MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC - bios update...

[AlwaysHope]

The weirdest think happened when updating the bios on this motherboard as per the title thread. 7B85v1F bios is the official latest for this board, that's all good & fine but this is the first time I've ever updated a bios on a motherboard & the system refuses to let the user into the bios whilst pressing "Delete" key during POST. After seeing the keyboard numlock LED on, pressing the delete key does nothing whatsoever & the motherboard manual indicates this is the right key to press for access to bios options, that has always worked no problems with previous bios versions for this board.

To add insult to injury, the monitor LED went into sleep mode indicating no signal from the GPU card. This is new, has my card suddenly died? No.

If I don't press any buttons the system loads the windows login screen OK. So obviously the GPU card is fine... apart from that now the end user has to muck around & change their security credentials cause of firmware updates from new bios before going any further with logging in. It's nice that Microsoft are on the ball with forcing the end user to change their password/pin to get back into their account.

Is my keyboard faulty? No. Another keyboard is now plugged in with a known working one, still the same problem persists...
At this stage I'm thinking MSI have done a BIG boo boo with this bios update & a bug with the delete key to let end users into their system to configure it.

So, this post is a warning to other MSI users of as far as I know at this stage, this particular motherboard model! beware when updating to this latest bios version.

In a way, lucky I have another AM4 board here (X570) to setup if this is a bug that won't get fixed, not that I'm cynical but until an avalanche of end users complaining about it to MSI support, then I suppose nothing will be done to fix this most annoying problem.

In the meantime I'm stuck with the system using default bios options & that means 2133MHz ram speed...

 

[tabascosauz]

Sounds like you can get into Windows fine...are you aware you can reboot to BIOS by holding shift+Restart on the login screen/in Windows, and going directly to UEFI through the troubleshooting menu?

Are you able to power off immediately (single short power button press), when the system is in a black screen "BIOS"? That would indicate it's actually reached BIOS, where you always can immediately shutdown without delay. If not (if you have to long press power button, like system is frozen), then it's not actually gotten to the BIOS successfully.

You have a BIOS flashback button on rear I/O so you can rollback with a 2.0 USB drive, to a working BIOS revision, without touching any of your hardware.

As for the BIOS itself, it's a shitty situation, unfortunately one that I've warned about on AM4 a lot; don't update unless there's something big that you explicitly need from said BIOS. AGESA's rolling update model doesn't make BIOS updates any safer or improve the quality control of vendors' BIOS updates - BIOS flashback is the only lifeline you have if something goes wrong.

 

[mstenholm]

An alternative to delete is F1. It should bring you to a point where you have access to BIOS. Worth a try. Not all MSI MBs have the possibility to rull-back. My 470X AC doesn’t have it.

 

[AlwaysHope]

An alternative to delete is F1. It should bring you to a point where you have access to BIOS. Worth a try. Not all MSI MBs have the possibility to rull-back. My 470X AC doesn’t have it.

I'll give it a go next time I'm on that machine again. Weird if that works, no indication anywhere in the mobo manual to use that particular key.
On another note & I forgot to mention it in the first post, is I did clear the CMOS as well, but problem still persists.
Also, I'll check out if roll back is possible but I get a nagging feeling that it ain't going to work.

Edit: F1 key no work.

Sounds like you can get into Windows fine...are you aware you can reboot to BIOS by holding shift+Restart on the login screen/in Windows, and going directly to UEFI through the troubleshooting menu?

Are you able to power off immediately (single short power button press), when the system is in a black screen "BIOS"? That would indicate it's actually reached BIOS, where you always can immediately shutdown without delay. If not (if you have to long press power button, like system is frozen), then it's not actually gotten to the BIOS successfully.

You have a BIOS flashback button on rear I/O so you can rollback with a 2.0 USB drive, to a working BIOS revision, without touching any of your hardware.

As for the BIOS itself, it's a shitty situation, unfortunately one that I've warned about on AM4 a lot; don't update unless there's something big that you explicitly need from said BIOS. AGESA's rolling update model doesn't make BIOS updates any safer or improve the quality control of vendors' BIOS updates - BIOS flashback is the only lifeline you have if something goes wrong.

