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Microsoft Certification(s)

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#51
Yes, four year in Information Systems Management and International Business.
When are you set to complete it?(I have many years before I complete my degrees)

Go job searching and see if the positions you would like later ask for you to have those certifications in question. Then again you may have already done that. ;)
 
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Easy Rhino

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#52
Easy Rhino, are you saying you would gladly take as many pay cuts as management could give you. All just to remain competitive if the country was flooded with people with your skill set even if you worked hard for a given company half your life? Knowing that now you must find a way to provide for your family? Then you would be Atlas, and you would most certainly shrug under the weight of it all. My job is protected as the private corporation I work for is owned by my family. I still care about my fellow man even though I hold a safe and secure position. There is something called a fair wage. Did you know if there was no minimum wage people would be paid even less. Also unions were started to protect our countries workers. Unions also need to be regulated though as they too end up overstepping their bounds like in the case of GM.

If they become citizens it isn't a drain on an economy. Requiring citizenship is the best policy. Canada does it to shield their market and it is working quite well. Sometimes other countries can get certain things right and we can learn from that rather than worshiping the free market. There used to be more nationalistic views in the USA like frowning upon such practices as outsourcing to save money by hiring people that didn't have citizenship. Aside from say the railroad industry where it was actually necessary. India is very nationalistic which is good IMO. If the tables were turned I do not believe they would allow it TBH. But that would be a good thing while showing a strength of character on their part. Also if the quality of labor was better it wouldn't be so bad. Most of their best techies must be staying in India. The problem roots from bringing the labor in until they get together and protest the low wages and then they send them back. It isn't the fault of the Indians. They are doing what they should by taking the opportunity when it is given to them. I have a problem with the screening process basically. It is the fault of the management. Bad management plagues so many companies.

Nike treats many third world countries badly that are far poorer than India. They set up shop until the people request better benefits like cleaner running water and better sewage infrastructure for their families to survive. So when they leave there is a mass starvation lowering the population to the same if not smaller than when Nike set up the sweatshops. That is the fault of immoral management that answers to no regulation.

Of course there is also bad regulation like how people use the EU to force out competition but that would take 20 pages to fully explain. :(

I am saying good regulation would make it easier for native citizens to find jobs in a line of work they have been trained for while keeping the money in the economy. Therefore it wouldn't be drained so easily. Potentially effecting the OPs job market. Yes the certs are needed but not just the certs by themselves.
Back on topic:
Getting a proper accredited degree clears you for higher pay regardless. Most management positions require a bachelors or masters anyway. I believe the OP said he was getting a four year degree already though.
no, i am saying that if i can't compete in the market then i don't deserve to be paid higher than somebody who can. if you had more skills than your coworkers would you be happy making less than them? of course not. nationality has nothing to do with it. in fact, basing pay on someone's nationality sets a very dangerous precedent to a free people.
 
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#53
So around ~$60,000 is a decent starting year's pay considering what some of the people are making throughout the US with similar jobs?
 
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#54
no, i am saying that if i can't compete in the market then i don't deserve to be paid higher than somebody who can. if you had more skills than your coworkers would you be happy making less than them? of course not. nationality has nothing to do with it. in fact, basing pay on someone's nationality sets a very dangerous precedent to a free people.
I am not saying by nationality. I am saying by citizenship to stop a migrant drain of an economy. Read the whole post. :laugh:

If anything I am saying they should become citizens and make the same higher wages the native citizens do. It isn't fair otherwise as it simply feeds off the desperation and lower standard of living India has. That is why I gave the Nike example because they move on to more desperate people every time they end up asking for a fair wage. It also minimizes the benefit to everyone except themselves by using this borderline slave labor by north American standards. Like hiring illegal immigrants it lowers standards and hurts an economies wealth disparity.

So around ~$60,000 is a decent starting year's pay considering what some of the people are making throughout the US with similar jobs?
That is very dependant on the area and the area's cost of living.
 

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#55
I am not saying by nationality. I am saying by citizenship to stop a migrant drain of an economy. Read the whole post. :laugh:

If anything I am saying they should become citizens and make the same higher wages the native citizens do. It isn't fair otherwise as it simply feeds off the desperation and lower standard of living India has. That is why I gave the Nike example because they move on to more desperate people every time they end up asking for a fair wage. It also minimizes the benefit to everyone except themselves by using this borderline slave labor by north American standards. Like hiring illegal immigrants it lowers standards and hurts an economies wealth disparity.
well of course they should become citizens. but what then, they will still work for less and you will still be upset at the immigrants who are taking "your" jobs. also, you are confusing outsourcing and immigrant labor.
 

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#56
Talk about a derailed thread :shadedshu
 

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#57
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#58
well of course they should become citizens. but what then, they will still work for less and you will still be upset at the immigrants who are taking "your" jobs. also, you are confusing outsourcing and immigrant labor.
Now your are just implying stereotypes. Took er jerbs! It isn't really outsourcing or immigrant labor if they are citizens. Despite the fact they might pay to fly them in could technically be considered outsourcing. I think to work here someone should be a legal citizen. I think citizenship should be easier but illegal immigration should be more pursued as a crime. Everbody should be on the "books" and paying taxes.

