea how strong these can be made to run with the help of ThrottleStop.

Make sure you do not update your BIOS or you will likely lose CPU voltage control. A little bit of under volting can help keep these CPUs from going nuclear.

On par with a desktop 4790K when it is at default specs. Not bad at all.



If our 8th Gen low power U series CPUs ever blow up, there is always the new 10th Gen U series to look forward to.
Insane performance for a 15 Watt CPU.

 
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Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. Say for complete peace of mind I wanted to put a custom power limit of 25w or 30w. How would I go about that? The TPL screen seems the proper place to go, but honestly I don't know what values to put where.
 

unclewebb

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All Intel desktop and mobile CPUs are built using the same technology. Intel has not made any significant changes in years. No one would think twice about an Intel desktop CPU running at 30W or 40W. There is no reason to worry that their U series is somehow fragile. Intel suggests that OEMs use a 15 Watt long term limit for marketing purposes. It has nothing to do with what these CPUs are capable of running at day in, day out.

In the TPL window, typical default values for the PL1 - Turbo Boost Long Power limit is 15W and the PL2 - Turbo Boost Short Power Limit is 25W. Many OEMs completely ignore these suggestions. 25W for the Long limit and 44W for the Short limit are more common. Intel suggests that the turbo time limit be set to 28 seconds. If your CPU heats up too fast with a 44W limit, you can reduce the time limit so it spends less time at 44W before switching to the long term limit.

It is your computer. You can set all of these limits to whatever you like. The next version of ThrottleStop also allows a user to adjust the thermal throttling temperature to whatever they like. Intel says that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature". If you think this is too hot, go into the ThrottleStop Options window and you can set a PROCHOT Offset value of 10 and then your CPU will thermal throttle at 90°C instead of 100°C.

If this new feature sounds useful, exit ThrottleStop, download, unzip and copy the new and improved ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder.

 
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LOL, somehow I got 51w put in both the Long and Short Power Max. And a turbo time limit of 5120. Is that seconds or milliseconds? Anyway, I'm about to try an experiment with the short PL at 35w and the long PL at 25w, and the timer set to 24000.
 

unclewebb

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The timer is in seconds. 24 seconds is OK. 24000 seconds is not!
The CPU will usually ignore any settings that are completely out to lunch. Just cause ThrottleStop lets you do something does not mean that it is OK. Luckily the CPU has some smarts.
 
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Well the test worked in spite of "completely out to lunch" settings, lol. Cinebench R15 score dropped to 774 when the power limit was at 35w. I'll drop the timer to something sane (maybe 90 seconds) and see how that plays out in a longer benchmark (Cinebench R20.)
 

unclewebb

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Enjoy the performance that these CPUs are capable of. No need to limit them. If they ever get too hot, they will thermal throttle and slow down. All of the other limits are unnecessary. It was just an easy way for Intel to create different CPU models for different market segments. It allows Intel to create 15W mobile CPUs and 45W mobile CPUs and a whole lot of other CPUs all from the exact same hardware, coming down the same assembly line.

Thanks for sharing and have fun playing.

You are definitely killing the as delivered from Dell performance.
 
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This will probably come as a surprise to no one on this forum, but I found that gaming with the CPU running at nearly full-tilt just isn't a great idea. The CPU generates a lot of heat, which means that the GPU will throttle, especially if both chips share a single heatpipe. The easy fix is to just check the "Disable Turbo" button in the main screen of Throttlestop.

Well, it partially depends on the game. CPU bound games might not like you disabling turbo. But in The Outer Worlds, anyway, running both the CPU and GPU at full (or more than full) power doesn't work very well. It works better if the CPU is held back some and allowed to run cool, and let the cooling system soak up the extra heat from the GPU. I imagine that's especially true in an ultrabook where there's not much thermal headroom. Probably doesn't apply in a traditional bulky gaming laptop.

I guess I can control this with the Throttlestop profiles, or if I'm lazy just toggle the "Disable Turbo" setting manually.
 

unclewebb

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Disable Turbo
On mobile CPUs, that usually reduces performance way too much. You are better off creating a new ThrottleStop profile with reduced turbo ratio limits. This way you can reduce the amount of turbo boost without having to sacrifice it all.

The new ThrottleStop feature that lets you throttle based on any CPU temperature might be a good fix when gaming. If your GPU is not happy when the CPU goes beyond 85°C, you can easily go into the Options window and set PROCHOT Offset in ThrottleStop to 15. Your CPU will never go beyond 85°C (100°C - 15°C). This allows your CPU to run as fast as possible while still capping itself so the GPU does not get too hot in systems with a single heat pipe cooler.

still no "cure" for plundervolt
ThrottleStop will never have a cure for the disabling of voltage control due to plundervolt. It is the BIOS that is locking out CPU voltage control. That happens before ThrottleStop starts up.

