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Monitor technology discussion

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#26
You want a good IPS monitor?

Search for H-IPS or S-IPS, they are usually found in higher end monitors like U3011/ZR30W etc, not e-IPS.

Ninja edit, the best IPS monitor I've had the pleasure to work with was a Nec 24 inch, can't remember the name but it was stunningly color accurate with insane viewing angles.

This one I believe.

http://www.nec-display-solutions.co...nce241.xhtml?cat=Colour&realm=products/choice
 
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#27
Dell U2713H - Screen Viewing Angles - YouTube

Just checked that monitor also and still enough color distortion is there. Yes better than TN but not by a large margin. Whatever you guys say, I am not convinced by IPS technology. It may be better than TN but not perfect unlike display qualities on CRTs.
 
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#28
Dell U2713H - Screen Viewing Angles - YouTube

Just checked that monitor also and still enough color distortion is there. Yes better than TN but not by a large margin. Whatever you guys say, I am not convinced by IPS technology. It may be better than TN but not perfect unlike display qualities on CRTs.
So stop trolling and feel good about your 10 year old monitor instead of creating pointless threads where you encourage discussion but arent willing to listen to others points lol
 

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#29
dudeee go to sleep. its like 4AM :p
 
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#30
Just checked that monitor also and still enough color distortion is there. Yes better than TN but not by a large margin. Whatever you guys say, I am not convinced by IPS technology. It may be better than TN but not perfect unlike display qualities on CRTs.
you keep referencing Dell screens, try looking up other manufacturers and IPS panel types. Just linking to certain Dell monitors isn't doing any favors for yourself....
 
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#31
I agree that a very good quality TN panel will have horizontal viewing angles comparable to VA, PLS and IPS panels (but never vertical). I do not agree that a TN panel can ever come close to the color accuracy of VA, PLS and IPS.

LG.Display is, for all intents and purposes, the only IPS manufacturer. AUO and CMO produce the odd one, but those are using LG's patented tech, and are pretty much identical in performance and specs. Samsung's PLS is an attempt at innovation in plane-based pixel manipulation, but that hasn't gone far enough from IPS to be immediately distinguishable.

High quality backlight and an intelligent pixel transitions management (especially RTC) are paramount for a good picture quality. The panel is as good as it will be, there aren't too many ways to improve, other than switching to an entirely different tech.

AMOLED has a somewhat limited and irregular color gamut, so much so that I don't see it as suitable for professional use. Plasma seems to be the best for both contrast and color quality, but image stability is fully forfeited - to avoid heavy burn-in.

Holo projectors, anyone?
 
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#32
response times also arent an issue IMO my LG has 5ms and my Phillips has 7ms and they are both just fine
 
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#33
Forget IPS. PLS at 120 Hz all the way. Good response time too. Especially for $300.
 

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#34
i doubt i even require 300$ a month for my food :p
 
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#35
So stop trolling and feel good about your 10 year old monitor instead of creating pointless threads where you encourage discussion but arent willing to listen to others points lol
Oh yeah I was very much listening. But still I was not convinced.

dudeee go to sleep. its like 4AM :p
LOL I am nocturnal. :p

Forget IPS. PLS at 120 Hz all the way. Good response time too. Especially for $300.
This is the thing. The perfect thing now I guess.
 

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#36
thats my line....
 

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#37
one monitor is perfect..... CRT :rockout:
OLED for the win. I was promised that years ago. :(

Anyway yeah at this point it's almost trolling, or at least spamming.
 

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#38
Personally I don't get what the hang up is with viewing angles ? Most people sit bang on square and about 2.5-3ft from the screen.
Refresh rate also isn't a concern even 8ms is technically enough although I would recommend 5ms as a minimum personally.

Mac :)
 

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#39
Personally I don't get what the hang up is with viewing angles ? Most people sit bang on square and about 2.5-3ft from the screen.
Refresh rate also isn't a concern even 8ms is technically enough although I would recommend 5ms as a minimum personally.

Mac :)
most "other" people have friends. more people = need for better viewing angles.

also who calculates and sits in the center every time? thats OCD
 
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#40
Personally I don't get what the hang up is with viewing angles ? Most people sit bang on square and about 2.5-3ft from the screen.
...and then they decide to put their feet up on the table. Or change to some other sitting/lying position for whatever reason. Sure, most monitors allow for various adjustments, but that's a PITA to do often. Also, what if I like to have someone (or multiple people) sitting next to (or around) me, wouldn't it be nice if they didn't have contrast drops and color shifts?

Refresh rate also isn't a concern even 8ms is technically enough although I would recommend 5ms as a minimum personally.
It's not about the number, it's about how you achieve it. I don't care much for 2-5 ms GtG monitors with painfully obvious RTC artifacts and shimmering. I'd much rather have 8-16 ms without much ghosting.

And no, faster response does not automatically mean less ghosting.

