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Legality of TPU Hosting DLSS DLLs

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Aquinus

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Aww, how adorable. You assume I care about your feelings. I do not. And for context, there is a difference between calling a behavior "hooliganism" and directly calling someone a "hooligan". The difference is subtle, but distinct. Seems you failed to pick up on that.. Very interesting indeed.
At least I have beliefs. You apparently have none.
Irony. Clearly you are paying attention.
Jesus. Here we go again.

The only 'evidence' you provided were excerpts from How to Practice Law by Rudy Giuliani.
Does Rudy know how to use the internet?
 
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Does Rudy know how to use the internet?
Apparently, and he knows how to post here. Strange avatar though.

Must have have confused it for LandscapePowerUp
 

Aquinus

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Apparently, and he knows how to post here. Strange avatar though.

Must have have confused it for LandscapePowerUp
I guess that even Rudy knows how to use Google. :roll:
 
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I guess that even Rudy knows how to use Google. :roll:
Strange considering a little google would have helped him out several times lately.
 

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:shadedshu:

Disappointing.

We're choosing to leave this topic open so you guys can discuss hosting DLSS DLL's, how you feel about that, vent, express, even have some constructive debates with those whom you disagree, not to be petty and toxic towards each other.

Frankly, its very sad and disappointing to see senior members act this way, and is one of the reasons we end up having to close these topics. This is NOT how you make this community better. There's plenty of other places you can go to hate on others, don't bring that to TPU's doorstep, please. We don't come shit on your doorstep, stop doing it here ffs.

That being said, get back on topic, drop the petty BS, or move along, and find something productive & constructive to do here. If that's seemingly too hard and you choose to persist, do yourself a favor and stay out of this topic starting now to avoid any future interactions with moderation.

Thanks.
 
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At this point I am starting to think that even people at nVidia may be getting a bit annoyed by all this.
nVidia can do without negative publicity being generated, which may affect them.
They didn't ask for this discussion. They have their imago to worry about. Remember the "Hardware Unboxed" debacle?

Maybe they just ought to make the DLSS DLLs available themselves for download to the public to end this.
But after time, these downloads tend to vanish. That's why it is a good idea for them to be aggregated at a techsite like TPU, just as with the graphics drivers.
 
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burntruers

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Alright, I'm going to try and speak in a manner somewhat belying the fact that I've made an account here specifically to point out how dumb some of the ideas expressed in this thread are - please bear with me.

Working as a software developer may give you some insight into software licensing that others do not gain through their occupation. It may also give you an inflated sense of understanding of IP law relating to software, possibly to the extent that you would talk down to people that disagree with your warped perspective, maybe even to such a degree that you end up cultivating 25 pages of pure, hellacious suffering in the guise of a discussion on a forum.

There is simply no way that the mere possession of a DLSS binary would cause whoever holds it to be subject to the terms of the license agreement for the SDK used to create it. We could get into the weeds of why these terms do or do not automatically apply within the associated legal framework, but that's not actually necessary. Any person of reasonable intelligence and common sense would be able to imagine dozens of absurd hypothetical situations that would become possible if this were actually how these license agreements worked, and the statement that this is how they do work is indeed an extraordinary claim.

Anyone who wishes to make such an extraordinary claim regarding the technicalities of a particular aspect of IP law is, of course, free to do so in the setting of a casual discussion, but given how totally absurd it is, the burden of proof would surely lie with them. If I were going to put myself in that position, I'd want to make sure that I was actually a lawyer.

For the sake of my mental well-being, I've chosen not to diligently pore over all 25 pages of the thread to check if this point has come up already, but can I please state the extremely obvious? This being that the DLL file is completely useless unless deployed alongside a game or software application with a functioning DLSS implementation, along with compatible NVIDIA hardware? Further, that any piece of software that could possibly make use of this binary was already shipped to the end user with an equivalent binary?

Honestly, I normally would just read this and move on, but the idea that somebody would:

1. Seek out a non-existent problem,
2. Talk down to people that rightly tell them that the problem doesn't exist,
3. Report the gracious hosts of the community they're a part of to a powerful mega-corporation with the hopes of causing those hosts legal issues,
4. Upon realising that they were wrong the entire time, choose not to apologise nor admit that they were incorrect and have behaved inappropriately, but instead seek to moralise their actions, claiming that regardless of their failure to achieve their fundamentally corrupt goals, the overall exercise still served a higher purpose in educating regular people about the plight of software developers and their various responsibilities -

With all due respect, Aquinus.. take the piss. Take the absolute piss.

