• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Melt Down Spectre update (have you)?

fullinfusion

Vanguard Beta Tester
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
9,909 (1.67/day)
Has any one deliberately refused like me to not update the Bios micro code bios updates and also M$ patches?

Tell me if you did or not and the reason why.

I have a new, actually a few bios updates and one I do see is to do with Samsung NVME SSD fixes but I still haven't updated.. I wished I could have the Bios update without the firmware specter update involved :eek:

 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
18,914 (2.86/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + some headphones, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
VR HMD Acer Mixed Reality Headset
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
M$, so edgy. I wish using that term resulted in an automatic warning for being bloody to old and stupid.

Haven't updated anything since january since I have no internet at home, so no.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
6,402 (1.44/day)
Location
Florida
System Name natr0n-PC
Processor Ryzen 5950x/5600x
Motherboard B450 AORUS M
Cooling EK AIO - 6 fan action
Memory Patriot - Viper Steel DDR4 (B-Die)(4x8GB)
Video Card(s) EVGA 3070ti FTW
Storage Various
Display(s) PIXIO IPS 240Hz 1080P
Case Thermaltake Level 20 VT
Audio Device(s) LOXJIE D10 + Kinter Amp + 6 Bookshelf Speakers Sony+JVC+Sony
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex III ARGB 80+ Gold 650W
Software XP/7/8.1/10
Benchmark Scores http://valid.x86.fr/79kuh6
No spectre/etc updates
I always use official stock windows iso's. Then disable updates from the get go.

The only thing I update is gpu drivers on occasion if needed.

I don't like things/updates stealing performance. I dont even use antivirus programs on my systems.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,457 (0.37/day)
Location
Australia
This whole mess with Spectre & Meltdown just shows how the industry has concentrated on IPC efficiency with CPU design & outright speed at the expense of practical issues like security.
But on the other hand, I kinda give thanks to those hackers & practitioners of malware for exposing this in the 1st place.

One of the ironies of life I guess.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
18,914 (2.86/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + some headphones, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
VR HMD Acer Mixed Reality Headset
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
I don't like things/updates stealing performance. I dont even use antivirus programs on my systems.

So you have a computer for the purpose of not using it?
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
7,412 (3.05/day)
Location
Poland
System Name Purple rain
Processor 10.5 thousand 4.2G 1.1v
Motherboard Zee 490 Aorus Elite
Cooling Noctua D15S
Memory 16GB 4133 CL16-16-16-31 Viper Steel
Video Card(s) RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage SU900 128,8200Pro 1TB,850 Pro 512+256+256,860 Evo 500,XPG950 480, Skyhawk 2TB
Display(s) Acer XB241YU+Dell S2716DG
Case P600S Silent w. Alpenfohn wing boost 3 ARGBT+ fans
Audio Device(s) K612 Pro w. FiiO E10k DAC,W830BT wireless
Power Supply Superflower Leadex Gold 850W
Mouse G903 lightspeed+powerplay,G403 wireless + Steelseries DeX + Roccat rest
Keyboard HyperX Alloy SilverSpeed (w.HyperX wrist rest),Razer Deathstalker
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores A LOT
No, I did no updates, I don't give a crap, this whole thing is blown out of proportion. People whine about those computer bugs, meanwhile I don't give a crap about that but I had my wallet with money and documents stolen twice this year. Hacker attack ain't the one to f**k you up.