## EDIT ##
Thanks ddd for beating me to the punch :p
 
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#41
Some you have been saying that I am "spamming" this post or "trolling" you. Well answer this.

Pic from my old CCFL TN LCD monitor LG W1943S(19" Widescreen-1360*768,5ms)



And pic from my new LED TN LCD monitor LG E2042TC(20" Widescreen- 1600*900)



Why so much difference? Ps. dont say it is backlight bleed. It is just because of the viewing angle this is happening. Its like a curve. I have studied the panel and found that the LED strip is at the right side of the panel. YES IT LOOKS LIKE BACKLIGHT BLEED! Anyone able to answer this question? That's why I made this thread. There are a lot of variations in the same technology panels even. But I want to know, what are those?

The place where I live, This LG E2042TC and Dell IN2030M costs the same! Yet, it is known by all that the Dell IN2030M features much better viewing angle. If that was the case, why is LG selling this monitor at all at a similar price? And why are the people buying it also in-spite of knowing its biggest con-the viewing angle? I will wait for the reply. Thank you everyone.
 

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#42
...and then they decide to put their feet up on the table. Or change to some other sitting/lying position for whatever reason. Sure, most monitors allow for various adjustments, but that's a PITA to do often. Also, what if I like to have someone (or multiple people) sitting next to (or around) me, wouldn't it be nice if they didn't have contrast drops and color shifts?



It's not about the number, it's about how you achieve it. I don't care much for 2-5 ms GtG monitors with painfully obvious RTC artifacts and shimmering. I'd much rather have 8-16 ms without much ghosting.

And no, faster response does not automatically mean less ghosting.

## EDIT ##
Thanks ddd for beating me to the punch :p
Wow, talk about hostile really "Thanks ddd for beating me to the punch " :shadedshu
When I have friends around or want to lounge I don't do it around my Monitor I switch to the big screen TV
The discussion is about Monitors,.
I don't know anyone who games/watches movies or does anything that would require people to be around a Monitor these days.
Everyone I know does as I do and uses the big screen TV.

I am fully aware of the myriad of things that come together to affect the image your monitor produces.
Why you mention ghosting is beyond me as I certainly did not.

Mac
 
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#43
You know guys that it takes more latency on an IPS panel to show ghosting compared to a TN right?

Just wanted to add this between the viewing angle discussion/flame.
 
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#44
Wow, talk about hostile really "Thanks ddd for beating me to the punch " :shadedshu
When I have friends around or want to lounge I don't do it around my Monitor I switch to the big screen TV
The discussion is about Monitors,.
I don't know anyone who games/watches movies or does anything that would require people to be around a Monitor these days.
Everyone I know does as I do and uses the big screen TV.

I am fully aware of the myriad of things that come together to affect the image your monitor produces.
Why you mention ghosting is beyond me as I certainly did not.

Mac
Agreed. But viewing angle is also affecting other factors like the black level even when you sit straight. Look at my earlier post. We always want the best with the money we have. So monitor would not be an exception.
Ps. Anyone having answers to my previous post?
 

Mactronix

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#45
I believe that PLS will probably become quite popular.
The brightness is superior and much more importantly these days it has lower power consumption and is cheaper to produce while having the same viewing angle advantages of IPS

Mac :)
 

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#46
Some you have been saying that I am "spamming" this post or "trolling" you. Well answer this.

Pic from my old CCFL TN LCD monitor LG W1943S(19" Widescreen-1360*768,5ms)

http://imageshack.us/a/img11/8277/dsc02165bm.jpg

And pic from my new LED TN LCD monitor LG E2042TC(20" Widescreen- 1600*900)

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/122/20130519192910.jpg

Why so much difference? Ps. dont say it is backlight bleed. It is just because of the viewing angle this is happening. Its like a curve. I have studied the panel and found that the LED strip is at the right side of the panel. YES IT LOOKS LIKE BACKLIGHT BLEED! Anyone able to answer this question? That's why I made this thread. There are a lot of variations in the same technology panels even. But I want to know, what are those?

The place where I live, This LG E2042TC and Dell IN2030M costs the same! Yet, it is known by all that the Dell IN2030M features much better viewing angle. If that was the case, why is LG selling this monitor at all at a similar price? And why are the people buying it also in-spite of knowing its biggest con-the viewing angle? I will wait for the reply. Thank you everyone.
because people will be gullible and foolish.

just like you bought this panel, someone else just as foolish.ignorant would make the same mistake easily. most people really dont look into what they are buying, just because the price is the same doesnt mean its the same quality.
 
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#47
because people will be gullible and foolish.

just like you bought this panel, someone else just as foolish.ignorant would make the same mistake easily. most people really dont look into what they are buying, just because the price is the same doesnt mean its the same quality.
Ok agreed, I was in a hurry and ignorant! Care to show how it happens actually? Both are TN panels!
 
