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More Cores ... Justifications getting Ridiculous

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#1
The media's fascination with more cores despite the lack of any evidence it's doing anything for 98% of PC users is getting just crazy.

https://www.techradar.com/news/inte...intels-beastly-mainstream-octa-core-processor

"At another demo station, we were shown how users can possibly use the processor to play PUBG and World of Tanks Encore at the same time. "

OMG, finally ! I'm preparing new build this instant !

While it could be argued that this is worth saying just to show how capable it is, it's like telling a soccer mom, if she bought a school bus, the could take the entire league to the games. I hope someday that synthetic tests, and things that users might possibly do once a year be listed in a section called "Other Stuff that's Absolutely Meaningless to Everyday Users".
 
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#2
And yet people think the 9900k is worth a £600 preorder when the 8700k went around half that new easily and it's a 5-10% difference in performance - sad.
 
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#3
I would have been happy with my 7700k, but the mobo conked out.. and at that point, it was harder to find other z270 boards with U.2 ports. So I splurged on x299. I didn't really need it.. but 8c/16t is a nice count. And now that mainstream is going this route (and Ryzen), we probably will see more utilization anyways.
 
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#4
I'm sooo out of this performance / gaming world now, it's no longer appealing to me. I grew old in a matter of months all of a sudden.

Good for me i guess :)
 
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#5
I9 9900k look like the bedst gaming cpu ever released. But intel is doing what they bedst: being greedy even on the mainstream platform now:kookoo:

Intel in a nut shell these days. And the 9000 series to the x299 like whise. Same amount of cores and not much new but a bit higher price throw:kookoo:. Thanks intel for ripping over wallets.

Amd really seems to get closer and closer now to give intel a beat down after years as the small dog.

Intel do have some things going there way also. Intels cpu still goes to higher clock, have a bit better ipc and overclock better. And it also seems intels chips performs the bedst in games. But there greedy price tags, makes it hard to justify it.

For me it either pay a Premium to intel for a new cpu, go to amd but knowing they dont oc as great and that is importent for me or i simply just keep my i7 980x a while longer. And i think the last thing is gonna be my choise for now.
 
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#6
More cores is needed,I just don't know why they keep pushing ht/smt for mainstream. More physical cores.
 
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#7
One thing I like is compressing/raring files with many cores. It's mad entertaining and really fast with multiple cores/threads.
 
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#9
I like that "mainstream" desktop got more cores because this way I can build a system for video rendering and video gaming without having to get a HEDT platform.

But the average/regular user probably has no use for more than 4-6 cores. Still, its nice to have options.
 
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#10
7nm is 4x density of 14nm so there is no other choice but to add more cores or the cpu die size will be too small around 50mm2 for 8 core ryzen down from 200 mm2.
 
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#11
I have my eye on the 9600k 6 core thats for pre order. if I can get it for around $250 after a promo code, it might be the IPC king for many years to come. less cores and soldered and no threads... so 6 cores, soldered... Liquid Metal on outside in contact with my Noctua NH-D14 + 3x Noctua fans 140mm in push pull direct on the heatsink....

I might be able to swing 5.4ghz all 6 cores no downclocking on air with reasonable temps. thats more ideal to me than 8 cores 16 threads at 5ghz or 5.1 ghz. I care about IPC only.
 
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#12
7nm is 4x density of 14nm so there is no other choice but to add more cores
This really is the thing.

You can't up IPC, it's been milked to death. 5Ghz is also hard to exceed. So what do you do?

Stagnate? No. You add cores.
 
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#14
Tell me why average Joe Blow user needs more cores than 4 please. I'm all ears.
Because it works better if used right, as does a game limited to 4 ,i do remember the same argument said by some not me, when I owned a athlon and yearned for a q6600 , then I tested said q6600 and found that they were definitely wrong ,mire Is better, the end.
 
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#15
Considering that we are reaching the limit of IPC, and the fact that is somewhat hard to push a single core beyond 5 GHz without resorting to watercooling or some really heavy-duty aircooling (nevermind pushing 5 GHz across 8 or more cores during a really long time), the best way to go about increasing performance is to add more cores and optimize the software to take advantage of them. However, I agree that right now there isn't a whole lot of software that requires or takes advantage of anything beyond 4 or 6 cores, so it seems rather pointless most of the time to buy anything with 8 or more cores...

At another demo station, we were shown how users can possibly use the processor to play PUBG and World of Tanks Encore at the same time.
I don't get why someone would be playing two different games at the same freaking time. Or maybe I just can't multitask games.

More cores is needed,I just don't know why they keep pushing ht/smt for mainstream. More physical cores.
Before the whole Meltdown/Spectre thing, it was a relatively acceptable way to increase multithreaded performance when you couldn't (or wouldn't) put anymore physical cores in a certain space, and without degrading single-threaded performance in a significant way, I think. If I remember correctly, it still was/is costly because of increased TDP vs a non-SMT/HT CPU, however.
 
