NASA Announces Results of Epic Space-Time Experiment

[stevednmc]

NASA gave us Tang, they're alright in my book just for that..

 

[twilyth]

I recently read about a paper that says that there is no time dimension to space time since time doesn't actually exist - a belief I've held since . . . well, forever really.

They say that space is indeed 4D, it's just not the 4D's that Einstein gave us. Not sure that really makes much of a difference though. It was a pretty dense article and I can't say I ever got the point they were trying to make.

Anyway, I sort of get the idea of space being curved on some higher dimensional level. The thing I have a problem with is frame-dragging (what they proved is happening here). If someone could explain that to me in a non-mathematical but not overly simplified way, I'd be grateful.

 

[wahdangun]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that NASA is not good, and exploration is good for humanity. However, the discussion was about removing money from one part of the federal budget to another. Explicitly, taking money out of the Defense budget and adding it to NASA's budget.

And what exactly did the moon landing give us aside for a hollow victory against the Soviet Union. The only reason we were able to go to the moon and make those great leaps into space during the 60's was because NASA's budget at the time was around %4 of the federal budget, currently NASA's budget is around %.6 so we would have to increase NASA's budget by over %600 to get back to where we were in the 60's.

what are you crazy. Moon landing is the most important thing that america can achieve it make you america a head start to the race to exploit rare material on the moon, if you don't take that advantage it will be super dumb, you will be left out in the dust by china, europe, and even india. They all have started the RnD to go to the moon, hell even china increasing their budget to speed up their development.

btw if you want to increasing the nasa budget there are simple way, GET YOUR ASS OUT FROM IRAQ AND LIBIYA, if you want to make better world then nuke all that stupid pirate in somalia.

And one more thing there is cheaper way to do space exploration in the 70's, just search project orion if you want to know about it.

 

[wahdangun]

I recently read about a paper that says that there is no time dimension to space time since time doesn't actually exist - a belief I've held since . . . well, forever really.

They say that space is indeed 4D, it's just not the 4D's that Einstein gave us. Not sure that really makes much of a difference though. It was a pretty dense article and I can't say I ever got the point they were trying to make.

Anyway, I sort of get the idea of space being curved on some higher dimensional level. The thing I have a problem with is frame-dragging (what they proved is happening here). If someone could explain that to me in a non-mathematical but not overly simplified way, I'd be grateful.

yes time is the 4th dimension, just like our movement in 3d space that are relative to each other.
example:
when a bird walking around you then that bird travel in 2d, but when the bird fly to evade you then it was travel in 3d space. Same as time, imagine you want to in to the future, so you go to the blackhole, because the mass is so immense it create gravity that so powerfull it can bend space and time, and make the time slower in that place, so when you got out from it you are basically travel in time to the future, because let say, 1minute in blackhole equall 100 years out site, so when you 10 minute in there then you go out, to the earth the time have passed for 1000 years. So the conclusion is you basically have travel to future 1000 years relative to earth time

 

[HTC]

yes time is the 4th dimension, just like our movement in 3d space that are relative to each other.
example:
when a bird walking around you then that bird travel in 2d, but when the bird fly to evade you then it was travel in 3d space. Same as time, imagine you want to in to the future, so you go to the blackhole, because the mass is so immense it create gravity that so powerfull it can bend space and time, and make the time slower in that place, so when you got out from it you are basically travel in time to the future, because let say, 1minute in blackhole equall 100 years out site, so when you 10 minute in there then you go out, to the earth the time have passed for 1000 years. So the conclusion is you basically have travel to future 1000 years relative to earth time

The gravity that a black hole has is so immense that the person you mentioned would be crushed long before interring the black hole, from our perspective, that is.

There's an episode of Stargate SG1 that talks about this (S2-Ep16): it's obviously fictional but the "time differences" within the show explain what i mean.

 

[digibucc]

The gravity that a black hole has is so immense that the person you mentioned would be crushed long before interring the black hole, from our perspective, that is.

There's an episode of Stargate SG1 that talks about this (S2-Ep16): it's obviously fictional but the "time differences" within the show explain what i mean.

it depends on the size of the black hole. a large enough one could suck you
in whole, though most would stretch you out like a piece of spaghetti.

stargate was one of the more accurate shows in regards to the actual science
it portrayed, and probably why i loved it so much just re-watched the entire
series these past few weeks

but yeah, it depends on the perspective of the viewer of course, but a large
enough hole could theoretically suck in a whole person.

 

[HTC]

it depends on the size of the black hole. a large enough one could suck you
in whole, though most would stretch you out like a piece of spaghetti.

stargate was one of the more accurate shows in regards to the actual science
it portrayed, and probably why i loved it so much just re-watched the entire
series these past few weeks

but yeah, it depends on the perspective of the viewer of course, but a large
enough hole could theoretically suck in a whole person.