Still,it says I'm meltdown protected, just no specter.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
866 (0.25/day)
Processor ryzen 5 5600x
Motherboard AB350m Pro4
Cooling custom loop
Memory TEAMGROUP T-Force TXKD416G3600HC18ADC01 16gbs XMP
Video Card(s) HP GTX1650 super 4gb
Storage MZVLB256HBHQ-000H1 PM981a (256GB)/3TB HDD
Display(s) Nitro XF243Y Pbmiiprx
Case Rosewill CULLINAN
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Corsair 750w
Mouse Best Buy Insignia
Keyboard Best Buy Insignia
Software Win 10 pro
i think people should care about this because the last thing you want is somebody hacking into a company/government computer that is holding your information such as credit cards and other valuable information. as for the average everyday pc user this whole thing was blown out of proportion. this is mainly a concern for corporations and government entity's. if an individual is on the receiving end of any attack as intense as a spectre or meltdown then its more then likely from extremely bad luck, porn or some other reason and problem they need to get solved.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
2,582 (0.41/day)
Location
Oulu, Finland
System Name Enslaver :)
Processor Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming B650-Plus
Cooling CPU: Noctua NH-D14 with LED fans, Case: 2 front in - 1 rear out
Memory 2x16GB Kingston Fury Beast RGB 6000MHz
Video Card(s) ASUS TUF RTX 4070Ti OC
Storage Samsung Evo Plus 1TB NVMe , internal WD Red 4TB for storage, WD Book 8TB
Display(s) LG CX OLED 65"
Case Lian Li LANCOOL II Mesh C Performance
Audio Device(s) HDMI audio powering Dolby Digital audio on 5.1 Z960 speaker system
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse Logitech G700
Keyboard ASUS Strix Tactic Pro
Software Windows 11 Pro x64
With my z77 mobo and a i5 3570k i didnt do a bios microcode update agaihst this treat but my z370 mobo i did it the first day i got it. with an old cpu the performance drop is much more. with a 8700k its neglegtible
 

fullinfusion

Vanguard Beta Tester
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
9,909 (1.67/day)
No spectre/etc updates
I always use official stock windows iso's. Then disable updates from the get go.

The only thing I update is gpu drivers on occasion if needed.

I don't like things/updates stealing performance. I dont even use antivirus programs on my systems.
hear hear same here, thank you!
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
972 (0.15/day)
Location
Malaysia
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard Gigabyte B450M-S2H
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu Mark II
Memory 2 x 16GB SK Hynix OEM DDR4-3200 @ 3666 18-20-18-36
Video Card(s) Colorful RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB
Storage 250GB WD BLACK SN750 M.2 + 4TB WD Red Plus + 4TB WD Purple
Display(s) AOpen 27HC5R 27" 1080p 165Hz
Case COUGAR MX440 Mesh RGB
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium HD + Kurtzweil KS-40A bookshelf
Power Supply Corsair CX750M
Mouse Razer Deathadder Essential
Keyboard Cougar Attack2 Cherry MX Black
Software Windows 10 Pro 22H1 x64
I've updated the latest beta BIOS for my asrock motherboard. Noticeable slowdown, even boot took longer now. Dont know the jittery I noticed when gaming is because of this or not but I did noticed it back then when doing Windows update. I reverted it back and it becomes better. Kinda regreted updating it
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
2,873 (0.85/day)
System Name The beast and the little runt.
Processor Ryzen 5 5600X - Ryzen 9 5950X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING - ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero X570
Cooling Noctua NH-L9x65 SE-AM4a - NH-D15 chromax.black with IPPC Industrial 3000 RPM 120/140 MM fans.
Memory G.SKILL TRIDENT Z ROYAL GOLD/SILVER 32 GB (2 x 16 GB and 4 x 8 GB) 3600 MHz CL14-15-15-35 1.45 volts
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 4060 OC LOW PROFILE - GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC
Storage Samsung 980 PRO 1 TB + 2 TB - Samsung 870 EVO 4 TB - 2 x WD RED PRO 16 GB + WD ULTRASTAR 22 TB
Display(s) Asus 27" TUF VG27AQL1A and a Dell 24" for dual setup
Case Phanteks Enthoo 719/LUXE 2 BLACK
Audio Device(s) Onboard on both boards
Power Supply Phanteks Revolt X 1200W
Mouse Logitech G903 Lightspeed Wireless Gaming Mouse
Keyboard Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum
Software WINDOWS 10 PRO 64 BITS on both systems
Benchmark Scores Se more about my 2 in 1 system here: kortlink.dk/2ca4x
No i have not and i have no plans on doing so either.

For older systems performance loss can be around 10-15 % and i am not ready to give up on that.


On another thread for updates on x58 gave other problems as well like oc on blck wheree no longer working properly and cpu seems to run hotter to.

Se thread here.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/new-microcode-for-bloomfield-and-gulftown.243353/

So no i am not touching this trash. My system runs really great now and i dont want to ruin that with these updates.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,780 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I've updated and don't see any issues. Performance is stellar.

