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Lessons learned (dumb people OCing) :)

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Aenra, May 13, 2017.

  1. Aenra

    Aenra

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    Don't change the strap. Period.

    Significantly affects core, RAM frequency and RAM timings walls.
    Yes, some of you knew that, i had to learn it myself, lol

    Before (1.25x, 100.04 clock):
    4500MHz core
    3250MHz uncore
    3250MHz RAM 14cas, 2T

    Now (1.00x, 100.04 clock):
    4500MHz core
    3600MHz uncore
    3400MHz RAM 16cas, 1T

    The difference is actually felt. Like i did some mini-upgrade somewhere; noticeable in even the smallest things.
    Very happy i bothered to redo it all from scratch :)

    Downsides?
    Takes more voltage to reach the same vcore:
    1.365v @1.25x
    1.395v @1.00x

    Note here that this only applies for vcore. As should be evident from above, it takes significantly less voltage for both uncore and RAM, hence the higher end results.
    (to give an example, it was impossible to go higher than 3250 uncore, even at 1.35v cache, which is a huge no, you're supposed to call it a day at 1.30v. With the default strap, i needed 1.255 to reach 3600, lol, nice and stable. Likewise with RAM. Turns out it wasn't stable, that 1T with 32gigs and my IMC was impossible. Now i got it 100% stable, 1T and a 150MHz higher frequency, exact same voltage as before, 1.43)

    As stated, very happy :)
     
  2. OneMoar

    OneMoar There is Always Moar

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    NSS
     
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  3. TheGuruStud

    TheGuruStud

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    Are you telling me that you got a chip WORSE than haswell? B/c mine is a piece of crap (granted 4 core), but I have 4 ghz uncore at 1.21V. Are the 8 cores just that rough at OCing?

    I don't even want to know the amount of heat coming out of that puppy LOL
     
  4. Aenra

    Aenra

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    @OneMoar just so, lol. But you know how it goes, if you don't do it yourself..

    As to Guru's post?
    When under Prime stress testing, i get 71C tops. Had to increase the cooling for these specs of course; pump is now in performance mode, Noctuas are manually set at a constant 65%
    (note here that i'm in the South, it's warm, i'm in a refurbished cellar [even warmer], which is tiny and lacks natural A/C [ever worse])

    In regard to the chip.. not sure whom i'm talking to, but i assume i can always be polite :)
    We get what we get in life. I didn't buy a binned one from SiliconLottery, i just ordered one like normal folks do. I'm happy i can have a stable 4.5GHz, which for these chips isn't exactly average, on the contrary, i am happy i can have that below 1.4v, which for these chips isn't exactly average or what the buyer should expect; on the contrary. Not sure where you got the "worse than Haswell" part, but like i said, not sure whom i'm talking to.

    I hope that satisfies you, i honestly cannot do better. When you buy one yourself and assuming it's better, you are welcome to let everyone know.
     
  5. TheGuruStud

    TheGuruStud

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    I'm not bashing at all. I think that's a very good OC for 8 core. I just figured it shouldn't take so much vcore to get the uncore up a little and it hits a hard wall. Very touchy for sure.
     
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  6. Aenra

    Aenra

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    My bad. Been cleaning the house, i hate that. With an effing vengeance, lol (she's lazy, the dog.. is a dog, ergo the house is shit unless i do it myself).. so yeah, the mood wasn't right, my apologies :)

    As to vcore, my understanding is that good chips need around 1.35ish?
    edit: not so sure about the cache, have seen 3700MHz, some dude name DJgar or something in overclock.net/f, but if you look at his ring voltage, you'll understand, lol.. am not going to fry the chip, 3600 is fine
     
  7. cat1092

    cat1092

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    I OC'd my i5-4690K a chip designed to run at 3.5GHz with 3.9Ghz Turbo all the way up to 4.4Ghz (matched my i7-4790K), synced all cores at 44 & bumped the cache up from 39 (I presume the stock Turbo) to 40, although used the ASUS auto settings in the UEFI, while the performance was great, the vcore also was above 1.3V, so backed off, now running again with the ASUS EZ Tune for now.:)

    Overclocking is a form of art, especially doing things the manual way (the best), no way is the UEFI always going to optimize every setting perfect, so until I learn a bit more, will go with the EZ mode. Hopefully I can gain some knowledge from the members here, the Tech Forum where I serve as an Advisor doesn't have a huge OC loyal following like on TPU. Seems like many are afraid to 'push' their hardware, and some prominent members discourages the practice.:(

    In some situations, I can agree, however if the person has several computers, with unlocked CPU's on a few, what's the point in having these if can't bump up the clocks? While 4.0GHz at stock is higher than any Haswell quad (i7-4790K), on a Noctua NH-D15 cooler, don't see what's wrong with 4.4GHz, especially considering I done the same with it's little brother.:D

    What I didn't want to do, was kill the new chip & who knows what else with too high vcore. Both systems has the same type & quantity of RAM, shown in my system specs of my main PC, and runs at XMP Profile #1 (2400MHz).

