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Laptop battery degrading or charger issue

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So I have had my Alienware X16 R1 for just over a year, from day 1 I had limited the battery charge to 80% for battery longevity sake and the laptop is plugged in at all time when i'm at my desk or chilling in the living room.
As we know high end laptop GPU requires battery + charger to hit its target TDP, i've noticed the laptop doesn't charge to 80% now but hovers and holds charge around 70%. It used to charge all the way and holds around 75-79% while gaming or browsing the web, but as mentioned it now stays around 70% no matter what.
Is this battery degrading or a potential charger issue?
 
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There were laptops who would not drain the battery. It's cheap design by the model/brand in question. Ages ago there was the obvious statement. Get a power supply unit with more amps (ampere on the output) so you will avoid such issues.

It's chemistry. I doubt all those battery capacity values which are shown are reliable. Only because you see a percentage or number does not really mean it has to be true. I assume it's just some sort of voltage curve which is than converted to a percentage. I hardly know any device which has a reliable percentage value with a lithium ion battery or similar battery technology.

If you dislike seeing such percentage number you can replace the battery. It has a reason why in central Europe there is usually only six months warranty on batteries for laptops. Or replace the battery later when it hits a certain percentage value shown.
 
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You can try to go through a couple or discharge->charge cycles. If you never discharge the battery the battery logic might not know its proper SoC (state of charge), so it has to "learn" it by hitting the lower and upper boundaries (or be somewhat close to them).
 
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You can try to go through a couple or discharge->charge cycles. If you never discharge the battery the battery logic might not know its proper SoC (state of charge), so it has to "learn" it by hitting the lower and upper boundaries (or be somewhat close to them).
The suggestion is spot on but the explanation is not quite right. Sadly, even laptop makers don't use the correct terminology so it causes confusion.

Look in your manual for battery "calibration". If you do as Timbaloo correctly suggested and run through a couple complete discharge/charge cycles, this "should" synchronize (calibrate) the battery's SoC with the laptop's battery status monitoring circuits. That is, operate the laptop unplugged until the battery runs down and the laptop shuts off by itself. Then charge it completely. Repeat that cycle 2 or 3 times.

"IF" the battery is still good, and "IF" the laptop's battery monitoring circuits are still working properly, then your battery should behave properly too.

If the battery does charge when plugged in, then most likely the charger is still good. Typically, the only intelligence/monitoring done by the charger itself is for overheat and/or overcurrent scenarios where it will (if working properly) hopefully shutdown when those abnormal scenarios occur.

I suspect your battery warranty is good for 1 year so you may be out of luck there. While all batteries get weaker with time, they typically last several years before needing replacement. But until Man can create perfection 100% of the time, there will be units that fail prematurely. And of course, they can be damaged after they leave the factory.

As noted in my sig, "Heat is the bane of all electronics!" That includes batteries. So make sure your fans are spinning properly and, as best as you can, clean out the heat-trapping dust from the interior. Monitor your temps and if necessary, use a laptop cooling pad. Just make sure it has its own power supply or connects to a USB wall-outlet adapter. Using the laptop's USB port just places more demand (and thus heat) on the laptop.
 
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So I have had my Alienware X16 R1 for just over a year, from day 1 I had limited the battery charge to 80% for battery longevity sake and the laptop is plugged in at all time when i'm at my desk or chilling in the living room.
As we know high end laptop GPU requires battery + charger to hit its target TDP, i've noticed the laptop doesn't charge to 80% now but hovers and holds charge around 70%. It used to charge all the way and holds around 75-79% while gaming or browsing the web, but as mentioned it now stays around 70% no matter what.
Is this battery degrading or a potential charger issue?
as someone has replied - get a better charger (stronger, more powerful). Sorry, but thst's BS that GPU needs "battery", never heard that laptop GPU works as "hybrid" engine lol
and yes battery do degrade - even my asus tuf f15 has degraded like 22% of battery for a year+ of usage, although the usage on battery was like a few days lol
 
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Sorry, but thst's BS that GPU needs "battery", never heard that laptop GPU works as "hybrid" engine lol
Just because you never heard of it, that does not make it BS.

Also, that is not what @kurosagi01 said. He said "battery + charger" and that is true for many systems.

On my own MSI, for example, when on battery only, the default "Power Options" for "On battery" cause the display to noticeably dim and the CPU throttles back a little. This is to conserve battery power and increase battery run times. To obtain maximum performance capability, the power supply must be plugged in.
 
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So I have had my Alienware X16 R1 for just over a year, from day 1 I had limited the battery charge to 80% for battery longevity sake and the laptop is plugged in at all time when i'm at my desk or chilling in the living room.
As we know high end laptop GPU requires battery + charger to hit its target TDP, i've noticed the laptop doesn't charge to 80% now but hovers and holds charge around 70%. It used to charge all the way and holds around 75-79% while gaming or browsing the web, but as mentioned it now stays around 70% no matter what.
Is this battery degrading or a potential charger issue?
Those 80% limits completely mess up the battery calibration. As others suggested, you need to run 1-2 full circles to recalibrate it.
 