That's what i'm assuming though i could be wrong.

Recently, i watched an episode of "How the Universe Works" and it was talking about moons. What this episode has in common with black holes is that it was mentioning that Jupiter once had more then 200 moons but some were too close to the planet they were literally crushed by it's gravity.

The same show mentioned NASA sent a "probe" (???) literally into Jupiter: it went roughly 64 Kms inside Jupiter before it was crushed by it's gravity. Jupiter's gravity is so immense it's felt all the way to Saturn.

 

[hv43082]

i entirely disagree. the pie below shows spending:
http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?...=p3&chl=2010 NASA budget|2010 Military budget

we need to STOP trying to police the world, and find ourselves a way to space. our planet will NOT last forever, and every generation we sit here brings us closer to extinction.

the most important thing the human race could EVER do for itself, is come together well enough to make our way into space.

"Focus on space, the Untied States of Space...because I am not stopping at the moon. Write this down M.A.R.S, Mars bitches. That's where we are going. Red Rock, yay yay!"

 

[digibucc]

That's what i'm assuming though i could be wrong.

Recently, i watched an episode of "How the Universe Works" and it was talking about moons. What this episode has in common with black holes is that it was mentioning that Jupiter once had more then 200 moons but some were too close to the planet they were literally crushed by it's gravity.

The same show mentioned NASA sent a "probe" (???) literally into Jupiter: it went roughly 64 Kms inside Jupiter before it was crushed by it's gravity. Jupiter's gravity is so immense it's felt all the way to Saturn.

well obviously there was plenty of impossible/unknown things, it's a sci-fi show. but they
really put effort into properly explaining theories (as simple as possible albeit) , and
adding real science to their plots. that's so rare nowadays with "syfy" crahp.

now nasa is trying to figure out how to withstand the gravity, so they can maybe find
out what all is down there. i love watching the docs where they build the probes and stuff, super interesting.

"Focus on space, the Untied States of Space...because I am not stopping at the moon. Write this down M.A.R.S, Mars bitches. That's where we are going. Red Rock, yay yay!"

what is that from?

 

[theJesus]

Because the cost of exploring space is prohibitive and until we find a way to make some money off of it there will be no incentive to explore. For the most part I think the only way we can continue exploring into space is by removing it from being a government sponsored undertaking and push the cost into the private sector. Surely if there is money to made in a galaxy far far away, it will be done.

So the only motivation to do anything in life is money? I disagree.

 

[HTC]

well obviously there was plenty of impossible/unknown things, it's a sci-fi show. but they
really put effort into properly explaining theories (as simple as possible albeit) , and
adding real science to their plots. that's so rare nowadays with "syfy" crahp.

now nasa is trying to figure out how to withstand the gravity, so they can maybe find
out what all is down there. i love watching the docs where they build the probes and stuff, super interesting.



what is that from?

That same show i mentioned (How the Universe Works) said Jupiter is a gas planet and so is Saturn. That small detail wasn't mentioned when i learned the planets while @ school.

 

[digibucc]

That same show i mentioned (How the Universe Works) said Jupiter is a gas planet and so is Saturn. That small detail wasn't mentioned when i learned the planets while @ school.

i know, the gas part was there but not the understanding that that potentially (likely)
is all the planet is made from.

i mean seriously, that size and immense force - made from gas.

the universe is simply awe-inspiring

 

[D4S4]

There are so many things that NASA is indirectly responsible for that I cant even name them all. Hell, I challenge you to find something that NASA ISN'T indirectly responsible for in today's society. The moon landing fiasco furthered human knowledge/technology more than any project in history.

i haven't gone thru the rest of the thread after reading this post so i may be a lil off topic, but:

if there wasn't NASA, you wouldn't have VELCRO bitchez!

 

[theJesus]

NASA gave us Tang, they're alright in my book just for that..

if there wasn't NASA, you wouldn't have VELCRO bitchez!

Straight from NASA:

"Tang, Teflon, and Velcro, are not spinoffs of the Space Program. General Foods developed Tang in 1957, and it has been on supermarket shelves since 1959. In 1962, when astronaut John Glenn performed eating experiments in orbit, Tang was selected for the menu, launching the powdered drink’s heightened public awareness. NASA also raised the celebrity status of Teflon, a material invented for DuPont in 1938, when the Agency applied it to heat shields, space suits, and cargo hold liners. Velcro was used during the Apollo missions to anchor equipment for astronauts’ convenience in zero gravity situations. Although it is a Swiss invention from the 1940s, it has since been associated with the Space Program."

Source: NASA Spinoff FAQ

 

[wahdangun]

The gravity that a black hole has is so immense that the person you mentioned would be crushed long before interring the black hole, from our perspective, that is.

