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More 'General Nonsense' brought to you courtesy of microsoft

FreedomEclipse

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no news is good news!


More drivel from some random higher ups at microsoft out banging the drum for PC gaming, which is even more ironic when his title is "senior director for PC gaming in the Xbox group"

Not really postworthy - We've all seen microsoft come out of the closet at random times and shout their undying love, devotion, commitment and dedication to PC gaming to the stars and back before running back into and disappearing behind those closet doors which lead to their Narnia of Xbox gaming.

Kevin Unangst speaks of 'unifying' the PC and Xbox into one huge ecosystem with the launch of windows 10

He also speaks of hoping to get developers to release on windows app store in addition to steam to create competition then again backtracks by saying "But our goal right now isn't to do anything else other than support Steam and help it run great on Windows 10"


TL;DR - We at microsoft will help by doing absolutely nothing.


--Personal Comments--

Firstly - "senior director for PC gaming in the Xbox group" .... what is wrong with this picture right here???

The fact that they even wanted to unify the PC and Xbox ecosystem is laughable. Unless Microsoft are willing to port their entire catalogue of xbox games onto PC then just maybe something might happen. But cross-platforming will have its own list of issues when it comes to online matchmaking. The PC might have too much of an advantage due to keyboard and mouse controls or superior hardware. Of course Microsoft can fix all that by hardcoding shit graphics into the game and disabling K&M support so everyone can be on a level playing field, But if that is the case then what's the point? Why not just go out there and buy a god damn xbox and enjoy it in front of a big 50" or 4K TV??

It would take too much time and effort to port everything over to PC and Microsoft's ports haven't always been the best even though they are better than most. PC gamers will still be getting substandard version of the game - also if newer Xbox games are also made available for PC cuz of the unification, People might stop buying it for xbox meaning a dip in sales for xbox because people want to play their game on the PC instead of their console which they slaved away for so long making.

Developers releasing games on the windows app store?? Whatever happened to the days when Microsoft used to make their own PC games rather than having to beg or cajole outside developers into releasing their games on their app store when nobody really gives a fuck about the microsoft app store compared to the likes of steam which has built up its library and reputation over the years. Microsoft will never come anywhere near to steam no matter how they dream.

They can attempt to bribe devs to release on their app store but i doubt their store has as much traffic as steam to make it worthwhile for the devs. Even if games were made available on M$ App store, i think people would still choose GoG or Steam if the game is available on there instead.



Obviously, the name of the game is to take whatever this guy says regarding PC gaming with a C-130's load of salt
 

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The fact that they even wanted to unify the PC and Xbox ecosystem is laughable.
Xbox app that comes with Windows 10.

Unless Microsoft are willing to port their entire catalogue of xbox games onto PC then just maybe something might happen.
Nope, from briefly glancing at the Xbox app, there's a lot of features that won't even work without an Xbox One. Reading between the lines, it seems pretty clear to me that Microsoft wants to stream games (and other content) running on the Xbox One to your Windows 10 computer through the Xbox app.



Developers releasing games on the windows app store?? Whatever happened to the days when Microsoft used to make their own PC games rather than having to beg or cajole outside developers into releasing their games on their app store when nobody really gives a fuck about the microsoft app store compared to the likes of steam which has built up its library and reputation over the years. Microsoft will never come anywhere near to steam no matter how they dream.
Microsoft doesn't want games that are released on Steam. They want microtransaction games like those that are on Google Play and iTunes. Remember, the Windows App Store is cohesive with Windows Phone now too. Microtransaction games aren't permitted on GOG and there's only a handful of them on Steam (most notably DOTA2). Valve nor CD Projekt really lose from Microsoft claiming most of the microtransaction games.


We've been through this song and dance before. What ultimately happens is Microsoft runs away with their tail between their legs and Valve will continue to beat Microsoft at its own game. It's disgraceful, but that's just the way Microsoft is. As long as they keep developing DirectX and Visual Studio, us PC gamers will be okay.
 
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Well said. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..." MS makes quite a habit out of their lipservice to PC gaming. I think Gabe was right though, they do intend to wall off Windows against Steam eventually.
 
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Newell was commenting about Windows 8 and Microsoft got the message by sheer lack of sales. Windows 10 users will reject the Xbox app just as they rejected Windows 8/8.1.

