NAS Storage Expansion Question

[phill]

Hi everyone

My little Synology system is filling up and I'm wondering what to do.. I'm looking at trying to get a couple drives to fit in there for some extra storage (I think an extra pair of drives should give me a little more time before replacing all 6 drives I currently have ) but I was wondering what size to go for...

Currently I've 4Tb drives, so I was looking at anything above 8Tb for the extra two drives. I was wondering about the following -

I know some are against Seagate and I can understand that everyone has their own preference, but with Toshiba drives and WD the only ones I can see for the moment, these are the best price/size I can find..

I was toying with the idea of going for Pro drives, not because of the data writes etc but for the extra warranty and the data recovery that comes with it.
So back to the size question.. (ooo er misses!!) I've about 4.5Tb of data already to go on these new drives, so if I get 8Tb I'm not really giving myself masses of space (3.5Tb might last a while but.. I don't want to buy and then a year later buy again...) so my question is, what size would you go for? I've added a little poll, so if you'd like to vote an option, I'd be grateful I've hopefully included enough options

I believe @qubit has a Seagate drive or two and I think all going well so far for him?

Hopefully I've not bored anyone to death!! Thanks all!!

 

[seagate_surfer]

Thanks for considering Seagate! Please feel free to ask if you run into any questions on the hard drive. Also, here is more info on the drives in case you need it.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Is your only choice Seagate drives?

 

[Sasqui]

That is on the top of my Christmas wishlist, two 4TB or two 6TB drives to upgrade my QNap TS-253. I currently have two 2TB WD Black drives in RAID 1.

I have yet to find any great deals on spinny drives. Tons of deals on SSD's this season.

When comparing drives of the same size, the price all comes down to the warranty length it seems.

 

[phill]

Thanks for considering Seagate! Please feel free to ask if you run into any questions on the hard drive. Also, here is more info on the drives in case you need it.

I don't think there's any real questions as such, just more so down to the size to be honest. The Pro side of things does interest me and as @Sasqui mentions it's just down to the warranty and the free data recovery, which I do think is worth it, but the difference between the standard and Pro version on the 8Tb for example is £70+. Whereas the 12Tb version, the Pro drives are actually cheaper than the standard version, which makes me think, should I just go for those? I understand that the price of the drive is more because you get more Tb per square inch (so to speak) but I believe they all perform around the same speeds for read/write etc? Is there anything that I'm missing?

Is your only choice Seagate drives?

Not really @FreedomEclipse , but they where the cheapest I could find. I understand that cheap doesn't always go hand in hand with good quality (not saying Seagates are crap by any stretch) but for price to size, they are the best I can fine. There are a few SAS drives (Enterprise drives about) but I'd like to keep the server I have simple, so I went with size/price as my guide. I'll grab a screen grab of my speadsheet I was working from just to show

That is on the top of my Christmas wishlist, two 4TB or two 6TB drives to upgrade my QNap TS-253. I currently have two 2TB WD Black drives in RAID 1.

I have yet to find any great deals on spinny drives. Tons of deals on SSD's this season.

When comparing drives of the same size, the price all comes down to the warranty length it seems.

Your right mate, I haven't seen many deals on these drives at all but SSDs they are becoming ten a penny.. The only downside is that they are a little small for what I'm after and well, I need space rather than all out speed, for the moment

If anyone has any personal experiences with these drives, please do let me know Good or bad, I'd like to hear from you/anyone!

 

[Sasqui]

Your right mate, I haven't seen many deals on these drives at all but SSDs they are becoming ten a penny.. The only downside is that they are a little small for what I'm after and well, I need space rather than all out speed, for the moment

Yea, same here. Just an observation. The best deal I saw was a Sandisk SSD Ultra 2TB for $209 on Amazon. Crazy.

If anyone has any personal experiences with these drives, please do let me know Good or bad, I'd like to hear from you/anyone!

I think you're going to be stuck looking at reviews. The number of experiences you'll get here are going to add up to the number "anecdotal".

Here are some stats, though the sample sizes vary wildly per drive... so take it with a grain of salt: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/2018-hard-drive-failure-rates/

 

[John Naylor]

1. As for drive size, there's a distinct correlation between drive size and failure rate; consider this when selecting drives.

2. A lot of folks have trashed Seagate after reading Backblaze failure reports and not recognizing that the very features that make a drive a great consumer drive make them terrible server drives. Blame BB not the drive manufacturer.

3. I have always chosen the 5 year warranty products, though in the last 8 years, we have been purchasing SSHDs instead of hard Drives. No failures to date, but also not practical for your storage needs.

4. I prefer to use drives all of the same size, as they get older and reach their warranty period, use them for off site storage.

5. Not sure of your existing situation ... you have six drives all 4 TB ... of you have four 4 TB drives and were looking at adding (2) 8 TB ? If the

6. RMA rates between manufacturers are shrinking each year ... the last year I've seen data for was 2017-01-08 and thee combines previous years worth of data was:

• HGST = 0.975 %
• Seagate = 0.825 %
• Toshiba = 0.930 %
• Western = 1.15 %

I have never really paid attention to those numbers and rather focused on the actual model line failure rates. The problem with this type of data is that, there has to be a significant number of products sold in order to meet the minimum threshold for inclusion in the listings ... So if ya see Brand A has 4 products listed on thr 12-14 TB size, and no other brand is listed, could mean 1 of 2 things .... a) the other brands are all great .... b) the other brands didn't sell enough to have broken the minimum threshold to be included. Anything over 2.00 % should give pause.

In the last reporting period published, RMA rates for different size ranges ***that were above the minimum threshold*** ranged from:

2 TB = 0.00 to 1.73 %
3 TB = 0.00 to 5.08 %
4 TB = 0.00 to 2.95 %
5/6 TB = 0.00 to 10.00 %
8/10 TB = 1.55 to 1.88 %

From the above , I make sure to avoid certain 3 TB models and 5/6 6 TB models. From those on ya list ...

• 1,73% Seagate IronWolf 8 TB
• 1,66% Seagate IronWolf 10 TB

All drives that made the threshold were between 1.55 and 1.73 so you are in the middle of that range ... The 0.07% difference between the 8 and 10, has to be written off as a statistical standard deviation thing. As for the standard vs Pro, pricing wise, the 8 TB is pretty pricey upgrade but at 12 TB, it's the proverbial no brainer.

7. For 24 TB, I think I'd go with two 12 TB Iron Wolf Pros for $795 over three 8 TB Iron Wolf Pro models for $770. I'd add a Hard Drive Docking Station (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1B4-006X-00028) and use the old 4 TB drives for off site storage.

 

[Sasqui]

RMA rates between manufacturers are shrinking each year ... the last year I've seen data for was 2017-01-08 and thee combines previous years worth of data was:

What's the source?

 

[phill]

Yea, same here. Just an observation. The best deal I saw was a Sandisk SSD Ultra 2TB for $209 on Amazon. Crazy.

I think you're going to be stuck looking at reviews. The number of experiences you'll get here are going to add up to the number "anecdotal".

Here are some stats, though the sample sizes vary wildly per drive... so take it with a grain of salt: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/2018-hard-drive-failure-rates/

Yeah sadly I think that SSDs might be required in my 'new dream home' server setup so I can max out the 10Gb network I look to put in, but I digress

Well I think I might just go for the best price/size drive, I think somehow that the 8Tb might be a little on the 'small' side as I'm trying to get a few films ripped and put on to a Plex server, so I think the extra size might come in handy.. Besides, I think that by the time the other drives fill up, I might be able to swap them around and then buy bigger drives for the films and so on...

One thing I noticed about the stats is the fact that the Seagate drives are selling massively more than the other makes/models, so I'm thinking that isn't a bad thing that a 1.26% are failing. Out of 26000 for example, that's really not a lot at all.. If 1.26% where failing out of 100, then I might see it a little more as a cause of concern... If that makes any sense?

