• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Melt Down Spectre update (have you)?

Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#26
You do realize if you update the mobo bios and disable the OS-side mitigations with Inspectre, literally no performance is lost?

This has gone beyond silly into full blown paranoia.

I have yet to read a single "ooh lokk what happened to me / this guy" post related to Meltdown of Spectre
Probably because few of us allow remote machine logins ala datacenters. Those will be hit hard by this.
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,667 (2.51/day)
Likes
4,254
Location
Rochester area
System Name Kreij Lives On
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.4Ghz 1.32V
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87
Cooling Reeven Okeanos Single 140MM Fan +2 SP120 White's
Memory 16GB kingston hyper x @ 2133 @ 11 11 11 32
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 ACX Copper Single fan
Storage 240gb Cruical MX200SSD/WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung S24D300/HP2071D
Case Custom Full Aluminum By ST.o.CH <3
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply HX 750i
Mouse Roccat KONE
Keyboard Rocatt ISKU with ISKUFX keycaps
Software Windows 10 +startisback
#27
You do realize if you update the mobo bios and disable the OS-side mitigations with Inspectre, literally no performance is lost?

This has gone beyond silly into full blown paranoia.



Probably because few of us allow remote machine logins ala datacenters. Those will be hit hard by this.
that was exactly my point ?

the microcode in windows defaults to bios first > mcupdate_genuineintel.dll second

so if you repack the bios with say microcode 22H and or rename the dll then thats what the the system will use, that just leaves the OS side kernel Mitigations which are disable-able with powershel

you can check which micocode windows is using by going to

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\CentralProcessor\0

if the key Previous Update Revision exists then your machine got a microcode update via mcupdate_genuineintel.dll
you can safely delete mcupdate_genuineintel.dl from \system32 to revert to the microcode in the bios

the last bios for this board 1609 shipped with microcode 19 I was able to update from 19 to 22
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#28
that was exactly my point ?

the microcode in windows defaults to bios first > mcupdate_genuineintel.dll second

so if you repack the bios with say microcode 22H and or rename the dll then thats what the the system will use, that just leaves the OS side kernel Mitigations which are disable-able with powershel

you can check which micocode windows is using by going to

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\HARDWARE\DESCRIPTION\System\CentralProcessor\0

if the key Previous Update Revision exists then your machine got a microcode update via mcupdate_genuineintel.dll
you can safely delete mcupdate_genuineintel.dl from \system32 to revert to the microcode in the bios

the last bios for this board 1609 shipped with microcode 19 I was able to update from 19 to 22
No offense OneMoar but I literally was unaware you had even posted. Got fed up with the paranoia about 2 posts in.
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,667 (2.51/day)
Likes
4,254
Location
Rochester area
System Name Kreij Lives On
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.4Ghz 1.32V
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87
Cooling Reeven Okeanos Single 140MM Fan +2 SP120 White's
Memory 16GB kingston hyper x @ 2133 @ 11 11 11 32
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 ACX Copper Single fan
Storage 240gb Cruical MX200SSD/WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung S24D300/HP2071D
Case Custom Full Aluminum By ST.o.CH <3
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply HX 750i
Mouse Roccat KONE
Keyboard Rocatt ISKU with ISKUFX keycaps
Software Windows 10 +startisback
#29
No offense OneMoar but I literally was unaware you had even posted. Got fed up with the paranoia about 2 posts in.
LOL
well I was the only one that said I turned both off so figured you ment me
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,332 (1.52/day)
Likes
1,524
Location
AK, USA
Processor Ryzen 5 2600X - 4.1 GHz
Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu with AM4 bracket
Memory PNY Anarchy-X XLR8 Red DDR4 3200 MHz C16
Video Card(s) XFX RS RX 480 GPU @ 1288 MHz - 1.040 mV from 1.175 | GDDR5 @ 2100 MHz
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB, SanDisk Ultra II 480 GB
Display(s) IP2362 OCed refresh rate - 76Hz (Freesync supported over HDMI with CRU)
Case Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC887 (dead)
Power Supply EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse Kingston HyperX Pulsefire FPS
Keyboard Logitech K520
Software Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
#30
Ryzen R5 2600X - Integer performance goes up with Spectre mitigation turned on but anything using Floats (FPU) there's a noticeable performance hit. It's repeatable when mitigation is toggled on or off.
Ryzen.png
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,667 (2.51/day)
Likes
4,254
Location
Rochester area
System Name Kreij Lives On
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.4Ghz 1.32V
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87
Cooling Reeven Okeanos Single 140MM Fan +2 SP120 White's
Memory 16GB kingston hyper x @ 2133 @ 11 11 11 32
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 ACX Copper Single fan
Storage 240gb Cruical MX200SSD/WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung S24D300/HP2071D
Case Custom Full Aluminum By ST.o.CH <3
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply HX 750i
Mouse Roccat KONE
Keyboard Rocatt ISKU with ISKUFX keycaps
Software Windows 10 +startisback
#31
Ryzen R5 2600X - Integer performance goes up with Spectre mitigation turned on but anything using Floats (FPU) there's a noticeable performance hit. It's repeatable when mitigation is toggled on or off.
View attachment 103929
up by how much benchmarks plz
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
2,017 (0.94/day)
Likes
837
Location
Jacksonhole Florida
System Name DEVIL'S ABYSS
Processor i7-4790K@4.6 GHz
Motherboard Asus Z97-Deluxe
Cooling Corsair H110 (2 x 140mm)(3 x 140mm case fans)
Memory 16GB Adata XPG V2 2400MHz
Video Card(s) EVGA 780 Ti Classified
Storage Intel 750 Series 400GB (AIC), Plextor M6e 256GB (M.2), 13 TB storage
Display(s) Crossover 27QW (27"@ 2560x1440)
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Cooler Master V1000
Mouse Ttsports Talon Blu
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 version 1803
Benchmark Scores Passmark CPU score = 13080
#32
I have mixed feelings about the subject. I think that it was blown way out of proportion to the actual risk, as journalists tend to do (it's their job). Individual users are unlikely to be targeted, but most of those individuals are connected in some way to larger groups that could be targeted at some point. And since the hardware and software vendors spent a lot of time and money patching these exploits, it would be careless to skip them. I did all of them, and lost only about 1-3% performance, so it was worth it, for me. My system is Haswell, older systems could take a larger hit..
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,332 (1.52/day)
Likes
1,524
Location
AK, USA
Processor Ryzen 5 2600X - 4.1 GHz
Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu with AM4 bracket
Memory PNY Anarchy-X XLR8 Red DDR4 3200 MHz C16
Video Card(s) XFX RS RX 480 GPU @ 1288 MHz - 1.040 mV from 1.175 | GDDR5 @ 2100 MHz
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB, SanDisk Ultra II 480 GB
Display(s) IP2362 OCed refresh rate - 76Hz (Freesync supported over HDMI with CRU)
Case Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC887 (dead)
Power Supply EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse Kingston HyperX Pulsefire FPS
Keyboard Logitech K520
Software Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
#33
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
252 (0.07/day)
Likes
43
Processor i7 8700K
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Plus
Memory 16 GB Adata XPG Dazzle DDR4 3000 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti Gaming 8G
Storage Samsung 850 Evo
Display(s) Samsung C24FG73 144Hz 1080p
Case Meshify C
Power Supply Superflower Leadex II Gold 650W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 600
Keyboard Steelseries Apex M750
Software Windows 10 x64 Pro
#34
I have mixed feelings about the subject. I think that it was blown way out of proportion to the actual risk, as journalists tend to do (it's their job). Individual users are unlikely to be targeted, but most of those individuals are connected in some way to larger groups that could be targeted at some point. And since the hardware and software vendors spent a lot of time and money patching these exploits, it would be careless to skip them. I did all of them, and lost only about 1-3% performance, so it was worth it, for me. My system is Haswell, older systems could take a larger hit..
What I'm curious about is if you're having a good antivirus, actually let's say a good Internet Suite with Firewall and application control/monitoring, like KIS, or Bitdefender, or why not, Micosoft's own Windows 10 Defender...
... will this be enough for an unpatched PC? Could this stop a Meltdown or Spectre attack? I'm assuming an up to date decent browser, like Chromium based ones/Firefox.

At the same time, there are no actual exploits/viruses that use these methods in the wild, or nothing that is spread enough that is important to make it into the mainstream news.

It also seems that this will be a never-ending battle. I assume it will completely go off the radar once Intel releases their new 10nm CPUs with hardware fixes. I'm pretty sure that will also mean that older platforms, including Z370, will stop receiving microcode updates as often, if at all, and everything will be quietly get forgotten. At least, until some big attack will happen.
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,667 (2.51/day)
Likes
4,254
Location
Rochester area
System Name Kreij Lives On
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.4Ghz 1.32V
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87
Cooling Reeven Okeanos Single 140MM Fan +2 SP120 White's
Memory 16GB kingston hyper x @ 2133 @ 11 11 11 32
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 ACX Copper Single fan
Storage 240gb Cruical MX200SSD/WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung S24D300/HP2071D
Case Custom Full Aluminum By ST.o.CH <3
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply HX 750i
Mouse Roccat KONE
Keyboard Rocatt ISKU with ISKUFX keycaps
Software Windows 10 +startisback
#35
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
252 (0.07/day)
Likes
43
Processor i7 8700K
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Plus
Memory 16 GB Adata XPG Dazzle DDR4 3000 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti Gaming 8G
Storage Samsung 850 Evo
Display(s) Samsung C24FG73 144Hz 1080p
Case Meshify C
Power Supply Superflower Leadex II Gold 650W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 600
Keyboard Steelseries Apex M750
Software Windows 10 x64 Pro
#36
Aida64 VP8 is the one and only test in that suite that exhibits that behavior. I get the same with 8700K. I suspect it is bugged, although others suggested it's not.
If you want to get normal behavior, go in the top menu and disable SMT/HT for the test. You'll get the full, normal score, even with the Spectre protection enabled.
Don't ask me why, cause it's above my knowledge.
 
Last edited:

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
7,667 (2.51/day)
Likes
4,254
Location
Rochester area
System Name Kreij Lives On
Processor Intel Core i5 4670K @ 4.4Ghz 1.32V
Motherboard ASUS Maximus VI Gene Z87
Cooling Reeven Okeanos Single 140MM Fan +2 SP120 White's
Memory 16GB kingston hyper x @ 2133 @ 11 11 11 32
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 ACX Copper Single fan
Storage 240gb Cruical MX200SSD/WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) Samsung S24D300/HP2071D
Case Custom Full Aluminum By ST.o.CH <3
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply HX 750i
Mouse Roccat KONE
Keyboard Rocatt ISKU with ISKUFX keycaps
Software Windows 10 +startisback
#37
there is no way in hell that test is correct
re-test with a better benchmark
if its really jumping that much then there is something seriously wrong with AMD's architecture .... O wait there is ... nm carry on
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,332 (1.52/day)
Likes
1,524
Location
AK, USA
Processor Ryzen 5 2600X - 4.1 GHz
Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu with AM4 bracket
Memory PNY Anarchy-X XLR8 Red DDR4 3200 MHz C16
Video Card(s) XFX RS RX 480 GPU @ 1288 MHz - 1.040 mV from 1.175 | GDDR5 @ 2100 MHz
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB, SanDisk Ultra II 480 GB
Display(s) IP2362 OCed refresh rate - 76Hz (Freesync supported over HDMI with CRU)
Case Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC887 (dead)
Power Supply EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse Kingston HyperX Pulsefire FPS
Keyboard Logitech K520
Software Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
#38
I assume it will completely go off the radar once Intel releases their new 10nm CPUs with hardware fixes. I'm pretty sure that will also mean that older platforms, including Z370, will stop receiving microcode updates as often, if at all, and everything will be quietly get forgotten. At least, until some big attack will happen.
Intel did announce monthly microcode updates similar to Windows updates after the latest Spectre Variant 4 (Speculative Store Bypass.)
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
8,647 (4.06/day)
Likes
10,917
Location
Massachusetts
System Name Americas cure is the death of Social Justice & Political Correctness
Processor i5 8600k
Motherboard Asrock Z370 Extreme 4
Cooling Corsair H-110i GTX
Memory 2x 4Gb Crucial Sport LT
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980 Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 evo 250Gb
Display(s) Dell Ultra Sharp Widescreen 24" 1200P
Case Fractal Design Meshify-C
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 spectrum
Keyboard AZIO MRGB Kaith Blue
Software Win 10 Professional 64 bit
Benchmark Scores Congrats USA!! on the Travel Ban.....
#39
updated... noticed no slow downs.
Yeah there's no reason to expect otherwise , I've had no slowdowns either. Plus I don't need the tinfoil hat, so it's been win-win :laugh:
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Staff member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
16,854 (3.74/day)
Likes
11,274
Location
Parkland County, Alberta
#40
And since the hardware and software vendors spent a lot of time and money patching these exploits, it would be careless to skip them.
This is the crucial factor that those that do not do these updates are clearly overlooking... the millions already spent on dealing with this issue. If it wasn't something to worry about, that money would not have been spent.