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Those 80% limits completely mess up the battery calibration.
While true, it takes a long time for it to get so far off that it causes problems. And it really is mainly an issue for those of use who leave our laptops plugged in the majority of the time. For users who typically run on battery for a large percentage of their computing routine, it stays about as accurate as can be expected. And to that, close accuracy should NEVER EVER be expected. The computer has no clue how we will use our computers every day. It can only guess based on past usage patterns, but that is never constant.
 
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While true, it takes a long time for it to get so far off that it causes problems. And it really is mainly an issue for those of use who leave our laptops plugged in the majority of the time. For users who typically run on battery for a large percentage of their computing routine, it stays about as accurate as can be expected. And to that, close accuracy should NEVER EVER be expected. The computer has no clue how we will use our computers every day. It can only guess based on past usage patterns, but that is never constant.
Mine (running it at 80% for ~ a year) thinks it's now a 60wh battery (76wh nominal). It's been like this for some months, too bored to recalibrate :roll:
 
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Well, without further troubleshooting, at this point that is not an indication the calibration is off - especially since the battery WILL age and degrade during a year of use. You would need to manually calibrate, then compare the before and after results to how far off, if off, that 60wh reading is.

Regardless, one anecdotal example does not suggest that is the norm for everyone.
 
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Just because you never heard of it, that does not make it BS.

Also, that is not what @kurosagi01 said. He said "battery + charger" and that is true for many systems.

On my own MSI, for example, when on battery only, the default "Power Options" for "On battery" cause the display to noticeably dim and the CPU throttles back a little. This is to conserve battery power and increase battery run times. To obtain maximum performance capability, the power supply must be plugged in.
YEAH bro, it's OBVIOUS, and one also could select a power plan (this could be problematic only on I assume "Home" versions on modern 10 and 11 Windows) which will change the scenario. I agree about battery only, I said what if you have dead/disconnected battery? Most laptops will work normally, and for God sake, none will have "lack of power":rolleyes:
 
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Just to answer some of the questions, I am using a 330w charger which is the highest charger provided from Dell/alienware.
I may have misread or misunderstood the whole battery+charger is needed to get the full TDP out of the components in the laptop itself.
The 4080 is rated to be 175w TDP and the 13900HK is 123w TDP, combining the two alone is already 298w TDP?
So to get the "full" benefits consistently the charger is needed.
I also believe Dell/Alienware has also designed the laptops to need the battery to even power on correctly, which is probably why I haven't disconnected the battery in the first place.

I will try and do a full power cycle to re-calibrate it and if that doesn't solve it then i'll just leave it and replace the battery when needed.
 
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Also, that is not what @kurosagi01 said. He said "battery + charger" and that is true for many systems.

I do not want to derail the topic. I had a supermarket msi gaming laptop, than ASUS G70 sg, ASUS G75 VW gaming laptops (sold three years ago).

Around 10 years ago several notebook tests claimed that the gaming session will drain the battery of some notebook even while using the power brick.
Most buyers who are not knowledgeable will not notice that. The mainboard will downclock the cpu or gpu to stay in the low power budget.

--

Just to answer some of the questions, I am using a 330w charger which is the highest charger provided from Dell/alienware.
I may have misread or misunderstood the whole battery+charger is needed to get the full TDP out of the components in the laptop itself.
The 4080 is rated to be 175w TDP and the 13900HK is 123w TDP, combining the two alone is already 298w TDP?
So to get the "full" benefits consistently the charger is needed.
I also believe Dell/Alienware has also designed the laptops to need the battery to even power on correctly, which is probably why I haven't disconnected the battery in the first place.

I will try and do a full power cycle to re-calibrate it and if that doesn't solve it then i'll just leave it and replace the battery when needed.

I'll write a bit more.

Usually you have some sort of direct currect (DC) Input range of the power supply. Most likely around 19V DC.
That's why I wrote to get a stronger power brick with the correct connector and correct electrical wiring.
Watt = Voltage multiplied Ampere.
Lets assume you have a power brick which states something like
19 V DC 9.36 A
than i would get something like
19V DC 12 A with the correct wiring.

Electrical wise, when the mainboard is not bad designed the additional current should not fry the mainboard. The Input circuit should be well designed to handle that. Sorry that thing did not come to mind while I wrote my first post. I do not own that device. I state the obvious. When you use a aftermarket not same brand power brick you do it on your own risk. Usually there should be no issues.


You need to power everything.
Mainboard, Display, RAM, CPU, GPU, data-storage, USB-ports which includes external peripherals, external displays ...

