My RTX 2070 (mobile) lost signal strength or bandwidth (or at least I suspect that's what happens)

[Baal]

I'm pretty puzzled. My notebook is an OCTANE VI from PC-Specialist. For those who don't know it, this is a CLEVO, kind of customised notebook. It runs a NVIDIA RTX 2070, obviously in notebook version.
I use it for theatre performances, so its HDMI is quite often plugged in an out and also with different cables. Many of you will agree on HDMI being one of the worst plug standards around... but unfortunately it is standard.
Now the problem. I have an active 30m HDMI cable, which used to run fine with this laptop. I could tell the whole story but I guess it is easier to list the facts. Can't test everything right now, since I'm on tour.

- Everything below has been working fine until recently
ACTUAL SITUATION
- HDMI output:

• Not working connected to 4K monitor with short cable
• Not working with my 30m active HDMI cable
• Working fine with a short HDMI cable at 1080p (on a 1080p projector)

- MiniDP outputs:

• Working with my HAMA adaptor MiniDP-HDMI on 4K monitor with short cable
• Working with my "other" adaptor, on 4K monitor, but only at 1080p
• Not working with my HAMA adaptor and 30m active HDMI cable connected to a 1080p projector
• Working but unstable and blinking pixels around with my "other" adaptor connected to a 1080p projector

It should NOT be a software issue since I have a dual boot system (both with W10, but only one updates regularly and the other only after being tested with the first one). Besides that I booted LINUX from an external drive and had the same issue (just tested 4K monitor directly to HDMI output with short cable).
I've tried the 30m cable connecting it to a slim asus vivo which I think runs an Intel Iris Xe GPU (which should be by far weaker) and it works immediately providing a clean image.

Any suggestions on how to fix it or at least what the reason could be?

Thx for your help.

PS: I've attached a GPU-Z screenshot just in case it helps anyone.

 

[Mussels]

Remember that a 4K display can in fact be many types of signal
Is it a 4K 30, 4k 60 (4:2:0, 4:4:4, RGB)? VRR? HDR?

Some Nvidia drivers do have issues with certain types of DP to HDMI adaptors - some got fixed, some were broken for months (Club3D, iirc)

If its not an incorrect setting on the TV or HDMI port used, your HDMI port could actually just be damaged and lost some signal quality


(4K60 RGB requires HDMI 2.0, while HDMI can do 4K60 4:2:0 off an antique GTX 750 - and some TV's have specific ports that work at full quality while others dont and yet others have toggles in the setting to turn that on or off per port, complicating testing)


Basically: if you used it in the past on an older 4K TV, it might have worked at a lower standard. Now on newer displays it doesnt work, because they're trying to negotiate the higher bandwidth standards.

DP to HDMI is your best bet as an alternative, but watch out for the nvidia driver bug relating to that.

 

[dnm_TX]

And how are you sure that either the HDMI or MiniDP are directly connected to your dGPU(in your case the RTX 2070)?
Unless i'm missing something they're usually connected to the Intel's iGPU and depend on how you set it in NV Control Panel,if Optimus,Nvidia will be helping the iGPU accelerate.
As far as i know,all those Laptop manufacturers started implementig direct connection to the dGPU 2 yrs. ago with the 10th GEN CPU's
and through USB-C port ONLY.That didn't last long of course as they all now offering a MUX Switch.

 

[eidairaman1]

Contact PC-Specialist, they sold you this unit.

Which clevo, there are several different units

 

[Baal]

Remember that a 4K display can in fact be many types of signal
Is it a 4K 30, 4k 60 (4:2:0, 4:4:4, RGB)? VRR? HDR?

Some Nvidia drivers do have issues with certain types of DP to HDMI adaptors - some got fixed, some were broken for months (Club3D, iirc)

If its not an incorrect setting on the TV or HDMI port used, your HDMI port could actually just be damaged and lost some signal quality


(4K60 RGB requires HDMI 2.0, while HDMI can do 4K60 4:2:0 off an antique GTX 750 - and some TV's have specific ports that work at full quality while others dont and yet others have toggles in the setting to turn that on or off per port, complicating testing)


Basically: if you used it in the past on an older 4K TV, it might have worked at a lower standard. Now on newer displays it doesnt work, because they're trying to negotiate the higher bandwidth standards.

DP to HDMI is your best bet as an alternative, but watch out for the nvidia driver bug relating to that.

Thx for the help.
The 4k issue has always been with the same 4k Dell monitor, so it should'nt be related to different hdmi standards on the monitor side.
Regarding the adapters, I had to test several different ones until I found one working. The weird thing is that the one working on my Dell at 4k is NOT working on the long cable, but the one that just puts out 1080 does it, even being unstable.

And how are you sure that either the HDMI or MiniDP are directly connected to your dGPU(in your case the RTX 2070)?
Unless i'm missing something they're usually connected to the Intel's iGPU and depend on how you set it in NV Control Panel,if Optimus,Nvidia will be helping the iGPU accelerate.
As far as i know,all those Laptop manufacturers started implementig direct connection to the dGPU 2 yrs. ago with the 10th GEN CPU's
and through USB-C port ONLY.That didn't last long of course as they all now offering a MUX Switch.

Hi there, oups, my fault for not specifying it.
These notebooks and some others in the range do only have 1 GPU, so everything is always connected to that one. I myself did not realise that until que some time after buying it. The notebook has 1 HDMI port, 2 mini DP and one USB-C/Thunderbold. When using the latter, one of the miniDp is disabled. I've not tested the USB-C/THUNDERBOLT.

Contact PC-Specialist, they sold you this unit.

Which clevo, there are several different units

I did, but at that time I thought my hdmi output was broken and I had not yet tested the 30m cable again.
The only thing they came up with was buying a new GPU, but since I did not even know if it was just a connector issue (the card itself has no connectors but a slot). I wanted to dig a bit further into it.
By the way PC-Specialist GB was far more attentive than their Spanish partners, which I bought it from.
I'll contact them again now that I know some more.
Thx anyway.

 

[dnm_TX]

do only have 1 GPU

That is very rare,indeed. They don't make them like this anymore,so ignore my remarks here.They're irrelevant at best

I've not tested the USB-C/THUNDERBOLT

The latest drivers are more and moe optimised towards USB-C,so at least try it.

Other then that,i don't think i can help much on this one. My knowledge is very limited on such a unique laptop,but good luck though.
Hope you'll find a solution soon.

 

[eidairaman1]

30 meters thats like 90 feet, sound like you'd need a signal repeater after a certain distance.

 

[Baal]

30 meters thats like 90 feet, sound like you'd need a signal repeater after a certain distance.

That same cable worked fine before with this notebook and is still working with another notebook with a far weaker GPU.
@Mussels Maybe it is somehow adapter related, since it is an active 30m cable. But then again it has been working fine before.

 

[Edwired]

By the look of it 10m HDMI cable is usually the limit for picture, sound and resolution. You might need to get HDMI booster box to extend the cable while retaining picture, sound and resolution. Unless you possibly damaged the HDMI output port or the cable is defunct due to certain pin is crushed or have oxidation due to the issues you were having

I have used HDMI to HDMI with 3.5 jack and fibre optical without issues.

Since HDMI cable sent voltages and signals there is a possibility there's emi or inferences along the line causing garbled screen is what I'm guessing

Worst case the HDMI encoder chip on the laptop could have intermitting issue or have blown RF coils which is responsible for signals and communications which is close by the HDMI port if one of coils goes out it could result black screen, wrong resolution, garbled screen

 

[Baal]

By the look of it 10m HDMI cable is usually the limit for picture, sound and resolution. You might need to get HDMI booster box to extend the cable while retaining picture, sound and resolution. Unless you possibly damaged the HDMI output port or the cable is defunct due to certain pin is crushed or have oxidation due to the issues you were having

I have used HDMI to HDMI with 3.5 jack and fibre optical without issues.

Since HDMI cable sent voltages and signals there is a possibility there's emi or inferences along the line causing garbled screen is what I'm guessing

Thanks for contributing.
The thing is, that even with a short cable, my hdmi port is now not working on my 4k monitor, but it does on a 1080p projector.
On the other hand, the 30m cable still works fine on other computers.
All that worked fine until last May.

 

[Edwired]

I could check the cable if it certified for 4k or unless the Monitor or TV requires a newer certified HDMI cable as cheap cables won't work as I have seen sketchy hdmi cables burnt out and caught fire. But I would say there's something wrong with the laptop HDMI output or you might have to fiddle with the settings in nvidia control panel to see if it can detect the 4k monitor/TV or possibility extend the screen if the laptop set in single screen mode

As for DP to HDMI adaptor it works just fine as I have used it on my evga gtx 1060 6gb sc single fan model even used it on dell optiplex 790 for testing purposes. Will use it to set up a multi screen some day soon

Thanks for contributing.
The thing is, that even with a short cable, my hdmi port is now not working on my 4k monitor, but it does on a 1080p projector.
On the other hand, the 30m cable still works fine on other computers.
All that worked fine until last May.

Got to ask do you disconnect and reconnect the HDMI cable regularly when using the laptop else where if yes I would say the HDMI encoder chip inside the laptop might be damaged. Best to get the laptop serviced by the repair shop that can replace the ic chip along with the rf coils

 

[Mussels]

He did say it was an active HDMI Cable - thats vague but probably one that works over optical, or ethernet.
We do need to know what actual cable that is, to know what its specs are


That said, if its not working on short cables, all you can do is get a new short cable to test. I know an active DP to HDMI doesn't work on my kogan 4K display at 60Hz, but works at 59Hz - no explanation or reason why.

It's either

1. Something up with whats being output (wrong res/refresh rate/etc) for some reason (could be software, could be BIOS)
2. Actual hardware damage to the HDMI port (really unlikely)
3. User error - It may have never worked how you think it did. It could have been 4K 30Hz, a DP to HDMI, or running at 1080p or something. Memory can be a fickle thing for small details.


Being an intel laptop it's almost zero chance it has no intel IGP - so it's worth finding out what ports are connected to the IGP and what to the 2070, or if they all share the ports and do the Optimus shenanigans.

The shared tech is often held back by the IGP, and that's where remembering a detail wrong could be key - because one port might do it fully, others might not.

 

[Baal]

I don't think this is a cable issue, since same cables worked before and do still work on other computers. Also drivers is not very likely, since I've the same issue when starting the machine on a different W10 partition which does not automatically update, and same issue even on LINUX (external drive boot).
Also, as stated at the first post, this Notebook is often connected and disconnected to different HDMI cables, which increases the chance of this being a hardware issue (but a rare one).

Regarding "my memory" I know for sure it is not the best LOL - And it could be that at some point I updated BIOS or GPU Firmware (not even sure how to do that), but I've tinkered around after my M2 system drive just quit working and I had to install everything from scratch again. But again, and this confirms my bad memory, I'm not sure if this was before or after the GPU issues (I think GPU was first). I could check if anyone thinks it can help to shed some light on this.

Regarding having no intel IGP I'm pretty sure it does not have it. It just has one GPU and everything runs on this one. However I'm not sure how to prove it and I could be wrong. The RTX is definitely the only one listed in the device manager or anywhere else I've tried. Also I know other people in the theatre bussines also have notebooks with just one graphics card - One of them is a Tech support guy from ISADORA who pointed out that I also could have only one GPU when I was asking for some support.

The 30m cable is a LOGILINK CHA0030 - It is ethernet based and is meant to be 4k-30Hz capable. Now I see it says "Comply with HDMI 1.4 High Speed with Ethernet". ANYWAY I do not need this cable to output 4K since I'm using only 1080 or 1200 projectors. When working at home on video edition I use a Dell 4K monitor, on its original short HDMI cable, which before was working on the HDMI port and now does not. But it works using the HAMA MiniDP-HDMI adapter. I actually thought my HDMI port was completely broken for a couple of months. Only last week I tried a short cable (a cheap one) to connect it to a 1080p projector, and it works fine. But the long cable does NOT work with that projector nor on an older TV I tested being on tour. It does not work on the HDMI Port, nor using the HAMA miniDP-HDMI adapter. The Hama adapter works when using other cables (the cheap short one and a 10m cable I've been using). Unfortunately I did not try the 10m cable on the HDMI output directly, since I still thought it was broken and now I'm elsewhere and don't have that cable anymore.

The main questions could be these:
a) Why could possibly the 30m cable (which worked before on this computer and now still works when connected to the same projector but a different notebook running a weaker GPU) have stopped working.
b) Why does my HDMI output not work anymore with my 4K monitor.

Could it possibly just be a connector issue? Are all threads on the connector always used? Maybe the 30m cable as well as 4K output require a connection not used for "simple" 1080p output that got broken on my HDMI connector.
This would not explain why the 30m cable does not work on the miniDP-HDMI adapter either, but (memory wise) it might have never worked. Sometimes complex problems have more than just one cause.

The main problem I have, is that I don't have another laptop to try my RTX-2070 (fortunately it is easy to take it off) and I'm just trying to get a diagnosis before spending the money on a new one which might not solve my issues.

Finally, thanks for the suggestion about getting a USB-C/Thunderbolt adapter. I might try that as well. However the USB-C is on the side and I really got used to have all GPU connectors on the backside. This is more tidy and useful in some crowded or small tech cabin desks in many theatres. Maybe I can find a 90º USB-C connector ;-)

Thanks again to everyone taking the time to go through this.

 

[dnm_TX]

@Baal what CPU that laptop came with? I actually watched a review on YT just to see what we're talking about here.
It was from the same series: OCTANE VI and the most expensive one of that line,which was equipped with Desktop CPU: i7-9900K and a full blown
RTX 2080 Desktop GPU with reduced wattage to 150W(i believe). So if yours is something similiar,there is no point neither me or the others here to keep trying to prove you wrong regarding how many GPU's are present and whatnot.

thanks for the suggestion about getting a USB-C/Thunderbolt adapter

There is still no guarantee that the USB-C is capable to provide display functions. Don't get your hopes up,yet. Do some research first.

 

[R-T-B]

By the look of it 10m HDMI cable is usually the limit for picture, sound and resolution. You might need to get HDMI booster box to extend the cable while retaining picture, sound and resolution.

Not with an active cable.

 

[Edwired]

Not with an active cable.

Looking at the active cables it only goes to 25 feets = 7.62 meters without repeaters box to extend the cables futher but looking at the op he have 30 meter cables that goes about 98 feets no wonder the laptop is having issues

Active cables are directional and will have a label or marker on each head to tell if that end goes to a source device or a display device . Active cables draw extra power from the display device and WILL NOT work in reverse. There is no way to reverse their direction if installed incorrectly

 

[R-T-B]

Looking at the active cables it only goes to 25 feets = 7.62 meters without repeater

Depends on the setup. His cable may very well be optical which has no such issues. But it sounds like an ethernet setup from his posts. That wouldn't really be a cable but more of a transmitter box and also face no such issues.

 

[Edwired]

Only way to set up for projector is hdmi to ethernet box as it can go further than 30 meter as well has the bandwidth for 4k 60hz will cost a good bit but it will be worth it in a long run if you have the 4k projector to run. I did come across a video that the guy broke 3 different receiver boxes in a space of 18 months due to active hdmi he was using since he explained why it was a problem as the receiver box can handle up to 15 feets but he was running a 30 feet hdmi cable. In theory it was putting a heavy strain on the receiver same with the laptop it only cope to a certain amount and break down after awhile

 

[Mussels]

The point about the active cable being backwards was a really good one tho, and same goes for making sure its a direct connection - no other converters, adaptors etc (I cant use my active DP to HDMI and then anything after it, or it has a fit)

 

[Edwired]

The point about the active cable being backwards was a really good one tho, and same goes for making sure its a direct connection - no other converters, adaptors etc (I cant use my active DP to HDMI and then anything after it, or it has a fit)

It the truth that why active hdmi cable only works one way same with active dp to hdmi. I have active dp to hdmi it a small adaptor works to 4k and only paid €6 in Ireland

 

[Baal]

Hello again,
Yes my 30m active cable is ethernet based and is directional (it does not require external power and the converter chip is built in the connectors themselves (There is a link in my last post). I'm well aware of it being directional and I've been using it for more than a year. And yes again, sometimes I plugged it in the wrong way and of course it did not work.

Now the recent test setup has been cable to projector (right direction), cable to my HDMI -> not working. Plug out only from computer, plug in into another laptop -> it works immediately without any issues. So again, the wire seems to be fine. (tested with a 1080p projector). I did the same with an older TV and had identical results.

At home I do have a powered HDMI to ethernet box which says works for 4K con cat7 as long as 70m, but I only tested it once after purchase with an ethernet cable (cat6) that could have been longer than 70m and was still coiled up. It worked with some flickering. I tested it with short about 3m ethernet cables as well and it worked fine. I bought it for when 30m where not sufficient and the theater did not have their own projectors/cables running where I needed them to be. Did not happen so far. I will check the adapter on my HDMI output and the 4K monitor... However I don't want to plug in two extra power supplies just to cover a 1m range on may working desk. The test would only prove the ability of the output to provide 4K.

All that said, what I need is a diagnosis to decide which path to go. Does anyone one have an idea on how to approach the issue? Any systematic approach?

Have a nice day.

 

[Mussels]

Connect it to the display, and check what settings the nvidia control panel has chosen for it
"not working" doesn't tell us anything, we need to know if its detected or not, and if it is what signal is being sent

I brought this up earlier without specifying where to change the settings, but this is how to see what its outputting and where to change it

Lowering the colour format to 4:2:0 should make it work on anything, but it could be something as simple as defaulting to 10 or 12 bit when it only has the bandwidth for 8

 

[eidairaman1]

Gpu fault, rma or replace

 

[Baal]

Hi again, here's some screenshots. I can only test with a 1080p projector. My 4k monitor is at home.

Projector connected with the short cable to HDMI out from my RTX-2070

* Normally I use default colour settings, but tried the other options, all seem to work fine.
* With the short cable I get the same when connecting through any of the miniDP ports with any of my two MiniDP-HDMI adapters
* SUMMARIZING: short cable works in any setup


Projector connected with 30m cable to HDMI out from my RTX-2070
NOT RECOGNIZED

Projector connected with 30m cable to HAMA MiniDP-HDMI out from my RTX-2070
NOT RECOGNIZED

Projector connected with 30m cable to no lable MiniDP-HDMI out from my RTX-2070
RECOGNIZED but very unstable. Looses signal every few seconds and if it stays a bit it shows pixel noise.

Projector connected with 30m cable to HDMI out from an ASUS VIVO-BOOK running an Intel Iris Xe IGP (on W11) I guess you get the spanish terms ;-)

* This proves that the cable is actually still working (and it has been working for at least a year on my RTX 2070)

So these are the pieces for the puzzle.

Thank you all so far.

 

[Mussels]

What we're seeing there is that the projector only worked with limited color on the nvidia GPU
If it's not even recognising, theres nothing you can do. You need to use a different setup.


Oh i see Gsync is on the system, try disabling that entirely - and make sure none of the resolution scaling crap is enabled. There a known bug that makes multi monitor setups flicker a lot while thats present, but it should only last 5-10 seconds.

Gsync on the other hand, can increase the bandwidth sent over a connection and could be related, and it's something Intel cant do