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#48
My question is why are the new technologies especially AMOLED not implemented in today's monitors?
AMOLED is merely Active Matrix OLED, or touch screen OLED. It makes sense for small phones people use for only so long then upgrade, and maybe even tablets if they upgrade every few years and they don't mind having no resale value on the one they're upgrading from, but OLED tech is inherently short life span due to the blue emitters deteriorating rapidly. This is because OLED uses organic film, which is susceptible to deterioration from humidity in the air.

There's also PLED tech (polymer vs organic film), which was discovered by Cambridge U students long ago, whom formed Cavendish Labs. Original PLED diodes were tested to last 100,000 hrs, about the life of CRT tech. However recent articles I've read about Sumitomo and Pansonic's PLED TV projects indicates when used in color displays, the lifespan drops dramatically to only twice that of OLED, or 20,000 hrs.

Flawed as they may be, a typical LCD lasts 60,000 hrs. Even with OLED's crisp, accurate colors, high contrast, deep blacks, lack of black crush, lack of motion blur, and quick response time, a 10,000 - 20,000 hr lifespan is not acceptable for most buying expensive TVs or monitors.

OLED/PLED is tech that can potentially be mass produced at a lower cost than LCD, since the screens can literally be made with printer tech, but it's going to be hard to get early adopters for the $10,000 55" TVs such as LG's new OLED when the lifespan is so short.

Even once the prices come down, they'll have to be around half the price of current TVs and monitors for mainstream consumers to accept a lifespan of no more than 1/3 that of an LCD. Beautiful picture quality isn't everything. Practicality counts for a lot, esp with a lingering recession.

There's also advances being made in OLET tech, which is being studied by Michelle Muccini in an Italian research lab. It's similar but uses tiny transistors vs diodes and like OLED/PLED needs no backlight, but I've seen no talk of it having any longer lifespan. Since it's acronym starts with an O, it would appear it too is organic based. They only talk about the transistors being more power efficient. That would make it a lot better on battery powered devices, but for devices that plug in like TVs and monitors, I've yet to see a real break through that doesn't have serious tradeoffs.
 
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#49
Ok agreed, I was in a hurry and ignorant! Care to show how it happens actually? Both are TN panels!
cheap quality. its all in the refraction element at the back. that is what is used to spread and distribute the light from one side to the whole area uniformly. they need to be carefully designed by engineers.

a good example is the key lighting in Nokia keypads vs other phones.

behind nokia keypads(old non touchscreen phones) you will find a layer of plastic transperant material with holes for the keys and some other triangular holes and some square holes.


the square holes are for the keypad LEDs, and the triangular holes infact form mirrors and bisectors of the beam of light from the LEDs. each triangular hole is carefully constructed at a particular agnle. this helps proper reflection (reflexion at critical angle)

same goes for the part behind b/w lcds of phones. thy may look like a random rough pattern, but its actually engineered well.


apart from this another thing is the polarizer in front of the screen. light from the LCD isnt polarised. you would only see a white screen all the time. there is a polarizer stuck on the screen at the top. that helps direct light from each pixel in a specific direction.
 
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#50
cheap quality. its all in the refraction element at the back. that is what is used to spread and distribute the light from one side to the whole area uniformly. they need to be carefully designed by engineers.

a good example is the key lighting in Nokia keypads vs other phones.

behind nokia keypads(old non touchscreen phones) you will find a layer of plastic transperant material with holes for the keys and some other triangular holes and some square holes.


the square holes are for the keypad LEDs, and the triangular holes infact form mirrors and bisectors of the beam of light from the LEDs. each triangular hole is carefully constructed at a particular agnle. this helps proper reflection (reflexion at critical angle)

same goes for the part behind b/w lcds of phones. thy may look like a random rough pattern, but its actually engineered well.


apart from this another thing is the polarizer in front of the screen. light from the LCD isnt polarised. you would only see a white screen all the time. there is a polarizer stuck on the screen at the top. that helps direct light from each pixel in a specific direction.
Agree and disagree. You are absolutely right about the keypad tech but not only Nokia, Samsung and Motorola use the same technology for diffraction. I can prove it also because I still have my old Samsung phone.

And I have just gathered some knowledge about why viewing angles vary in TN panels.
You are right about the polarilizer in the front of the LCD panel. But the backlight section has got nothing to do with the viewing angle.
LCDs have two portions- The sandwiched layers which constitute the actual LCD and the backlight unit. Brightness uniformity depends on the backlight unit but viewing angle depends on some characteristics of the panel itself(without backlight). As far as I read there can be a lot of factors. One is the direction of current to the transistors. And second is the front polarizing material.
But I want to know the technology behind those. Optical tech.

Another thing: We all know privacy filters are available for LCDs which restrict viewing angle but keeps the straight visibility same. Maybe my LG monitor has something like that integrated. If thats it, I am sure some reverse polarizing material must be available some where. Any ideas?