    Cat
     
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  8. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    MY 6950Xs won't even reach 3700 with sane voltages. Yes this is normal for the 8 and 10 core CPUs.

    that what happens when you double cache size (or in the case of the 6950X, more than than triple (8mb on 1150 i7, vs 25MB on 6950X)
     
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  9. Aenra

    Aenra

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    @cat1092 your best bet is overclock.net/f
    Make an account (you cannot see everything as guest and you'll want that, half the info is people's sigs, yes, i mean this, you'll understand), log in, find the thread for your CPU and start reading; they also have an excellent in-thread searching function, which will come very handy :)

    I wasted my first 4,5 days? Just googleing around, didn't help much; one kid saying what the next kid was told from that other dude who said... you get the idea. Wasted another 2 days reading a 1000+ page thread on my CPU and barring questions i'll never have answered, anywhere, i was all set. Had i been even more patient, half the posts i've made here would never have existed, lol

    @cadaveca How much does it take for 3700? And on what motherboard?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
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  10. RejZoR

    RejZoR

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    People so quickly forget that when you're overclocking larger CPU's, things kinda go very different than with tiny quad cores. The hexa cores kinda being the last exception and even that heavily depends on luck. For example 5820K and 6800K generally go pretty easily up to 4.4 or 4.5GHz. Where anything with 8 cores seems to clock far worse and demand higher voltages.

    This was also confirmed after all the outrage why R7 1800X doesn't overclock past 4 GHz much. It's a freaking 8 core with 16 threads. 20 thread Xeons don't run at only 2 GHz or even less for no reason.
     
    10 Year Member at TPU
  11. cat1092

    cat1092

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    Thanks Aenra!:)

    By chance I happen to have an account at Overclock.net, where not too long back & reviewed a few CPU's, to include my now ancient, yet still powerful (especially on the right Socket 775 DDR3 MB) Intel 2 Quad 9650, released just before the Intel Core 'i' series. Also reviewed the i7-4790K, but didn't bother with it's 'little brother', the 4690K. May check out the 'Buy, Sell & Trade' section once I develop a reputation here to find a decent DDR3 Socket 775 MB for that Q9650, which by chance is also unlocked, yet in reality, is locked due to being in the Dell Optiplex 780 DT edition (not the mid-tower, just a bit larger than the SFF model). With 16GB of DDR3 RAM, is fast as is, feel it's a waste in that PC. Have a low profile SATA-3 card, yet had to make a choice, a GPU or the other, the onboard graphics are at best, crappy.:D

    While I like what I see here in the TPU Community as a whole, an open to another for specific needs, although not my cup of tea for an everyday Tech Forum. While I know how to build a PC & maintain these, don't 'know it all', some of the members there may as well have a ball cap of T-Shirt on stating they're perfect. On the other hand, I see that site as a specialist one, just hope that I can find someone to guide me w/out being arrogant/harsh while doing so.:)
    Again, very much appreciate your advise & am glad I raised the question at the right time. You're the only one who has led me anywhere in this regard.:toast:

    Cat
     
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  12. infrared

    infrared Moderator Staff Member

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    Welcome Cat! Sounds like you've been having fun getting into this. I find it really disappointing to hear people are actively discouraging overclocking! Provided you seek out advice when you're learning it's pretty safe, in my experience it's pretty hard to kill a cpu, and you wouldn't do any harm if you stop at a safe voltage which is exaclty what you've done. :)

    To be honest I think you were doing well with your manual overclocking, you're definitely headed in the right direction. You're using safe voltage (edit: actually on the high side, see edit at bottom) so from there you just need to nudge up the overclock a bit at a time while checking stability between changes. Do each part separately, so if you leave the uncore and ram until last, first do the core, and test with ROG Real Bench, Aida stability test, prime95 (small or mixed test), or intelburntest. (P95 and intelburntest would require you keep a close eye on temps, although you should be absolutely fine with that cooler!)... So basically you want to get it in the ballpark so don't test for ages initially, just set it to 4.5 (if 4.4 is stable?), run some quick tests and if it doesn't blue screen or flag up an error during stability testing, restart and boot at 4.6ghz.. once you get an error you have two choices, if temps are good you could maybe add a bit of voltage, 1.30v (edit: see bottom) would be fine with a good cooler, or drop back down 1 multiplier and test for longer. If you want to spend loads of time tweaking you could lower the cpu voltage a bit at a time here, but there shouldn't be a lot of excess voltage if you were getting errors at +100mhz.. Ok, now before moving onto ram/uncore, drop the core down 1 multiplier to guarantee that any errors are because of ram/uncore and not an error caused by the cpu cores. Once you've finished tweaking uncore and ram bring it all together and re-test and in theory it should be good.

