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Is the form factor of mouse switches standard?

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but you can install long life switches.
"IF" they will physically fit. There is NO standard that ensures that. And isn't that the point here?
 
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"IF" they will physically fit. There is NO standard that ensures that. And isn't that the point here?

Looks like a standard micro switch to me; if you like the mouse, it is well worth fixing.

M90.jpg



Not in the case of the mouses I've opened. Those have all either been those push button switches or micro switches.

Same experience for me.
 
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Well there you go. It "looks" standard to Shrek so go for it. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:
 
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I take apart those D2F switches and clean the contacts when necessary, which is once a year at worst. It's not hard to do. It's not hard to ruin the switch either, so it's best to have at least one spare at hand.
 
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These are the switches Logitech uses.


They are junk, when they wear out people usually replace them with Kailh GM 8.0 blue. A set of Kailh switches costs more than the mouse. I mean really, the M90 is a $1 mouse.

Edit: Looking at the photo that Shrek posted, these are definitely not the ones in that mouse. I know for a fact these are used in the MX line as I have replaced them.
 
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I was suggesting better replacements

Kailh GM 8.0

I take apart those D2F switches and clean the contacts when necessary, which is once a year at worst. It's not hard to do. It's not hard to ruin the switch either, so it's best to have at least one spare at hand.

Seems like a lot of trouble and might be easier to just replace the switch for one that will last.
 
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For the record, silver is the best conductor - better than gold. But it is not used because it tarnishes where gold does not. But of course, gold is too expensive. For those reasons, copper, brass, aluminum, even stainless steel is typically used in switch contacts, typically mixed with other metals as alloys to increase strength or prevent corrosion. When silver is used in more expensive switches it is always in an alloy - or in a hermitically sealed environment totally void of oxygen.
That is correct, but those also get a oxide layer. Perhaps tarnishing is technically an incorrect term, but regardless, the point stands.


The example you use of wetting current is typically an issue where millivolts, microvolts and even lower potentials are involved in extreme environments (like high humidity) AND where small contact pressure is involved. These switches are not typically operated with such low voltage potentials or high humidity environments. And our fingers impose relatively large pressures when we press on the contacts.
1736679588785.png

Right from the datasheet of the D2F.


I note where switching current is below the makers wetting current spec, this problem is easily mitigated by the use of small capacitor across the contacts. So again, not a problem here.
Except they don't use it.
 
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Except they don't use it.
Because it is not needed. Note I said where the switching current is below the makers wetting current spec. I did not say everywhere all the time.

If what you said was commonplace, millions and million and millions of mouse users would be complaining about their mouse switches failing all the time. This is particularly true since the vast majority of those mouse users buy cheap mice. And yet, complaints are not widespread. In fact, these mice are still working just fine after years of use.

Are there exceptions? Of course. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be samples that fail prematurely. But exceptions don't make the rule! So stop pretending they do.

Right from the datasheet of the D2F.
Come on dude! Don't be naïve. READ THE DATASHEET again. Only this time, take the time to understand it. Your screen shot just illustrates you don't understand the issue - at all! And/or you are just trying to obfuscate the issue with out of context data so you don't have to admit you don't understand. :(

Do you not understand what a micro-load circuit is? Do you not understand that mice operate on volts! Typically 3V from 2 AA batteries or 5V from the USB port? These are not micro-load circuits.

Read your "out of context" screen shot again and try this time to understand what it is saying. It is saying, "IF" you use a model designed for ordinary loads in a micro-load circuit, it "may" result in faulty contact.

In other words, what that is saying is, "if you are stupid and use the wrong switch for the job, the switch might fail." No duh!

READ THE DATASHEET again
and this time, take a moment to see in the same D2F datasheet you referenced lists over 120 D2F model switches with different current capacities that the designers can choose from to ensure they match the expected loads!

What that is telling the designers is to use common sense and select the appropriate D2F model designed for the expected load. And guess what? They do! And that is why this is not a widespread common problem and why they do not need to use those caps.
 
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Because it is not needed. Note I said where the switching current is below the makers wetting current spec. I did not say everywhere all the time.

If what you said was commonplace, millions and million and millions of mouse users would be complaining about their mouse switches failing all the time. This is particularly true since the vast majority of those mouse users buy cheap mice. And yet, complaints are not widespread. In fact, these mice are still working just fine after years of use.