Woops, missed your post.
Thanks, another point I'll try next time I'm on the machine.
Can power off immediately with the 4 second hold on. The gpu is R9 nano, so doesn't fully support UEFI boot with original bios, CSM/UEFI compatibility mode must be enabled - that's the mode that worked well with Win11 on this machine.
I'll also try the bios flashback button on the rear I/O panel, never used that stuff before but yeah, lucky its on this board.
I've heard & seen issues with AGESA updates, but never thought it would happen on this system. All the previous bios updates have always worked well.

 

[tabascosauz]

Woops, missed your post.
Thanks, another point I'll try next time I'm on the machine.
Can power off immediately with the 4 second hold on. The gpu is R9 nano, so doesn't fully support UEFI boot with original bios, CSM/UEFI compatibility mode must be enabled - that's the mode that worked well with Win11 on this machine.
I'll also try the bios flashback button on the rear I/O panel, never used that stuff before but yeah, lucky its on this board.
I've heard & seen issues with AGESA updates, but never thought it would happen on this system. All the previous bios updates have always worked well.

The shift click restart menu works both from start menu and lock screen.

Dunno if CSM would prevent video in BIOS, but when I use my old pre-UEFI GPUs on my Impact it throws a warning screen between POST and BIOS. Stops the POST process and requires pressing F1 to continue. I do still get video output though.

You should not need to hold the power button to power off at all if you are in functional BIOS. On any brand of motherboard.

For flashback it's easy, just go off the LED (red LED probably tucked behind the rear I/O right by the button, barely visible). Should only take a few minutes. If it goes out after only a few seconds, make sure you have a USB 2.0 drive formatted correctly. Should not need to remove or unplug any hardware, just powered off but plugged in.

 

[AlwaysHope]

The shift click restart menu works both from start menu and lock screen.

Dunno if CSM would prevent video in BIOS, but when I use my old pre-UEFI GPUs on my Impact it throws a warning screen between POST and BIOS. Stops the POST process and requires pressing F1 to continue. I do still get video output though.

You should not need to hold the power button to power off at all if you are in functional BIOS. On any brand of motherboard.

For flashback it's easy, just go off the LED (red LED probably tucked behind the rear I/O right by the button, barely visible). Should only take a few minutes. If it goes out after only a few seconds, make sure you have a USB 2.0 drive formatted correctly. Should not need to remove or unplug any hardware, just powered off but plugged in.

It's definitely not a functional bios cause' the delete key not responding. So if that's not working, then anything else in the bios will be questionable if it works at all..
My only fear at this point is the system telling the end user, can't revert to older bios but won't know for sure until tomorrow.

 

[tabascosauz]

It's definitely not a functional bios cause' the delete key not responding. So if that's not working, then anything else in the bios will be questionable if it works at all..
My only fear at this point is the system telling the end user, can't revert to older bios but won't know for sure until tomorrow.

Definitely attempt the advanced restart menu before anything else.

Generally you won't be prevented from rolling back to older BIOSes on AM4, unless explicitly told that there is no rollback due to AGESA limitations.

However, original B450 and X470 boards (and 300 series) have BIOS chips only 16MB in size. After Ryzen 3000, MSI in particular had to make slimline stripped-down BIOSes for 16MB boards to support new CPUs. Some vendors (ASRock I think) removed support for old CPUs in the new BIOSes. For some B450/X470 boards, there is no rollback after that threshold.

MSI had a particularly rough time. Its only B450/X470 boards that don't have this problem are its newer MAX boards (32MB), so since you don't have one, best look at the entire BIOS list to double check there aren't limitations.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Quick update to this problem. Bios before the latest is dated mid 2020, so support for 5000 series will be removed.
So if downgrade bios, can only run up to 4000 series.
Using shift restart does nothing too. Blank screen & HDD led blinking every second.

 

[outpt]

F11 tap it when system restarts
That’s how my tomahawk works when delete doesn’t work

 

[tabascosauz]

Quick update to this problem. Bios before the latest is dated mid 2020, so support for 5000 series will be removed.
So if downgrade bios, can only run up to 4000 series.
Using shift restart does nothing too. Blank screen & HDD led blinking every second.

Don't you have a 2600X, so you don't need 5000 support? If you make the upgrade you can re-update to the latest BIOS at the time.

Time for BIOS flashback, sounds like. From having to hold the power button to power off from BIOS, something's definitely wrong with the v1F flash. v1B and v1C should be pretty solid even for a 3000 chip.

If it's the 2600X you have, you can honestly choose from any BIOS ever. Pre-Ryzen 3000, the CPUs were pretty simple and not nearly that sensitive to AGESA performance changes. Firmware-reliant Precision Boost 2 didn't exist back then.