    Setting the ram is a similar process, but you would be ok just setting the voltage and timings as per the ram's rating which should run fine. You could test in windows with our grand leader, w1zzard's tool, memtest64, just to double check it's all fine before moving on.
    If you wanted to overclock the ram you'd want to get memtest86+ on a bootable usb stick, this test is extremely thorough, but has the added benefit that if you set the ram too high and it's unstable, it's not going to corrupt anything on the hard drive. If you pass that you can be almost certain your ram is stable. (to speed things up, go to test 7 and do a few of these 1-2minute passes to get in the ballpark quickly, (c-1-3-7-enter-0) to get there, and when you have found errors and bought it back down then start letting it do full passes, this takes about half an hour per pass so be ready with something else to do! Basically you're doing the same as with the cpu, set the timings and voltage manually to what the modules are rated for, (or even tighten timings if you want but this is slightly more advanced and something you can learn about later.) The ram dividers are quite coarse so you'll go to far and find errors quickly, slightly more voltage or looser timings are ways you could stabilize it, or drop the speed down to the previous divider and test more thoroughly. No errors in memtest86+ after 5 or more passes and you should be golden.

    Once cpu and ram is set you can up the uncore, You'd want to use memtest64 and rog realbench, prime95 large fft's for this. Same thing, nudge it up, test, lower when it spits out errors, test more.

    Anyway, that's kind of a generic process really, each platform has it's own quirks and weird settings, I've never owned a Z97 set up so I found a guide using your motherboard by der8auer: http://overclocking.guide/asus-z97-pro-gamer/

    I might move your post into it's own thread, then we can discuss your particular system until the cows come home. Shoot me a PM if you want that, otherwise it's ok here. :)


    EDIT: It has to be stressed that I don't own that platform so my advice was based on what I'm reading myself. I've adjusted my post to say 1.3v max 24.7, but it's a personal decision how hard you want to run your hardware. Efficient and best longevity, or just extracting max performance.
    In my personal experience I've abused a lot of intel cpu's way beyond what I'd ever think of recommending to a user here. They were all fine and became obsolete before I could finish them, so based on that and the fact I'm spoilt for cooling my posts are a bit biased and I'll try to be more careful handing out max-oc seeking advice.

    Never trusting advice from strangers online is a good tip from Aenra, but they we all did it when we googled the values for our own systems.. it only takes a moment to search out these values online, and your own decision to use the information you find, or more like filtering out bad info but that depends on your level of experience I guess..

    Obviously this is at your own risk yadda yadda (i'm terrible with disclaimers). And apologies for all the edits :slap:
     
    10 Year Member at TPU Crunching for Team TPU
  13. cadaveca

    cadaveca My name is Dave

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    1.35V, and on any motherboard I've tried (keeping in mind that I review motherboards). I have one retail 6950X and one ES, and they both have the same basic limit. Keeping that large cache at high speeds ain't easy.
     
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  14. Aenra

    Aenra

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    @cat1092 you're welcome dude. As to what you implied, regarding attitudes, it's all relative. I would explain, but i fear derailing or censorship, so will not.
    But like i said, the goal is reading, not communicating. Leave that for emergencies and you'll be O.K. :)

    Examples:
    - in a very "famous" forum related to this, user asks if SA of +0.395 is O.K. They told him sure. Five pages later, i've yet to see anyone correct that.. if the dude hasn't degraded his chip already, he sure will. Goodbye 1200 bucks.
    - in a different venue, there is a person very "knowledgeable" about everything and with the attitude to match. On surface level, great advice too. Except you later on find out he is the same person that was running 2 Atis on a 500W PSU.
    - in yet again a different venue, also one you're meant to look for "answers", someone stated emphatically that 1.55v core for an R7 is perfectly safe for 24/7

    Could go on..
    Read and trust no one, ask only when you're desperate :)
     
  15. RejZoR

    RejZoR

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    I've been overclocking for well over a decade and every time I change platform it's learning from scratch. Sure you know the basics, but every platform has some stupid specifics you have to watch out and unless someone always tells you watch out for this, this and that every time, it's not that easy.

    And I didn't give a damn when I was overclocking my Core 2 Duo E5200 to its limits when it was like 75€. Even if I'd fry it, it's nothing. But frying a 400€ 5820K, that's not something I could accept so easily and that's when even people who know quite a bit about OC ask "stupid" questions just to be sure.
     
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  16. ahujet

    ahujet

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    I would rather take lower vcore with 125 strap than higher vcore with 100 strap, do you really care all that much about uncore?
     
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  17. Aenra

    Aenra

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    Nah.
    Cache alone, i guess i'd have stuck to 125, but it's the RAM too; 150 higher frequency, plus it's on 1T now. Again small change of course, but like i said, altogether? Noticeable difference.
    Small mind, but enough to be noticeable, so i kept it.

    If it lasts me three years, i'm good with it. I think it's a reasonable expectation, am still below 1.4. If it doesn't? Too bad i guess :)
     
  18. Aenra

    Aenra

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    (on to memory but as always, dumb people [myself] OCing)

    I never bother with benchmarks, but this time it's worth an upload. Look at the difference, same exact voltage needed for either of these:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Look at the write speed variation..
     

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