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Linus Has Some Things to Say about Core i9 and X299

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Nooo no no.. not that easy, not with me.

It's --your-- fault if you rushed, it's ---your--- fault for rushing and having expectations. Entirely yours.
(yours as in figuratively, am uninterested in targetting individuals)

Also, again.. this doesn't work with me. You paint the full picture, or quote me not. May i? :)

- People buying an 8core to run it on 'Balanced' mode. Whose fault is that. Now before you say it, no, i don't care about the new age trends and hug-me-a-tree mentalities and save the planet; putting mentality on top of logic is still a fault. Your fault (again figuratively).
- People eschewing disabling power states and wondering why or why not. Can link you post after post; yet they too had an "opinion" on Ryzen's bad launch.
- People not taking the time or lacking the knowledge to ensure some semblance of compatibility between their components. They too had an "opinion".
- People neglecting to switch to Gen2 (or entirely unaware of this) when tweaking their BCLK. They too had an "opinion".
- People not having done their reading and as such incapable of grasping SoC's import for both core and ram freqs.
- People so.. useless, so used to "we do it for you" mentality of today that are unable to even upgrade their own BIOS properly... enter a gazillion of issues i've never had simply because i updated the proper way; what a surprise (again, a gazillion posts i could link you of just this).
- People rushing to buy brands they shouldn't be rushing to buy except they were anyway, because such is the market, its mentality and its victims nowadays.
- People being so cheap.. so petty.. they HAD to save 30bucks, buy the non-X version of a cheap as peanuts CPU; and then complain about how it did not quite reach the 'X' variant's frequencies.. why really.. yet they too had an "opinion".
- People buying a certain brand's mobos even after they released a version that fried the mobo, lol.. and i can link you their posts, complaining it was Ryzen's fault for that too!
- People (can name you some we have here, as members), buying the wrong RAMs, entirely, and then making threads here asking for help. Which is O.K., unless they then complain, you guessed it, that this platform has "issues".

I could go on, so really, spare me.
I have made mistakes few here have. I have less than half the knowledge most here have; and yet twice thus far, nothing. All it took was reason. No AGESAs out, no beta mobo BIOSes out, just reason.

So while i respect your opinion (in regard to "early on it really was bad", aka their fault, not ours), i'm really not the one to help you with solidifying it :)
I can pretty much counter that with a one liner: "not all of us are nerds."
 
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Nooo no no.. not that easy, not with me.

It's --your-- fault if you rushed, it's ---your--- fault for rushing and having expectations. Entirely yours.
(yours as in figuratively, am uninterested in targetting individuals)

Also, again.. this doesn't work with me. You paint the full picture, or quote me not. May i? :)

- People buying an 8core to run it on 'Balanced' mode. Whose fault is that. Now before you say it, no, i don't care about the new age trends and hug-me-a-tree mentalities and save the planet; putting mentality on top of logic is still a fault. Your fault (again figuratively).
- People eschewing disabling power states and wondering why or why not. Can link you post after post; yet they too had an "opinion" on Ryzen's bad launch.
- People not taking the time or lacking the knowledge to ensure some semblance of compatibility between their components. They too had an "opinion".
- People neglecting to switch to Gen2 (or entirely unaware of this) when tweaking their BCLK. They too had an "opinion".
- People not having done their reading and as such incapable of grasping SoC's import for both core and ram freqs.
- People so.. useless, so used to "we do it for you" mentality of today that are unable to even upgrade their own BIOS properly... enter a gazillion of issues i've never had simply because i updated the proper way; what a surprise (again, a gazillion posts i could link you of just this).
- People rushing to buy brands they shouldn't be rushing to buy except they were anyway, because such is the market, its mentality and its victims nowadays.
- People being so cheap.. so petty.. they HAD to save 30bucks, buy the non-X version of a cheap as peanuts CPU; and then complain about how it did not quite reach the 'X' variant's frequencies.. why really.. yet they too had an "opinion".
- People buying a certain brand's mobos even after they released a version that fried the mobo, lol.. and i can link you their posts, complaining it was Ryzen's fault for that too!
- People (can name you some we have here, as members), buying the wrong RAMs, entirely, and then making threads here asking for help. Which is O.K., unless they then complain, you guessed it, that this platform has "issues".

I could go on, so really, spare me.
I have made mistakes few here have. I have less than half the knowledge most here have; and yet twice thus far, nothing. All it took was reason. No AGESAs out, no beta mobo BIOSes out, just reason.

