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Matisse (Ryzen 3000) overclocking/undervolting

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First of all I never said is dead, but is dying... There is a difference. And from now on (more with ZEN3) OC will become a past remnant (just like GPU OC) that some users refuse to let go... yet.
How much more FPS these processors are gainning from those OCs. Its false usage IMHO and it just kills its advanced tech, management and characteristics.
Hey but this is my opinion and apologize for not making it more clear.
 
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That's a lot of voltage man. You should try per CCX ratio overclocking. The reason you have to throw so much voltage at it is due to weaker cores/CCX. At 1.32v I have one CCX that will do 4.55ghz and the others from 4.4ghz down to 4.35ghz. I'm not keen on throwing down 1.4v just to get the weaker cores up. The 4.55 CCX gets me high IPC w/o burdening the chip with excess voltage and heat.

In comparison, my chip will do all core of 4.35 at 1.31v...
 
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First of all I never said is dead, but is dying... There is a difference. And from now on (more with ZEN3) OC will become a past remnant (just like GPU OC) that some users refuse to let go... yet.
How much more FPS these processors are gainning from those OCs. Its false usage IMHO and it just kills its advanced tech, management and characteristics.
Hey but this is my opinion and apologize for not making it more clear.
I can definitely see your point, and am not disagreeing that CPU overclocking may go the way GPU overclocking has. I no longer try to manually overclock my GPU the only setting I'll manually "overclock" is the memory frequency, past that I just use MSI Afterburner to auto overclock on a curve. I have found that MSI's Afterburner can actually get better GPU overclocks then I can trying it manually. Using Afterburner and manual memory overclock I can get my RTX 2070 to the performance level of a RTX 2070 Super (at stock). I can definitely foresee a day when CPU overclocking is just like MSI Afterburner and the only manual overclocking will be very slight tweaks.

As far as overclocking and gaming goes... Well I just called out a guy today for posting videos of his R7 3800X @ 4.625Ghz all core, 1.475V playing Battlefield V and a couple other games. Yes, you can technically game with your CPU running a very unstable overclock (and with very unsafe voltages) but I don't consider it "valid" as other than gaming your going to crash to desktop, bluescreen, or hard restart if you would try to run something a little more taxing like Cinebench R20. I don't really know how much of a real boost manually overclocking in gaming will give you, I primarily do it for rendering / editing / converting videos and 4.4, 4.475Ghz all core overclock 100% stable makes a big difference.

That's a lot of voltage man. You should try per CCX ratio overclocking. The reason you have to throw so much voltage at it is due to weaker cores/CCX. At 1.32v I have once CCX that will do 4.55ghz and the others from 4.4ghz down to 4.35ghz. I'm not keen on throwing down 1.4v just to get the weaker cores up. The 4.55 CCX gets me high IPC w/o burdening the chip with excess voltage and heat.
I don't run 24/7 at that voltage, and do use CCX overclocking. My usual max overclock is 4.475Ghz CCX0 and 4.45Ghz CCX1, but usually won't push past 4.475Ghz all core max, and that's only if I'm benchmarking or really need a project done as quickly as is possible (doesn't happen very often). My normal overclock is much more reasonable, 4.4Ghz all core @ 1.3V (I can run at 1.28V stable but have found I get better benchmark scores @ 1.3V). I'll have to try one core at 4.4 and one at 4.5, 4.55Ghz and see what I get...

Just rechecked my voltages and made a correction, at 4.4Ghz all core I run 24/7 @ 1.3V, but I can use 1.28V... I just corrected above.
 
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Yea um, ya realize yer chip is pretty well binned right?

I went thru each core one at a time. And fyi, the preferred core in Ryzen Master was dead wrong lol. Those turned out to be my weakest cores.
 
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Yea um, ya realize yer chip is pretty well binned right?

