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Need a 4TB family backup solution is it safe?

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from my understanding using a disk based mechanical HD is best for long term storage because of the durability due to not using it everyday compared to compact flash or sdhc cards that need to be plugged every once in a while and their slower speeds being removable although keep look very attractive.

So I'd like you to recommend me a raid5 or something safe I can trust to rely our data not counting fire or other hazards thanks. money is not an issue.
 
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Much better solution is placing important data on your HDD or SSD inside a PC and exact copy on the external HDD. Three or four HDD's for a common user's backup don't make much sense, unless you are torrenting or are expecting nuclear strike or an extreme natural disaster.
Otherwise, 3-4 x 4TB Toshiba X300 or 3-4 x 2TB Toshiba P300 or 3-4 x 2TB WD Black.
 

Aquinus

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money is not an issue.
How much data do you need to store? Is this because you're running out of space and need more or because you want to keep old data safe? If it's the latter I would almost suggest Google cloud storage as it would probably be a good off-site option if money isn't an issue. If this is stuff that you very well might not even touch for months or years at a time, the nearline option is a good option at 0.01 USD per GB/month with the caveat the retrieval costs that same rate (which works out if you're not pulling this data more than once every month or two.) If you need the former, RAID-5 is going to give you the best balance of performance, storage, and redundancy however, things can happen where a RAID can still fail (a disk failure while the RAID is degraded, house burning down, acts of nature, etc.)

So lets start with these two basic questions:
  1. How much data do you need to store.
  2. How often are you going to be accessing it?
 
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Raid 5 is not really recommended for large drives as when a disc fails the remaining ones have to work exta hard and may also fail due to this. The larger the drive the more the odds of it failing during a rebuild.

That said I run freenas with three 2 tb drives and they show as 4 tb

Freenas is free, you just need a fairly decent computer to dedicate to it.
 
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if you only have 4tb of data why not just buy a couple of external hard drives. plug it in and back up to it once a week, next week use drive 2. week 3 use drive 1 ( you can add more drives here...) and you have the option of offsiteing the offweek drive.

option 2 a nas of some form. plenty of cheap nas enclosures .
opttion 3 build you own nas. doesnt need to be high end hardware to run samba.... altho i do always use hardware raid in my homemade nas machines. ( and not that junk that most Motherboards call raid).




Raid 5 is not really recommended for large drives as when a disc fails the remaining ones have to work exta hard and may also fail due to this. The larger the drive the more the odds of it failing during a rebuild.

while this is technically true. it is rarely if ever the case. and if you truely can not stand data loss. raid 6 gives you an additional failure capability. if that's not sufficient move to a professional san/nas solution that has layered raid sets and cabinet/controller redundancy.


Otherwise, 3-4 x 4TB Toshiba X300 or 3-4 x 2TB Toshiba P300 or 3-4 x 2TB WD Black.
no experience with the toshiba drives. but the WD red's are much better for a nas than the blacks. especially for backups.
 

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If you have an old Core2 or Athlon X2 PC collecting dust, they make decent backup NAS units depending on what you need. Slap a couple of 4TB drives, use software RAID1 to mirror them, create a network share with limited access and point the backup software of your choice to that. You could also do a flavor of Linux like Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Ubuntu Server, etc...and run Samba for sure. I backup my work laptop to my Athlon X2 HP that's setup that way with Ubuntu 16, works perfect. You could also use Intel RAID or buy a RAID card...a Dell Perc 6/i is very cheap and easy to manage...but not necessary for most users. Mirroring is pretty easy compared to RAID 5 and 6 where parity is necessary among the array's drives.

I see far too many USB drives failing, but they are definitely an option and a cheap one at that...just have a spare because these modern USB drives sure seem to fail more frequently and some of the USB3 drives come with the USB3 interface on the HDD logic board rather than a SATA to USB interface...so not able to take some of the drives out and just plug into SATA.

I've seen and worked with some RAID 5 and 6 arrays using 4TB drives, rebuild times weren't nearly as bad as I was fearing, but the hardware and software behind the RAID, along with cache and BBU make a difference in how performance is impacted or improved in many cases.

For a simple home setup, USB HDD would be the easy go-to as suggested above. But if someone could source an old office PC based on Athlon X2 or Core2, slap a couple HDD's in there, re-use the Win 7 Pro license, set the HDD's to be mirrored. Create a backup share folder. A more complex setup would be a small SSD for OS, and 2 HDD's for backups only. Mirrored arrays are very easy to work with and the whole point of it is if one drive fails the other is a mirror copy. Swap in a new drive, add to the mirror and move on, it'll perform the task while you're working away on your current PC.

Depending on platform and choices, you have software options too...ranging from using something like FreeNAS as an AIO OS/Software solution, Linux has some options, Windows has a bunch, I prefer Macrium Reflect Free and Veeam Endpoint Backup Free. Assuming the PC you're backing up is Windows based, and how you want backups to occur and how large they will be could bring a few factors into effect. Do you want to simply clone the data over, or do you want to create backup images and files? Then with that do you want to create a full image nightly or do you want to do a full image weekly/monthly and have incremental backups occur nightly? There's pro's and cons to each and if you keep with free software, you'll find the two I recommend have their strong and weak points. We can get to that once you decide what it is you're going to do though. Windows backup works as well...but there are better free solutions out there.

My personal setup on my file server is a RAID5, I use Windows Server Backup to backup to an array that is managed by Windows Server Storage Spaces. It works for now but has room for improvement. And I would use better backup software but I end up diagnosing so many issues in the field with Server Backup I try to duplicate those on my home rig since it's my lab as well.

There's lot's of ways to go about this, depends on how you want your files backed up...or if you want them merely copied. I'd recommend doing backup images, but that's my preference. It also comes down to your experience. If you're not familiar with some network concepts or setting static IP addresses, you might be better off with some USB backup hard drives for now until you are better able to manage the situation for a NAS. So we should clear up what you want, need and are capable of before moving further forward IMHO.

:toast:
 
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I've seen and worked with some RAID 5 and 6 arrays using 4TB drives, rebuild times weren't nearly as bad as I was fearing, but the hardware and software behind the RAID, along with cache and BBU make a difference in how performance is impacted or improved in many cases

A more complex setup would be a small SSD for OS, and 2 HDD's for backups only. Mirrored arrays are very easy to work with and the whole point of it is if one drive fails the other is a mirror copy. Swap in a new drive, add to the mirror and move on, it'll perform the task while you're working away on your current PC.

I think it took 3.5 hours per drive when I expanded my raid 5 set from 4x1tb to 4x4tb drives. on a perc 710 controller I bought off ebay.

personally for backups I wont run a raid 1 mirror. i'll set 2 targets and run backups to each. disadvantage is its more complex. the advantage is you have 2 different backup states. because sometimes the ability to go to an older backup is useful and there's far less chance of both backups being corrupted. probly overkill for a home setup tho.

for backup software i'd recommend acronis. its got some of the best bare metal restore from network. and its not horribly expensive ( its not hard to find it on sale).
 

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Ya separate targets is fine with the appropriate configuration and backup software. Usually I'll run StorageCraft ShadowProtect and ImageManager if I'm getting into cataloging backups, and to separate locations. Again...like you said, too complicated for most home users and needs. StorageCraft doesn't make their software simple...but its not too shabby.

I don't mind Acronis definitely good stuff. If I'm gonna pay...I'd go Macrium first. Mostly that's where my experience lies and I like how I can manage and access bare metal images. Veeam is great for a free client that wants an easy to configure solution that will do incremental backups...but only to one location unless you manually run another location from CLI. But for simple, effective and free its a tough one to beat. The paid version is great as well...not as option oriented as Acronis or Macrium paid versions...but very capable.

I almost snagged a Perc 710...but outta funds until after the holiday season.

:toast:
 
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I just have mine on a NAS box with 2x4TB WD Red drivers mirrored where I have all my important files stored on. Cost me around $700AUS

But the best long term back up is on DVD/Disc as there meant to last 60yrs. Not convenient but still the best for super long term.
 
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One question is does it need to be a live back up. As in continuous?

My important stuff backs up to Google drive. Its only about 80Gb and to large drives on my HTPC. I also burn important family photos, music and videos and doc to Blu Ray disk. 25 Gb disks so actually there is three copies. Live, back up and Disk
My movies I just back up to a large drive and put it in the closet.

I thought about a NAS but for me its not worth the money. I don't need the speed. My htpc has 2X 4Tb + SSD
 
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I back up the FREENAS system idea with the supplemental provision that the storage pools to be mirrored. You could add a ssd to keep the checksum logs on it. You don't really need ecc ram verifying the data once a week should be fine!
 
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How much data do you need to store? Is this because you're running out of space and need more or because you want to keep old data safe? If it's the latter I would almost suggest Google cloud storage as it would probably be a good off-site option if money isn't an issue. If this is stuff that you very well might not even touch for months or years at a time, the nearline option is a good option at 0.01 USD per GB/month with the caveat the retrieval costs that same rate (which works out if you're not pulling this data more than once every month or two.) If you need the former, RAID-5 is going to give you the best balance of performance, storage, and redundancy however, things can happen where a RAID can still fail (a disk failure while the RAID is degraded, house burning down, acts of nature, etc.)