When Newell attacked Microsoft on Windows 8/8.1, it wasn't about Steam, it was about supporting (or lack of support) virtual reality hardware. I think Newell is hoping for an XInput-like solution in DirectX that makes VR support more ubiquitous (one software API with one hardware API).

Microsoft will never move against Steam because Steam translates to Windows sales. Microsoft wants to take business away from Steam in areas Steam isn't very successful. Microsoft undeniably has a much greater reach with the Windows App Store than Steam Valve can dream of.
 

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Newell was commenting about Windows 8 and Microsoft got the message by sheer lack of sales. Windows 10 users will reject the Xbox app just as they rejected Windows 8/8.1.

When Newell attacked Microsoft on Windows 8/8.1, it wasn't about Steam, it was about supporting (or lack of support) virtual reality hardware. I think Newell is hoping for an XInput-like solution in DirectX that makes VR support more ubiquitous (one software API with one hardware API).

Microsoft will never move against Steam because Steam translates to Windows sales. Microsoft wants to take business away from Steam in areas Steam isn't very successful. Microsoft undeniably has a much greater reach with the Windows App Store than Steam Valve can dream of.

Actually, if you recall, Newell talked about the programming, which was designed to enable the walling off of anything non-MS, just not implemented. He said he foresaw thae day that gets implemented. Well, W10 is just a dressed up 8.1. It's all still there then.

Also, this quote from Kevin Unangst, that @FreedomEclipse provided above speaks volumes. Emphasis given by me: "But our goal right now isn't to do anything else other than support Steam and help it run great on Windows 10"
 

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Microsoft could have done that with 2000 or XP through checking certificates. If it isn't signed by Microsoft, it won't run. Windows RT actually has that implemented and it is not easy to get around.


What Newell said (about 20 minutes in):
https://soundcloud.com/gameslice/valve

What Unangst said:
http://www.pcgamer.com/games-for-windows-wasnt-the-right-approach-says-microsoft/

Here's the full quote:
Kevin Unangst said:
Over time do we want more developers to come over to our store and offer it in addition to Steam? Absolutely. Is competition good for people? Absolutely. But our goal right now isn't to do anything else other than support Steam and help it run great on Windows 10.
I don't see what is worthy of emphasizing there. Microsoft can't force anyone (except its own studios and applications seeking to reach the walled garden of Windows RT and Windows Phone) to publish on the Windows Store. Individual publishers have to make that decision. They hope it can compete with Steam for PC titles, of course, but consumers and publishers will have to decide that. That said, do I think future Microsoft titles will be on Steam? Probably not. The same can be said for Electronic Arts titles on Steam.
 
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rtwjunkie

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I don't see what is worthy of emphasizing there. Microsoft can't force anyone (except its own studios and applications seeking to reach the walled garden of Windows RT and Windows Phone) to publish on the Windows Store. Individual publishers have to make that decision.

Come on man, you're a smart guy. Major corporate leaders don't say anything that hasn't been checked and re-checked by PR, Legal, etc. The "right now" is in there for a reason. They've given themselves an "out" several years down the road. I can hear it now: "No, if you'll check our statement from 2015, we never said we would never exclude Steam from operating on Windows."
 

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With Games for Windows Live dead, they have nothing that competes directly with Steam for PC gamer money. That's what he meant by "right now." His inclusion of the words "right now" signals that Microsoft could have plans to make something that competes more directly with Steam. Considering the failure of Games of Windows Live and the inclusion of the Xbox app in Windows 10, I think it is pretty safe to bet we're not seeing any Steam-like service from Microsoft any time soon. Microsoft knows they have a weak gaming presence on Windows and Steam already reaches more platforms than Microsoft will ever be willing to support so unless there is a massive paradigm shift (likely coming from Nadella himself), we've seen all we're going to see in the near future (namely, the Xbox app).


By "support," he is saying morally, not in terms of software's ability to run. Steam sells Windows and Microsoft wants that relationship to continue.