J
 
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Mussels

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Alright, I'm going to try and speak in a manner somewhat belying of the fact that I've made an account here specifically to point out how dumb some of the ideas expressed in this thread are - please bear with me.

Working as a software developer may give you some insight into software licensing that others do not gain through their occupation. It may also give you an inflated sense of understanding of IP law relating to software, possibly to the extent that you would talk down to people that disagree with your warped perspective, maybe even to such a degree that you end up cultivating 25 pages of pure, hellacious suffering in the guise of a discussion on a forum.

There is simply no way that the mere possession of a DLSS binary would cause whoever holds it to be subject to the terms of the license agreement for the SDK used to create it. We could get into the weeds of why these terms do or do not automatically apply within the associated legal framework, but that's not actually necessary. Any person of reasonable intelligence and common sense would be able to imagine dozens of absurd hypothetical situations that would become possible if this were actually how these license agreements worked, and the statement that this is how they do work is indeed an extraordinary claim.

Anyone who wishes to make such an extraordinary claim regarding the technicalities of a particular aspect of IP law is, of course, free to do so in the setting of a casual discussion, but given how totally absurd it is, the burden of proof would surely lie with them. If I were going to put myself in that position, I'd want to make sure that I was actually a lawyer.

For the sake of my mental well-being, I've chosen not to diligently pore over all 25 pages of the thread to check if this point has come up already, but can I please state the extremely obvious? This being that the DLL file is completely useless unless deployed alongside a game or software application with a functioning DLSS implementation, along with compatible NVIDIA hardware? Further, that any piece of software that could possibly make use of this binary was already shipped to the end user with an equivalent binary?

Honestly, I normally would just read this and move on, but the idea that somebody would:

1. Seek out a non-existent problem,
2. Talk down to people that rightly tell them that the problem doesn't exist,
3. Report the gracious hosts of the community they're a part of to a powerful mega-corporation with the hopes of causing those hosts legal issues,
4. Upon realising that they were wrong the entire time, choose not to apologise nor admit that they were incorrect and have behaved inappropriately, but instead seek to moralise their actions, claiming that regardless of their failure to achieve their fundamentally corrupt goals, the overall exercise still served a higher purpose in educating regular people about the plight of software developers and their various responsibilities -

With all due respect, Aquinus.. take the piss. Take the absolute piss.

J
Yes, the bolded part was brought up by myself and others, as well as alluding to the fact we do this with GPU BIOS storage and crossflashing, for i believe well over a decade with no issue.
Nvidia just released an SDK for DLSS open to all, as well.
 
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At this point I am starting to think that even people at nVidia may be getting a bit annoyed by all this.
nVidia can do without negative publicity being generated, which may affect them.
They didn't ask for this discussion. They have their imago to worry about. Remember the "Hardware Unboxed" debacle?
I don't think NVidia cares. Would bet money on it. Why would they? This is brand exposure, be it brimming with unpleasantness, that does not cast a poor light on them directly or indirectly. This doesn't even look bad for TPU or W1zzard. The only people that look bad are those doing the shoveling...

Maybe they just ought to make the DLSS DLLs available themselves for download to the public to end this.
But they have. The DLLs in question can be readily downloaded from NVidia. That's the whole point of this thread. Certain users think that mixing and matching DLLs is somehow wrong or unlawful, which is total nonsense. The DLLs in question literally and functionally can not be used outside of the context of their intended purpose, so at no point is NVidia being harmed, cheated or even lightly inconvenienced. Their rights are not only perfectly intact, but are actively being protected directly because of how the DLLs are used.

But after time, these downloads tend to vanish. That's why it is a good idea for them to be aggregated at a techsite like TPU, just as with the graphics drivers.
Exactly, and NVidia knows this. TPU isn't the only site that mirrors or hosts downloads for NVidia. These particular users are claiming that such violates NVidia's rights and that they've made reports based on a supposed "contractual obligations" which is meritless monkey-poo in it's own right.

Alright, I'm going to try and speak in a manner somewhat belying of the fact that I've made an account here specifically to point out how dumb some of the ideas expressed in this thread are - please bear with me.

Working as a software developer may give you some insight into software licensing that others do not gain through their occupation. It may also give you an inflated sense of understanding of IP law relating to software, possibly to the extent that you would talk down to people that disagree with your warped perspective, maybe even to such a degree that you end up cultivating 25 pages of pure, hellacious suffering in the guise of a discussion on a forum.