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#16
Why does that site ask me to turn off ublock... not going to do that. And let's go to the past. In here I've seen, we'll never need more than 4 cores. We'll never need more than 4gbs ram. We'll never need more than 640k! Having extra cores with high ipc isn't going to slow down a game.
Also this is a tech site, we don't all use computers just to game. I would kill for a 32 core cpu, because I could actually make use of those.
But eventually, just like 640k, we will need more, apps will use more, and things will run faster because of it.
 

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#17
Considering that we are reaching the limit of IPC, and the fact that is somewhat hard to push a single core beyond 5 GHz without resorting to watercooling or some really heavy-duty aircooling (nevermind pushing 5 GHz across 8 or more cores during a really long time), the best way to go about increasing performance is to add more cores and optimize the software to take advantage of them. However, I agree that right now there isn't a whole lot of software that requires or takes advantage of anything beyond 4 or 6 cores, so it seems rather pointless most of the time to buy anything with 8 or more cores...



I don't get why someone would be playing two different games at the same freaking time. Or maybe I just can't multitask games.



Before the whole Meltdown/Spectre thing, it was a relatively acceptable way to increase multithreaded performance when you couldn't (or wouldn't) put anymore physical cores in a certain space, and without degrading single-threaded performance in a significant way, I think. If I remember correctly, it still was/is costly because of increased TDP vs a non-SMT/HT CPU, however.
THe pushing two games thing was never real and is quite stupid, However running multiple MMO clients is still highly popular and can be quite demanding.
 
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#18
So buy a K series i3 and have fun..... OR a cheap Ryzen quad core.

Dunno what else to say to this thread. If you don't need or want or need the cores then don't buy them--there are plenty of options available.

I know back in the late-90's/early 2000's high end single core chips would cost $700-900..... but nobody really bought them. People would just get lower-end chips and OC them. Either that or they would deal with the slower chips.

I had about 100x as much "fun" with my shitty-ass FX-8300 and 9590 as I've had with this 8700k. I literally spent at least 80 hours tinkering with bios settings and RAM speeds with that chip. But with this 87700k, I just set XMP and enjoy my computer. I dunno if XMP is any better with Ryzen, but I hope--for the sake of AMD--that it is.

I guess I was just way more willing to spend a lot of time shooting voltage at a $120 chip than I am with a new, $350 chip. That, and the temps (though they are within "tolerances") scare me with this 8700k. I mean, come on, 85c with a massive tower cooler--that's ludicrous.

Maybe when I get a few grand in the bank I'd be more willing to push this chip..... I'm not a youtuber, I don't have a hundred chips on a shelf waiting to be used. But This 8700k completely puts the FX-9590 that I came from to shame in every aspect. Stuttering in games is almost nonexistent--I had stuttering like crazy (that never registered in the FPS-meter) with my old chip.

I got my wife an 8600k, just cuz. She kept her old GTX 780 and the stuttering in Witcher 3 was gone. She came from an FX-8350. Just adding a new CPU and some 3200mhz DDR4 helped immensely. Not to mention the 1070 that we threw in there a few months later....... Worlds of difference.

I guess the bottom line is: Do your research and figure out what you need for what you do. It's not like we're giving up our first born children for an 8c/16t CPU anymore.
 
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#19
All I can add is if you were to try and run an older machine now you'd have problems in both compatability and raw computing power.
No way something from 2005 can run modern games and programs like it did back when the setup was new, BUT this doesn't totally justify a crazy amount of cores either.

As newer OS versions are released, programs become more complex with additional threads needed.... The question has been asked - Where are all those programs and games we were promised to make use of all the extra stuff? One thing is certain, it's not getting here as quickly as was made out when these things were promised. Just using the "Moar cores" mentality to sell stuff and that's just a marketing thing, like in the opening of this thread.
Was said above; If you want it, buy it but if it's of no use to you no one is twisting your arm to do so.

Just don't allow the guys in marketing to convince you it's an absolute neccessity because it isn't...... Today that is.
Maybe later.
 
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#20
So........when are the applications that use more cores coming?
Because it makes perfect sense to spend on more cores that aren't able to be used.
Eh, yeah chicken or the egg sort of problem. If more cores isn't the norm, developers can't very well make use of them. Can't utilize something that most people don't have. But that really does go both ways.

It starts making sense when they become more affordable. People may not need the cores, but to me if I can have more for what I used to be happy paying for less, then why wouldn't I take the freebie alongside performance boosts in other areas? And that's what a lot of people are starting to think. Enough people get on that, your average PC has more cores, and those can then be put to better use.

Or at least that's the hope. There is the problem of many tasks inherently being serial. I don't know of a way around that without rebuilding a whole lot from the ground up. But I suppose it's always possible that more parallel solutions may arrive, simply because the option is there... ...it gives devs a reason to think outside of the box. Though realistically it would be a fundamental shift in how we accomplish base-level tasks. Not happening anytime soon. Too many problems simply aren't solved that way. Don't get me wrong, I think we're seeing more than 4 cores used a lot more often these days, but it'll still be a while before we see the gains we saw with speed increases back in the day, if we ever do. Optimization can only go so far.

The thing I don't get about this whole "no more cores" thing is... ...what else should we be expecting instead? What would the next revolution be? What else is there to do currently? Gotta sell those CPU's mann... ...can't rely on node shrinks and clock speed boosts so much anymore. Now all that's left is to tweak existing architectures and work on better multicore packages. That's just where we're at as far as I can see.