Please see my statement just as opinion and as a starting point to think about a possible solution or generic talk about gaming notebooks.
 
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i've noticed the laptop doesn't charge to 80% now but hovers and holds charge around 70%.
I might be inclined to temporarily disable the 80% charging limit and allow the battery to fully charge. As others have said, run it through several deep discharge/recharge cycles. I keep batmon (Passmark software) running in the background on all my laptops. I find it handy to keep an eye on battery levels and ageing.
https://www.passmark.com/products/batmon/

Is this battery degrading or a potential charger issue?
I doubt it's your charger, more likely just normal battery ageing.


I should point out I have never invoked a 'reduced maximum charge' level for batteries (typically 80%) because I haven't found this feature in any of my laptops. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough in the manufacturers' power setting options, maybe they really weren't there. I often tweak the Windows power options for full power, even when the laptop is unplugged from the charger. I prefer speed over battery life.

As an electronics design engineer, I have always been torn between the need to increase battery life by not continuously "over charging" to 100% and the need to reduce the total number of complete charge/discharge cycles. It is my understanding rechargeable batteries have a finite number of full recharge cycles, e.g. 500 cycles, 1000 cycles, etc. The more times you flatten a battery, then recharge it (as in a smartphone?), the sooner you use up all the "lives".

I have an HP laptop at least 6-years old and the battery still retains much of its original capacity, as shown in Passmark's batmon software. This battery does not discharge appreciably when left switched off for up to two weeks. I have other old laptops where the batteries appear healthy, but which slowly lose charge over two weeks and end up completely discharged. No doubt these are candidates for battery replacement.

I replaced a battery in one laptop, using a cheap $30 unbranded clone from eBay, since I wasn't prepared to pay $130 for a genuine battery. This was only a partial fix, because the new third-party battery had the same self-discharge rate as the OEM worn out battery.

I may have misread or misunderstood the whole battery+charger is needed to get the full TDP out of the components in the laptop itself.
From an engineering perspective, after reading reviews of high power gaming laptops "cobbled" together by tech enthusiasts, I seem to remember they sometimes need a really big mains brick to provide enough power for a massive GPU. In these instances the power supply circuits built into heavily modified laptops were not capable of supplying enough current to the replacement GPU card.

For standard (unmodified) gaming or workstation laptops, I'd expect the design to be capable of running the computer at full power from battery, albeit for only 15 to 20 minutes (in some instances) until the battery was exhausted. For normal use, you'd probably leave the mains PSU permanently connected.

Usually you have some sort of direct currect (DC) Input range of the power supply.
Are we talking about the power supply circuits built into the laptop. If so, I agree. The laptop manufacturer will have designed the power delivery circuits inside the laptop to meet the demands of the CPU/GPU/etc. Since the power transistors (MOSFETs?) in the DC-to-DC converter circuits in the laptop have a finite maximum current rating, the designer will take steps to build in current limits. Hence, even if you connect a PSU with a much higher maximum output current to a laptop, it will not draw "infinite" current from that supply.

This will apply to the battery charging circuits too. Batteries are designed to be charged at a certain "C-rating". The laptop designer will set the charge rate to suit the battery, If you connect a more powerful power brick to the laptop, chances are the laptop will not make use of the "extra" power to charge the battery. The battery will continue to charge at the designed "C-rate".
https://www.redwaybattery.com/under...-is-and-why-it-matters-for-lithium-batteries/

Most likely around 19V DC.
The 19V "standard" is giving way to USB-C charging at various voltages. My old laptops have old fashioned "19V" fixed voltage chargers, but my new laptops negotiate with modern USB-C chargers for the most appropriate voltage, which tends to be 20V (100W max). More powerful laptops may require USB-C voltages of 28V (140W max), or 36V (180W max), or 48V (240W max) with PD (Power Delivery). Oh, the wonders and confusion of USB-C power supply standards.
https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd

My new(ish) Lenovo laptop complains when I connect an under-rated 65W USB-C power brick, stating the laptop will be charged at a slower rate. When I connect the "correct" 100W USB-C brick, the Lenovo is happy again. It detects the power output of the 65W supply is not enough to meet the "normal" charging rate for the battery, so it switches to a "slower" charge rate. The battery still charges, but it takes longer with a 65W PSU.

than i would get something like
19V DC 12 A with the correct wiring.
As I've attempted to describe above, buying a more powerful PSU might not achieve anything on a standard laptop. It's unlikely to do any harm though. The laptop will only draw the current it needs at any instant in time. Unless you're running a CPU + GPU benchmark stress test and charging a flat battery, I'd expect the brick supplied with the laptop (e.g. 9.36A) to be sufficient. However, I'm prepared to concede that some gaming laptops might be an exception, if the manufacturer has skimped on the power brick rating, to save weight when carrying the brick around in a backpack.