There is simply no way that the mere possession of a DLSS binary would cause whoever holds it to be subject to the terms of the license agreement for the SDK used to create it. We could get into the weeds of why these terms do or do not automatically apply within the associated legal framework, but that's not actually necessary. Any person of reasonable intelligence and common sense would be able to imagine dozens of absurd hypothetical situations that would become possible if this were actually how these license agreements worked, and the statement that this is how they do work is indeed an extraordinary claim.

Anyone who wishes to make such an extraordinary claim regarding the technicalities of a particular aspect of IP law is, of course, free to do so in the setting of a casual discussion, but given how totally absurd it is, the burden of proof would surely lie with them. If I were going to put myself in that position, I'd want to make sure that I was actually a lawyer.

For the sake of my mental well-being, I've chosen not to diligently pore over all 25 pages of the thread to check if this point has come up already, but can I please state the extremely obvious? This being that the DLL file is completely useless unless deployed alongside a game or software application with a functioning DLSS implementation, along with compatible NVIDIA hardware? Further, that any piece of software that could possibly make use of this binary was already shipped to the end user with an equivalent binary?

Honestly, I normally would just read this and move on, but the idea that somebody would:

1. Seek out a non-existent problem,
2. Talk down to people that rightly tell them that the problem doesn't exist,
3. Report the gracious hosts of the community they're a part of to a powerful mega-corporation with the hopes of causing those hosts legal issues,
4. Upon realising that they were wrong the entire time, choose not to apologise nor admit that they were incorrect and have behaved inappropriately, but instead seek to moralise their actions, claiming that regardless of their failure to achieve their fundamentally corrupt goals, the overall exercise still served a higher purpose in educating regular people about the plight of software developers and their various responsibilities -

With all due respect, Aquinus.. take the piss. Take the absolute piss.

J
Well said!

And Welcome to TPU!
 
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All I'll say is they didn't outright tell Aquinus that they didn't care. So they either blew him off in a rather shitty way or they actually put some thought into it.
 
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Still haven't talked with an attorney then eh
I would be embarassed bringing that summary you provided up with one. And I do have access. But not if I bug them with crap like this.

Does Rudy know how to use the internet?
He is at least capaple of operating as some sort of "buttdial modem" I think.
 
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We are almost a month into this debate
I can't be bothered to read all 25 pages of this
but surely nvidea would have released some statement by now
For the record, I think that the dlls are perfectly fine as you can get certain dlls all over the internet
 
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We are almost a month into this debate
I can't be bothered to read all 25 pages of this
but surely nvidea would have released some statement by now
For the record, I think that the dlls are perfectly fine as you can get certain dlls all over the internet
I don't disagree they probably don't care. But that ultimately isn't what the thread turned into.
 
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I don't disagree they probably don't care. But that ultimately isn't what the thread turned into.
cant that be taken as its fine to keep the files up and is completely legal
cause you can bet your dollar is a company thinks something is being stolen they will DMCA that shiz
 
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We are almost a month into this debate
I can't be bothered to read all 25 pages of this
but surely nvidea would have released some statement by now
For the record, I think that the dlls are perfectly fine as you can get certain dlls all over the internet
They didn't need to issue a statement.

The first step likely would have been an DMCA takedown notice directly and privately communicated to the TPU operator(s). TPU would have the choice to comply or ignore this DMCA request.

The next step would like be a cease-or-desist order from Nvidia's legal team (likely not advertised) followed by an escalation of increasingly publicly visible interaction.

None of that has happened. Since the DLSS files are still available it is likely that Nvidia never sent TPU any sort of takedown request.

We have been through this before in this discussion.

There is zero evidence that Nvidia had any issue with TPU hosting the DLSS dlls. After all, TPU hosts a variety of other Nvidia binaries (like device drivers and software utilities).

I'm sure five pages from now, I will be posting the same thing to others who still haven't figured this out.
 
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I would be embarrassed bringing that summary you provided up with one. And I do have access. But not if I bug them with crap like this.
Yes, that is the right word.
 
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cant that be taken as its fine to keep the files up and is completely legal
cause you can bet your dollar is a company thinks something is being stolen they will DMCA that shiz
Fine to keep up and completely legal aren't the same thing. I doubt Nvidia cares. But that doesn't mean it is or isn't legal.

Yes, that is the right word.
I'm glad we all see eye to eye that Rudy's Paper Napkin book of law doesn't fly here.
 
