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Is RAID 0 worth it with an SSD?

Thrall

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#1
Hello, I'm not sure if this question has been answered yet here (I can't find it in a search), but here is goes:

I'm planning on putting an ssd in my desktop and I'm debating between getting 2 60/64gb sata3 in a raid 0 array or just one 120/128gb sata 6 one. I'm using the sata 6 ports on my 1155 mobo so I know that I will lose trim--but is that really that big of a deal if you just wipe the free space of the ssd once a week using ccleaner? I mostly use my computer for gaming, ripping blu-rays, and sometimes as a minecraft server. Thanks!
 
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#2
I definitely vote YES to a pair in RAID-0. I have a pair of 60GB Patriot Infernos and they are screaming in RAID-0. Here is my thread detailing my adventure.

As far as TRIM goes, most SSDs now support Garbage Collection, which is almost just like TRIM, it is just at a controller level instead of an OS level.

Good Luck with your adventure. :toast:
 

Thrall

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#3
It looks like I could get 2 60gb drives for $220 or a 120gb drive for $180. In terms of game loading performance--would the extra $40 for raid 0 be worth it?
 
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#4
No. You will not notice the difference, especially if you are going to grab a SATA6 SSD. If that is the case and you can grab a 120GB for $180, I say buy one now, and RAID-0 another one down the road. :toast:
 

Thrall

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#5
Sounds good! Did you happen to benchmark your load-times for games before your raid 0'd ssd's and after?
 
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#6
I did not, but I can tell you they are dramatically faster than a normal HDD. I never tried a single SSD, I just grabbed two and went straight to RAID-0, but it is faster than my 2xWD500GB RAID-0. Will you notice the difference between 250Mb/s and 450Mb/s though? I doubt it.
 
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#7
I say FAK no.

Unless you consistently deal with large files and manipulating them, its not owrth it. my boot times did not drop (raid load), If I got in a game faster I had to WAIT for other people...

Why bother? 2x the failure rate, not using the power = save money.
 

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#8
Isn't it true that you lose TRIM support while in RAID? If true, I'd stay away from RAIDing SSD's based on that alone.
 
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#9
Yes, you lose TRIM support in RAID-0, but the Sandforce controllers support Garbage Collection, which is almost just like TRIM, it is just done at a controller level instead of an OS level.

DuraClass technology represents a set of NAND flash management features that work in tandem to deliver world-class SSD reliability, performance, and power efficiency that differentiate SandForce SSD Processors from standard flash controllers. Of particular importance is the use of processing elements to optimally overcome a number of the inherent issues associated with commodity NAND flash memory. DuraClass features include:

DuraWrite, which optimizes the number of program cycles to the flash effectively extending flash rated endurance by 20x or more when compared to standard controllers.
Powerful flash media error correction (ECC) and RAISE (Redundant Array of Independent Silicon Elements), which deliver an orders-of-magnitude improvement in drive reliability versus today’s best enterprise HDDs and SSDs. The result is single-drive RAID-like protection and recovery from a potentially catastrophic flash block failures – all while avoiding the inefficiencies of traditional RAID.
Advanced Wear Leveling and Monitoring - Optimized wear leveling algorithms, further extending flash endurance
Advanced Read/Program Disturb Management, which safeguards against errant re-programming of cells during read and program cycles
Recycler, which intelligently performs garbage collection with the least impact on flash endurance.
Sandforce Link
 

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#10
Yes, you lose TRIM support in RAID-0, but the Sandforce controllers support Garbage Collection, which is almost just like TRIM, it is just done at a controller level instead of an OS level.



Sandforce Link
Ah, I thought TRIM and "garbage collection" were one and the same. I learned something!

Thanks! :toast:
 
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#11
no real point with the current sata 6 ssd batch

OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III...

the 120gb sata 3 ones are nearly twice as fast as the older sata 2's add to that the fact that 60/64GB ssd's tend to be slower than the 120GB ones and you're much better off goign with a single 120gb.

the only way it would be worth it is if you went with 2 of these in sata 3 mode. Then you'd actually get a speed boost from your 2 drive setup. but in sata 2 mode the extra 35MB/s isn't going to show at all and you'll have to deal with twice the negative sides of raid 0 (twice the failure rate, twice the space taken up, twice the power, and etc)
 
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#12
Twice the power on an SSD? LOL, if you care about power consumption of a 2W unit, you have issues. :)
 
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#13
Isn't it true that you lose TRIM support while in RAID? If true, I'd stay away from RAIDing SSD's based on that alone.
Depending on what controller you are using. I think with the ICH10(R) and maybe some older ones, with the new 9.6+ drivers they enabled TRIM while in RAID. Not sure if the Option Rom that you actually make the arrays with has to updated to 9.6(or what ever is later than that) for it to work as well.