But it's fine, go on ignoring security issues and thinking you know better than the businesses that make these products and then are spending countless dollars mitigating the issue. Ignorance is bliss, after all. It's no surprise to me that the users saying they are ignoring the problem are doing so... seems quite normal given the personalities. I hate to stereotype people, but when they do it themselves... :laugh:

(and @Hood, when I say "you" above, I am not directly referring to you, obviously ;))

Yeah there's no reason to expect otherwise , I've had no slowdowns either. Plus I don't need the tinfoil hat, so it's been win-win :laugh:
This is why we can have a conversation, even though we disagree on lots... because when it's really important, we agree. :toast:
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#41
Could this stop a Meltdown or Spectre attack?
No, not even remotely.

However, a spectre (or even worse, metldown) attack both assumes local ability to run code on your system (no, it does not have to be admin). This is both far easier than it sounds, and also, far harder than some paranoia inducing people would have you believe, as the code that is to be run usually must be configured for your memory environment to be useful. Ie, a human must actively hack you, not a script.

If it wasn't something to worry about, that money would not have been spent.
It's more of a big worry at the datacenter level. That's why big money was spent: Datacenters ARE big money. It's also why they created reg keys to disable this for people who insist on the best performance, because to most end users who just game, it's not a huge deal.

I'd still patch, at days end. But I won't grill you for not doing so if you take your machine offline promptly once you realize something is up... and most likely, nothing will happen. There aren't enough humans to actively hack a low value target like a gaming box.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Staff member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
16,854 (3.74/day)
Likes
11,274
Location
Parkland County, Alberta
#42
It's more of a big worry at the datacenter level. That's why big money was spent: Datacenters ARE big money.

I'd still patch, at days end.
Part of the problem is that people don't understand how this problem could affect them, because of how the information about these issues was presented in the first place. Intel just said they'd offer quartly updates... which means they have people 24/7 dedicated to this problem. This isn't an issue that only affects data centers, at all. speculative execution is used in so many ways... including in games.

The Meltdown and Spectre exploitation techniques abuse speculative execution to access privileged memory — including that of the kernel — from a less-privileged user process such as a malicious software running on a system.
We'll see some game affected soon I think, and most would have no idea what's going on. Also awaiting disclosure of games mining while users are playing, too... :p
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#43
This isn't an issue that only affects data centers, at all. speculative execution is used in so many ways... including in games.
It isn't in THEORY. But in practice the way spectre works ensures you pretty much need to be a high value target to have it used against you.

No one is going to spend time to actively hack a gaming box. A datacenter? Maybe.

This is a classic "risk vs reward" security problem.

The Meltdown and Spectre exploitation techniques abuse speculative execution to access privileged memory — including that of the kernel — from a less-privileged user process such as a malicious software running on a system.
Yes, and you also generally have to build a map of where you are when you start getting privilged shit, because what you are given is far less than predictable. Think of it as being dropped on a random street on the globe without a map. You must do legwork to do ANYTHING useful.

This requires what I'd term an "active hacking," ie a human.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Staff member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
16,854 (3.74/day)
Likes
11,274
Location
Parkland County, Alberta
#44
I don't follow this line of thinking.

https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2018/01/07/finding-a-cpu-design-bug-in-the-xbox-360/

I knew that would be the result and yet it was still amazing. All these years later, and even after reading about Meltdown, it’s still nerdy cool to see solid proof that instructions that were not executed were causing crashes.
I agree with your sentiment in the big picture, but there are things that are being overlooked by sticking to the tact that the only problems are server-side... they are just simply more prevalent there.