 

[suraswami]

OP, can you use MSI Center Utility to update the bios to a previous one? No Windows based utility?

Did you remove the CMOS battery for few minutes and put it back?

I have the X470 Gaming Plus MAX, powered by R7 2700X, weird the current bios it is on is not even on MSI's site anymore. Board has been good, only annoying thing about this board is it takes about 1 to 2 min to post and give the beep before allowing any user interaction.

 

[eidairaman1]

OP, can you use MSI Center Utility to update the bios to a previous one? No Windows based utility?

Did you remove the CMOS battery for few minutes and put it back?

I have the X470 Gaming Plus MAX, powered by R7 2700X, weird the current bios it is on is not even on MSI's site anymore. Board has been good, only annoying thing about this board is it takes about 1 to 2 min to post and give the beep before allowing any user interaction.

The clear cmos jumper should resolve it, but anytime i do a firmware update i clear cmos and save factory defaults before flashing

 

[AlwaysHope]

Don't you have a 2600X, so you don't need 5000 support? If you make the upgrade you can re-update to the latest BIOS at the time.

Time for BIOS flashback, sounds like. From having to hold the power button to power off from BIOS, something's definitely wrong with the v1F flash. v1B and v1C should be pretty solid even for a 3000 chip.

If it's the 2600X you have, you can honestly choose from any BIOS ever. Pre-Ryzen 3000, the CPUs were pretty simple and not nearly that sensitive to AGESA performance changes. Firmware-reliant Precision Boost 2 didn't exist back then.

Thanks & yes, still have the old 2600X, have no current interest in upgrading for the purposes of this system. But I believe in keeping options open, never know what's going to happen in the future right? The 1C bios looks the go though if bios flashbacking.

OP, can you use MSI Center Utility to update the bios to a previous one? No Windows based utility?

Did you remove the CMOS battery for few minutes and put it back?

I have the X470 Gaming Plus MAX, powered by R7 2700X, weird the current bios it is on is not even on MSI's site anymore. Board has been good, only annoying thing about this board is it takes about 1 to 2 min to post and give the beep before allowing any user interaction.

I only ever update bios on any modern system via the bios flash utility built into motherboards (at least the ones I buy). It's not OS dependant. The last bios I used was not beta bios but an official one & today its not listed there anymore too, so your not alone with your system in observing that phenomenon.

The clear cmos jumper should resolve it, but anytime i do a firmware update i clear cmos and save factory defaults before flashing

I tried clearing the CMOS by the jumper method as outlined in the motherboard manual. Still no effect.

 

[suraswami]

Thanks & yes, still have the old 2600X, have no current interest in upgrading for the purposes of this system. But I believe in keeping options open, never know what's going to happen in the future right? The 1C bios looks the go though if bios flashbacking.

I only ever update bios on any modern system via the bios flash utility built into motherboards (at least the ones I buy). It's not OS dependant. The last bios I used was not beta bios but an official one & today its not listed there anymore too, so your not alone with your system in observing that phenomenon.

I tried clearing the CMOS by the jumper method as outlined in the motherboard manual. Still no effect.

Try the CMOS battery method, I have seen some boards do nothing with the clear CMOS button.

CPU-Z doesn't report I am using a beta bios, can't find the bios zip file in my downloads, should be in the usb flash drive I used to update the bios.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks & yes, still have the old 2600X, have no current interest in upgrading for the purposes of this system. But I believe in keeping options open, never know what's going to happen in the future right? The 1C bios looks the go though if bios flashbacking.

No risk running an old BIOS. You can easily update when the time comes - worst case if you don't have a working CPU, you can still run BIOS flashback without a CPU, RAM or GPU installed.

 

[AlwaysHope]

No risk running an old BIOS. You can easily update when the time comes - worst case if you don't have a working CPU, you can still run BIOS flashback without a CPU, RAM or GPU installed.

The motherboard manual does not indicate at what point does the end user press the bios flashback button on the rear panel when flashing the bios from a USB thumb drive. Obviously I would think when the system is powered on, but at what precise time? As I'm sure you know I don't have any visual cues so this is a new one for me, thanks.

 

[eidairaman1]

The motherboard manual does not indicate at what point does the end user press the bios flashback button on the rear panel when flashing the bios from a USB thumb drive. Obviously I would think when the system is powered on, but at what precise time? As I'm sure you know I don't have any visual cues so this is a new one for me, thanks.