Source
 
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#14
There is still no TRIM WITH RAIDed SSD setups. That article is false. That gen of INF drivers are PASS THROUGH. ;)

From the horse's mouth: http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-031242.htm?wapkw=(TRim)

Current Solid Sate Drives' (SSD) firmware does not allow TRIM command to work on SSDs with RAID configuration.
EDIT: I would imagine we all would have heard something about that if the new sandforce controllers or intel controller supported that, no? Its a big thing for those running RAID SSDs.

Another link, more modern, from the Intel forum: http://communities.intel.com/thread/22675?tstart=0

Note what the annoucement in the link above says...
 
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#15
if the point of RAIDing is performance, then no. if it is to make a larger volume out of two smaller drives, then OK. while synthetic benchmarks will show a huge boost in performance, you won' feel it at all.
 
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#16
I believe the smaller an SSD is, the slower it is.

SSD depends on memory chip to write data, so the more chip it has, the faster it can write/read.

I would suggest getting a single 128GB SSD over 2x60GB drives.
 
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#17
Seriously, just get a bigger single sata 6 SSD. It's nearly as fast, twice as reliable, and vastly less effort to setup, maintain and migrate. Avoid raid whenever possible is my philosophy and trust me it will save you from a good number of headaches. I don't even use it for data backup anymore because you can copy table corruption. I just use syncback and I recommend everyone using raid to consider doing the same.
 
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#18
There is still no TRIM WITH RAIDed SSD setups. That article is false. That gen of INF drivers are PASS THROUGH. ;)

From the horse's mouth: http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-031242.htm?wapkw=(TRim)



EDIT: I would imagine we all would have heard something about that if the new sandforce controllers or intel controller supported that, no? Its a big thing for those running RAID SSDs.

Another link, more modern, from the Intel forum: http://communities.intel.com/thread/22675?tstart=0

Note what the annoucement in the link above says...
Not arguing, but now confused, cause according to that first, link, at the bottom of the page, it says it was created in Jan 2010, the 9.6 Drivers that supposedly support it came out in March 2010, but then that link was edited apparently in June 2010. So if I am reading everything right, Intel seemingly doesn't know which it is.
 
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#19
Not arguing, but now confused, cause according to that first, link, at the bottom of the page, it says it was created in Jan 2010, the 9.6 Drivers that supposedly support it came out in March 2010, but then that link was edited apparently in June 2010. So if I am reading everything right, Intel seemingly doesn't know which it is.
Intel knows what it is. In my link, from intel on 3/30/10, it states it does not have that ability. The EDIT on my first link was in July 10. Who knows what it said before.

BOTTOM LINE (unless proven otherwise): You cannot have TRIM on SSD's in RAID. HOWEVER if you have HDD's in Raid0 you can have TRIM on single SSD's on the same system (pass through).

Prior to this release, if you had anything in RAID you could not use TRIM on SSD's as it would not pass the TRIM command on.
 
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#20
Will you notice the difference between 250Mb/s and 450Mb/s though? I doubt it.
I can agree with this to some extent, I haven't tried 2 SSD's in Raid0 though my single 90Gb boots into windows before the Flag even materialises, I fail to see how knocking one second off that would be any more noticeable, it is really fast enough as it is, as for games, I have most of them installed on a HDD as most of my games are steam and my steam folder is too big for this HDD, though for the programs that are there, they open up hella fast, IE as soon as i am in the desktop is up and loaded, 3dmark 11 2 secs, when loading between different bench marks 2-3 secs, I have tried this on HDD's and sometimes the wait for the benches to load annoy me.

Also with the 120gb being cheaper and more than likely more reliable as your not using Raid0 that would be my choice.
 
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#21
Twice the power on an SSD? LOL, if you care about power consumption of a 2W unit, you have issues. :)
some people are weird like that idk?


looks like the op has gone afk. though it looks like he got the consensus early on.
 

Thrall

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#22
I've gone ahead and got the 120gb Corsair Force 3 from newegg. I figure down the road I'll find another cheaper somewhere and put 2 of them in raid 0 array in a 3.5" adapter like this Rosewill RX-C200P 2.5" SSD / HDD Plastic Mounting ... . I'd think that since SSDs are so reliable the risk of a RAID 0 array would be worth it down the line--plus with 2tb drives getting so cheap it'd be pretty easy to keep a image or two lying around of the drive :)
 
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#24
Hurray for RAID!
 
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#25
Congrats. That is a damn fast array right there. :toast: