Discussion in 'General Nonsense' started by DaMulta, Oct 26, 2010.
Thats funny, I wrote a 7 page paper on just the opposite. no kidding. I just finished my Batchelor of IT and that was my last assignment.
Most people are okay with games, but as more and more people are playing them, more people are slipping and going off the deep end.
here is one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School#Massacre.
Does anyone remember V-Tech from like the year before last?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS42d4Gizks - Heres a documentary on Hikkikomori. If you dont know what that is either google or ask Anime Nation what it is. If you would all jump to 11:30seconds... Now doesn't that seem similar to these other incidents?
When I was young, my mom worked for whats known today as ppv channels. I think it was 1st Choice/SuperChannel here in Canada. My dad was an insurance broker (who at one point had dealings with Wayne Gretzky's Dad Walter, I met both at Gretzkys charity tennis tourny in 99's hometown several years in a row). But ya the intellivison rocked hard. I had the original model and the Intellivision 2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Intellivision1.jpg with all the addons and i think my library was at peak over 40 games large
hmmm after reading this, something occured to me.
its not that we played these games or not - its that we knew it was wrong.
i played leisure suit larry as a kid - but because i knew it was wrong (and did it anyway) i knew it wasnt acceptable behaviour to act like a manslut. same goes for raping hookers in alleys and beating their heads in.
let the kids play the game - so long as you express to them which actions are wrong, and MUST NOT be done in real life.
It's "bachelor" not "batchelor" . It's an honest mistake and I'm not holding it against you, but the ironing is delicious. I also have some edumacation.
The rate of violent crimes is going down (since 1993):
The FBI investigated school shootings and didn't seem to think that video games were a catalyst:
In my opinion, no.
I actually think that Video Games make people less violent if anything.
Whether you play video games or not, if you are violent in nature then you are just violient in nature. I just hate it when people use video games as an excuse/scapegoat.
oi! i'm watching you now!
as for V-tech:
these kids were nuts anyway. its just that with more and more people playing video games, the odds of nuts people being gamers goes up.
its like looking for pilots as crazy people - if everyone was given a free pilots licence tomorrow the rate of pilots going on a massacre would suddenly increase... OMG FLYING PLANES MAKES YOU CRAZY.
Really, its all in how you expose and teach your children about reality/videogames and whats rgiht morally. My daughter has always understood from the day she could talk, that videogames are not real and what happens in them is not reality. I used to let her ride my horse and fish in WoW @ 5, but if I was playing an FPS she was to go do something else. Now @ 8, I don't mind her watching the FPS or LOTRO or whatnot, shes a bright child that has been exposed to computers and age appropriate games since she was 2 and sitting on my lap using the mouse on ppre school sites. I dont even doubt that with just a lil instruction that she could put her own rig together piece by peice (shes been around or a part of every build I have ever done )
So should we stop our kids from reading books also? If it does not stop with books should it end with T/v? What about radio? I'm sure some people could say that some things you listen too could also drive some off the deep also.
All end all the buck stops with the parent no matter what is on the table video games, books, T/V, movies, radio.
There is one thing that does have a influence all of the above, and that is he or shes peers he or she might be around. Yet, again it's the parents that must teach their kids the word "no" no matter who they maybe around.
I think I pretty satisfyingly crushed his post with my post.
Also, I don't want to be rude unduly but I'm pretty sure that obvious troll is obvious...
Would you honestly let your son read a book about hookers and drug running? Seriously....
Like the Bible?
I know I know, but really do I need to read everything before he reads it? I know I have picked up books that were really bad, and based on the cover it wasn't that way.
Yes... Like the Bible.
I think GTA makes a better Bible actually.
That's another topic all together.
I wouldn't even attempt to tell you how to rase you kid. It's not that I was shocked you let him play GTA but more so that he could name 10 other kids his age who play it. I can see it's getting really tough to actually censor the content kids are exposed to today. Just look at the difference in TV violence from 10 years ago until now. I didnt have cable for roughly 10 years and now I can't believe how graphic easily accessible programming has become. When I do have kids I'll probably filter all the channels like Ned Flanders (even though I'm not religious) so they don't stumble on crap like Dexter and CSI.
I find GTA non-realistic, and it's funny but I let his fill for a week or so of it. Thus ending his wants to even play the game. It's his last of pick, and when someone else wants to play it...it's no most of the time. Also the game is sooo out there it's border line funny while your playing it.
Now going on Game Advisory there are games IDK about letting him play. Those would be like FEAR, or DOOM 3, Quake, on those lines. Just cause I know he would get nightmares from it, and really mess him up for a few days. So I can see the need for ratings, but I do ignore them a lot of the time. I admit to being kind of a gamer so I no what to look for, but if it came to books I would be more lost about what too look for.
Yet, I know others that let their kids play those games, because they wouldn't have that issue from playing them.
Yeah just let them play old stuff and, if they "handle" it properly, Quake3-like shooters should be allright. For example Tremulous (I don't know whether that chap has the right age for it) is a nice game that is more about fun MP experience, a well-done mix of RTS and FPS and not so much about graphics (of course, the ioquake3 engine is a fork of the quake3 engine so it's relatively simple). And I appreciate that it is fully open source, free of charge and made with "love".
And I agree on C&C, AoE etc. that even if they get some rebirths they will never be as good as they used to be in the old days. The only thing they will get is better graphics. I rather see them having improvements in non-visual ways (gameplay depth) too, or no improvements at all and just more or less the same as in the old days.
For example, though there may be many other possible causes IMHO.
Or just crap teachers like I had at primary school. I will not tell all the details here but it felt to me as like I did not have the "rights" to develop properly. At least, I was not quite given the chance to.
The best teacher they ever had (in year 6 of 8), left after having worked but one year at my school to get a position at a different elementary, were she was much more valued (as the other school did not mind her modern ways of teaching and thinking). A school that was a public school, instead of the "school with the Bible" I attended to (a Catholic piece of cr** that failed at proper education and anti-bully policies). The year after (year 7 of 8) I had to cope with a teacher being the opposite of the one I had before, not stimulating the kids in their development that much and even treating them unevenly (and I definitely did not belong to her group of favourite pupils (who were treated quite nicely), but more as a "target" for sarcasm and even offenses like standing beside me while asking "Do I smell poop?").
So even though I did not play videogames at that time (except for at friends' places when going to them), I yet searched confrontation with that teacher (the bad one that is) and shocked the entire school by calling her a b**** publicly (or actually worse than that, but there is no good English equivalent to the word I used).
Is this because I played GTA? No, I did it because (as a Dutch proverb says) a cat driven in a corner makes weird leaps. Like, if I can not run from it (by going to a diiferent school, which my parents did not allow because they were blind for the problems and wanted to have me on a Catholic school) then I will face it and "fight".
Though I am fine now since a decade or so, without issues with teachers/instructors or bullies and no need to be as described above. So don't think my mind is "twisted" please.
If I had a son or daughter being victim of a bully at school, I personally wouldn't mind if he or she would give those "peers" (mean classmates or whatever) a good bunch of beating. In my experience, it's the only way that works everlastingly (the effects of a teachers moderation/mediation/whatchammacallit only works for a short time, if it works at all as a way to get rid of bullyism).
Indirectly, bad parenting is therefore indeed an (indirect) cause, because those misbehaving kids should have been parented better and taught to behave.
Well, a young mind shouldn't play/see it and teens/matures should understand that the GTA shows how someone should not behave. I have always experienced GTA II (did not play the other games) as a way of showing that mankind can be kinda "sick". It's a mirror, okay a quite deforming mirror but still...
You're right about age, though. You shouldn't be too young to play it when playing GTA.
I guess that the Canadians have a better gun policy that the Americans? I mean, civilians shouldn't have a gun at home.
Definitely, correlation is not the same as cause.
That indeed seems to be a decent way to stop the herd-of-sheep syndrome I mean, probably he only thinks it's "cool" because other kids (or whoever) said so. Youthfuls tend to be thinking that they should belong to some sorta group to be "someone of value".
ROFL that is a great remark.
Good lord did this thread ever snowball...
personally I love it!
your test assumes the child has never fallen or tried to jump.
I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you don't have children. A child knows how high they can jump and thus can estimate how high an adult can, they also know that when they fall, they get hurt.
your test could be about anything really. I mean shoot those dang comic books and cartoons are horrible! Superman deflects bullets, can fly, has lazer vision, freeze breath, can lift buildings, mover faster than the eye can see. Dang my children are going to think they can do all those things. I must take away these monstrocities. and Disney is the worst! Have you seen those old cartoons? Donald can fall from the sky and not get hurt, get rolled over by steamrollers, lawnmovers, etc. It's MADNESS I tell you MADNESS!
as Penn accurately stated in that video streetfighter posted, kids learn the difference between fantasy and reality at a young age.
Otherwise ALL fantasy, violent or not, could cause children to think they can do things they can't and many if not all children would die.
Now my sister has a masters in mental health psychology and a bachelors in child psychology(note the s at the end of bachelors, the guy who tried to correct it still got it wrong, it's a degree, not a declaration of singleness lol)
there are certain personalities that can't accurately seperate fantasy from reality and parents need to recognize this and make sure those kids don't come in contact with this material or at least make sure they go out of their way to show that it's fake. There are also violent behavior and those children need counceling early on to prevent them from becoming violent criminals, which will happen if they don't get the help they need and it won't matter if they come in contact with video games, televisions, books, and etc. It's just a part of them.
Parents must be responsible and make sure they know everythign their children are coming in contact with. Damulta lets his son play GTA because he recognizes no negative behavioral changes from before the game was introduced to now. He stopped letting his son play Oblivion because he DID notice a negative behavioral change. That's what a responsible parent does. If your child isn't equipped to handle it, don't let htem have the game, movie, comic, etc. If they are it's up to you and what you teach at your household. But know that no change will happen to a child who can seperate fantasy from reality which is 95% of the children out there.
watch the end of part 3 of the Penn and Teller vid, there's a reason the kid is crying, it's because firing a real weapon frightened him, his mother did well and taught him a valuable lesson that day. that's all that needs to be done, the difference between fantasy and reality is all that needs to be established. From there whatever morals you instill in your children will take care of the rest.
It was done after playing the game, sorry if I didn't make this clear.
And the study was done on a lot of children and the children were chosen at random for the test.
you guys are very lucky..you live in the country that have high grade education, good education quality and have a long history of good education from your grand ancestor..and all the supposed to be "bad effect" of games may be reduced by that.
well..for some of us that living in developing country, the effect of bad tv show/movie/bad games or gaming are real at some part, worsen by the lack of educated of parents, most of the parent here didnt even understand or realize the game rating or ERSB is exist, some parents here still thinks its okay to let their children take a shit or piss in front of somebody house fences cause that what they did when they are a kid, there are a lot of kids in my neighborhood that plays game at the playstation rentals until 2-3 at night or morning for some because their parents are okay with that and also some of their parents still working from low salary job they can get at because their low education. just few month ago there is a 7 yrs old kid who throw and broke the arm of another 5 yrs old kid, and when asked by injured kid parent why he did that, he said he didnt mean that, just playing like the wrestling game he saw at the playstation rentals. Bad TV/movie and bad games combine with bad parenting, bad educated parents and bad educated neighborhood, have cumulative effect on some child and some of the effect are not really good. and for some really bad area the effect is worse than other.
2 years ago i worked at remote exploration/mining site deep in the papua jungle, the primitive tribe there have access to satellite TV and games console because the mining company and employee gave it to them and one day there almost a full scale of tribe war broke between few tribes just because the 8 yrs old chief kid got carried away and smack the head of other tribe chief kid while they both plays fighting games. and there are a lot example of "cultural shock" happen that makes the company eventually restrict full access of games console and satellite tv.
i have played games since Atari in the eighties and still play few hours everyday, many of the time i play with my 5 yrs old boy. and yes i see something wrong happened to some of the kid in my neighborhood and did the bad games also contributing to it? i would love to denied it but i really have difficulty to say no. so now, no GTA for my boy no matter what. better safe than sorry..
There is such a wide gamut of responses here; it's fascinating how we see the same topic from different perspectives. I'd be curious to know if generalizations could be made between Country of origin and views on who should police gaming. Hey I'll throw out some possibilities and feel free to respond with your Country and view (mention alternate views if I have missed them).
1. Parents hold 100% of the responsibility when determining the suitability of a game for their children.
2. The Country has a duty to accurately inform parents of the content so parents can be confident in their game choices; 100% onus on Country.
3. Shared responsibility between the Country and the parent to determine suitability.
1. 100% of games are suitable for a child 8 years old.
2. Not all games are suitable for a child 8 years old.
Canada, Part 1: #3, Part 2: #2
I would give to him but keep a close watch on his behavior, but gta is voilent and some kids turn into the shouting halo playing kids, but he will get bored of it sooner or later.
Government has no say in my family. Whoever interferes with my kin dies.
Separate names with a comma.