I wouldn't be upset at all because when you would live in the USA as a citizen you can't be sent back to your place of origin if you ask for a fair wage. The Indians would band together and demand a fair wage. Indian Americans have as much unity as the rest of us. In fact I would say they have a stronger since of community. I gather this from living in an apartment complex with hundreds of them and hang out with them at our apartment's various facilities(pools, weight room etc.).

Talk about a derailed thread :shadedshu
You probably didn't read the whole posts.

Explaining why some job markets can't be penetrated by certs alone is on topic. On topic in virtually essay form.

reverze, would you be open to relocating or are you trying to stay in Penn? Have you looked on Dice yet?

Easy Rhino, I think we better understand each other's views on the subject now. Thank you for the conversation. :)
 
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Kreij

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#59
All of the posts in this thread, by all involved, have been interesting and well presented without it turning into a flaming disaster. There has been no name calling or user bashing that I can see.

I appreciate that.
As one of the mods' of this section I ask you to please continue and keep it on track.
 
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#60
Not trying to sound like an idiot but
My bro said if you went for a military commission for say 3-7 years
you could likely make 100k or better under Military sub contractors..
once out and even while in 70k ..
He did 21 years and was gonna do 30 until a sub contractor made him an offer he really could not refuse...
Just thought i'd mention that
 

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#61
A+ is general information, not needed to actually fix anything but it looks great and proves you know what you are talking about. Bunch of kids at my school that have obtained the A+ through simply studying can't diagnose and fix a computer if they had instructions detailing exactly what to do. A+ is rather simply and doesn't help your actual troubleshooting much but it is a global certification that anyone would recognize and is at the very bottom of the IT chain (the most necessary).

A+ is definatly the best thing to have certification wise. after that is the Net+ the net+ doesnt give you any specific title like the A+ would (IT Support Technician, Depot Technician, what ever the second test you take for the full certification) but it does give a great background knowledge of protocols and routing.

The Net+ is not needed to carry on with any other certifications but it is highly suggested. There is a career tree microsoft has visually showing the routes taken to earn such titles as systems engineer, all which start at the bottom at compTIA's A+ which i will try to dig up and post.
 

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#62
Another good thing about the A+ and the Net+ is that Microsoft would allow them as electives for some of their certs. At least they used to...
 
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#63
How did you guys study for the exams? Is it best to just read a book instead of paying for some expensive courses?

Let's say for A+ and some of the Microsoft certifications.
 
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#64
studying for the exams goes two ways really...

the first, and one i recommend - is to use their included study courses and even buy one. spend the time to learn the ins and outs of the material. many questions are tricky so think about them as simply as possible, over-complicating the question and feeling smart is asking for trouble.

the second, worse, and more common way is to find "testking" or similar, and memorize the questions. there are a few hundred possible and they will choose less than a hundred for the real test normally, so not only are you wasting 2/3 of your time memorizing, you are not actually learning anything.

they will direct you to good resources on their individual sites, or just google "a+ study guide" ... there are virtual workshops and everything to help you work through it all online.

and as others have said, certs are helpful and more important as time goes on, but they are not the be all to end all. if you are looking for a job at a BIG company, a cert helps. if you are willing to work for smaller companies (generally means more responsibility), than i have yet to meet one who knows what the certs are, let alone asks for them.

all things being equal, the guy with the cert will beat the guy without. but how often are things equal? focus more on what you know and do well, and WANT TO DO, and the certs are secondary... at least to me :)

i've been lucky enough to land some good jobs without certs, college, etc though. I graduated high school, started a business, and now focus on a single client full time .... i might as well be working for them...

but i never have been asked for a cert, and i have worked in a few bigger places as well. confidence and knowledge is more important than a piece of paper.
 

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#65
How did you guys study for the exams? Is it best to just read a book instead of paying for some expensive courses?

Let's say for A+ and some of the Microsoft certifications.
they will release a concepts packet that lists everything you need to know but not in depth. google that, read a book and make flash cards from the two is what i would do.

also do the practice testing, this helps a lot here are a few things to check out for getting ready for your A+

learnkey (onlineexpert.com)
Transcenders (not sure who makes them, its a series of tests getting you ready for the exam)

they will also have lab books and what not giving you hands on experience
 
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#66
Thank you both for the tips!
 

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#67
Stdying depends a lot on your current level of knowledge for the material. If you are not familiar with it, you will probably need to take some kind of study course, whether that be through school or through online/paper reference. If you are somewhat confident in your level of knowledge, you should just look into free certification sample tests. I took the Supporting Desktop Application cert for my MCDST without ever taking a class on the subject. I aced all the free sample tests I could find on it, so I wasn't worried, especially with the free Second Chance offer from MS.

Other certs I've taken I needed a little more to a lot more. I knew a bunch about MS OS's, but little about networking. Free sample tests are a great way to test your skill level, plus you get to see what type of questions they can ask & how they think.
 
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#68
Definitely will look into those as well, Thank you!
 
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#70
Great find, thank you for this!
 

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#71
http://www.mcmcse.com/

Probably the best online resource for certifications. They have study guides and tests.