There's an episode of Stargate SG1 that talks about this (S2-Ep16): it's obviously fictional but the "time differences" within the show explain what i mean.

actually if we can invent antigravity device then it won't matter at all, we can even go back in time through wormhole with that device

 

[HTC]

Not from Youtube but it's the full episode, i think:

http://watchdocumentary.com/watch/how-the-universe-works-episode-02-black-holes-video_0afbc5202.html

This ain't the one i mentioned: that one was titled "Alien Moons".

 

[HTC]

actually if we can invent antigravity device then it won't matter at all, we can even go back in time through wormhole with that device

Don't think so, dude: if you were in a chamber with so-called anti-gravity, you would be OK for as long as the chamber functioned as it should but the chamber itself would be crushed and, therefore, so would you.

EDIT

Oooops: double post.

 

[wahdangun]

Don't think so, dude: if you were in a chamber with so-called anti-gravity, you would be OK for as long as the chamber functioned as it should but the chamber itself would be crushed and, therefore, so would you.

EDIT

Oooops: double post.

don't think so dude lol.

its because if we can generate it past the chamber then it won't matter at all, tough it will difficult to propel the vehicle inside antigravity

 

[pantherx12]

The defense budget is extremely high, but with that budget there is a lot of money being made. Contracts to design and build the weapons which we use to make war, the United States Defense budget creates jobs and helps maintain an entire industry, more so than the exploration of space does.

Protip: if you stopped spending money on guns, you could develop other industries.
( For example, thousands of jobs in hospitals if you spend the money on health care, thousands of engineering jobs if you spent more on space, 1000s of teaching jobs if you developed schools etc)

What you said is what a politician would say, technically correct. But doest''t mean it's the be all and end all.



Or hell! go nuts, and invest the money into developing a society were people are not required to work ( I.E working their whole life to have a home) but choose to work so they can have nice things.

I.E Tax the hell out of tvs etc Make housing, education and food(not chocolate and other crap) cheap as hell, maybe even free.

But why would any government ever do that eh? Better to have a work force you can rely on isn't it? he he

 

[Kreij]

I see that this thread quickly went from science to politics.
We expected that in this new section, HOWEVER, keep the discussion civil and if you are going to make sweeping political statements on the status of funding of various scientific endeavors ... post sources and try to base your posts on something at least marginally verifyable.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just getting you all to learn how to take responsibility for your posts.
Thanks guys. Carry on.

 

[BinaryMage]

++++++

how could science and exploring space NOT be considered the most important thing humans could ever do.

i just don't get it.

I agree entirely. Unfortunately, TPU is not the American government. (W1zzard, you want to run for president?) I think we need to focus on humanity as a species and work together to really explore and better ourselves. We have so much potential that is wasted bickering with and sometimes killing each other that could be used to make incredibly fast progress in fields like space travel, astrophysical research, etc.

The intelligent people of the world just need to band together, form a organization or such, and we could accomplish so much. With the Internet, I think that could very well be possible.

 

[wahdangun]

if just america didn't scrap project orion in the 70's we will already go to mars right now

 

[BinaryMage]

if just america didn't scrap project orion in the 70's we will already go to mars right now

Who knows if Project Orion would work, though, and if it did, it probably would be rather inefficient for long-term propulsion.

 

[D007]

I don't think this thread is supposed to be about the American economy and what/where we should be, according to everyone with an opinion.. We should get back on topic.

I think the study seems very thorough and I take Einsteins word over any forum members any day..lol.. No matter how big of a nerd u think you are, your no Einstein. So when people on a forum try to counter predict a geniuses theories, I can't help but chuckle.
Building/overclocking and programming pc's are nothing compared to physics and quantum physics.
Einstein is still kickin ass, even from the grave.. nice..

 

[a_ump]

I don't think this thread is supposed to be about the American economy and what/where we should be, according to everyone with an opinion.. We should get back on topic.

I think the study seems very thorough and I take Einsteins word over any forum members any day..lol.. No matter how big of a nerd u think you are, your no Einstein. So when people on a forum try to counter predict a geniuses theories, I can't help but chuckle.
Building/overclocking and programming pc's are nothing compared to physics and quantum physics.
Einstein is still kickin ass, even from the grave.. nice..

i hear what your saying, but just because this community is dedicated to computer technologies doesn't mean there aren't any of us with respectable knowledge in other areas, including physics.

OT: This is all very intriguing, but um....so basically this entire project was to further prove something that everyone or almost everyone, had accepted? I guess to me, this isn't exactly huge. If it was some phenominal discovery that proved or supported the idea of something that had long been thought far-fetched, then it'd be epic. Though i could see how it could be considered epic bc of the tech they invented lol