I went thru each core one at a time. And fyi, the preferred core in Ryzen Master was dead wrong lol. Those turned out to be my weakest cores.
You know, I just took AMD at their word and have always pushed the highest clock on the CCX with the gold star. In fact, my CCX overclocking is very limited and I don't really know why. If I overclock one core then all the other cores on that CCX drop to 3.5Ghz and can't be changed. When I overclock a CCX I can't do it with individual cores I have to set the entire CCX. Therefore the best I can do without increasing voltage is CCX0 4.4Ghz and CCX1 4.450Ghz, so 4 cores 8 threads running 4.4Ghz and 4 cores 8 threads running 4.450Ghz... Would be nice for an everyday clock to only set my strongest core to 4.5Ghz and the rest to 4.4Ghz...

I have always considered my chip to be on the better side of binning but I don't know if I would consider it to be golden. That's not a knock to it or anything, but I have seen some guys posted better voltage than I can for the same stable clocks. Then again, weather or not they are really stable is up for debate... I always validate my stability with Prime95.
 
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You know, I just took AMD at their word and have always pushed the highest clock on the CCX with the gold star. In fact, my CCX overclocking is very limited and I don't really know why. If I overclock one core then all the other cores on that CCX drop to 3.5Ghz and can't be changed. When I overclock a CCX I can't do it with individual cores I have to set the entire CCX. Therefore the best I can do without increasing voltage is CCX0 4.4Ghz and CCX1 4.450Ghz, so 4 cores 8 threads running 4.4Ghz and 4 cores 8 threads running 4.450Ghz... Would be nice for an everyday clock to only set my strongest core to 4.5Ghz and the rest to 4.4Ghz...
That's some decent clocks!!
72 (load) 27 (idle) 21 (ambient)
Your air cooler does pretty good imo.

why does cowboy44mag name sound so familiar to me??
yes, I remember now, OCN. :D
 
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That's some decent clocks!!
72 (load) 27 (idle) 21 (ambient)
Your air cooler does pretty good imo.
Remember to use cpu-z tabs
cpu, mainboard and memory when make submissions.
Not sure, go to benchmarks and select rules next to the dl tab.

why does cowboy44mag name sound so familiar to me??
yes, I remember now, OCN. :D
I can get better clocks, but have to increase voltage to do so. I run with an offset so I measure my voltage based upon its highest average level. I can run 4.4Ghz all core at 4.3V, but to run CCX0 @ 4.4 and CCX1 @ 4.45Ghz I need 1.33V. I can hit 4.5Ghz all core and submitted a validation of such, but Prime doesn't like 4.5Ghz all core. The best I can do to pass Prime is 4.475Ghz all core @1.406V. I can do CCX0 4.475Ghz and CCX1 4.5Ghz (so for me that's 4 cores 8 threads @ 4.475Ghz and 4 cores 8 threads @ 4.5HGhz) but haven't had the time to Prime test that one, however it will run Cinebench R20 and any other benchmark I an throw at it. To be perfectly honest though the difference between 4.475Ghz all core and running the fastest with 4.475 / 4.5Ghz with CCX is such a small difference I vary rarely even bother.

I have been really happy with my NH-U14S. I have 2 140mm in push pull and it seems to perform right up there with the NH-D15 and most AIOs. I find overclocking relaxing so I'm always tweaking something to see if I can get just a little more, so far my limiting factor has been voltage (safe voltage) and not heat.

Yep, OCN is one of my favorite:D
 
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If you've seen me in this forum, or some of the others, you'll find I "almost" despise Intel - almost being the keyword. As for what I said, it was joke like that lawsuit over Bulldozer.
 
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Yea um, ya realize yer chip is pretty well binned right?

I went thru each core one at a time. And fyi, the preferred core in Ryzen Master was dead wrong lol. Those turned out to be my weakest cores.
This is kind of interesting... Can you give specifics? Speeds, voltages... scaling.

Not that I’m going to OC but it’s interesting to me and always want to understand the behavior of ZEN2 CPUs and why the do what they do.
 
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This is kind of interesting... Can you give specifics? Speeds, voltages... scaling.