So while i respect your opinion (in regard to "early on it really was bad", aka their fault, not ours), i'm really not the one to help you with solidifying it :)
The platform clearly came out immature.

Im not going to address each point you made, but i dont agree with several...namely

* people buying wrong ram.. while im sure that happened, people bought off the damn qvl list and had problems.
* who cares about overclocking expectations. The reality is it sucks across the board.

...i can go on, but.... i simply wont. Too much to counter on my phone.

The bottom line is there were many issues out of the gate. Good on you for not running into them... twice. Have a cookie :). Some issues were certainly caused by user error, be it poor choices in ram, expectations not set properly etc. Many however, were not.

Things have gotten better all around, but make no mistake about it.. out of the gate there were issues.
 
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cdawall

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Did someone mention that Intel cable modem chipset that's flawed from here to next Tuesday?
 

dorsetknob

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That CPU worked and was good but too expensive
seem to remember Intel tried to Drop it ( Support and product line ) as it basicly only sold in few numbers to ( Server and Enterprise customers).
there was a heck of a legal battle between intel and HP/Oracle over itanium about ongoing promised Support
 
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Don't lie itanium was great.
Bullshit. They never could get the compilers to produce good enough (binary) code to run on it. The thing is that Itanium removed a lot of things that x86 does for you and puts it into the hands of the developers. Since we know that most developers can't write good, clean, and secure code to save their lives Itanium turned out to be shit.
 
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In the history of Intel when have they released something that didn't work?

Even as far back as the early phenom days amd had massive issues (tlb bug).

I have a strange nagging feeling threadripper won't correctly clock ram, on top of other issues like behaving like it is a 4P system. Time will tell, but one of the two companies definitely releases a more finished product.
It's argued on the interwebz if there entire lineup is compromised regardless of fusing by there active or inert security features, it is argued rumour backed by a few knowledgeable people but not prooven il admit.
But they have router chips that pop early ,usb ports compromised and all sort of erata in Every chip but its the same for all so im not personally singling them out just saying they are far from perfect ,but then what corporation is , ,,,yes men.....
 
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Lemme highlight a few things for you Itanium lovers.

It’s a bit of a sad end to what was once billed as Intel’s most exciting, forward-looking design. Back in the late 1990s, Itanium was pitched as a joint project between HP and Intel, one that would produce a true successor to the various RISC architectures that were still in-market at that time. Intel and HP both spent huge amounts of money and burned an enormous amount of development time trying to bring a new type of microprocessor to market, only to see Itanium crash and burn while x86 boomed. So what went wrong with Itanium?
The only problem was, it didn’t work well in practice. Memory accesses from cache and DRAM are non-deterministic, which meant the compiler can’t predict how long they will take — and if the compiler can’t predict how long they’ll take, it’s going to have a hard time scheduling workloads to fill the gap. Itanium was designed to present a huge array of execution resources that the compiler would intelligently fill, but if the compiler can’t keep them filled, it’s just wasted die space. Itanium was designed to extract and exploit instruction-level parallelism, but compilers of the time struggled to find enough ILP in most workloads to justify the expense and difficulty of running code on the platform. And EPIC was so radically different from any other architecture, there was no way to cleanly port an application.
But its failure is also a testament to how some of the ‘facts’ that get passed around CPU industry aren’t as simple as we might think. x86 is often discussed in disparaging terms as an outdated and ancient architecture, as if no one had the guts to take it outside and shoot it. But in reality, Intel made multiple attempts to do just that, from the iAPX 432 (begun in 1975) to the i860 and i960, to Itanium itself. And despite an emphasis on parallelism that sounds superficially promising, given the difficulty modern programmers have had with scaling applications to use multiple threads in an effective manner, Itanium represented another dead-end branch of research that never managed to deliver the real-world performance it promised on paper.
 
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x86 may be a shitty architecture but its proven time and a time again it can go further, it has stood the test of time.
 
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given the difficulty modern programmers have had with scaling applications to use multiple threads in an effective manner, Itanium represented another dead-end branch of research that never managed to deliver the real-world performance it promised on paper.
Gee, isn't this the same thing the Ryzen haters are saying?
Will it not be the same road traveled for the Intel X platform?
 

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Can we keep this list going I am having fun :roll:
 

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Did someone mention that Intel cable modem chipset that's flawed from here to next Tuesday?
Me. Ironic in hindsight, I'll admit.
 