For some Dell laptops, there is a fix. You can run the latest BIOS and still have access to under volting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fzv599
 
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Yes, as long as you're not overheating
 

unclewebb

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40 watts sustained
It depends on what laptop model you have. Many of these are locked to 15W by an embedded controller.

Run ThrottleStop and post a screenshot of the TPL window so I can see how you have your laptop setup.
 

google brained

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It depends on what laptop model you have. Many of these are locked to 15W by an embedded controller.

Run ThrottleStop and post a screenshot of the TPL window so I can see how you have your laptop setup.
here you go
 

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unclewebb

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Thanks for the pic. Can you run ThrottleStop 9.4? It has a new feature in the TPL window.

Download, unzip and copy ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder and over write the old version you are using.

No need to set the turbo time limit to 3.67 million seconds. That is an awfully long time and kind of pointless because the CPU will ignore that value anyhow. Just use the default 28 seconds for now.

TDP Level Control is locked so trying to set that to 2 is going to also be ignored by the CPU.

In the new version in the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock option. Run a simple benchmark and see if you get some power limit throttling. You can watch Limit Reasons as the benchmark is running. Does it show you are throttling at 15W or some other value?

 
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google brained

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Thanks for the pic. Can you run ThrottleStop 9.4? It has a new feature in the TPL window.

Download, unzip and copy ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder and over write the old version you are using.

No need to set the turbo time limit to 3.67 million seconds. That is an awfully long time and kind of pointless because the CPU will ignore that value anyhow. Just use the default 28 seconds for now.

TDP Level Control is locked so trying to set that to 2 is going to also be ignored by the CPU.

In the new version in the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock option. Run a simple benchmark and see if you get some power limit throttling. You can watch Limit Reasons as the benchmark is running. Does it show you are throttling at 15W or some other value?

i ran both cinebench r20, cinebench r23 and throttlestop's built in bench mark in all the cpu reaches 64 to 66 degrees sustained and power throttles at 15 watts after 28 secs during the first 28 secs it uses 39.8 watts and reaches 84 degrees
 

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Looks familiar. My 8550U is also a beast. :D



I call this Lenovo C930 the wolf in sheep's clothing. Most people have no idea how strong these can be made to run with the help of ThrottleStop.

Make sure you do not update your BIOS or you will likely lose CPU voltage control. A little bit of under volting can help keep these CPUs from going nuclear.

On par with a desktop 4790K when it is at default specs. Not bad at all.



If our 8th Gen low power U series CPUs ever blow up, there is always the new 10th Gen U series to look forward to.
Insane performance for a 15 Watt CPU.


Youd think a chip that is 4 gens ahead would be superior in performance.
 

unclewebb

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power throttles at 15 watts
Without seeing the TPL window while you are using ThrottleStop 9.4, I cannot say if there is any way to prevent long term power limit throttling at 15W. With some laptops you can prevent throttling at 15W but most laptops are locked down so you are limited to 15W.
 

google brained

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Without seeing the TPL window while you are using ThrottleStop 9.4, I cannot say if there is any way to prevent long term power limit throttling at 15W. With some laptops you can prevent throttling at 15W but most laptops are locked down so you are limited to 15W.
ok then just wait a min

Without seeing the TPL window while you are using ThrottleStop 9.4, I cannot say if there is any way to prevent long term power limit throttling at 15W. With some laptops you can prevent throttling at 15W but most laptops are locked down so you are limited to 15W.
here you go
 

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unclewebb

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The MMIO PL1 power limit is set to 15W long term. Check the MMIO Lock box, press Apply or OK and run another test to see if you are still limited to 15W. You might still be limited even when MMIO is set correctly.

Use 28 seconds for the MSR turbo time limit.

Do not set the TDP Level value to 2. Your CPU is locked to TDP Level 0 so no point in requesting something different.
 

google brained

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The MMIO PL1 power limit is set to 15W long term. Check the MMIO Lock box, press Apply or OK and run another test to see if you are still limited to 15W. You might still be limited even when MMIO is set correctly.

Use 28 seconds for the MSR turbo time limit.

Do not set the TDP Level value to 2. Your CPU is locked to TDP Level 0 so no point in requesting something different.
you mean this one? and if so then no the cpu still drops to 15 watts after 28 seconds but checking that box did increase performance marginally
 

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unclewebb

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the cpu still drops to 15 watts
That is typical for laptops that use low power U series 15W CPUs. When the MSR and MMIO power limits are set appropriately, if you are still limited to 15W long term, that means there is an embedded controller force feeding a 15W power limit to your CPU. There is no easy way to overcome that limitation.
 
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