Imagine the legal shitstorm that would occur if Microsoft changed their kernel to forbid Valve software from running. Not only would Valve sue and likely win for millions or billions in damages; EU and FTC regulators would be all over them like flies on a carcus. The EU and FTC could easily ban Windows from their respective markets for anti-competitive behavior. What Unangst said provides zero legal coverage--besides the fact I think this interpretation of what he said is completely off base from what he meant (made clear by the competition preface). Microsoft has always supported software competition and Unangst statement is consistent with that.
 
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Come on man, you're a smart guy. Major corporate leaders don't say anything that hasn't been checked and re-checked by PR, Legal, etc. The "right now" is in there for a reason. They've given themselves an "out" several years down the road. I can hear it now: "No, if you'll check our statement from 2015, we never said we would never exclude Steam from operating on Windows."
I don't really see how they'd exlude Steam. Excluding Steam would practically mean excluding a lot of other desktop software as well, unless they specifically blacklist Steam which people would find workarounds for. Steam is just a program among other programs after all; currently Windows can happily run any 32/64-bit executable that has been compiled to run on Windows, and because of legacy support I don't see this changing in the future.

Microsoft surely also knows that they can't exclude Steam as long as it's dominant, especially since Valve is developing and targeting their whole own operating system for gamers. By blacklisting Steam, Microsoft would just gift a lot of gamer market share to Linux (be it SteamOS or other distributions).
 

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I don't really see how they'd exlude Steam. Excluding Steam would practically mean excluding a lot of other desktop software as well, unless they specifically blacklist Steam which people would find workarounds for. Steam is just a program among other programs after all; currently Windows can happily run any 32/64-bit executable that has been compiled to run on Windows, and because of legacy support I don't see this changing in the future.

Microsoft surely also knows that they can't exclude Steam as long as it's dominant, especially since Valve is developing and targeting their whole own operating system for gamers. By blacklisting Steam, Microsoft would just gift a lot of gamer market share to Linux (be it SteamOS or other distributions).

You DO know that was the impetus to get the Steam OS going, right? Gabe only said it would happen after 8 was released and MS had radically changed its ability to wall things off. Since MS has shown its inability to be trusted on the PC gaming front, Gabe decided he wasn't going to wait for that to possibly happen in the future. Thus Steam OS became a reality.
 

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http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/08/ceo-gabe-newell-explains-why-valve-created-steam-machines/

Now, a couple of years ago, we started to get pretty worried that maybe that openness was going to be challenged, that there was success in proprietary platforms in living rooms and in mobile, and that was going to cause the entire industry to step away from the opportunity of openness,” he said. “What can we do? We picked three things to look at. The first was thinking about user interface, the operating system, the platform side of it. We have a lot of experience with Steam. By developing Big Picture and then moving all of that on top of Linux, we’d have a platform that everybody could use.”

19 minutes into the recording previously linked: "What we're really betting on is making sure that we don't end up stuck with dependencies that keep us from providing good customer solutions. With Apple and the iPhone we had these issues where we put out a version of our iPhone app and six hours later we're ready to do an update. We find out six months later they finally approve this first update. That kind of barrier is worrisome to us."

Put the two together: Newell doesn't like Xbox, he doesn't like PlayStation, and he doesn't like iOS's walled garden. He says nothing about Windows in regards to Steam OS. That's a separate quote and as I said before, it was more about Microsoft's decision to push touch in Windows 8 where it was entirely inappropriate.
 
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Microsoft wants to stream games (and other content) running on the Xbox One to your Windows 10 computer through the Xbox app.
Oh, that's because PC is dead and we live in a post PC world where every x86 machine in existence is MS Surface or Asus Transformer or generic laptop or a console ... :rolleyes: oh Microsoft FFS ... right now I'm doing exact same thing as cptn. Picard in your meme ... and seriously, when you think about it, millions of noobs that made a mistake buying laptop for occasional gaming, after initial disappointment they will run xbox app to realize they can upgrade their $300 laptop with a $400 console to be able to play games on that laptop ... this is MS ingeniousness at work, "to game on your cheapo laptop click here to buy xbox one" ... and then you'll have even more people thinking consoles are more powerful than PCs, oh joy.
 