How can a branch that is never taken be predicted to be taken? Easy. Branch predictors don’t maintain perfect history for every branch in the executable – that would be impractical. Instead simple branch predictors typically squish together a bunch of address bits, maybe some branch history bits as well, and index into an array of two-bit entries. Thus, the branch predict result is affected by other, unrelated branches, leading to sometimes spurious predictions. But it’s okay, because it’s “just a prediction” and it doesn’t need to be right.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#45
I don't either, if you mean the not-patching part, hence me saying I'd still patch at days end.

But I can't deny they will most likely be fine. I just don't like "most likely's" on my rig.

The risk vs reward thing is the most basic principle taught in security classes these days. Like Security 101, figuratively speaking. You have to follow that part or go home.
 

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Staff member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
16,854 (3.74/day)
Likes
11,274
Location
Parkland County, Alberta
#46
The risk vs reward thing is the most basic principle taught in security classes these days. Like Security 101, figuratively speaking. You have to follow that part or go home.
I know. But I like to live on the edge of normalcy, as you already know. That's where all the fun is.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
9,292 (2.31/day)
Likes
8,355
System Name Pioneer
Processor Intel i7 8700k @ 5.0 GHz All-Core + Uncore & AVX Offset @ 0
Motherboard ASRock Z370 Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 @ 14-14-14-34-2T
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 FTW2
Storage HGST UltraStar 7K6000 3.5" HDD 2TB 7200 RPM (w/128MBs of Cache)
Display(s) BenQ BL3200PT (a 1440p VA Panel with decent latency)
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) Onboard Toslink to Schiit Modi Multibit to Asgard 2 Amp to AKG K7XX Ruby Red Massdrop Headphones
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME 750W 80Plus Titanium
Mouse ROCCAT Kone EMP
Keyboard WASD CODE 104-Key w/ Cherry MX Green Keyswitches, Doubleshot Vortex PBT White Keycaps, Blue legends
Software Windows 10 Enterprise (From former workplace, yay no telemetry)
Benchmark Scores FSExt/TS: FSExt 10670:https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16110658 TS 8100:https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4209033
#47
I agree with your sentiment in the big picture, but there are things that are being overlooked by sticking to the tact that the only problems are server-side... they are just simply more prevalent there.
Ah, I get what you are saying, and generally, I agree. I just don't like telling others what to do with their rigs when honestly, odds are they'll be fine.

But I like to live on the edge of normalcy, as you already know.
Hey that's my job! Go away, goat man. Frog already got this lillypad.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
250 (0.08/day)
Likes
132
System Name MSI GT72S 6QE
Processor Core i7 6820HK
Motherboard Intel Sunrise Point CM236
Cooling 2 fans
Memory 2x 8 GB SO-DIMM DDR4-RAM (2133 MHz)
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M - 8192 MB
Storage 1 ssd 3 hard drives
Display(s) 17.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, LG Philips LP173WF4-SPF1 (LGD0469), IPS, Full HD
Case ??!!!
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC899
Power Supply most beautiful brick you have ever seen
#48
My desktop uses a 2500k which I think has had a microcode update...but I don't think MSI will ever bother releasing a new bios for my old mobo (MSI P67A-gd65), so most likely system will remain unpatched.
Gaming laptop is definitely getting patched (the one in my specs), just don't want to mess with its bios currently as I am afraid of bricking it. I need this system working for now :p
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
1,799 (1.39/day)
Likes
1,441
Location
On The Highway To Hell \m/
#49
The performance loss is real. I'm not stupid enough to believe otherwise. Nor do I feel an urgent need to protect myself from something that's far less likely to happen to me than getting struck by lightning...like 2 or 3 times on the same day. If that makes me "paranoid"...your definition of "paranoid" is what needs updated.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,061 (2.01/day)
Likes
366
System Name My Super Computer
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
Cooling Corsair H55 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Crucial/Micron Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX1060 6GB
Storage Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB SATA SSD
Display(s) HP 2311x and Acer G206HQL
Case CoolerMaster MasterBox Lite 5 RGB
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G3 Gold
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Logitech Wave K350
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
#50
OK, I get it. There's a performance hit. But other than with synthetic benchmarks are you really going to see the difference? OK, so you may lose a couple of frames per second but in the grand scheme of things, who cares?
 
Top