ISRT refuses to see my Samsung SM951 128GB M.2 drive

[RejZoR]

I've bought a speedy Samsung SM951 M.2 module (PCIe version that's using AHCI) to be used for HDD+SSD hybrid storage using Intel Rapid Storage Technology.

Basically ISRT only supports up to 64GB, the rest remains unused. But 64GB SM951 doesn't exist so this is what I got. The problem begins with Intel's sotware not even recognizing the drive for some weird reason. Windows sees it, UEFI BIOS sees it, I can manipulate the partitions and all, but I just can't see it listed in Intel Rapid Storage software. HDD is listed but not the M.2 module.

Before I had a 32GB SATA SSD and it was detected and listed. This one refuses to do that.

Is Intel X99 using a 3rd party controller for M.2 or something? I just can't seem to pair it for SSD caching using Intel RAID (ISRT).

So stupid, bought the drive specifically for this and now I can't use it. I do use it with eBoostr like I have before, but I'm experiencing bizarre system hangs/lockups and only thing that really changed since then is this M.2 module. Any ideas?

 

[Jetster]

Did you try install ISRT directly from Intel? Double click the icon in the task bar?

 

[RejZoR]

Yes I have. It's also strange that when I'm using normal storage mode AHCI (instead of RAID for ISRT) I see this in Device Manager:

For some reason my 2TB HDD is installed using Intel drivers, but the M.2 is apparently using standard SATA AHCI for some reason and not Intel driver. I'm guessing this is the reason why it's not listed in Rapid Storage software. But why do they advertise M.2 for ISRT then if it apparently doesn't work?

Apparently I found something and all I can say is FU Intel. At least make it clear that M.2 can't even fucking be used. Now I've basically wasted 100€ for a M.2 module that I have no use for.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/88408
http://www.win-raid.com/t829f16-No-...-and-SSHD-drives-show-up-as-regular-SATA.html

I understand that those drives connected to actual PCIe slots don't work this way, but one would assume M.2, despite using PCIe is wired differently and supported by the chipset. Apaprently not. This is retarded to the max. I've bought M.2 because it has insane performance compared to shitty SATA drives and now I'll have to sell this crap and buy a normal speedy SSD. Stupid.

I'd have to use a M.2 SATA module with shitty SATA speeds which would most likely be recognized by the ISRT, but not AHCI and NVMe modules. Right?

EDIT:
Is Samsung 850 Evo M.2 SATA any good? I know I'm restricted with SATA interface speeds then, but how is the rest?

 

[erixx]

1) or it is Asus or it is the whole X99 family, I also have way more weirdness then I deserve, if you read me, you'll know. I was proud of my latest settings and OC, it worked well over a week, with multiple starts. Last night I wanted to game a little after dinner: again bios screen frozen... I started to tweak and tweak until I fell asleep...
2) RAID: I had RAID last year but stopped using it, but I remember you could use windows software raid (Storage Spaces iirc). If it is not listed (the M2 drive) in Intels management tool, forget it. Herer, I am using everything drivers wise from Win10 install, except "unknown devices", like the chipset driver, and nothing else from Asus CD or website, I don't trust their QA processes...
I have not done a hybrid system, mixing different buses and protocols with latest and greatest tech often has undesired SIDE-EFFECTS.... Think of people with SLI/XF and buying a M2 to learn their PCIE lanes get cut....

 

[RejZoR]

Another confusing info for my Sabertooth X99 (taken from ASUS page):

1 x M.2 Socket 3, graywith M Key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (Support PCIE SSD only)

Does this mean I can't stick a M.2 SATA module in the motherboard? F**king hell, so much variables NO ONE ever talks about.

No mentions there are three versions of M.2 modules (SATA, AHCI, NVMe), no mentions ISRT doesn't support AHCI and NVMe modules, no mentions about above specifics like PCIE only drives wtf?!

 

[erixx]

Does this mean I can't stick a M.2 SATA module in the motherboard? F**king hell, so much variables NO ONE ever talks about.

I DID NOT SAY THAT TO NOT CALL YOU SILLY, BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST QUESTION BEFORE BUYING! FEELING SORRY. RETURN IT, ASAP!

 

[tabascosauz]

I'd have to use a M.2 SATA module with shitty SATA speeds which would most likely be recognized by the ISRT, but not AHCI and NVMe modules. Right?

EDIT:
Is Samsung 850 Evo M.2 SATA any good? I know I'm restricted with SATA interface speeds then, but how is the rest?

I would predict that the 850 EVO M.2 would be no different from the 2.5" version, which is pretty stellar in itself. Well, not XP941/SM951 kind of fast, but you get what I mean. I wonder if you could just buy one of those 64GB Sandisk drives (can't remember the exact line). They're pretty cheap nowadays.

If you want the PCIe speeds I guess you could keep the SM951 as a Windows drive? I dunno what you were on before the SM951.