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Fine to keep up and completely legal aren't the same thing. I doubt Nvidia cares. But that doesn't mean it is or isn't legal.
If they dont care its legal
if it was illegal they would care

I'm sure five pages from now, I will be posting the same thing to others who still haven't figured this out.
yeh i know right when they leave things alone this long its probably legal I feel like if they take out the bioses hosted on the site also
 
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qubit

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Q? Is that you?
Me? I have no idea what you're referring to. Apologies if you meant someone else.

Alright, I'm going to try and speak in a manner somewhat belying of the fact that I've made an account here specifically to point out how dumb some of the ideas expressed in this thread are - please bear with me.

Working as a software developer may give you some insight into software licensing that others do not gain through their occupation. It may also give you an inflated sense of understanding of IP law relating to software, possibly to the extent that you would talk down to people that disagree with your warped perspective, maybe even to such a degree that you end up cultivating 25 pages of pure, hellacious suffering in the guise of a discussion on a forum.

There is simply no way that the mere possession of a DLSS binary would cause whoever holds it to be subject to the terms of the license agreement for the SDK used to create it. We could get into the weeds of why these terms do or do not automatically apply within the associated legal framework, but that's not actually necessary. Any person of reasonable intelligence and common sense would be able to imagine dozens of absurd hypothetical situations that would become possible if this were actually how these license agreements worked, and the statement that this is how they do work is indeed an extraordinary claim.

Anyone who wishes to make such an extraordinary claim regarding the technicalities of a particular aspect of IP law is, of course, free to do so in the setting of a casual discussion, but given how totally absurd it is, the burden of proof would surely lie with them. If I were going to put myself in that position, I'd want to make sure that I was actually a lawyer.

For the sake of my mental well-being, I've chosen not to diligently pore over all 25 pages of the thread to check if this point has come up already, but can I please state the extremely obvious? This being that the DLL file is completely useless unless deployed alongside a game or software application with a functioning DLSS implementation, along with compatible NVIDIA hardware? Further, that any piece of software that could possibly make use of this binary was already shipped to the end user with an equivalent binary?

Honestly, I normally would just read this and move on, but the idea that somebody would:

1. Seek out a non-existent problem,
2. Talk down to people that rightly tell them that the problem doesn't exist,
3. Report the gracious hosts of the community they're a part of to a powerful mega-corporation with the hopes of causing those hosts legal issues,
4. Upon realising that they were wrong the entire time, choose not to apologise nor admit that they were incorrect and have behaved inappropriately, but instead seek to moralise their actions, claiming that regardless of their failure to achieve their fundamentally corrupt goals, the overall exercise still served a higher purpose in educating regular people about the plight of software developers and their various responsibilities -

With all due respect, Aquinus.. take the piss. Take the absolute piss.

J
So. Well. Said. What a great first post on TPU. Hopefully, it won't be your last one, either.

I have an outsized bag of premium popcorn I can share with you, if you like? :D

And welcome to TPU. :) Seriously, not all conversations are like this on here.

We're choosing to leave this topic open so you guys can discuss hosting DLSS DLL's, how you feel about that, vent, express, even have some constructive debates with those whom you disagree, not to be petty and toxic towards each other
Indeed, I do wonder why people get so toxic on forums - TPU is hardly the only one; it's endemic.

Even on something like Facebook where one isn't anonymous and often has their real face as their avatar they have a go like this. Perhaps it's because they're not physically next to the person that they're insulting and thus have nothing to fear about being thumped by them, ie violence? I can't think of a better reason.
 
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Me? I have no idea what you're referring to. Apologies if you meant someone else.
No, he meant me. It was a barely cohesive attempt at being clever.
 
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I have read the accompanying SDK licence agreement and nowhere is stated that nVidia will refund the postage stamp if ever you feel compelled to write them. What kind of agreement is that.
 
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i do belive this is the first time we have met an agreement on these forums
Fair enough. When you're right, you're right. Your summary was excellent!
 
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I have read the accompanying SDK licence agreement and nowhere is stated that nVidia will refund the postage stamp if ever you feel compelled to write them. What kind of agreement is that.
Who the hell would use the postal service is the better question...

That is an excellent summary!

That's not how the law works at all. But it is the practicalities of the matter and as I think no one really cares anymore, I too vote this be closed. This thread has become an attempt to mock any legitimate attempt to understand, and as it doesn't matter anymore why keep it?

@W1zzard, for the love of god man make it stop.
 
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