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Oh, that's because PC is dead and we live in a post PC world where every x86 machine in existence is MS Surface or Asus Transformer or generic laptop or a console ... :rolleyes: oh Microsoft FFS ... right now I'm doing exact same thing as cptn. Picard in your meme ... and seriously, when you think about it, millions of noobs that made a mistake buying laptop for occasional gaming, after initial disappointment they will run xbox app to realize they can upgrade their $300 laptop with a $400 console to be able to play games on that laptop ... this is MS ingeniousness at work, "to game on your cheapo laptop click here to buy xbox one" ... and then you'll have even more people thinking consoles are more powerful than PCs, oh joy.

Yeah, exactly right. Problem is, for most of us here though, it should run from PC to Xbone, since the streaming machine is supposed to be the stronger one, and determines the quality of your game. Yet, millions and millions will never see the idiocy of this (going from Xbox to PC), because Lord Microsoft said "stream from Xbox to your PC."
 
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I admit I kind of 'raged' before i really sat back and tried to understand what was said in the interview and also what was going on with microsoft. I guess im still a little mad with microsoft constantly saying they done goofed with PC gaming and how they want to make things right blah blah blah but yet do absolutely nothing about it.

I dont regret posting though, reading some of the comments here has really helped to fill in the gaps with regards to microsoft.

I really hope steam OS manages to improve and gain enough traction before M$ locks out steam.

Id be curious to know how many people will actually use the xbox to PC streaming app when the whole thing gets underway. I honestly dont think they will get as much attention as they make it out to be
 
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This just makes me more pleased with my switch to linux over the weekend... I may live in the pacific northwest, but I feel like Microsoft really isn't worthy of my support, no matter how much taxes they blindly pay to the wonderous state of Washington.
 

FreedomEclipse

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This just makes me more pleased with my switch to linux over the weekend... I may live in the pacific northwest, but I feel like Microsoft really isn't worthy of my support, no matter how much taxes they blindly pay to the wonderous state of Washington.

I did use Linux mint for a few weeks on my laptop to try and get the feel for it. I honestly would of stayed with it if games ran better with it. I think thats one of the biggest issues that has really prevented Linux from gaining a bigger foot print.

If i had a basic cheapo netbook that i wouldnt be doing any gaming on then hell yeah id put linux on there as it would most likely run more smoothly than windows 7 or 8.1
 
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Bahhh.


Microsoft is trying to move from a sales driven business model to a SAAS model.


I forsee a Xbox app that allows a modern PC to run Xbox games and their attempt to sell Xbox Live to PC gamers as part of it.
 
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Finally, Windows is going to the right direction. Before late than never.
 

FreedomEclipse

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I forsee a Xbox app that allows a modern PC to run Xbox games and their attempt to sell Xbox Live to PC gamers as part of it.

If this were to happen then this would actually be a good thing but it still creates a great divide between PC and console. If Microsoft allows PC to run/play xbox games then they might as well stop selling xbox's altogether. Once Console folk wise up and find out that if they have a semi-decent quad core PC used for mediocre tasks that can be upgraded with secondhand parts to make it a half decent enough machine to run xbox games on - There wont be a reason to even consider getting a console anymore. People will stop buying xbox's because whats the point of spending $400-600 on a new console every few years when they could just throw in some $150-250 graphics card and carry on gaming?

If it was to ever happen i think microsoft will heavily restrict the performance on the PC or just straight up block/ban certain 'xbox exclusive' titles from running on PC entirely. Either way. Microsoft will find a way to gimp xbox games on the PC and i can only imagine the possible uproar amongst the community that this may cause because its an extremely underhanded tactic but yet is some how a necessary evil to keep the whole xbox ecosystem alive.
 
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The number of people with a Xbox who don't think of PC gaming as good is much higher than you think.
 
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I did use Linux mint for a few weeks on my laptop to try and get the feel for it. I honestly would of stayed with it if games ran better with it. I think thats one of the biggest issues that has really prevented Linux from gaining a bigger foot print.

If i had a basic cheapo netbook that i wouldnt be doing any gaming on then hell yeah id put linux on there as it would most likely run more smoothly than windows 7 or 8.1

I was pleasantly surprised by the game support since I last tried two years ago. WINE has come along way, and even native games are growing courtesy valve and steam...

But I understand my computer well, and am willing to hack at things to make it work.
 