1. As for drive size, there's a distinct correlation between drive size and failure rate; consider this when selecting drives.

2. A lot of folks have trashed Seagate after reading Backblaze failure reports and not recognizing that the very features that make a drive a great consumer drive make them terrible server drives. Blame BB not the drive manufacturer.

3. I have always chosen the 5 year warranty products, though in the last 8 years, we have been purchasing SSHDs instead of hard Drives. No failures to date, but also not practical for your storage needs.

4. I prefer to use drives all of the same size, as they get older and reach their warranty period, use them for off site storage.

5. Not sure of your existing situation ... you have six drives all 4 TB ... of you have four 4 TB drives and were looking at adding (2) 8 TB ? If the

6. RMA rates between manufacturers are shrinking each year ... the last year I've seen data for was 2017-01-08 and thee combines previous years worth of data was:

• HGST = 0.975 %
• Seagate = 0.825 %
• Toshiba = 0.930 %
• Western = 1.15 %

I have never really paid attention to those numbers and rather focused on the actual model line failure rates. The problem with this type of data is that, there has to be a significant number of products sold in order to meet the minimum threshold for inclusion in the listings ... So if ya see Brand A has 4 products listed on thr 12-14 TB size, and no other brand is listed, could mean 1 of 2 things .... a) the other brands are all great .... b) the other brands didn't sell enough to have broken the minimum threshold to be included. Anything over 2.00 % should give pause.

In the last reporting period published, RMA rates for different size ranges ***that were above the minimum threshold*** ranged from:

2 TB = 0.00 to 1.73 %
3 TB = 0.00 to 5.08 %
4 TB = 0.00 to 2.95 %
5/6 TB = 0.00 to 10.00 %
8/10 TB = 1.55 to 1.88 %

From the above , I make sure to avoid certain 3 TB models and 5/6 6 TB models. From those on ya list ...

• 1,73% Seagate IronWolf 8 TB
• 1,66% Seagate IronWolf 10 TB

All drives that made the threshold were between 1.55 and 1.73 so you are in the middle of that range ... The 0.07% difference between the 8 and 10, has to be written off as a statistical standard deviation thing. As for the standard vs Pro, pricing wise, the 8 TB is pretty pricey upgrade but at 12 TB, it's the proverbial no brainer.

7. For 24 TB, I think I'd go with two 12 TB Iron Wolf Pros for $795 over three 8 TB Iron Wolf Pro models for $770. I'd add a Hard Drive Docking Station (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1B4-006X-00028) and use the old 4 TB drives for off site storage.

Wow that's a big post!! But thankfully I do understand most of it and get where your coming from Thank you for the reply!!

What do you mean about the Seagate drives being great consumer drives but bad server drives? I'm a little unclear on that one, if you wouldn't mind elborating for me please?

Warranties, well the WD Reds I currently have where 3 years and I believe I bought them back in 2014.. So they are out of their warranty period, so whilst I'm not concerned as such yet, I am a little more active when it comes to backing up the data that's on them.

My apologises, I should have said what I was using in the first post (I said 6 4Tb but never stated the make/model, that's my bad!! I'll edit that in a sec...) but I have 6 4Tb WD Red drives. They where all bought at the same time, I would have to check the server, but I believe that have done a few hours on them (not 4 years constant but for the last year, they have been on most definitely 24/7) These drives are used in Raid 1 through a Synology setup

I think I'm going to attempt to grab some 12Tb drives and see what happens. I think definitely going for the Pro's will be the way to go and then see how long it takes to fill up those.. Blu ray films and 4k films will soon fill the space but then, it's what I expect so I'm really not so worried about it

Sadly I would still use the 4Tb drives as main storage and then the 12Tb drives (well 2, as I'd be buying 3) would be used as another pot of storage, then the 3rd one would be for backup I should however consider buying another drive as having 3 pots of 4Tb storage and only 4 drives at 3Tb each, I'm not sure that works out too well either... I might have to re-think that!!