If (and it's a big if) the laptop designer has set a specific "C-rate" for battery charging, if you connect a 12A brick instead of the 9.36A brick, the battery won't charge any faster.

Similarly, unless the laptop's DC-to-DC converter circuits (supplying the CPU, GPU, chipsets, SSD) are being starved of current (power), then fitting a 12A-capable brick instead of a 9.36A brick won't make any difference.
 
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Are we talking about the power supply circuits built into the laptop.

Of course the build in DC Voltage Range.

The difficult part for myself is on how much information you give. And all those limitations and other important stuff which may be important.

As I've attempted to describe above, buying a more powerful PSU might not achieve anything on a standard laptop.

Sadly thats the point. I do not ahve access to the motherboard. Than you could look up the integrated circuits and may be able to determine the next steps.

Without knowing the circuit it's more a very interesting discussion about gaming laptop design.

Unless you're running a CPU + GPU benchmark stress test

I stopped bothering with laptops after my 3rd generation Intel ASUS G75VW.

There were several notebook tests where it states: ... Battery will discharge in gaming session while gaming ...
This was a common acceptable hidden fault. In my words.

It*s all about the circuit of the mainboard (and possible firmware)
 
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Usually you have some sort of direct currect (DC) Input range of the power supply. Most likely around 19V DC.
Of course the build in DC Voltage Range.

I don't understand what you mean by "range". You said it twice so I have to assume that is the word you meant. With DC power voltages, other than a very small deviation, there is no "range" with DC like there often is with AC. That is actually one of the characteristic advantages of DC - a steady, consistent voltage - where AC, by definition, "alternates" from 0V up to a peak positive voltage back down through 0V to a peak negative voltage then back up to 0V again.

When it comes to power adapters, it is important to understand there is a difference in function when these AC/DC power transformers/adapters are being used as power supplies versus when used as battery chargers. The terms are NOT technically interchangeable.

You used 19VDC as an example. A "range" would suggest (just to illustrate) that anywhere between 15VDC and 24VDC would be acceptable. No it wouldn't. For a power supply, something closer to 18.8 to 19.2 would be right - and the device's (laptop's) regulator circuits will adjust as necessary. A 15VDC power supply would be too low and could cause excess strain on the regulator circuits. That could either prevent the laptop from working at all, or it may cause an overheating issue, or both.

If this adapter is being used to charge a 19V battery, 16VDC would never charge the battery completely or properly. And a 24VDC charging voltage may actually damage the battery - depending on the battery. More on this in a bit.

AC is more tolerant. If you have 120VAC mains as the standard (as we do in the US) the acceptable range is 110VAC up to 126VAC. No problem.

The point is, if the laptop is designed to run on 19VDC, then the power supply should be rated at 19VDC, within very close tolerances (voltage range).

Now to throw a wrench in the works, batteries always require a charging voltage slightly higher than the battery's voltage rating. Always higher, never lower. If the battery is rated at 19VDC, the charger's output voltage should be slightly higher than 19VDC If not higher, the battery will never fully charge. To illustrate, I just measured the output on the adapter for my MSI laptop, which uses a 19VDC battery. The output voltage is 19.95VDC.

If you are familiar with car batteries, alternators and chargers typically output a voltage between 13.5 to 14.4VDC for 12VDC batteries. If 12V or less, the battery will never fully charge. Why not 12V? Because characteristic of all batteries is rate of charge they take on slows down the closer it gets to fully charged. The closer it gets, the more it slows down. Just like trying to reach the speed of light. Since our rate of acceleration slows down the closer we get to the speed of light, we can never quite reach it (at least not until we learn to break some laws of physics).

Now, about current. For a "power supply", you can ALWAYs use a supply rated at a higher current value, but never lower. If lower, the device may try to demand more power than the supply is capable of delivering. Not good. If the supply has a higher capacity, no problem since the device will only demand what it needs. This is why we can put a 1000W PSU in our computers when we only need 500W. The computer will only demand what it needs, not what the supply is capable of delivering. And the supply will only pull from the wall that same 500W, plus a little extra due to inefficiencies (wasted in the form of heat).

As a charger, a low current just means it will take longer to charger the battery (assuming proper voltage). This is why we can use a "trickle" charger on a HUGE car battery. It may take a couple days to charge a fully discharged battery, but it will charge eventually. Try to start the car with a trickle changer, and no luck.

Now IF the adapter is being used as a charger AND as a power supply for the laptop, it MUST have a current capability to support charging AND operate the laptop at the same time. This takes us back @AleXXX666 's comment about "lack of power".

For many very high-end, power hungry "gaming" laptops, in order to supply adequate (timely) charging AND operate the laptop at full performance at the same time, the power adapters must be physically big and heavy. "Big and heavy" are not normally desirable traits when talking about "portable" devices. But typical users of such laptops tolerate that - when plugged in.