Hold that thought

 

[tabascosauz]

The motherboard manual does not indicate at what point does the end user press the bios flashback button on the rear panel when flashing the bios from a USB thumb drive. Obviously I would think when the system is powered on, but at what precise time? As I'm sure you know I don't have any visual cues so this is a new one for me, thanks.

You do BIOS flashback with the system powered off, not on. But when plugged into the wall. Plug in your USB to the designated BIOS flash port on the rear I/O, and hit the button to start.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Hold that thought

Thanks, too many videos!
The last one from 11.00 answers my question.

Update: doesn't work. flashback led blinks for few seconds & USB thumb drive led flashes for few seconds & then stops. However I do have all components connected to the board for the purposes of usage on this system, so I'm guessing that could be the issue here even though MSI state in their motherboard manual those components are not necessary for this procedure.
If I have to strip the system down just to do this bios flashback, may as well convert over to my X570 board & be done with it. But hey, at least then the B450 board will be in its' stripped down state & "hopefully" this procedure will work properly.

 

[mstenholm]

MSI support works. But as I wrote some days ago not all boards support rull-back, meaning uploading an older bios.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks, too many videos!
The last one from 11.00 answers my question.

Update: doesn't work. flashback led blinks for few seconds & USB thumb drive led flashes for few seconds & then stops. However I do have all components connected to the board for the purposes of usage on this system, so I'm guessing that could be the issue here even though MSI state in their motherboard manual those components are not necessary for this procedure.
If I have to strip the system down just to do this bios flashback, may as well convert over to my X570 board & be done with it. But hey, at least then the B450 board will be in its' stripped down state & "hopefully" this procedure will work properly.

Like I already said, make sure your drive is explicitly a USB 2.0 drive and formatted correctly. I tried with every 3.0 drive I had and it failed after blinking for a few seconds. MSI's system is picky like that.

Went and picked up a 2.0 drive and it went right thru.

You don't need to strip any components.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Like I already said, make sure your drive is explicitly a USB 2.0 drive and formatted correctly. I tried with every 3.0 drive I had and it failed after blinking for a few seconds. MSI's system is picky like that.

Went and picked up a 2.0 drive and it went right thru.

You don't need to strip any components.

The USB is formatted correctly according to instructions of motherboard manual, that is fat32 specifically indicated. The USB drive itself is 2.0 & error checked in windows before proceeding. The bios file was renamed to MSI.ROM as the motherboard manual indicates as well. It's just a crappy system here. But like I indicated before, lucky I have another AM4 board ready to go.

Not sure what's going on with the forums but I wanted to quote mstenholm's msg but it won't proceed to quote that...
Anyway, that member is correct it seems at this point. MSI do not support rolling back the bios.

 

[eidairaman1]

The USB is formatted correctly according to instructions of motherboard manual, that is fat32 specifically indicated. The USB drive itself is 2.0 & error checked in windows before proceeding. The bios file was renamed to MSI.ROM as the motherboard manual indicates as well. It's just a crappy system here. But like I indicated before, lucky I have another AM4 board ready to go.

Not sure what's going on with the forums but I wanted to quote mstenholm's msg but it won't proceed to quote that...
Anyway, that member is correct it seems at this point. MSI do not support rolling back the bios.

Yup so whats the point in having it called bios flashback?

 

[AlwaysHope]

Yup so whats the point in having it called bios flashback?

Beats me! After viewing some of the vids you posted links to earlier, probably to support the 5000 series when they were released last year, at least on that particular model of motherboard in the video.

 

[tabascosauz]

The USB is formatted correctly according to instructions of motherboard manual, that is fat32 specifically indicated. The USB drive itself is 2.0 & error checked in windows before proceeding. The bios file was renamed to MSI.ROM as the motherboard manual indicates as well. It's just a crappy system here. But like I indicated before, lucky I have another AM4 board ready to go.

Not sure what's going on with the forums but I wanted to quote mstenholm's msg but it won't proceed to quote that...
Anyway, that member is correct it seems at this point. MSI do not support rolling back the bios.

Interesting. As hard as I have looked (and my own experience on 2 of their boards), this doesn't seem to be a general MSI policy. Worth reaching out to their technical support to ask?

The pickiness with drives is definitely a pain. If you don't have any other drives you can try, good that you have a working X570 board to fall back on.