Not that I’m going to OC but it’s interesting to me and always want to understand the behavior of ZEN2 CPUs and why the do what they do.
I used my 4.3ghz all core voltage as a starting point. Basically I left everything as is, docp enabled, voltages as they are from the all core overclock. I went into the CCD/CCX ratio option, left the VID at default/auto and then raised CCX 0 ratio from its current 4.3 to 43.25/43.5/43.75 etc etc to till I ended up at 45.5. Each change along the way I primed for 2-3 tests, ie. prime runs a pre-test which is like 4 minutes or more before actually running a test. As you can see this can be a long process. Once I hit a stopping point and noted it, I moved onto the next CCX and the next and so on. I chose to arbritraily cap my voltage at 1.32v-1.33v for daily usage and it also coincided with the least voltage needed to hit 4.55ghz on my best CCX. You obviously may get higher ratios with more voltage but that's an individual choice.

Oh forgot to add, since I started with a 4.3ghjz all core starting point, you can switch all the CCX to 43 to start with, since it is the same thing and then go from there.
 
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is it normal for my ram write score to be so low on ryzen 3000?

 
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Yes... mine is around there too. This was deliberate from AMD to give resources to other performance aspects of the CPU with higher importance.
around... its excactly the same.

1574211772959.png
 
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robinjoo1

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well i have to wait for gigabyte to release AGESA 1.0.0.4
We will update AGESA 1004 on B350 platform about the end of November 2019.
 
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I just tried AGESA 1.0.0.4B and at least on my motherboard it really screwed things up. Just reverted back to 1.0.0.3ABBA and have been tweaking settings and actually just got a nice performance bump.
 

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I have had my 3800X since September 2019, I too was really worried about some of the insane Voltages being applied at stock, coming from an early early R7 1700 @3800 All Core @1.35v I did see a performance increase. But all of my fans were running loud VERY loud and temps were in the high 70's / early 80's on a 360 AIO. I was seeing anything upto 1.5v in Ryzen Master. Every now and then a core would tap 4400 ish but for the most part it fluctuated between 4100 and 4300. CB20 (All Core) would settle at around 4150 all core, regardless if I used PBO etc...

Now I am well aware the the community at large believes that my Motherboard is the Garbage of the Garbage ... ahem X470 Ultra Gaming... but this board is now actually having to deal with much less current than it was on my old 1700@3.8 and in fact runs so much cooler than it did with my Gen 1 but with MUCH higher performance.

I played around with dropping max voltages and upping Freqs and settled on the following which has been 100% stable since September and tames those fans to almost silent...

3800x 4300 CB20.jpg


This is, and has been my daily default driver setting ever since. Obviously coming from a Gen 1 (pre order) 1700 it has made a huge difference to my render times and general 'feel' of the system. Excuse the RAM timings as I had already bought (for the old system) the G SKILL 32GB (RYZEN) DDR4 3600 Kit and refuse to bin them for a modest performance uplift.

Amended due to tiredness...

Stock

3800x Stock SC CB20.jpg


@4300 Allcore @1.275v

3800x 4300 SC CB20.jpg


Hope it helps....
 
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I have had my 3800X since September 2019, I too was really worried about some of the insane Voltages being applied at stock, coming from an early early R7 1700 @3800 All Core @1.35v I did see a performance increase. But all of my fans were running loud VERY loud and temps were in the high 70's / early 80's on a 360 AIO. I was seeing anything upto 1.5v in Ryzen Master. Every now and then a core would tap 4400 ish but for the most part it fluctuated between 4100 and 4300. CB20 (All Core) would settle at around 4150 all core, regardless if I used PBO etc...

Now I am well aware the the community at large believes that my Motherboard is the Garbage of the Garbage ... ahem X470 Ultra Gaming... but this board is now actually having to deal with much less current than it was on my old 1700@3.8 and in fact runs so much cooler than it did with my Gen 1 but with MUCH higher performance.

I played around with dropping max voltages and upping Freqs and settled on the following which has been 100% stable since September and tames those fans to almost silent...