HOWEVER, these same very high-end, power hungry "gaming" laptops consume lots of power when on battery too. Including a battery capable of supporting this hardware at full performance levels AND provide long battery runtimes would necessitate the use of bigger and heavier batteries. And again, "big and heavy" are not normally desirable traits when talking about "portable" devices.

Clear as mud, huh?
 
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I assume it's just some sort of voltage curve which is than converted to a percentage. I hardly know any device which has a reliable percentage value with a lithium ion battery or similar battery technology.
One of the great mysteries in life is how after all these years they cant get accurate SoC in laptops, since its done in high quality grid and EV batteries all the time, not knowing how much % to within even 10% would be totally unacceptable. I have used some two dozen laptops over the years and the fuel gauge is usually lousy and glitchy, they are terrible as the battery ages and the demand gets large. And in all my off grid lithium systems the battery monitor is very accurate to within 2-3% even after many many cycles. I'm not going to pretend to know even 5% of how laptops are made but i just know keeping track of the SoC is very very easy and its based on first principles and cannot be denied, essentially just coulomb counting, no fancy algorithms as li-ion is very easy as it has a charge efficiency of 99.95%+ and an energy eff of ~95%, so there isnt much excuse. Converting the voltage curve of most lithium ion to a % is very possible and doable due to its very predictable curve, many flashlight enthusiasts use nothing but voltage (open-circuit and closed) to get by, just a a few blinking leds and the accuracy is within 10-15%. But the OP needs to perform a capacit test, until then we are all in the dark.

As an electronics design engineer, I have always been torn between the need to increase battery life by not continuously "over charging" to 100% and the need to reduce the total number of complete charge/discharge cycles. It is my understanding rechargeable batteries have a finite number of full recharge cycles, e.g. 500 cycles, 1000 cycles, etc. The more times you flatten a battery, then recharge it (as in a smartphone?), the sooner you use up all the "lives".
Overcharging is defined as charge/electrons still being "pumped" into the battery once it's fully charged (by holding an elevated constant-voltage ~4.35V+ in li-ion case), unlike other aqueous electrolyte batteries that use electrolysis to absorb that extra charge and just gas a little possible losing water or the O2 gas recombining to prevent water loss, Li-ion has no chemical mechanism to absorb that extra charge, it goes into Lithium plating which means there is a reaction between the anode and electrolyte which builds up a layer on the anode and this layer increases the cell impedance and risks dendrites forming which can cause a soft-short and worse...

Most li-ion that are inside laptops are rated for 300-500cycles to 100%DoD capacity faded to 70-80%. at 1-4C discharge constant-current down to 2.5V and recharge at ~0.5C to 4.2V.
the cells cycle life varies greatly and there is always trad-offs. With all li-ion the cycle life is a direct function of DoD, the chemistry is most reactive at the bottom and top so staying in the window of say 20-80, 30-70 can greatly increase the number of cycles (even if they are smaller), the interesting thing about li-ion is the total amount of energy the cell delivers is greatest in the middle range, even though the cycles are shorter you should get much much more. of course all this assumes high quality brands, cheap stuff all beats are off.
Other Li-ion chemistries like LiFePO4 and Li4Ti5O12 have much higher cycle life at the expense of lower operating voltages and hence lower energy. LTO is like 10,000-40,000 cycles depending on c-rates, DoD, and capacity fade rating.

Why not 12V? Because characteristic of all batteries is rate of charge they take on slows down the closer it gets to fully charged. The closer it gets, the more it slows down. Just like trying to reach the speed of light. Since our rate of acceleration slows down the closer we get to the speed of light, we can never quite reach it (at least not until we learn to break some laws of physics).


As a charger, a low current just means it will take longer to charger the battery (assuming proper voltage). This is why we can use a "trickle" charger on a HUGE car battery. It may take a couple days to charge a fully discharged battery, but it will charge eventually. Try to start the car with a trickle changer, and no luck.
1: No this incorrect and shows a complete lack of understanding on thermodynamics and electrochemistry. There are some chemistries that dont slow down in the charge acceptance rate in all practical terms and in some cases almost literally. They can take high charge right up to 100% full. Sorry, but the last part about reaching the speed of light is complete unscientific rubbish. There is no such thing as the rate of acceleration slows down at the speed of light. We can never quite reach C because the energy needed becomes infinite, matter literally resists and its mass gets bigger and bigger the closer we get to C, it has nothing to do with rate of acceleration. That show's a monumental misunderstanding in high school physics. Please just no.:kookoo:

2: Please define what you mean by "Proper Voltage" Do you understand CV physics and electrochemistry? Do you understand the relation of voltage to resistance and current? and the concept of being current-limited and how you cant speak of a proper voltage.:oops: No we dont just use a trickle charge as that is old school current limited algorithm which again you clearly dont understand chemistry and physics, you dont understand the correct voltage applied to the battery cant be chosen in CC mode.:oops: No it doesnt take a few days to fully charge a lead acid battery, remember, just because you think its true doesnt make it actually true.:oops: It takes ALL lead acid batteries 13-15hours to fully charge, that is the maximum in healthy condition, anymore than that and the battery is significantly sulphated. The modern way to properly charge a car battery is using a current-limited constant-voltage source which the chargers voltage is set to the manufactures reco and that has temperature-compensated charging. This is needed to prevent sulphation, remember all the stuff about chemistry? That way you get a long life out of the battery like 10years +
 
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If this adapter is being used to charge a 19V battery
Of all the dozens of laptops I've repaired with circa 19V DC inputs (sometimes they're specified by the manufacturer as 18V or 19.5V or 20V), none of them had a "19V battery". Instead, the batteries came in a range of lower voltages, usually in multiples of 3.6V or 3.7V, the 'nominal' terminal voltage of an 18650 Lithium cell.

In the days before "flat" laptop batteries became common, back in the days of "19V" power supplies (before USB-C PD) many laptop batteries could be unplugged from the rear, simply by sliding a couple of retaining clips. Inside these battery packs you'd find series/parallel combinations of tagged bog-standard 18650 Lithium cells. I know because I used to replace dead cells with brand new cells.



Laptop battery suppliers used to describe their batteries as 2-cell (2 x 3.6V = 7.2V) or 3-cell (3 x 3.6V = 10.8V), etc. There were also 6-cell batteries, but contrary to what you might expect, these were not always 6 x 3.6V = 20.8V, but instead, pairs of cells were connected in parallel, then in series combinations, giving a nominal 10.8V again.

The voltage of a laptop battery is immaterial. It could be lower or higher than the power supply voltage. For a nominal 10.8V battery, the 19V input is reduced by a "buck converter". If the battery voltage is higher than 19V, the laptop would incorporate a "boost converter".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter

Modern "flat" laptop batteries are similar to old cylindrical batteries, apart from the shape. As @9087125 says (obviously with far more knowledge about Lithium technology than I have), modern Li-ion laptop cells charge up to 4.2V/4.35V, so presumably the terminal voltage of these batteries (2 or more cells) is slightly higher?

I couldn't find a 2-cell flat battery for one laptop repair and the only compatible replacements were listed as 3-cell. At first I thought this was a mistake, surely the laptop would go bang, but then I discovered the laptop could work equally well with 2-cell or 3-cell batteries. I bought a new 3-cell replacement and it worked perfectly. The wonders of DC-to-DC converters.

Just because a laptop is powered by 19V DC (or 20V, or 48V for USB-C PD) does NOT mean the laptop has a 19V battery (or a 20V battery, or a 48V battery).


Now to throw a wrench in the works, batteries always require a charging voltage slightly higher than the battery's voltage rating.
Agreed. There are many different charging technologies, with fast charging being the norm these days.

I've even rejuvenated a small 2V primary battery from a jeep's remote keyfob, by splashing the battery across a 12V car battery for 30 seconds, (don't try this at home), on a 12,000ft mountain pass in the middle of nowhere. It was the only (simple) way to bypass the jeep's ignition immobilizer and restart the engine.

https://electronics.stackexchange.c...rging-a-li-ion-battery-in-35-minutes-possible



If the battery is rated at 19VDC, the charger's output voltage should be slightly higher than 19VDC If not higher, the battery will never fully charge. To illustrate, I just measured the output on the adapter for my MSI laptop, which uses a 19VDC battery. The output voltage is 19.95VDC.
If your laptop's battery is 19V, I'd be very surprised. Check the laptop manufacturer's web page or Amazon/eBay for the spec. of a replacement battery. I bet it's not 19V.

Now, about current. For a "power supply", you can ALWAYs use a supply rated at a higher current value, but never lower.
I choose to differ. Sometimes you CAN use a laptop supply with a lower current rating. I agree you should not run a desktop PC from an ATX PSU with too low a power rating.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I connect my latest laptop (Lenovo) to my old Huawei 65W USB-C PD charger when I can't find the 100W Lenovo PD charger.

Apart from saying I should use a 100W charger if I want faster charging, the Lenovo laptop runs fine off 65W. It just charges more slowly. Restricting the input current to 3.25A maximum with the 65W PSU, instead of 5.00A max with the 100W charger, does not cause "magic smoke" to appear from anything (or perhaps I've been lucky).

The 65W USB-C PD charger outputs 20V at up to 3.25A. 20 x 3.25 = 65W.

The 100W USB-C PD charger outputs 20V at up to 5.00A. 20 x 5.00 = 100W.

It just so happens the USB-C Power Delivery spec for 65W and 100W use the same voltage of 20V.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#PD-R1.0

If I want to measure the USB-C charge current, I plug in a simple USB test meter.
 
