• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Mazdas new petrol engine doesn't need spark plugs and is 30% more efficient.

CAPSLOCKSTUCK

Spaced Out Lunar Tick
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
8,257 (4.71/day)
Likes
17,415
Location
llaregguB...WALES
System Name Wendys Nightmare / Winebox/ Matchbox
Processor Xeon X5670 @4.4ghz / G540 stock/ Q 8300
Motherboard Rampage ii Extreme / Giga GA H61m/ Intel P35
Cooling modded H100 pump and 12omm rad / stock/ stock
Memory 16gb Hyper FurryX triple / 4gb ddr3 / 4gb ddr2
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Windforce Gtx 970 1485/1800
Storage Kingston V300 120gb /YES/YES/YES
Display(s) 24 HannsG / tv/ 19 "/ 24"
Case Custom treadplate /yes/ wooden winebox/ matchsticks
Audio Device(s) ASUS Supreme xfi 7.1 / ob 7.1 / o/b/ob
Power Supply Corsair 550w / XFX 550// shuttle/ shuttle
Mouse Dead.....all dead.
Keyboard IBM kb7993
Software Win 10
Benchmark Scores http://hwbot.org/user/capslockstuck/
#1
Its fuel economy potentially matches that of a diesel engine without high emissions of nitrogen oxides or sooty particulates.

Mazda's engine employs spark plugs under certain conditions, such as at low temperatures, to overcome technical hurdles that have hampered commercialization of the technology.

HOW IT WORKS
A homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI) engine ignites petrol through compression, eliminating spark plugs.

Its fuel economy potentially matches that of a diesel engine without high emissions of nitrogen oxides or sooty particulates.

Mazda's engine employs spark plugs under certain conditions, such as at low temperatures, to overcome technical hurdles that have hampered commercialization of the technology.

To keep the temperature low at compression, the system reduces the amount of hot exhaust gas inside the combustion chamber.



+3
To keep the temperature low at compression, the system reduces the amount of hot exhaust gas inside the combustion chamber using a 4-2-1 exhaust system

In the Skyactiv-G, for example – the predecessor to the Skyactiv-X – Mazda uses a 4-2-1 exhaust system.

This relies on a pipe with a length over 600mm to elevate actual-use torque, and a loop shape to save space.

As the long distance cools the exhaust gas before it reaches the catalyst, which would then delay the catalyst’s activation, the system delays ignition timing after engine-start for stable combustion.

A piston cavity is used to optimize fuel injection further, to formulate a stratified air-fuel mixture around the spark plug, according to Mazda.





http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-g/
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
725 (0.90/day)
Likes
292
Location
Argentina
System Name Yukino
Processor Intel Core i3 5005U
Motherboard HP 240 G5
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x 4GB Hynix + Kingston 1600MHz DDR3L
Video Card(s) Intel HD 5500
Storage SSD Kingston 32GB + HDD Hitachi 1TB (USB3.0)
Display(s) Integrated 1366x768 @ 94Hz
Case Stock
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC282
Power Supply Power Brick
Mouse Touchpad + Genius USB
Keyboard Stock
Software Windows 10 LTSB x64
#2
As a motor fan, this is great news, but as a rotary fanboy, Mazda, gimme another RX-7 please!
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
149 (0.46/day)
Likes
59
System Name Microwave
Processor i7 6800k @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard MSI X99A SLI Plus
Cooling Ek Supremacy Evo (kit)
Memory 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 @ 2133MHz 2x8GB GSkill Ripjaws 4 DDR4 @ 2133MHz
Video Card(s) 1080ti FTW3 w/ek fullcover block
Storage 500GB 960 EVO 4TB Seagate @5700RPM 2TB WD Caviar Black
Case TT Core X9
Power Supply OCZ ModXtreme 700W
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G910
#3
HOW IT WORKS
A homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI) engine ignites petrol through compression, eliminating spark plugs.

Its fuel economy potentially matches that of a diesel engine without high emissions of nitrogen oxides or sooty particulates.

Mazda's engine employs spark plugs under certain conditions, such as at low temperatures, to overcome technical hurdles that have hampered commercialization of the technology.

To keep the temperature low at compression, the system reduces the amount of hot exhaust gas inside the combustion chamber.
So in a nutshell its a diesel engine running on gas with some new fiddly bits to help it with mpg and the works.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,475 (1.26/day)
Likes
1,025
Location
Australia
System Name Night Rider | Mini LAN PC | Workhorse
Processor AMD FX 8350 | i7 2600 | i7 970
Motherboard GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | GA-H77M-D3H | Gigabyte EX58-UD5
Cooling AMD Wraith cooler| Coolermaster Gemini with Noctua 3000RPM Fan | Big shairkan B
Memory 4x2GB DDR3 G.Skill 1600 6-8-6-24| 2x4GB Corsair 1600 | 6x2GB DDR3 1300 Corsair
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 970 OC in Sli | Gainward GTX 650 TI GS | ASUS 7970 Matrix
Storage 250GB Plextor SSD Por 5 /1TB WD Black | 500GB WD ES/WD Black | WD 320/Seagate 320
Display(s) Samsung 2494hs 24" 1080P| Samsung 20" S20C300L/DELL 15" | 22" DELL/19"DELL
Case LIAN LI PC-18 | Mini ATX Case (custom) | Atrix C4 9001
Audio Device(s) Onboard | Onbaord | Onboard
Power Supply Silverstone 750 | Silverstone Mini 450W | Corsair CX-750
Mouse Gigabyte aivia krypton gaming mouse | Rapoo V900 | Gigabyte 6850X
Keyboard MAX Keyboard Nighthawk X8 | Creative Fatal1ty eluminx | Some POS Logitech
Software Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64/Windows 10 Home
#4
so its a diesel engine with extractors that doesn't run on diesel?
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
805 (0.33/day)
Likes
749
Location
Greece
Processor AMD FX-8350 4GHz@1.3V
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-970A UD3 Rev3.0
Cooling Zalman CNPS5X Performa
Memory 2*4GB Patriot Venom RED DDR3 1600MHz CL9
Video Card(s) Sapphire 7950 3GB
Storage Sandisk SSD 120GB, 2 Samsung F1 & F3 (1TB)
Display(s) LG IPS235
Case Zalman Neo Z9 Black
Audio Device(s) Via 7.1 onboard
Power Supply OCZ Z550
Mouse Zalman ZM-M401R
Keyboard Logitech K120
Software Win 7 sp1 64bit
Benchmark Scores CB R15 64bit: single core 95p, multicore 626p, OpenGL 91.61 WPrime 1.55 (8 cores): 9.0 secs
#5
so its a diesel engine with extractors that doesn't run on diesel?
Much more complex since it burns petrol (=gas for US). And it has spark plugs for when combustion isn't high enough to induce the burning procedure. The achievement is spectacular, especially for such small company, but Mazda is a rare occassion in motor industry which has given the motor enthusiasts some special cars and technologies in times. Many cudos to them for giving decads of life more in internal combustion engines.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,475 (1.26/day)
Likes
1,025
Location
Australia
System Name Night Rider | Mini LAN PC | Workhorse
Processor AMD FX 8350 | i7 2600 | i7 970
Motherboard GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | GA-H77M-D3H | Gigabyte EX58-UD5
Cooling AMD Wraith cooler| Coolermaster Gemini with Noctua 3000RPM Fan | Big shairkan B
Memory 4x2GB DDR3 G.Skill 1600 6-8-6-24| 2x4GB Corsair 1600 | 6x2GB DDR3 1300 Corsair
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 970 OC in Sli | Gainward GTX 650 TI GS | ASUS 7970 Matrix
Storage 250GB Plextor SSD Por 5 /1TB WD Black | 500GB WD ES/WD Black | WD 320/Seagate 320
Display(s) Samsung 2494hs 24" 1080P| Samsung 20" S20C300L/DELL 15" | 22" DELL/19"DELL
Case LIAN LI PC-18 | Mini ATX Case (custom) | Atrix C4 9001
Audio Device(s) Onboard | Onbaord | Onboard
Power Supply Silverstone 750 | Silverstone Mini 450W | Corsair CX-750
Mouse Gigabyte aivia krypton gaming mouse | Rapoo V900 | Gigabyte 6850X
Keyboard MAX Keyboard Nighthawk X8 | Creative Fatal1ty eluminx | Some POS Logitech
Software Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64/Windows 10 Home
#6
Much more complex since it burns petrol (=gas for US). And it has spark plugs for when combustion isn't high enough to induce the burning procedure. The achievement is spectacular, especially for such small company, but Mazda is a rare occassion in motor industry which has given the motor enthusiasts some special cars and technologies in times. Many cudos to them for giving decads of life more in internal combustion engines.
I am guessing the spark plugs kick in when it is at idle RPM when the compression is at its lowest. Mazda is well just Mazda I wouldn't say there anything special but alot better then some other company's, we can thank them for the Rotary engine thats for sure.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
20,911 (6.24/day)
Likes
10,004
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#7
I read an article in truck trend that compression ignition is possible with gasoline but the compression ratios to make it happen are ridiculous. In short, the fuel economy improvements are offset by the weight of the engine to compensate for the high pressures (this is why diesel engines tend to be much heavier than gasoline engines). Increasing fuel economy standards may lead to requiring the development of compression ignition gasoline engines (surprised Mazda is first).

Mazda is well just Mazda I wouldn't say there anything special but alot better then some other company's, we can thank them for the Rotary engine thats for sure.
Wankel engines are kind of crappy though (dirty and inefficient).
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
725 (0.90/day)
Likes
292
Location
Argentina
System Name Yukino
Processor Intel Core i3 5005U
Motherboard HP 240 G5
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x 4GB Hynix + Kingston 1600MHz DDR3L
Video Card(s) Intel HD 5500
Storage SSD Kingston 32GB + HDD Hitachi 1TB (USB3.0)
Display(s) Integrated 1366x768 @ 94Hz
Case Stock
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC282
Power Supply Power Brick
Mouse Touchpad + Genius USB
Keyboard Stock
Software Windows 10 LTSB x64
#8
Combustion engines in general are dirty and inefficient.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
20,911 (6.24/day)
Likes
10,004
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#10
That's knocking (premature combustion), not compression ignition. Compression ignition engines (largely diesel) use a high pressure fuel injector which forces fuel into the cylinder at maximum compression. The energy from this causes the fuel-air mixture to ignite.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
6,201 (1.67/day)
Likes
982
System Name Phantom Skylake
Processor Intel i5 6600k @ 4.5GHZ w/ Corsair H80i CPU AiO w/Corsair 120mm SP120 RBG fan
Motherboard Asus z170-A
Cooling 4x120mm Corsair SP120 RBG fans
Memory G.skill DDR4 3200MHz 2x4GB (Soon to be Corsair Vengeance RBG)
Video Card(s) Asus DirectCUII GTX 980 STRIX
Storage Samsung 960 EVO m.2, Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSD, 2TB backup, 16TB Synology DS1515+ RAID-5
Display(s) Acer Predator 34" 3440x1440
Case Corsair 570x RBG Tempered Glass
Audio Device(s) Onboard / Corsair Void Wireless RGB
Power Supply Corsair HX750w Professional Series
Mouse Logitech G602s
Keyboard Corsair K70 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10 x64 Professional
Benchmark Scores Coming Soon
#11
Love my Mazda. Hopefully when I trade in my 6, this new engine will be in it.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
675 (0.32/day)
Likes
228
Location
Norway
System Name Games/internet/usage - Server - backup - HTPC
Processor I7 5820k - AMD A8-5600K BE - I7 920 - A8-7600
Motherboard ASUS X99-A2 - Gigabyte GA-F2A85X-UP4 - MSI x58 pro-e - Gigabyte GA-F2A88XN-WIFI
Cooling custom water loop for cpu and gpus - Arctic Cooling Freezer Xtreme r.2 - Noctua NH-U12P SE1366
Memory 16GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport 2666 MHz - 8GiB 1600MHz - 12 GiB corsair thing - 8GB 1866MHz
Video Card(s) 2x Radeon R9 290X CF - HD 7560D - 2x Radeon HD6950 CF - A8 -7600
Storage Samsung XP941 500 GB - 60 GB SSD + 6 x HDD 4 TB in RAID 6 - 4 SSD and 2 HDD - 250 GB SSD
Display(s) Dell 3008WFP - Remote desktop - the Dell when in use - 55" TV screen
Case Caselabs Magnum M8 - Fractal Design Define R4 - Nanoxia DS 1 - Antec ISK 110 VESA
Audio Device(s) Toslink -> Shiit Modi 2 Uber -> Matrix m-stage -> HD650 - none - as main - HDMI out -> 5.1 system
Power Supply beQuiet dark power pro 1200W- corsair RM750x - Corsair AX850 - Antec 90 W pico power
Mouse Roccat tyon - remote desktop - Roccat tyon when in use - Logitech K830
Keyboard Corsair K95 RGB - remote desktop - Corsair K95 RGB when in use - Logitech K830
Software Win 10 Pro - Win server 2012 essentials - Win 7 Pro - Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Not high enough
#12
That reminds me of the Wärtsilä dual fuel engines. Originally a diesel cycle (burning MDO or just straight crude oil) they could change over to run on natural gas after is was started on MDO. the trick was to use a small pilot injection of MDO at the start of the power stroke and then follow up with natural gas during the rest of the power stroke.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
805 (0.33/day)
Likes
749
Location
Greece
Processor AMD FX-8350 4GHz@1.3V
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-970A UD3 Rev3.0
Cooling Zalman CNPS5X Performa
Memory 2*4GB Patriot Venom RED DDR3 1600MHz CL9
Video Card(s) Sapphire 7950 3GB
Storage Sandisk SSD 120GB, 2 Samsung F1 & F3 (1TB)
Display(s) LG IPS235
Case Zalman Neo Z9 Black
Audio Device(s) Via 7.1 onboard
Power Supply OCZ Z550
Mouse Zalman ZM-M401R
Keyboard Logitech K120
Software Win 7 sp1 64bit
Benchmark Scores CB R15 64bit: single core 95p, multicore 626p, OpenGL 91.61 WPrime 1.55 (8 cores): 9.0 secs
#13
I read an article in truck trend that compression ignition is possible with gasoline but the compression ratios to make it happen are ridiculous. In short, the fuel economy improvements are offset by the weight of the engine to compensate for the high pressures (this is why diesel engines tend to be much heavier than gasoline engines). Increasing fuel economy standards may lead to requiring the development of compression ignition gasoline engines (surprised Mazda is first).

Wankel engines are kind of crappy though (dirty and inefficient).
That's why Mazda made it. They are pushing the development of higher compression ratio engines more than any other car manufacturer for a decade now instead of bringing to the market diesel-gate engines or small turbo gasoline ones that irl burn much more fuel than advertised, and now must get bigger and bigger to get lower emissions. Mazda's longtime strategy is proven brilliant now.

As for Wankel engines, they are also monstrous in output, revving sky-high and sound great. Engines for enthusiasts.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
725 (0.90/day)
Likes
292
Location
Argentina
System Name Yukino
Processor Intel Core i3 5005U
Motherboard HP 240 G5
Cooling Stock
Memory 2x 4GB Hynix + Kingston 1600MHz DDR3L
Video Card(s) Intel HD 5500
Storage SSD Kingston 32GB + HDD Hitachi 1TB (USB3.0)
Display(s) Integrated 1366x768 @ 94Hz
Case Stock
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC282
Power Supply Power Brick
Mouse Touchpad + Genius USB
Keyboard Stock
Software Windows 10 LTSB x64
#14
That reminds me of the Wärtsilä dual fuel engines. Originally a diesel cycle (burning MDO or just straight crude oil) they could change over to run on natural gas after is was started on MDO. the trick was to use a small pilot injection of MDO at the start of the power stroke and then follow up with natural gas during the rest of the power stroke.
Here in Argentina we still use common engines modified to run on natural compressed gas (with a huge canister on the back), it's way cheaper, very popular with taxis.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
588 (0.23/day)
Likes
195
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Ratchet
Processor Ryzen 1700X
Motherboard Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling Custom Loop, Ek blocks 280mm Rad
Memory 16gb TridentZ RGB DDR4 3000
Video Card(s) 1x ASUS STRIX RX480 OC(flashed to 580)
Storage JBOD
Display(s) HP ZR24w
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar STX II
Power Supply Seasonic X-series Gold 850W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar
Keyboard Corsair K70 Rapidfire
Software Windows 10
#16
So they're using performance/race longtube headers, and deliberately inducing combustion through high compression called 'engine knock' when it happens otherwise. Where's the breakthrough?
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,698 (1.91/day)
Likes
747
Processor i7-5820K
Motherboard Gigabyte X99-UD4
Cooling Corsair H100i
Memory 16GB Crucial DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Asus Strix GTX 1070
Storage 240GB HyperX 3k, 500GB Samsung 850EVO, 2x WD Black 640gb, WD Black 1TB, Seagate 10TB
Display(s) 2x BenQ 24" 1920x1080
Case BitFenix Ghost
Audio Device(s) Focusrite Saffire PRO 14 -> DBX DriveRack PA+ -> Mackie MR8 and MR10 / Corsair Vengeance 2100
Power Supply Corsair RM1000i
Mouse Logitech G500s
Keyboard Logitech G110
Software Windows 10 x64 Pro
#17
I look forward to seeing what it can do but have my doubts/concerns, primarily on reliability and power output.
--- There are already a number of gasoline/petrol small low power cars available that achieve near the fuel economy of a diesel.

There are a few problems, greatly increasing compression will increase wear. I'm curious as to what the power band will look like.
I assume this will also require a high pressure fuel pump on the rail which adds more drawback.
I believe this will also increase CO emissions (per unit of spent fuel), total emissions maybe down due to increases in efficiency.

I do not intend to sound like a downer on what sounds like could be a great development to carry over until electric is ready for mass markets.

****
Then the motor head side of my brain boots up and says NO! Blown big block or go home!

So they're using performance/race longtube headers, and deliberately inducing combustion through high compression called 'engine knock' when it happens otherwise. Where's the breakthrough?
It's not a huge breakthrough per say, they are making the design compatible with unleaded fuels, but nobody else has done so and brought it to large scale automotive production.

It's a fair bit different from knock, closer related to pre-ignition I suppose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
5,846 (2.86/day)
Likes
5,225
Location
Ovronnaz, Wallis, Switzerland
System Name Monster Panzer Max [MPM]/Nostalg33k/Shield/Neo U1/Nokia 5
Processor i5-6600K @4.4/C2D E8500/Tegra K1/Amlogic S905 4X1.535ghz Cortex A53/Snapdragon 430 8x Cortex A53
Motherboard Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7/XFX 650i Ultra/nvidia/AMlogic P200-2G/uh?
Cooling Corsair H115i /Alphacool Eisberg /magnesium/Aluminum heatsink/uh? bis
Memory 4x4gb HyperX Predator 2800 CL14/2gb DDR2 800/2gb/2gb LPDDR3/2gb LPDDR3
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1070 ARMOR 8gb OC/XFX 8800 GTX/GK20A/Mali 450MP5/Adreno 505
Storage 120gb OCZ VertexIII,60gb Patriot Blaze,1tb/8gb SSHD,2xToshiba 1tb/none/16gb+64gb/32gb/16gb+128gb
Display(s) Philips 273E3LH 27" 1920x1080 1ms/Toshiba 32L1343DG 1920x1080/8"1920x1200/5.2" 1280x720
Case Cougar Panzer Max/none/well... /Minix Neo U1/mono-bloc aluminum
Audio Device(s) Creative Recon3Di/SB Audigy 2 Platinum/HDMI output
Power Supply Seasonic M12II Evo 750 /Enermax Coolergiant 480/5v 3A/5V 2A
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum/Minix Neo A2 Lite/touch
Keyboard Logitech G410 Atlas Spectrum/Minix Neo A2 Lite/touch
Software Win10 64/none/Android 5.1.1 Zombiepop/Android 5.1.1 + Kodi/Android 7.1.1 Nougat (08.01.17 SPatch)
Benchmark Scores bench...mark? i do leave mark on bench sometime, to remember which one is the most comfortable. :o
#18
we can thank them for the Rotary engine thats for sure.
actually not Mazda is to thanks for the Rotary ... but rather the Dr. Wankel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Wankel
controversial history nonetheless ... but like most "innovation/invention" you need a war to draw them out ... sadly.

and that engine wasn't used firsthand by Mazda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_Ro_80
obviously not the 1st car that used it ... but my grandfather had one
the 1st one was that one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_Spider

and motorcycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RE5
ok i should have put Sachs motor or Norton or DKW instead of Suzuki :p

Wankel engines are kind of crappy though (dirty and inefficient).
muh... crappy i wouldn't say ... they had quite some success and fan ... (if you did write "i find the Wankel Engine crappy" i wouldn't quote :laugh: ;) ) dirty? well, which combustion motor isn't dirty... (even the new Mazda Skyactive is still a dirty engine, even if it is more efficient ) efficient? hum, technically no engine is really efficient , but true the Wankel design was too much fuel hungry ...

it had a nice sound nonetheless ...
 
Last edited:

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,401 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,481
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#19
It's a gasoline/petrol version of a diesel engine with part-time spark plugs for when the engine is cold. Look out Carnot, here we come. :laugh:
muh... crappy i wouldn't say ... they had quite some success and fan ... (if you did write "i find the Wankel Engine crappy" i wouldn't quote :laugh: ;) ) dirty? well, which combustion motor isn't dirty... (even the new Mazda Skyactive is still a dirty engine, even if it is more efficient ) efficient? hum, technically no engine is really efficient , but true the Wankel design was too much fuel hungry ...
Carnot would be disappointed in the Wankel. Thermal efficiency with that engine is garbage and higher expansion ratios is what lets you approach the maximum possible power out of a heat engine. The wankle produces a lot of power because it revs high, it eat a lot of fuel because it has a poor expansion ratio in terms of the area at the beginning and end of the combustion stroke. The Prius gets good gas mileage because it leaves the intake valve open longer and pushes some air out but, has a high compression ratio if the valve wasn't left open longer. So you have the expansion ratio of basically 14.5:1 so, you get great gas mileage. The electric motor is just to make up for the under-powered engine that's super efficient.

Diesels are just efficient because you compress the hell out of it until it explodes. They're really heavy engines though.

Efficiency = Increase in volume at the end of the combustion stroke to bring the ignited charge to atmospheric pressure and temperature. Thank you, Carnot. :love:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
1,165 (0.27/day)
Likes
433
Processor 7900
Motherboard Rampage Apex
Cooling H115i
Memory 64GB TridentZ 3200 14-14-14-34-1T
Video Card(s) Fury X
Case Corsair 740
Audio Device(s) 8ch LPCM via HDMI to Yamaha Z7 Receiver
Power Supply Corsair AX860
Mouse G903
Keyboard G810
Software 8.1 x64
#20
have my doubts/concerns, primarily on reliability
Reliability will be the biggest issue as these engine will have even higher piston pressures then diesel engines. If they do make it strong enough then the power to weight ratio will be abit heavy.

I assume this will also require a high pressure fuel pump on the rail which adds more drawback.
The fuel is injected on the intake stroke so you wont need a high pressure fuel rail. Not to say they wont use one though.

well, which combustion motor isn't dirty...
Injecting oil into the combustion chamber to help seal the "rings" makes it much more dirty compared to most engines.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
642 (0.20/day)
Likes
667
Location
MN
System Name Personal / HTPC
Processor i5-4670k / i5-4460
Motherboard ASUS z97-AR /ASRock Z87 Extreme4
Cooling Corsair H100i / stock HSF
Memory 16GB DDR3 1600 / 8GB DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 980Ti AMP! Omega / Zotac GTX 980Ti AMP! Omega
Storage 250 GB Crucial SSD MX200, 1TB & 500GB Western Digital / 2x 4TB WD Red in RAID 1
Display(s) 3x 24" Asus Ve248H LED (5760x1080) / 50" LCD TV
Case Fractal Design Arc XL / CM Haf XB Evo
Power Supply 850W SeaSonic X Series X-850 / 750W SeaSonic X Series
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Microsoft Natural Elite Keyboard
Software Windows 7 Home 64 / Windows 10 Home 64
#21
Love my Mazda. Hopefully when I trade in my 6, this new engine will be in it.
I love my 2005 Mazda 3 (especially the lava orange color), how she handles and the zip she has under the hood....but a few things that really pissed me off when about the 50k mile mark was hit. Makes me second guess going with Mazda, but perhaps I'm lucky with my car, she hasn't had too many issues. When I got my car the warranty was only for 36,000 miles. At least warranties today have much improved since I got my car back on 2005.

First issue around 50k: Purge solenoid valve fail/sticking. Only cost around $20-25 to fix, but still a pain.
Second issue around 60k: alternator failed
Third issue around 60k: gunk buildup in throttle body (regardless of regular oil changes and filter changes) - about every 15k since I have to clean it out
Fourth issue around 75k: thermostat failed
Fifth issue around 120k: front right wheel bearing failure. It wouldn't really have been much of an issue since it's a normal wear and tear thing, but you need to machine press the knuckle out and back into the new bearing. By the time you buy new parts and find a shop with a machine press, the cost for them to do the work only leaves you around $150 under the cost of having a place do everything it for you. So I had my local Mazda dealership fix it for me.

I'm at 125k on her now and normal wear and tear issues have cropped up to be fixed (broken rear strut mounts, replacement of rear struts - done around 110k). I need to replace rotors and breaks and if I have the cash I'll replace the front struts, too. Mechanically, under the hood, she's still in pretty good shape. Exterior, with the MN winters she started rusting on the rear wheel wells 3 years ago, regardless of all the washes and turtle waxes I put on her over the years. I suppose she's in pretty good shape for a 12 year old car. Gets me from A to B.

Only real issue I have when it comes to driving the car is driving in the winter. Even with quality snow-type tires, if there is more than 6 inches of snow on the ground, you're going nowhere if you have to come to a complete stop. I've gotten hung up in my driveway a couple of times when the snow was 6+ inches deep. Since she's pretty low to the ground, compared to a lot of other cars on the road, the big chunks of hard, packed snow that fall off other vehicles that sit in the middle of the road, I have to drive around or they smash into the under body.....I watch every other car in front of me drive right over it like it's not there.

If I stick with Mazda I'd look at something a bit higher off the ground with similar room/handling, all wheel drive......I'd probably look to a CX-5 or CX-3. Outside of some unforeseen failure on my Mazda 3 hatchback, I figure I'll get another 3-4 years out of her before she's pretty much ran into the ground.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
10,401 (4.85/day)
Likes
5,481
Location
Concord, NH
System Name Kratos
Processor Intel Core i7 3930k @ 4.2Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Cooling Zalman CPNS9900MAX 130mm
Memory G.Skill DDR3-2133, 16gb (4x4gb) @ 9-11-10-28-108-1T 1.65v
Video Card(s) MSI AMD Radeon R9 390 GAMING 8GB @ PCI-E 3.0
Storage 2x120Gb SATA3 Corsair Force GT Raid-0, 4x1Tb RAID-5, 1x500GB
Display(s) 1x LG 27UD69P (4k), 2x Dell S2340M (1080p)
Case Antec 1200
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio
Power Supply Seasonic 1000-watt 80 PLUS Platinum
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Rosewill RK-9100
Software Ubuntu 17.10
Benchmark Scores Benchmarks aren't everything.
#22
I love my 2005 Mazda 3 (especially the lava orange color), how she handles and the zip she has under the hood....but a few things that really pissed me off when about the 50k mile mark was hit. Makes me second guess going with Mazda, but perhaps I'm lucky with my car, she hasn't had too many issues. When I got my car the warranty was only for 36,000 miles. At least warranties today have much improved since I got my car back on 2005.

First issue around 50k: Purge solenoid valve fail/sticking. Only cost around $20-25 to fix, but still a pain.
Second issue around 60k: alternator failed
Third issue around 60k: gunk buildup in throttle body (regardless of regular oil changes and filter changes) - about every 15k since I have to clean it out
Fourth issue around 75k: thermostat failed
Fifth issue around 120k: front right wheel bearing failure. It wouldn't really have been much of an issue since it's a normal wear and tear thing, but you need to machine press the knuckle out and back into the new bearing. By the time you buy new parts and find a shop with a machine press, the cost for them to do the work only leaves you around $150 under the cost of having a place do everything it for you. So I had my local Mazda dealership fix it for me.

I'm at 125k on her now and normal wear and tear issues have cropped up to be fixed (broken rear strut mounts, replacement of rear struts - done around 110k). I need to replace rotors and breaks and if I have the cash I'll replace the front struts, too. Mechanically, under the hood, she's still in pretty good shape. Exterior, with the MN winters she started rusting on the rear wheel wells 3 years ago, regardless of all the washes and turtle waxes I put on her over the years. I suppose she's in pretty good shape for a 12 year old car. Gets me from A to B.

Only real issue I have when it comes to driving the car is driving in the winter. Even with quality snow-type tires, if there is more than 6 inches of snow on the ground, you're going nowhere if you have to come to a complete stop. I've gotten hung up in my driveway a couple of times when the snow was 6+ inches deep. Since she's pretty low to the ground, compared to a lot of other cars on the road, the big chunks of hard, packed snow that fall off other vehicles that sit in the middle of the road, I have to drive around or they smash into the under body.....I watch every other car in front of me drive right over it like it's not there.

If I stick with Mazda I'd look at something a bit higher off the ground with similar room/handling, all wheel drive......I'd probably look to a CX-5 or CX-3. Outside of some unforeseen failure on my Mazda 3 hatchback, I figure I'll get another 3-4 years out of her before she's pretty much ran into the ground.
I'm 2 1/2 years and 55k into my 2015 Subaru Impreza and the only thing that has broke is the power window switch for the drive side window. I considered the Mazda 3 but, I wanted the AWD for the winter. I have the manual transmission which has the 50:50 viscous coupled limited slip center diff which does wonders in the snow. Even with all-seasons, it handles decently in the snow. Like you, I'm no stranger to snow here in NH. The Saab was a nightmare with repairs and in the snow though. I will never go back to front-wheel drive.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,475 (1.26/day)
Likes
1,025
Location
Australia
System Name Night Rider | Mini LAN PC | Workhorse
Processor AMD FX 8350 | i7 2600 | i7 970
Motherboard GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | GA-H77M-D3H | Gigabyte EX58-UD5
Cooling AMD Wraith cooler| Coolermaster Gemini with Noctua 3000RPM Fan | Big shairkan B
Memory 4x2GB DDR3 G.Skill 1600 6-8-6-24| 2x4GB Corsair 1600 | 6x2GB DDR3 1300 Corsair
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 970 OC in Sli | Gainward GTX 650 TI GS | ASUS 7970 Matrix
Storage 250GB Plextor SSD Por 5 /1TB WD Black | 500GB WD ES/WD Black | WD 320/Seagate 320
Display(s) Samsung 2494hs 24" 1080P| Samsung 20" S20C300L/DELL 15" | 22" DELL/19"DELL
Case LIAN LI PC-18 | Mini ATX Case (custom) | Atrix C4 9001
Audio Device(s) Onboard | Onbaord | Onboard
Power Supply Silverstone 750 | Silverstone Mini 450W | Corsair CX-750
Mouse Gigabyte aivia krypton gaming mouse | Rapoo V900 | Gigabyte 6850X
Keyboard MAX Keyboard Nighthawk X8 | Creative Fatal1ty eluminx | Some POS Logitech
Software Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64/Windows 10 Home
#23
I read an article in truck trend that compression ignition is possible with gasoline but the compression ratios to make it happen are ridiculous. In short, the fuel economy improvements are offset by the weight of the engine to compensate for the high pressures (this is why diesel engines tend to be much heavier than gasoline engines). Increasing fuel economy standards may lead to requiring the development of compression ignition gasoline engines (surprised Mazda is first).


Wankel engines are kind of crappy though (dirty and inefficient).
Also they dont last very long, high wear rate and use three times as much petrol.

actually not Mazda is to thanks for the Rotary ... but rather the Dr. Wankel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Wankel
controversial history nonetheless ... but like most "innovation/invention" you need a war to draw them out ... sadly.

and that engine wasn't used firsthand by Mazda
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_Ro_80
obviously not the 1st car that used it ... but my grandfather had one
the 1st one was that one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_Spider

and motorcycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RE5
ok i should have put Sachs motor or Norton or DKW instead of Suzuki :p
Yes I know of the NSU having the rotary engine also, but I mean Mazda made it work like it says in the article they fixed some issues with the original design and I guess the rest is history from there onwards. Mazda made the rotary
successful :)
 
Last edited:

JC316

Knows what makes you tick
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
9,370 (2.16/day)
Likes
982
System Name Budget Gaming
Processor AMD FX6300
Motherboard Gigabyte 880GMA-USB3
Cooling Coolermaster Hyper 212+
Memory 8GB Ripjaws DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) HD7850 1GB
Storage 1TB Sata2
Display(s) Acer 24" LED
Case Generic black
Audio Device(s) Stock onboard
Power Supply FSP Aurum Gold 650W
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
#24
That's knocking (premature combustion), not compression ignition. Compression ignition engines (largely diesel) use a high pressure fuel injector which forces fuel into the cylinder at maximum compression. The energy from this causes the fuel-air mixture to ignite.
Detonation is technically compression ignition, just unintentional and not timed. It's also a great way to blow a hole in your piston. It's also a great way to do this to a head gasket. With direct injection coming to gasoline engines, it was only a matter of time before a compression based ignition would happen. I'm just curious as to how much power they can extract with this technique.

 
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
3,688 (2.78/day)
Likes
2,106
Location
Texas
System Name Alucard / The Reinforcer / Portable?
Processor i7 5930K @ 4.5ghz (24/7) / 2x Intel Xeon X5670 / Intel i7 3610QM
Motherboard MSI X99S Gaming 9 AC / Dell Dual Socket (R710) / MSI Stock Gaming Laptop
Cooling RX 360mm + 140mm Custom Loop in Push Pull Config. / Dell Stock / MSI Stock
Memory Corsair Vengeance DDR4 2666 16gb (4x4gb) CL 16 / 1333mhz DDR3 96gb 12 x 8gb / 12gb DDR3 3 x 4gb
Video Card(s) GTX Titan XP (2025mhz) / Asus GTX 950 (No Power Connector) / GTX 880m
Storage Samsung 840/850 512gb Raid 0, WD Velociraptor 600gb x 5 Raid 5 / 300gb 15k RPM x 8 / 2x 240gb Adata
Display(s) Acer XG270HU 1440p 144hz Freesync, Acer B286HK 4K UHD Monitor, 1 Hanns-G 27inch 1920x1080p Monitor
Case Corsair Obsidian 800D / Dell Poweredge R710 Rack Mount Case / MSI Gaming 17inch
Audio Device(s) Realtec ALC1150 (On board)
Power Supply Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G19S
Software Windows 10 Pro / Windows Server 2008 R2 / Windows 10 Pro
#25
I was reading up on this and though multiple users have beaten me to the punch in saying it, its a similar system to a Diesel engine. I like the idea, but that high of compression is going to be a bit harder on the engines and require a design that can hold up under pressure otherwise you end up with the Chevy 350 Diesel.