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NAS Backups

Do you backup your NAS and how?

  • No

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • Yes, to external HDD

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Yes, other

    Votes: 6 46.2%

  • Total voters
    13
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Hi all,

Do you have a NAS? If so, do you back it up?

Lets get some thoughts.

Today is my NAS backup day. Backing up my 4TB RAID 0 NAS to 3TB External USB3 HDD.
 

Solaris17

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I let my NAS back itself up with a mirrored Raid.
 
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Eventually I'll have two backups from my NAS, I've a set of stand alone drives in a caddy that backs it up via a program called SyncToy and when I've securely blanked some hard drives I'll have a server setup with a Raid 5 to have another backup copied too. I do need to upgrade my drive sizes I backup to since I've 3, 4Tb Raid 1 arrays in my NAS (Synology) and only 3Tb and a 2Tb drive to back up to... oopsie!!

If I do get time to setup my LTO5 tape drive, I'll have that to backup the more important data to as well, just in case :) Otherwise I can just burn a blu ray disc if needed :) I like to make sure I don't loose anything I would like to keep hold of :)
 
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Really important stuff I put on Google drive, the rest will have to survive on the RAID6 array.

I don't have enough spare drives to back up 40TB+ of data.
 
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My FreeNAS (RAID6) is backed up to a Synology NAS (RAID1)
 
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RAID-1.
I've also considered cloud storage, like blockchain-based Sia, but it's too localized (not too many nodes in my region). Price is good, though: currently averages at $0.50 per TB/mo, and was around $2 at its peak when crypto was at its highest. May be good for personal projects, but I don't wanna risk using it for work. Alternatives are way too expensive... cheaper to buid another NAS which will pay for itself in less than a year.
 

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RAID-1.
I've also considered cloud storage, like blockchain-based Sia, but it's too localized (not too many nodes in my region). Price is good, though: currently averages at $0.50 per TB/mo, and was around $2 at its peak when crypto was at its highest. May be good for personal projects, but I don't wanna risk using it for work. Alternatives are way too expensive... cheaper to buid another NAS which will pay for itself in less than a year.
I hope you do look into something else because RAID1 is not a backup.
 
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I hope you do look into something else because RAID1 is not a backup.
My NAS is used for cloning local backups, so if I look into something else, it'll tecnically be the "backup for the backup of the backup".
Plus my boss is very paranoid about cloud storage, so that'll never happen (I've tried to convince him on several occasions).
 

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My NAS is used for cloning local backups, so if I look into something else, it'll tecnically be the "backup for the backup of the backup".
Plus my boss is very paranoid about cloud storage, so that'll never happen (I've tried to convince him on several occasions).
No thats cool as long as you have more than one. I also couldnt have made that sound anymore like I was a dick. So sorry, I just didn't know if you actually thought it was a backup. I understand the allure of RAID 1 for people not in the know, but I get nervous when people say things like that if they truly do not understand the consequences, because again its easy for people to think its totally fine. I should have elaborated in my previous post, and not aimed at you specifically, but just in case some without the insight stumbles across the thread please allow me.

RAID 1 Protects data against
- Disk failure

RAID 1 does not protect data against
- RAID controller failure
- Virus/Malware (Ransomware)
- Filesystem Corruption
- Accidental deletion
- Acts of god

Since its bit for bit in realtime anything bad that can happen to the data itself will happen to the other even if you dont notice, thus rendering the data effectively useless.
 
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I always find it's best to have different types of backups as well.. Not just on drives, maybe tape or as @yakk mentions, off site. I've an extra 2 or 3 backups if I choice to use them.. For me pictures of my daughters are paramount since we rarely print anything off any more... Couldn't take loosing any of that....
 

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Not a NAS, but a file server. I have a RAID5 array that is backed up to another RAID5 array.
 

Ahhzz

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I always find it's best to have different types of backups as well.. Not just on drives, maybe tape or as @yakk mentions, off site. I've an extra 2 or 3 backups if I choice to use them.. For me pictures of my daughters are paramount since we rarely print anything off any more... Couldn't take loosing any of that....
I hear you, man. I've got Photos stored on my file server, backed up on an external, and on my NAS, which is Raid 1. And many have also been pushed to one cloud or another...

Speaking of my file server, I can't encourage people enough to use something like HD Sentinel for monitoring critical drives. I've had at least 10 different instances in the last 3 years of user machines doing "weird things", and Windows reporting no issues with a drive, but then I throw HD Sentinel at it, and it tells me I've got a pending drive failure. Start imaging the drive, and I get "There was a problem copying XXXX sectors to the image, continue anyway?" from my software. Use something to watch your drives, people ....
 
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I hear you, man. I've got Photos stored on my file server, backed up on an external, and on my NAS, which is Raid 1. And many have also been pushed to one cloud or another...

Speaking of my file server, I can't encourage people enough to use something like HD Sentinel for monitoring critical drives. I've had at least 10 different instances in the last 3 years of user machines doing "weird things", and Windows reporting no issues with a drive, but then I throw HD Sentinel at it, and it tells me I've got a pending drive failure. Start imaging the drive, and I get "There was a problem copying XXXX sectors to the image, continue anyway?" from my software. Use something to watch your drives, people ....
Yes! I like Seagate for their extra health checks (never thought I'd write that) which you can use to trigger a stand-by hot swap drive to kick in and pre-emptively start transferring the raid array away from the pending drive failure.

And yes pictures & videos are now a very big deal for everyone. Off-site storage of those helped me save them a couple times from unfortunate events.
 
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I let my NAS back itself up with a mirrored Raid.
Raid is not a backup and it's not a good idea with drives over 2Tb
 
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I moved to SnapRAID as I mostly have media files on my NAS. It should survive if at least one drive fails and I have very little data on there that's really important.
It's not as fast as RAID-5, but it should have better redundancy and should be easier to both recover data and upgrade. Upgrading RAID arrays is a PITA imho and you risk losing drives doing it, as rebuilding a RAID array is not kind to the drives.

All my important stuff is on Google drive and/or Dropbox.
 
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Raid is not a backup and it's not a good idea with drives over 2Tb
A raid is a legit back up to a raid as long as its not the same raid. But a raid by itsself corect, not a back up. And drives over 2Tb are fine for a raid. I have 6 Tb drives. Now there was some debate about using raid 5 on drives larger than 2Tb as by the time you rebuild a drive the raid might fail. So best to have at least two redundant copies. (raid 6, 10, 50, 60) But most servers now have large drives in a raid

I will say that for years I did not back up my data. I just could not afford it. So i would use a USB large drive, replace it every 3 or 4 years and hope it didn't fail. And a few DVD copies, I was lucky



 
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Raid is not a backup and it's not a good idea with drives over 2Tb
I have 7x 10TB drives in RAID6, working just fine and can handle two drives die at once.
 
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I have 7x 10TB drives in RAID6, working just fine and can handle two drives die at once.
You still should have a back up. That's some $ for those drives, surly you can afford a few more :). Do you have a spare 10 Tb drive if one decides to go south?

I have a third cold copy of all my stuff. 25 Gb BluRay disks but its a few years old
 
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You still should have a back up. That's some $ for those drives, surly you can afford a few more :). Do you have a spare 10 Tb drive if one decides to go south?

I have a third cold copy of all my stuff. 25 Gb BluRay disks but its a few years old
If a 10TB drive dies I will just order a new one so only 24h with RAID5 redundancy should that happen. In the past 15 years I have had 2 drives go bad. One was in RAID5 and it died as I migrated to the first iteration of the current server back when it simply did drive merging and no resiliency using MHDDFS. The second drive was part of said MHDDFS array but thankfully it was only half dead, it could still be read but not written to. Data recovered and the RAID6 with a new set of drives was born. The first drive to die was a 2TB Samsung and the second was a 4TB WD blue.

As long as I can survive a dead drive or two I'm happy.
 
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I have 7x 10TB drives in RAID6, working just fine and can handle two drives die at once.
If one of the drives fails and you have to rebuild, be prepared for an extremely long wait and the possibility that the rebuild fails thus losing all of your data.
I recently built a NAS and was initially looking at some form of RAID, everything I found said that RAID is a bad idea for larger drives. especially if you don't have backups!
There are better methods of having reliable parity, other than raid
 

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If one of the drives fails and you have to rebuild, be prepared for an extremely long wait and the possibility that the rebuild fails thus losing all of your data.
I recently built a NAS and was initially looking at some form of RAID, everything I found said that RAID is a bad idea for larger drives. especially if you don't have backups!
There are better methods of having reliable parity, other than raid
In rebuilding a raid, esp a raid 6, all the system does is start copying the data that should be on the new drive, to the new drive. I don't see how that rebuild can result in losing data.
 
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My guess is a full drive rebuild will take ~18h. That is based on the fact that an array expansion with either one or two drives took 36h, but during those expansions every block on every drive was read and re-written. To replace a drive is just a case of reading from one set and only writing to the replacement.

So unless I have another TWO drives break during that 18h window things will be just fine.

The only thing better than dual parity is triple parity but then you have to go for ZFS RAIDZ3 at which stage you will have fun and games trying to expand the array.

GlusterFS was tempting but that would only offer single parity striping or data duplication/triplication. Not very efficient to use 15x 10TB drives for 50TB of storage.

Now if someone could reverse engineer the Backblaze software which is like GlusterFS but with triple parity striping I would consider it for the next storage solution.
 
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In rebuilding a raid, esp a raid 6, all the system does is start copying the data that should be on the new drive, to the new drive. I don't see how that rebuild can result in losing data.

You can just search around for Raid 6 rebuild failures.

There's a higher probability of another disk failing during a rebuild, especially as the rebuild time is so long on raid 6 with large hard drives. Also, if the controller fails, you are SoL.

Filesystems like ZFS or unRAID work better for larger disks. They will, generally, use less disks and allow you to keep your backups on the spare disks you have left over.

My guess is a full drive rebuild will take ~18h. That is based on the fact that an array expansion with either one or two drives took 36h, but during those expansions every block on every drive was read and re-written. To replace a drive is just a case of reading from one set and only writing to the replacement.

So unless I have another TWO drives break during that 18h window things will be just fine.

The only thing better than dual parity is triple parity but then you have to go for ZFS RAIDZ3 at which stage you will have fun and games trying to expand the array.

GlusterFS was tempting but that would only offer single parity striping or data duplication/triplication. Not very efficient to use 15x 10TB drives for 50TB of storage.

Now if someone could reverse engineer the Backblaze software which is like GlusterFS but with triple parity striping I would consider it for the next storage solution.
10Tb drives? more like 2 weeks - https://www.memset.com/support/resources/raid-calculator/

How about a product like unRaid for your next project? You have enough disks for it to be worth the licence fee.
 
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