That being said, not updating mobo BIOS... you're just one of the millions who don't have the update, and a potential target for any large scale exploit attempt on these vulnerabilities. Is it a huge risk? No, but its a risk regardless, and one that you can mitigate. Considering the target group is pretty big, the likelihood of this happening at some point is very significant. People only think 'Me? Im not important or valuable to hack'. No, but when you are one of a few million, that is one hell of a sweet target. And on top of that, you've already wasted your chance of fixing the leak by not updating, so don't expect MS to cover your ass after that fact...
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
387 (0.07/day)
Processor i7 8700K
Motherboard MSI Z370 Gaming Plus
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S + NF-A12x25 PWM + 4xNF-A14 PWM
Memory 16 GB Adata XPG Dazzle DDR4 3000 MHz CL16
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti Gaming 8G
Storage Samsung 970 EVO Plus, Samsung 850 Evo
Display(s) Samsung C24FG73 144Hz 1080p
Case Fractal Design Meshify C
Audio Device(s) Steelseries Arctis 3
Power Supply Superflower Leadex II Gold 650W
Mouse Steelseries Rival 600
Keyboard Steelseries Apex 7
Software Windows 11 Pro
I've updated to the last BIOS. It contains even the (what i assume to be) experimental Spectre V4 microcode, Speculative Store Bypass. It didn't enable automatically like the past ones, even though both Windows and BIOS support it, so I left it disabled.
There is some performance hit, but it's so small it's imperceptible for what I do with the PC, for example having 200 instead of 205 score in Cinebench, or 1450 instead of 1460, which can even be put to background activity. I think the SSD performance was affected more, but only in Magician, not Crystal Disk Mark or ATTO. Weird.
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,740 (1.71/day)
Location
Rochester area
System Name RPC MK2.5
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling Enermax ETX-T50RGB
Memory CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s) LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse Kone burst Pro
Keyboard EVGA Z15
Software Windows 11 +startisallback
Nope not worth the performance hit even went so far as to flash a custom bios that uses the last pre spect microcode
disabled the osside migigations via powershell
 

INSTG8R

Vanguard Beta Tester
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
7,955 (1.13/day)
Location
Canuck in Norway
System Name Hellbox 5.1(same case new guts)
Processor Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard MSI X570S MAG Torpedo Max
Cooling TT Kandalf L.C.S.(Water/Air)EK Velocity CPU Block/Noctua EK Quantum DDC Pump/Res
Memory 2x16GB Gskill Trident Neo Z 3600 CL16
Video Card(s) Powercolor Hellhound 7900XTX
Storage 970 Evo Plus 500GB 2xSamsung 850 Evo 500GB RAID 0 1TB WD Blue Corsair MP600 Core 2TB
Display(s) Alienware QD-OLED 34” 3440x1440 144hz 10Bit VESA HDR 400
Case TT Kandalf L.C.S.
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster ZX/Logitech Z906 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic TX~’850 Platinum
Mouse G502 Hero
Keyboard G19s
VR HMD Oculus Quest 2
Software Win 10 Pro x64
Sure. If my Mobo gets a BIOS 3 years later I’m gonna flash it.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,780 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I have yet to read a single "ooh lokk what happened to me / this guy" post related to Meltdown of Spectre

Of course, individuals never get targeted, only groups. When a Spectre or Meltdown malware is deployed, it will hit a massive group instead. You dont write something like that to target one guy, and it is likely a one shot as well because the first big exploit in the wild will cause people to respond.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,204 (1.24/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Ryzen 7 7700X Super Computer
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Motherboard Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling DeepCool AK620 with Arctic Silver 5
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 EXPO (CL30)
Video Card(s) XFX AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE
Storage Samsung 980 EVO 1 TB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV272U (DisplayPort) and Acer Nitro XV270U (DisplayPort)
Case Lian Li LANCOOL II MESH C
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound / Sony WH-XB910N Bluetooth Headphones
Power Supply MSI A850GF
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Steelseries
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
Yes, I have performed the update. As your screenshot says, your system will not experience the supposedly "huge" performance losses that older chips will experience. OK, so you may lose a few frames per second on a modern processor but are you really going to be able to tell the difference other than in synthetic benchmarks? Nope, not at all.

Now if you have an older processor then yes... you're going to see a performance hit but that's to be expected. Time to upgrade. Perhaps give some money AMD's way.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
555 (0.18/day)
Location
In the middle of nowhere
System Name Scrapped Parts, Unite !
Processor Ryzen 5 3600 @4.0 Ghz
Motherboard MSI B450-A Pro MAX
Cooling Stock
Memory Team Group Elite 16 GB 3133Mhz
Video Card(s) Colorful iGame GeForce GTX1060 Vulcan U 6G
Storage Hitachi 500 GB, Sony 1TB, KINGSTON 400A 120GB // Samsung 160 GB
Display(s) HP 2009f
Case Xigmatek Asgard Pro // Cooler Master Centurion 5
Power Supply OCZ ModXStream Pro 500 W
Mouse Logitech G102
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores Minesweeper 30fps, Tetris 40 fps, with overheated CPU and GPU
Never update windows ( in fact I disable immediately windows update in services as soon as first time boot in desktop)
Never install Spectre/Meltdown patch

because it really annoy me when CPU usage 100 when idle
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,740 (1.71/day)
Location
Rochester area
System Name RPC MK2.5
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling Enermax ETX-T50RGB
Memory CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s) LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse Kone burst Pro
Keyboard EVGA Z15
Software Windows 11 +startisallback
Never update windows ( in fact I disable immediately windows update in services as soon as first time boot in desktop)
Never install Spectre/Meltdown patch

because it really annoy me when CPU usage 100 when idle
disabling all windows updates is stupid and is exactly the reason microsoft moved to force enable
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,204 (1.24/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Ryzen 7 7700X Super Computer
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Motherboard Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling DeepCool AK620 with Arctic Silver 5
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 EXPO (CL30)
Video Card(s) XFX AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE
Storage Samsung 980 EVO 1 TB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV272U (DisplayPort) and Acer Nitro XV270U (DisplayPort)
Case Lian Li LANCOOL II MESH C
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound / Sony WH-XB910N Bluetooth Headphones
Power Supply MSI A850GF
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Steelseries
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
Must... not... talk... about... the... lack... of... security. *slaps face and walks away from thread*
 

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,740 (1.71/day)
Location
Rochester area
System Name RPC MK2.5
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling Enermax ETX-T50RGB
Memory CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s) LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse Kone burst Pro
Keyboard EVGA Z15
Software Windows 11 +startisallback
Must... not... talk... about... the... lack... of... security.
there is no need to talk about it when he gets all the malware and no UWP apps will run because windows update is not running then he will find out

there's a HUGE difference between disable a specific fix and not updating at all
the whole spectr thing was way overblown and as I said in the original thread these fixes are NOT required in 80% of use cases and effectively zero percent on the end user desktop

as programs can be written to mitigate it without nuking performance system wide (e.g chrome )
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,874 (1.02/day)
Location
USA
System Name Computer of Theseus
Processor Intel i9-12900KS: 50x Pcore multi @ 1.18Vcore (target 1.275V -100mv offset)
Motherboard EVGA Z690 Classified
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S, 2xThermalRight TY-143, 4xNoctua NF-A12x25,3xNF-A12x15, 2xAquacomputer Splitty9Active
Memory G-Skill Trident Z5 (32GB) DDR5-6000 C36 F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce 3060 XC Black Gaming 12GB
Storage 1x Samsung 970 Pro 512GB NVMe (OS), 2x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB (data 1 and 2), ASUS BW-16D1HT
Display(s) Dell S3220DGF 32" 2560x1440 165Hz Primary, Dell P2017H 19.5" 1600x900 Secondary, Ergotron LX arms.
Case Lian Li O11 Air Mini
Audio Device(s) Audiotechnica ATR2100X-USB, El Gato Wave XLR Mic Preamp, ATH M50X Headphones, Behringer 302USB Mixer
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex Platinum SE 1000W 80+ Platinum White
Mouse Zowie EC3-C
Keyboard Vortex Multix 87 Winter TKL (Gateron G Pro Yellow)
Software Win 10 LTSC 21H2
I put the bios updates with the security fixes on the two Z370 boards I have. AsRock's bios updates are an easy process.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,707 (0.81/day)
Location
On The Highway To Hell \m/
Nope. Not havin' it. No BIOS updates available for any of my motherboards anyway. Not that I'd use them even if there were. :rolleyes:
inspectre.PNG
 
Top