View attachment 142008

This is, and has been my daily default driver setting ever since. Obviously coming from a Gen 1 (pre order) 1700 it has made a huge difference to my render times and general 'feel' of the system. Excuse the RAM timings as I had already bought (for the old system) the G SKILL 32GB (RYZEN) DDR4 3600 Kit and refuse to bin them for a modest performance uplift.

Hope it helps.... Oh and BTW Going Ryzen 'Balanced' to Ryzen 'Performance' power plan lifts CB20 from 4700's to 4900's...
Unless you made some mistakes that MB is really holding you down. With PBO set to all maximums and few tweaks including negative voltage offset, my 3700x on Asus Prime x470 pro + 3600MHz Cl 16 RAM, my CB r20 scores 5087/511. Max voltage Load 1.325v, 1.4v at idle with up to 65c and that's under single 1400mm cooler CM Nepton 140XL.
 

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Thanks for the Heads up, was a late night last night and I posted the wrong images for CB 20 Scores, Here I have 1 more one at 'Stock and 1 at 4300 All Core @ 1.275V.... sorry for stupidity ...

Yeah, I kinda know the MB is holding me back as are the seriously slack RAM timings, but coming from R7 1700 to this is such a massive improvement that an additional outlay of in excess of £250 (mobo) for a 3% performance uplift is just not good enough value for me. I am happy that the performance is as good as it is, seeing as the 'only' cost addition was the £399 for the CPU .
I think I will be awaiting release of Ryzen 4000 / X670, then will buy a new X570 when that price sweet spot hits just after release. Already have PCIe 4 SSD's (as the price at the time was way too good) so will be wanting X570 for that alone.
Probably go with X570 Aorus Ultra when the price drops, as I am so used to Gigabyte BIOS (Crappy as it is) from many years use, that I cannot be bothered to re learn a new BIOS.

3800x Stock SC CB20.jpg


Above is the Stock scores, please ignore the images in previous post

3800x 4300 SC CB20.jpg


Above here is the All Core 4300 @ 1.275v

Thanks for the reply but I was sooo tired at the time
 

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Thanks for the heads up, yeah I kinda know the MB is holding me back as are the seriously slack RAM timings, but coming from R7 1700 to this is such a massive improvement that an additional outlay of in excess of £250 (mobo) for a 3% performance uplift is just not good enough value for me. I am happy that the performance is as good as it is, seeing as the 'only' cost addition was the £399 for the CPU . I think I will be awaiting release of Ryzen 4000 / X670, then will buy a new X570 when that price sweet spot hits just after release. Already have PCIe 4 SSD's (as the price at the time was way too good) so will be wanting X570 for that alone. Probably go with X570 Aorus Ultra when the price drops as I am so used to Gigabyte BIOS (Crappy as it is) from many years use, that I cannot be bothered to re learn a new BIOS.
I know that feeling, I went from FX 6350 OCed to 4.9GHz first to 1600x and that was 4 times faster !!! !600x to 1700x which was less overwhelming but still nice boost in multitasking. 1700x was replaced by 2700x with 20% boost but I almost regretted getting 3700x as 3800x wasn't available at that time. Changing to 3800x is now out of question as I would loose at least 100 Euro. Only real change would be 3900x but I'm still very satisfied with 3700x.
So, here I'm waiting for 4000 series too, just to see what that might bring, info is pretty scarce for now. I doubt it would bring DDR5 or PCIe v5/6 so hope I can keep this very satisfactory MB.
 
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I have also tried messing with upping the Freq on the Golden Core to 4400, 4375, 4350 and 4325, but it seems my chip is uncomfortable with ANY core over 4300 without putting over 1.37v into the chip... TBH I would rather it last forever than fade away due to abuse.