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I get the feeling that Microsoft want everything to move to the app store so they can control updates, regulate which programs would be allowed, licenses, all sorts of bullshit. I honestly do not want another service; i'm already tied to enough as it is using GOG, Steam, Skype and all the Google crap. I'll never use a Microsoft appstore on PC.
Imagine they went to an all appstore model and you had to use the appstore unless you did some software hackery.
 

FreedomEclipse

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I was pleasantly surprised by the game support since I last tried two years ago. WINE has come along way, and even native games are growing courtesy valve and steam...

But I understand my computer well, and am willing to hack at things to make it work.

Point taken. But ive just randomly googled info regarding SLi on Linux and things dont look so good :p
 

FordGT90Concept

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If this were to happen then this would actually be a good thing but it still creates a great divide between PC and console. If Microsoft allows PC to run/play xbox games then they might as well stop selling xbox's altogether. Once Console folk wise up and find out that if they have a semi-decent quad core PC used for mediocre tasks that can be upgraded with secondhand parts to make it a half decent enough machine to run xbox games on - There wont be a reason to even consider getting a console anymore. People will stop buying xbox's because whats the point of spending $400-600 on a new console every few years when they could just throw in some $150-250 graphics card and carry on gaming?

If it was to ever happen i think microsoft will heavily restrict the performance on the PC or just straight up block/ban certain 'xbox exclusive' titles from running on PC entirely. Either way. Microsoft will find a way to gimp xbox games on the PC and i can only imagine the possible uproar amongst the community that this may cause because its an extremely underhanded tactic but yet is some how a necessary evil to keep the whole xbox ecosystem alive.
TL;DR: The Windows and Windows Phone ecosystems seem to be tied but neither of them are tied to the Xbox ecosystem except for a few "Xbox Live" titles that were released for Windows 10 and Xbox One (as far as I can tell, they're completely separate).


There is one massive problem with running Xbox games on Windows: virtually no computers have a Bluray drive. Not to mention, they won't because it would be a massive gift to the community in terms of circumventing the DRM. The higher ups at Microsoft won't even consider it.

Xbox Live games that appear in the Windows Store, Windows Phone, and Xbox One is certainly a possibility if not likely but, as I said before, the bulk of them will probably be microtransaction based. Microtransaction games generally aren't very successful on Windows.

Edit: Xbox app featured games open the Store program and it looks exactly like this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/farmville-2-country-escape/9wzdncrdqwjk

Which says right on it: "Works on: PC, mobile device"

Sooooo, it appears that for now, Windows and Windows Phone are shared for now and the Xbox app pulls games that were installed from Games for Windows Live or Windows Store. I don't think there are any Xbox Live games on Windows Store yet but that possibility certainly exists because the codebase is more or less the same.


Edit: Oh, the Microsoft Store does have a link for "Xbox apps." Uh...they're like...basic web content access apps...

Edit: I looked at some games that should be sharable between Xbox One and Windows (like Minecraft) and it appears that they're both completely separate for now.

Edit: The search for "Minecraft" fails to find the Windows 10 version even though I was just looking at it five minutes ago. :\

Edit: Apparently it only exists in the Store on Windows 10.

Edit: I finally got it to cough up the URL: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/games/minecraft-windows-10-edition-beta/9nblggh2jhxj

For me, that links opens the Store app on my computer, not the URL but that might just be Internet Explorer/Edge that does that.

Edit: So I converted my Mojang account and got a free copy of Windows 10 Minecraft but now I can't figure out how to install or play it. :confused: For the record, this version of Minecraft, it says on the store, is full of micro transactions. I wasn't kidding when I said Microsoft's store is all about microtranactions. And no, I'll never spend a cent on that bull.

Edit: Oh, I wasn't logged in. I had to click on "Free Trial" and it popped up a dialog to log in. Now it is downloading. I don't really feel like playing it but...it is clear this is a wreck.
 
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The xbox app on windows 10 is actually kinda awesome. Let's be play the xbox thru my pc with no lag and negligible effects on the graphics.
 
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The xbox app on windows 10 is actually kinda awesome. Let's be play the xbox thru my pc with no lag and negligible effects on the graphics.

That's not playing anything. You're remote controlling a console through a PC (input latency...) instead of just PLAYING ON THE PC. As if the graphics and framerate weren't enough of a reason to stay off the stupid box.
 
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