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While all this talk of battery and electronics is great, I've discharged and fully charged it back and repeated. Battery seems alright and its just me being padantic, i've changed the power setting in the bios to essentially tell it that it will be plugged in constantly, where as before it was on a custom profile of fixed 80%.
I'll see how it goes.
Thanks for all the feedback.
 
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Just because you never heard of it, that does not make it BS.

Also, that is not what @kurosagi01 said. He said "battery + charger" and that is true for many systems.

On my own MSI, for example, when on battery only, the default "Power Options" for "On battery" cause the display to noticeably dim and the CPU throttles back a little. This is to conserve battery power and increase battery run times. To obtain maximum performance capability, the power supply must be plugged in.
Yeah, and with the previous Alienware laptop I've had, the stupid thing would decide to down-charge the battery a couple times per week to around 10% at some of the most inconvenient times. I would end up having to wait around 20+ minutes for the cpu to go from 50% speed back up to its normal speed due to the battery being below 15%. There wasn't any way to alleviate or prevent it with any of the power management/battery settings either. Never again as I got rid of it after getting a proper desktop. I think part of the problem was my expectation to use it like a mobile desktop(constantly plugged in).
Imo, "high performance/gaming" laptops for my intended purposes are a waste of money until they start building them without the need for a battery to get the full performance(which won't ever happen). Sure, I would have to carry a large brick around with it, but no "battery" issues.
 
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1: No this incorrect and shows a complete lack of understanding on thermodynamics and electrochemistry.
LOL

Did you feel superior now after puffing up your ego by including those disparaging personal remarks along with your disagreement? :rolleyes: :( You couldn't just disagree with the facts presented and explain why in a mature manner like Harlow?

You can follow the link in my sig to see if I might have a "complete" lack of understanding in those areas.

Okay my bad. I should not have said "all" batteries but it is absolutely true about some, such as lead acid batteries. As for Lithium Ion, I note the charging rate does indeed slow down for most devices as they near full charge, including with laptops, cell phone and even EVs, much in part, by design - as explained here, Why Do Smartphones Charge So Much Slower as the Battery Nears Full? And Why Do Electric Cars Charge Slower After 80% Full? (Explained).

Yes, I understand Ohm's Law very well. A charger, regardless if rated at 100A or 100mA, still needs to output a voltage slightly above the battery's voltage rating or else the battery will never become fully charged.

As for the speed of light, we simply said the same thing from different aspects. The faster an object goes, its mass gets bigger. As it gets bigger it slows down UNLESS (as you noted) you apply more energy. Add more energy, it goes faster, gets closer to the speed of light, but again increases in mass requiring even more energy just to maintain that speed. Each time, these recurring cycles of faster speeds/larger mass/increased energy requirements result in smaller and smaller increments in acceleration and therefore AS I SAID, the rate of acceleration slows down and the actual speed of light is never obtained. At least not until warp drive becomes reality.

So, when I said above,
Since our rate of acceleration slows down the closer we get to the speed of light, we can never quite reach it (at least not until we learn to break some laws of physics).
and despite your claim, that is absolutely true - as anyone who really did study high-school physics would know. :rolleyes:

***

For a "power supply", you can ALWAYs use a supply rated at a higher current value, but never lower.

I choose to differ. Sometimes you CAN use a laptop supply with a lower current rating.
:( You took my statement out of context. As a general statement, my assertion is correct. Are there exceptions? Of course, but exceptions don't make the rule, nor do they make the general statement incorrect.

The second sentence in that same paragraph is important. I said,
Now, about current. For a "power supply", you can ALWAYs use a supply rated at a higher current value, but never lower. If lower, the device may try to demand more power than the supply is capable of delivering. Not good.
Okay, my bad. Perhaps just saying "never" was the wrong phrasing as that implies an absolute - no exceptions. You are right and "sometimes" you can - but IMO, it would be unwise because, as I said, the device "may" demand more than the supply can deliver. So I should have used a qualifier and said, "you should never use a lower value current rating". But please note I further explained why you should not go smaller by stating,
it MUST have a current capability to support charging AND operate the laptop at the same time.
If the supply is ONLY being used to operate the laptop and is NOT also being used to charge a discharged battery too, then sure, a smaller (if not too small) power supply will "probably" work without issues - assuming the correct voltage. But one really should have a good understanding of the actual power requirements before using a lower capacity (underpowered) supply. Yes, with the right gearing, you can probably tow a 40 foot, 20,000 pound trailer with a Honda, but should you? Would you worry about overheating, sufficient braking, and other stresses? I hope so.