I guess the real question is what these extra cores should really be worth vs things like IPC or just straight performance on serial loads. With AMD's additions, the price per core/thread is going down significantly and I really don't see how that could be a bad thing. But it does raise the question of where the point of competition really lies. Is adding more cores really competitive? I mean, for most folks... ...a faster CPU with fewer cores will still serve them better. Most of us here get it, I think, but a lot of folks still don't see how its apples to oranges between high clock speed, low core count chips and low clock speed high core count chips. AMD is bringing more IPC now, while Intel is working in more cores, but I've never seen AMD and Intel as competing factions.

I will say it is getting to a point where for Joe Shmoe, AMD is starting to look like the better preposition. They don't perform as well as Intel stuff, but for Joe Shmoe they really don't have to, so long as they cost significantly less. That they sometimes wind up with more cores than they need is incidental. And I think for a lot of people buying mid-range Ryzen machines right now, the core/thread count isn't the main selling point. It's the fact that they are fast enough and cost significantly less to step up to.

You won't hear me complaining about more cores. I'll tell you, nothing bogs down a midrange dual or quad core CPU like running a bunch of live audio tracks in Reaper, many running double-digit vst plugins with high quality filtering alongside complex vsti synths and other instruments. I can now live track and monitor two guitars at once with all of that going on in massive projects because of this $160 6c/12t CPU. For me, that's a damned good value! I look back on all of those years of having entire sessions lost to overload instability, or having to wait for tracks to do a temporary bounce so that I could then track more or work with others without crazy latency.... ....breaking projects up and smushing together bounced tracks that are mixed by proxy.

But that is a very specific use case. Even most audio stuff still doesn't benefit - Reaper is kind of the exception in that it seems to really like spreading larger loads across threads. VST instruments are going that way little by little. In my case it was money well spent and saved - this will serve me well for some time to come, maybe even more later. I guess if you need more cores now, you already know you do. And if you're not sure, take a few anyway... ...but only if they throw themselves at you. It's nice to have a little bit of overhead.

All that said, I still find it hard to justify 8C/16T right now, though I think it's cool to see more of them popping up all the same. Again, if you really need that, you shouldn't have to ask if you do. I see both sides of it. I get not wanting to pay for silly theoretical performance, and the obsession with core count is pretty much exactly what marketers want right now, even though it's still more pragmatic to have maybe 6 at most. But I mean... ...the ship has sailed. Ultimately elevated core count is just the latest of many little inches forward. This is the progression now, until something better comes along.

I say don't pay extra more for cores, but if the most cost-effective option happens to have more cores, then lucky you! I guess...
 

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#21
I'd like to see more tests like these. They test various CPUs while playing BF1, streaming and watching a movie, and they test FPS jitter, not just high/low.
 
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Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 2100/5500
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Eizo Foris FG2421
Case Fractal Design Define C TG
Power Supply EVGA G2 750w
Mouse Logitech G502 Protheus Spectrum
Keyboard Sharkoon MK80 (Brown)
Software W10 x64
#22
Yeah, I'm not even sure why you'd visit that website. If we're going to post every article like this... I think you've got another day job.

But the bullshit is so easy to identify, its not even funny

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'We saw PUBG at 175 fps, ultimate gaming CPU, kthxbai'
 
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System Name RemixedBeast-NX
Processor Intel Xeon E5-2650 @ 2.2Ghz (8C/16T)
Motherboard Dell Inc. 08HPGT (CPU 1)
Cooling Dell Standard
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Power Supply 630w Dell T3600 PSU
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Software Windows Server 2012 x64 Standard
Benchmark Scores Network: APs: Cisco Meraki MR32, Ubiquiti Unifi AP-AC-LR and Lite Router/Sw:Meraki MX64 MS220-8P
#23
One thing I like is compressing/raring files with many cores. It's mad entertaining and really fast with multiple cores/threads.
That and media encoding. dBPowerAmp can do one core per song and having a lot of cores encodes a lot of music fast. Also been backing up tons of youtube vids cuz censorship crap... need a lot to encode.
 
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System Name Blackbox
Processor Intel i7-7820x
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Video Card(s) Powercolor Vega 64
Storage 900p 280GB/Barracuda 10TB
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Power Supply AX860i
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#24
I can't for the life of me think of any occasion where I'd run two games simulataneously or run a game and a vid at once. But I would like cores utilized to specific operations within one game.
 
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Processor I7 5930K
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Audio Device(s) Logitech G933
Power Supply Corsair RX750M
Mouse MMO 800000button thing that i cant remember the name of.
Keyboard Logitech G19
Software W10
#25
I can't for the life of me think of any occasion where I'd run two games simulataneously or run a game and a vid at once. But I would like cores utilized to specific operations within one game.
I did a couple of times, My son was playing VR (htc vive) and i was playing as well, but i would say my 6c12t did a fine job, and one time the games was a CPU intensive one.

But maybe that is the only Way Intel think it is justifiable to have 8 Cores on a mainstream CPU, they are new to this game right :D
 
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