So lets start with these two basic questions:
  1. How much data do you need to store.
  2. How often are you going to be accessing it?
what is the nearline option, is it a cloud storage and where? I don't know how much much data I need, I have some backups on removable portable flash drives and are mostly documents in doc or important audio files but I'm more interested and duplicating heavy material that I just may not find again or will take lots of time to redownload. I have 75mbps download and 5mbps upload speeds so may it won't be complicated to upload great chucks of data to a google or better cloud storage that's fast but my main backups I want to keep local.

I don't know exactly how much I need right now but maybe buying a safe file server might be better that's connected to a gigabit ethernet I don't know samba but I guess I'll have to learn though most of us use windows.
 
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Don't use portable flash memory. It's the least reliable. Use a good quality dvd disk if you have nothing else
 

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what is the nearline option, is it a cloud storage and where? I don't know how much much data I need, I have some backups on removable portable flash drives and are mostly documents in doc or important audio files but I'm more interested and duplicating heavy material that I just may not find again or will take lots of time to redownload. I have 75mbps download and 5mbps upload speeds so may it won't be complicated to upload great chucks of data to a google or better cloud storage that's fast but my main backups I want to keep local.

I don't know exactly how much I need right now but maybe buying a safe file server might be better that's connected to a gigabit ethernet I don't know samba but I guess I'll have to learn though most of us use windows.
Well, 5Mbit up isn't the problem. The question should be how patient are you willing to be? Backups don't need to happen instantly. Google cloud storage is hosted by Google in their data centers, that's about all you need to concern yourself about since Google makes it their responsibility to keep it secure.

If you want something local, you could just get a router with USB 3.0 and find a compatible external hard drive to plug into it. A lot of the nicer routers can act as a NAS with external storage. I know mine can but, it's several years old at this point and only have USB 2.0 but, it most definitely works. I personally have a gateway server with RAID-5 handy.
 
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Don't use portable flash memory. It's the least reliable. Use a good quality dvd disk if you have nothing else
how about these:
16MB sony memory stick with write protect switch.
if I use a DVD disc I have some sony DVD-RW 4.7GB are those good or has to be DVD-R? or other.
 

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I'd personally have a backup hdd internally and then a nas backup of that backup drive. I attempted the second part but didn't go as planned.
 
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Cooling Noctua U9S Twin Fan| Stock Cooler, Copper Core)| Big shairkan B
Memory 2x8GB DDR4 G.Skill Ripjaws 3600MHz| 2x8GB Corsair 3000 | 6x2GB DDR3 1300 Corsair
Video Card(s) MSI AMD 6750XT | 6500XT | MSI RX 580 8GB
Storage 1TB WD Black NVME / 250GB SSD /2TB WD Black | 500GB SSD WD, 2x1TB, 1x750 | WD 500 SSD/Seagate 320
Display(s) LG 27" 1440P| Samsung 20" S20C300L/DELL 15" | 22" DELL/19"DELL
Case LIAN LI PC-18 | Mini ATX Case (custom) | Atrix C4 9001
Audio Device(s) Onboard | Onbaord | Onboard
Power Supply Silverstone 850 | Silverstone Mini 450W | Corsair CX-750
Mouse Coolermaster Pro | Rapoo V900 | Gigabyte 6850X
Keyboard MAX Keyboard Nighthawk X8 | Creative Fatal1ty eluminx | Some POS Logitech
Software Windows 10 Pro 64 | Windows 10 Pro 64 | Windows 7 Pro 64/Windows 10 Home
Flash memory can fail at any time. Okay for temporary storage. Verbatim are the best for disks but some Sonys are fine > http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm

Google Drive give you 15 Gb for free

Ive personally found Verbatim horrible (had a whole pack of DVD's the lot was useless) and Ive never had any issues with TDK in the past 15yrs. Thats just my personal preference anyway.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
12,280 (2.36/day)
Location
Oregon
System Name Juliette // HTPC
Processor Intel i7 9700K // AMD Ryzen 5 5600G
Motherboard ASUS Prime Z390X-A // ASRock B550 ITX-AC
Cooling Noctua NH-U12 Black // Stock
Memory Corsair DDR4 3600 32gb //G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600
Video Card(s) ASUS RTX4070 OC// GTX 1650
Storage Samsung 970 EVO NVMe 1Tb, Intel 665p Series M.2 2280 1TB // Samsung 1Tb SSD
Display(s) ASUS VP348QGL 34" Quad HD 3440 x 1440 // 55" LG 4K SK8000 Series
Case Seasonic SYNCRO Q7// Silverstone Granada GD05
Audio Device(s) Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 // HDMI to Samsung HW-R650 sound bar
Power Supply Seasonic SYNCRO 750 W // CORSAIR Vengeance 650M
Mouse Cooler Master MM710 53G
Keyboard Logitech 920-009300 G512 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro // Windows 10 Pro
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