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Xeon Phi? Was meant to be a catch-all x86 GPGPU and was unceremoniously reduced to a many-core co-processor with zero GPU functionality.

3D XPoint memory? Was supposed to be amazebawls fast and now they're aiming for it to barely compete with the latest NVMe SSDs.

I can't say Intel truly impressed since the original Core i7 launched almost a decade ago.
 
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I thought it was 44? I have seen a couple of different postings on usable pcie now for them...
As far as I can tell, its 24 lanes from each die and 16 from the chipset. So 2x24 + 16 = 64 total lanes. Because of how the lanes are split up you can still only get two 16x slots; one from each die.

 

cdawall

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As far as I can tell, its 24 lanes from each die and 16 from the chipset. So 2x24 + 16 = 64 total lanes. Because of how the lanes are split up you can still only get two 16x slots; one from each die.

Good to know. This will be a real test of how the CCX units can communicate between each other then...That is going to be a metric shit ton of data across infinity fabric.
 

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Here's AdoredTV take on the x299 "blunder" and threadripper:


He makes some interesting points. Dunno if threadripper will scale as high as he suggests but, as long as it's not that far off, Intel really does seem to be screwed ...
 
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3D XPoint memory? Was supposed to be amazebawls fast and now they're aiming for it to barely compete with the latest NVMe SSDs.

On this point, supposedly Optane is truly amazing; even in it's early implementation. Allyn Malvantano over at PCPer.com gave a good go over about it.
 
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"not all of us are nerds"
Oh it's besides that i think.
When you buy something new and in this case, doubly new (new as in not only your components/build in its entirety, but also new as in the whole platform per se), you're meant to do some research. It's really that simple and it applies to everything.. form buying a new watch all the way to buying a new car.

None of us, myself included, needed a degree or decades of expertise to do just the basic.. read a little bit.

The reality is it sucks across the board
...
make no mistake about it.. out of the gate there were issues
Will start from the latter and again state that yes, of course there were. Will only reiterate that:
i) even two weeks, a measly two weeks of waiting would have ensured 80% of them would never have been reported. Rushing and then blaming someone else is at best immature.
ii) a significant number of them would have been reported even 6 and 8 months later, because people did a lot of things wrongly, did not acquaint themselves with the platform, etc., as i mention above (and let me repeat myself, have even more 'idiotic' examples to post if needed)
iii) fanboyism at work, as usually, only added to the negativity. A lot of manchildren expected the Intel-killer and when they saw something only a few percentile units behind but at half the price? Were disappointed.... and then bitter and resentful. No further comments.

Now as to the former, lol.. it sucks across the board? Seriously? :)

Bit lower in most, bit faster in some select few, but let us say (even though falsely) that it is behind in everything, compared to a 6900K, O.K.?

- $1200 for the i7 + $500ish for the Intel mobo (and i'm being generous here) = $1700 total
- $500 for the X + $250 tops for the mobo (not even holding back like above, buying the best this time around) = $750 total

If you think that with this pricing difference ($950), being a few percentile units behind is a "fail", you need re-examine your criteria. Wholly.

Anyway, this is off topic, but i would only remind that the reason i mentioned this in my first post is to showcase how.. warped.. people's thinking is. And how that is the number one issue at hand far as i'm concerned.
It applies for the X299 too, albeit differently (see my original post).
 
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Good to know. This will be a real test of how the CCX units can communicate between each other then...That is going to be a metric shit ton of data across infinity fabric
I cant see its 'quad channel' ram working great tbh, even more so with epyc, given they will be using slower ecc ram

with ryzen we saw its ccx latency issues quite apparent until you get the ram up around 3000mhz
 
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Does anyone know if AMD is tying the speed of the Infinity Fabric to the speed of the system RAM in Threadripper and Epyc?
 

cdawall

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I cant see its 'quad channel' ram working great tbh, even more so with epyc, given they will be using slower ecc ram

with ryzen we saw its ccx latency issues quite apparent until you get the ram up around 3000mhz
And this will have the ram controllers split between the CCX units... LOL this is going to be great
 
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And this will have the ram controllers split between the CCX units... LOL this is going to be great
As I said before, I think Infinity Fabric is in need of a major revision. A clock doubler vs memory, or something. It sucks in it's current implementation, and is only really good for two CCXs.
 
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