 

[erixx]

Rejzor, you could buy a cheap PCI-E adapter for the SM951.... SSD on PCIE is faster than SATA SSD

 

[qubit]

Apparently I found something and all I can say is FU Intel. At least make it clear that M.2 can't even fucking be used. Now I've basically wasted 100€ for a M.2 module that I have no use for.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/88408
http://www.win-raid.com/t829f16-No-...-and-SSHD-drives-show-up-as-regular-SATA.html

I understand that those drives connected to actual PCIe slots don't work this way, but one would assume M.2, despite using PCIe is wired differently and supported by the chipset. Apaprently not. This is retarded to the max. I've bought M.2 because it has insane performance compared to shitty SATA drives and now I'll have to sell this crap and buy a normal speedy SSD. Stupid.

It sounds like the product isn't as described - can't be used in the way it's claimed - so you should be able to return it to the store for a full refund. Just make sure you supply the evidence in the fullest and clearest way possible so that they can't wriggle out of it.

If you bought it off a private individual, then you're likely out of luck.

 

[RejZoR]

Rejzor, you could buy a cheap PCI-E adapter for the SM951.... SSD on PCIE is faster than SATA SSD

I already have a motherboard with M.2 slot and a M.2 module that is using PCIe AHCI. I wouldn't benefit anything from buying a PCIe addin card.

I liked M.2 because it doesn't occupy my PCIe slots or slots in HDD bay (better airflow). That's why I've opted for speedy M.2 AHCI. But after looking at Sabertooth X99 specs, they say only PCIe SSD's are supported, meaning even if I buy M.2 SATA module, it won't work (apparently). Or would it? I don't want to buy another module and then find out it's not working again...

EDIT:
I can continue using eBoostr software, but I'm experiencing really bizarre system hangs and I'm suspecting this is the reason. It's more flexible than other solutions, but if it's hanging, that ain't good...

 

[vega22]

m2 sata is no faster than normal sata ssd :/

you want that sm951 in pcie mode to get the speeds which your m2 slot can not provide.

m2 sata/sata express should never of been a thing as it was instantly dead in the water with m2 pcie.

 

[Aquinus]

I understand that those drives connected to actual PCIe slots don't work this way, but one would assume M.2, despite using PCIe is wired differently and supported by the chipset.

This is what happens when you assume things...
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/SABERTOOTH_X99/specifications/

The PCIe x16_3 shares bandwidth with M.2 x4. When M.2 socket is occupied, the PCIe x16_3 slot will be disabled.

Which basically means that it's not attached to the PCH, nor could I find any mention on ASUS' site describing what you're trying to do. You know what they say about assuming.

 

[Athlon2K15]

m2 sata is no faster than normal sata ssd :/

you want that sm951 in pcie mode to get the speeds which your m2 slot can not provide.

m2 sata/sata express should never of been a thing as it was instantly dead in the water with m2 pcie.

This + Caching is for noobs.

 

[RejZoR]

No, M.2 AHCI (PCIe) works fine, it's what I'm using. SM951 is PCIe version. It works and it's ridiculously fast, but I can't use it with Intel Smart Response Technology (which is designed to pair your HDD and SSD drive into a hybrid caching RAID. Which gives you ability to use huge HDD with super fast SSD to boost performance of all data, not just system partition which is what you get when you install WIndows on small SSD and the rest on normal HDD.

 

[Aquinus]

No, M.2 AHCI (PCIe) works fine, it's what I'm using. SM951 is PCIe version. It works and it's ridiculously fast, but I can't use it with Intel Smart Response Technology (which is designed to pair your HDD and SSD drive into a hybrid caching RAID. Which gives you ability to use huge HDD with super fast SSD to boost performance of all data, not just system partition which is what you get when you install WIndows on small SSD and the rest on normal HDD.

Except the part where nothing about your board seems to indicate that this can be done. Where did you learn that you could do this with your board?

 

[RejZoR]

This is what happens when you assume things...
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/SABERTOOTH_X99/specifications/

Which basically means that it's not attached to the PCH, nor could I find any mention on ASUS' site describing what you're trying to do. You know what they say about assuming.

Yeah, but also no one explicitely says it's not connected. Either this is Sabertooth's specific design or they just do it this way on all boards and don't bother to say it. Whole ISRT point in the past was the use of M.2 modules, but granted, there were only M.2 SATA back then...

 

[Aquinus]

Yeah, but also no one explicitely says it's not connected. Either this is Sabertooth's specific design or they just do it this way on all boards and don't bother to say it. Whole ISRT point in the past was the use of M.2 modules, but granted, there were only M.2 SATA back then...

So you're assuming that because it was an Intel board with an M.2 slot it would just work? Congratulations, next time do research before assuming something can just happen.

Edit: The disk isn't formatted, correct? As I understand it, you can't accelerate with a M.2 that's already formatted. That's the only thing I can think of that would make it not show up but, I'm relatively confident that not going through the PCH has a lot of to do with it.

 

[tabascosauz]

My understanding is that the inability to use PCIe caching is justified by the fact that at the end of the day, the target drive is still a HDD. Taking into account possibly severe latency since it's not a hardware solution, there's probably a good reason why caching SSDs are low end budget drives. Just because the SM951 is faster than SATA doesn't mean the caching would be that much faster than with a SATA drive.