So for me it seems the best sweet spot I can find is 4300 all core @ 1.275v.... I have a rather aggressive fan profile, the fans are set to 19% all the way From 0 to 60 Degrees (due to fan stop not always restarting the fans) then a super sharp ramp to 75 Degrees @90% then 100% at 85 Degrees. Pump is on 50% until 60 Degrees the straight to 100% at 75 Degrees.
Obviously using Thermal Grizzly Conductanaut for paste ;)

Currently using 3 x 120mm CM fans on Rad, 1, (same) rear exhaust and 2 (same) top exhaust, toying with the idea of an additional 3 120's on Rad in push/pull, just for the giggles
 
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I also toyed with all core OC, 1.375v (which I don't think is too high) as long as temps are decent. Btw. temps are not as important for stationary all core OC as they are for PBO. As I couldn't get desired stability over 4,3GHz even with over 1.4v, I practically gave up on it. this is the result:
 

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I also toyed with all core OC, 1.375v (which I don't think is too high) as long as temps are decent. Btw. temps are not as important for stationary all core OC as they are for PBO. As I couldn't get desired stability over 4,3GHz even with over 1.4v, I practically gave up on it. this is the result:
Yeah that's all well and good, but I have been burnt by being a very early adopter of 1700, reviews all promised 3.9 to 4.0 All core, and yes I attained 3.95 but the amount of voltage and heat pumping into that CPU... definitely damaged it in some way... after all the early experimenting it would only ever get to 3.8 at any Voltage and its' stability was always in question. So for me protecting the Silicon takes priority now over eeking a tiny performance boost.

My original plan had been to install 3800X Set PBO etc and leave it well alone. The only reason I have for fiddling at all is because I saw consistent voltages right up to 1.5v and it just didn't 'feel' right.

Problem is, for me, adding that much extra Voltage 0.1v to 0.125v , to 1.375 or 1.4v, for such a little gain is pointless, it would have been nice if my experiments with the 'Golden Core' had worked out so running that at 4400 etc and remaining 7 at 4300.... but alas it wasn't to be the case. So for my uses and the longevity of my CPU 4300 @ 1.275 is where I am at until a 'magic' BIOS appears, that is ;)
 
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Yeah that's all well and good, but I have been burnt by being a very early adopter of 1700, reviews all promised 3.9 to 4.0 All core, and yes I attained 3.95 but the amount of voltage and heat pumping into that CPU... definitely damaged it in some way... after all the early experimenting it would only ever get to 3.8 at any Voltage and its' stability was always in question. So for me protecting the Silicon takes priority now over eeking a tiny performance boost.

My original plan had been to install 3800X Set PBO etc and leave it well alone. The only reason I have for fiddling at all is because I saw consistent voltages right up to 1.5v and it just didn't 'feel' right.

Problem is, for me, adding that much extra Voltage 0.1v to 0.125v , to 1.375 or 1.4v, for such a little gain is pointless, it would have been nice if my experiments with the 'Golden Core' had worked out so running that at 4400 etc and remaining 7 at 4300.... but alas it wasn't to be the case. So for my uses and the longevity of my CPU 4300 @ 1.275 is where I am at until a 'magic' BIOS appears, that is ;)
I have built a few systems now using the 3800X and thus far every one of them has hit 4.4Ghz all core @ 1.3 - 1.34V. Now this is manual overclocking as on average the 3800X won't boost past 4.35Ghz on PBO. I have seen a user that had a 3800X that was able to hit 4.475Ghz all core with PBO, but have never been able to do so with my personal rig or any of the 3800X processors I have worked on personally. Manually overclocking with CCX I am able to get 4 cores and 8 threads to 4.5Ghz and 4 cores 8 threads to 4.475Ghz @ 1.406V, but I only use this setting if I really need a project done as quickly as possible or I am benchmarking. My everyday overclock is 4.4Ghz @ 1.3V.

I would highly recommend trying manual overclocking. With the 3800X the highest Vcore I've ever had to use to get 4.4Ghz stable was 1.34V. As long as heat is under control I don't think you would have any issue going as high as 1.37V for 24/7 operation. If you are concerned over constant static voltage with a manual overclock you can always do what I have done and set a voltage offset. With my offset my CPU will use as little as 0.5V at idle and will use the full 1.3V under load, setting the offset will help guard against any chance of degradation as the voltage isn't constant.
 
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