Are there exceptions? Of course. Until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will always be samples that fail prematurely. But exceptions don't make the rule! So stop pretending they do.


Come on dude! Don't be naïve. READ THE DATASHEET again. Only this time, take the time to understand it. Your screen shot just illustrates you don't understand the issue - at all! And/or you are just trying to obfuscate the issue with out of context data so you don't have to admit you don't understand. :(

Do you not understand what a micro-load circuit is? Do you not understand that mice operate on volts! Typically 3V from 2 AA batteries or 5V from the USB port? These are not micro-load circuits.

Read your "out of context" screen shot again and try this time to understand what it is saying. It is saying, "IF" you use a model designed for ordinary loads in a micro-load circuit, it "may" result in faulty contact.

In other words, what that is saying is, "if you are stupid and use the wrong switch for the job, the switch might fail." No duh!

READ THE DATASHEET again
and this time, take a moment to see in the same D2F datasheet you referenced lists over 120 D2F model switches with different current capacities that the designers can choose from to ensure they match the expected loads!

What that is telling the designers is to use common sense and select the appropriate D2F model designed for the expected load. And guess what? They do! And that is why this is not a widespread common problem and why they do not need to use those caps.
Bill knows his shit. Listen to him.
 
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Thanks but my confidence is not always that high. So I do my homework, use my friend Bing DDG Google, research and verify my facts to make sure what was or what I think to be true, is. That is why in this case, I looked up, read, and took the time to understand that datasheet.
 
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I don't remember the specific product I bought but I succeeded in buying switches for my Microspft Intellimouse Explorers.
 

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As a guy who has opened a ton of mice, you have two choices. Rectangular as shown above, or pad style shown on the previous page.

Since you want to replace, open the mouse and see. From what I have seen, they all use similar pin layouts and can be easily soldered and unsoldered.

As said, open the mouse and see what you have, compare to what you prefer and have fun with the mod.
 
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If it's helpful, the switch has 2 leads, is through-hole soldered, and measures about 14 x 5 x 6.5 mm and the leads are spaced about 6 mm apart (account for +/- 0.5 mm in my measurements because my hands tremble and I couldn't hold the ruler steadily).

Seems to me the M90 switches have 3 leads each

M90 board.jpg


P.S. sudothelinuxwizard (via Private Message) confirms that the switch really has 3 leads
 
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Optical switches won't work. While they may be the same form-factor, they require special driving circuitry and are not a drop-in replacement for mechanical ones.
Either get something like this(Kaihl reds are frequently used in newer gaming mice):

... or just get a new mouse. M90 is pretty crap as-is (even if it works), no fancy switches can fix that.
And adapters take up space.

Nothing beats a high quality mouse.
 
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That is correct, but those also get a oxide layer. Perhaps tarnishing is technically an incorrect term, but regardless, the point stands.
I'll mention this even if doesn't relate much to this thread: silver oxide (more correctly, a mix of sulfides, oxides and other compounds) has another unique property. It's a quite good electrical conductor (although nowhere close to metals). At least in silver-plated connectors, if very low resistance isn't required, a thin layer of oxide doesn't impair the connection. Here are some sources: Molex, Advanced Plating Technologies, random Chinese site.
 
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I'll mention this even if doesn't relate much to this thread: silver oxide (more correctly, a mix of sulfides, oxides and other compounds) has another unique property. It's a quite good electrical conductor (although nowhere close to metals). At least in silver-plated connectors, if very low resistance isn't required, a thin layer of oxide doesn't impair the connection. Here are some sources: Molex, Advanced Plating Technologies, random Chinese site.
I don't know man. I've been seeing a lot of user reports on this since forever and have been theorizing, but y'all bring up some very valid points.
 
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The switch probably has a pull-up or pull-down resistor that will meet the minimum current to keep the contact clean.

VX
  • 160 mA for silver alloy
  • 1 mA for gold alloy
Just replace the switches and enjoy the repair.

I just wish mice would use an SR latch against bounce

SR latch.jpg


The Kailh GM 8.0 is good for 8 million clicks.
View attachment 379655

Typo on my part!

Good for 80 million clicks.
 
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