If your laptop came with a 100W supply, I would be very leery, and advise against the use of a 65W supply. 35% less capacity is a lot. Running just the laptop "may" be okay, but I would make sure the battery has been removed first. If lucky, at worse the laptop would just crash and recover fully upon booting with a suitable supply. But if unlucky a crash could result in file corruption, or perhaps worse. I would also pay close attention to the temperature of the power block to make sure it has lots of ventilation to avoid it getting too hot.

none of them had a "19V battery". Instead, the batteries came in a range of lower voltages, usually in multiples of 3.6V or 3.7V, the 'nominal' terminal voltage of an 18650 Lithium cell.
Now wait! There may be a misunderstanding for some reading here between the definition of a "cell" and a "battery". The words are often used interchangeably but do not always mean the same.

Harlow is absolutely correct about the way designers strap cells to make "a" (as in 1) battery of the desired voltage and current capability.

My bad again for not being more detailed. Frankly, I didn't want to get too tangled up in unnecessary complexity and detail I feel is not really needed (or even appropriate) for this thread. My post was already getting too long.

Anyway, to add and illustrate, if you take a single, standard AA battery, that is indeed a "battery". A (as in one) 1.5V battery.

But what if your flashlight, for example, requires 4 AA batteries, arranged in series? Now that single AA battery becomes a "cell" - 1 of 4 cells that make up a single 6V battery. When arranged in series, the voltages add, but the capacity remains the same.

If you take those same 4 individual AA batteries and arrange (strap) them all in parallel, you end up a single 1.5V battery (of 4 cells) but now the capacity increases.

If you take those 4 individual batteries, and strap two pairs in parallel, and then the strapped pairs in series you have one 3V battery, made up of 4 cells.

A single Li-Ion battery is made up of multiple individual cells in the same manner. They are strapped in various series, parallel and series-parallel configurations until they total the desired voltage and current capability the designers are seeking.

I note the Tesla Model 2 battery contains 7,104 cells!

Having said all that, my point remains the same. Regardless the type and how the individual "cells" are arranged, the end result for the "battery" is what matters. The charger's output voltage should be rated for the voltage of the battery. If the laptop came with a 19V charger, a 10.5V charger would NOT be a suitable replacement for that battery. Nor would a 24V charger.

Now - to complicate matters, as I noted above, there is a difference in the functions of a computer power supply (even those for laptops) and a laptop battery charger - even when the same devices as the supply. Do note that the RAM, drives, CPUs, GPUs, fans, USB ports, etc. in laptops operate with the same voltages as those used in PCs. So within the laptop, the voltages are split and divided into standard voltages, typically +5 and +12, and then again to lower voltages.

So while the battery may be designed for 19V, the laptop (the computer) itself may be designed to operate with a different voltage, say a 16V power supply, or even a range of inputs and the laptop's power circuits deal with the distribution accordingly. I just have not seen a laptop where the manufacturer's specs state a range of power supply voltages. But just because I have not, that does not mean they don't exist.
 

qxp

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Dell has a problem with batteries. Long time ago the batteries were rock solid and covered by warranty. Several years back they hit some sort of problem when a lot of batteries failed. I know because my battery puffed up and moved touchpad to the point I could not close the notebook and have it go to sleep.

The annoying thing is that my notebook (precision mobile workstation) was on the next business day onsite warranty and Dell instead said they are out of parts and expect the replacement battery next month. I went and ordered a spare china made battery off the Amazon and that worked until replacement arrived. Next time I went to buy the notebook Dell refused to offer warranty on the battery *AND* refused to say when spares become available.

So I would suggest to check for physical changes to the battery, and check for prices on Amazon for a spare. Note that spare quality can vary - some spares are just as good as Dell, some work for a while and then suddently cuttoff. I really wish we were back to old-style battery packs that you can swap. Maybe someone will come up with DeWalt -> Dell battery adapter ;) Then your next drill can be a railgun.
 
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The battery charger does not connect directly to the battery. Nor does it connect directly to any other part of the laptop.
A 19v charger does to charge a 18v battery. Each battery cell is usually charged individually up to around 4.2v, not in series as a lump sum.
The 19v charger connects directly first to a buck converter, and the charger's output voltage only needs to stay high enough to satisfy the buck converter's requirements while allowing the buck converter to operate in a safe and efficient range.
All this talk about old-fashion series battery charge voltage is silly.
 
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So I have had my Alienware X16 R1 for just over a year, from day 1 I had limited the battery charge to 80% for battery longevity sake and the laptop is plugged in at all time when i'm at my desk or chilling in the living room.
As we know high end laptop GPU requires battery + charger to hit its target TDP, i've noticed the laptop doesn't charge to 80% now but hovers and holds charge around 70%. It used to charge all the way and holds around 75-79% while gaming or browsing the web, but as mentioned it now stays around 70% no matter what.
Is this battery degrading or a potential charger issue?
My laptop doesnt need the battery and power supply to hit its 175w max rating, my laptop has a 4080 laptop version. What the power supply rated at?
 

eidairaman1

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Ok just attempt to do a battery calibration per instructions from dell/video on your particular mobile and see if that resolves it
 
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