 

[RejZoR]

@Aquinus
And you are the expert for everything or what? I'm not fucking dumb, but we are talking about crazy specifics here that aren't mentioned anywhere on the ASUS webpage (in a plain understandable way) or the motherboard manual. I've checked several reviews and pages and couldn't see any mentions of this "caveat". I know that external controllers (like the AsMedia, Marvell, Realtek and others) never fall within Intel functions, but last time I checked, M.2 support is native for X79 and X99 chipsets, it's not controlled by external 3rd party controller. It is part of the PCH, but since it's routed through the PCIe lanes, it's not recognized under IRST as data storage medium and as such fails to work under IRST. But hey, I realized that when I couldn't get the damn thing working. There is no way in knowing this without actually working with the hardware.

@tabascosauz
It is faster. A lot faster. Particularly when loading games where huge data is cached. With programs it's not so noticeable. And also write speed when building the cache. 32GB cache drive was a Sandisk's fork of USB thumbdrive. 500MB/s read with probably slightly lower IOPS and quite crappy write speed. SM951 has 2GB/s sequential, 600MB/s write and like 100.000 IOPS. Plus it's larger so it can cache more data. Even if I swap between few games, cache still isn't fully populated. Anyway, no matter how people call me stupid, I know caching works and I love it. 2TB storage with speeds of SSD for the price of highest end HDD. I have 2TB Samsung SSD's in my sight, but +700€ is still a bit much. Maybe 1-2 more years and prices should drop enough to grab one. Then I'll be using 100% SSD. Preferably as M.2 AHCI/NVMe and not as SATA...

 

[Aquinus]

And you are the expert for everything or what? I'm not fucking dumb, but we are talking about crazy specifics here that aren't mentioned anywhere on the ASUS webpage (in a plain understandable way) or the motherboard manual. I've checked several reviews and pages and couldn't see any mentions of this "caveat".

If you're so smart, why didn't you notice that the M.2 slot goes through the CPU according to the specs for your board? You whine without doing research.

I'm not claiming to know anything other than knowing how to read because a lot of other motherboards will actually say that the M.2 slot goes through the PCH like the Maximus VII Hero.

 

[Pill Monster]

Caching is for noobs.

This +1.

 

[qubit]

 

[newtekie1]

I understand that those drives connected to actual PCIe slots don't work this way, but one would assume M.2, despite using PCIe is wired differently and supported by the chipset. Apaprently not. This is retarded to the max.

I'm not sure why you'd assume this. The entire idea of PCI-E 3.0 M.2 is to bypass the chipset, and the latencies and bottlenecks it creates.

As for the caching debate, it definitely does boost the speed of HHDs by a noticeable amount but it doesn't make the whole drive act like an SSD. If you switch from one game to another often, like I do(still switching between GTA:V and Fallout 4 as well as a few Indie games) then the first time you play a different game, there is a good chance it isn't in the cache and can hitch. This happens to be with both GTA:V and Fallout 4. But after about 10 minutes of playing the hitching goes away. Anyway, I do actually think SSD caching is nice to use though. I've started using PrimoCache. It is $30, but has a free trial so you can try it if you want. It has several advantages over RST. The first big one being that you can use SSDs larger than 64GB. The other one being that you can set the SSD to cache multiple hard drives if you have them. The last being that the drives can be connected in any way to the system, so even if they are on different controllers, like on your system, you can still use the SSD to cache the HDD.

 

[jsfitz54]

Not sure if this helps but Samsung has a special NVMe driver for 950 Pro, located here: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html

 

[Pill Monster]

I'm not sure why you'd assume this. The entire idea of PCI-E 3.0 M.2 is to bypass the chipset, and the latencies and bottlenecks it creates.

As for the caching debate, it definitely does boost the speed of HHDs by a noticeable amount but it doesn't make the whole drive act like an SSD. If you switch from one game to another often, like I do(still switching between GTA:V and Fallout 4 as well as a few Indie games) then the first time you play a different game, there is a good chance it isn't in the cache and can hitch. This happens to be with both GTA:V and Fallout 4. But after about 10 minutes of playing the hitching goes away. Anyway, I do actually think SSD caching is nice to use though. I've started using PrimoCache. It is $30, but has a free trial so you can try it if you want. It has several advantages over RST. The first big one being that you can use SSDs larger than 64GB. The other one being that you can set the SSD to cache multiple hard drives if you have them. The last being that the drives can be connected in any way to the system, so even if they are on different controllers, like on your system, you can still use the SSD to cache the HDD.

PrimoCache and FancyCache do not speed up drives, none of those apps do, they cache files in RAM. You're not acessing the drive you're acessing RAM. Windows does the exact same thing, I said this to you in the other thread.

If u want I can show you a screenshot right now of mapped files sitting in RAM.

If I was to make an educated guess I'd say the 64GB limit is because 64GB of RAM is all your system supports.

You're wasting your money mate.....that's my advice, take it or leave it.....