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Need help with choosing a UPS

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#1
Hi! My old OPTI-UPS DS1500B died and I need help in buying a replacement. I don't know a lot about them so I'm hoping you can help me select one. I've found 3 and they're as follows:

1. APC Power-Saving Back-UPS Pro 1500, 230V

2. PROLINK PRO903WS

3. FSP Proline TW 2K

I was ready to buy the first option but I found the other 2 which are around the same price. I tried looking for a Cyberpower unit but I couldn't find any shop selling them here.

Thanks!
 
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#2
I have the first one. Amazing UPS. Saved my PC from power outage as well as voltage surge 4 times so far(according to the awesome apc powerchute application )
 
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#3
I have the first one. Amazing UPS. Saved my PC from power outage as well as voltage surge 4 times so far(according to the awesome apc powerchute application )
I was leaning towards that as well but I thought I'd ask if others have any experience with the other brands if they're good coz if I'm not mistaken, the PROLINK PRO903WS offers 2400W while the APC Power-Saving Back-UPS Pro 1500, 230V offers 865W.
 
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#4
First, kudos to you for making the wise decision to protect your equipment with a UPS with AVR. :clap:

I also have the APC, though the 115VAC version and it has served me exceptionally well for several years now. I live in Tornado Alley and use my APC 1500VA to protect my computer, router, modem, 4-port Ethernet switch, and both 24" LCD monitors. I also have a similar model protecting my home theater audio equipment, DVR and 55" OLED TV. And I even have a 25+ year old 900VA APC UPS on my garage door opener!

I have no experience with Prolink UPS though the specs for that model look good. I have some experience (all good) with FSP UPS, but not that model.

However, you said your current UPS died, how? I note part of the normal maintenance routine for UPS is their batteries need replacing every 3 - 5 years. Are your batteries good?

Oh, don't let anyone try to convince you that you need a "pure sinewave" UPS. You don't! That push is being instigated by the marketing weenies of the developers of such devices. Critical, mission essential computer systems have been supported just fine with "stepped approximation" to a sinewave UPS for decades. And three factors make pure sinewave output UPS even less important. (1) Today's modern power supplies are much more capable of handling mild to moderate power anomalies than those supplies of yesteryear. (2) It is actually easier for "switch-mode power supplies" (the AC to DC supplies used in all ATX compliant computers) to convert a "stepped approximation" waveform output to DC than it is a pure sinewave. Thus, less heat is generated with such waveforms. And (3), it is important to note that waveform output is only generated when the connected devices are running off the UPS batteries - which even where I live is a rare event, and for only 30 - 45 minutes (or less) when it is required. The rest of the time, the UPS is providing good, clean "regulated" power, not battery backup power.

Source: Uninterruptible Power System Waveforms - Is A Sine Wave Necessary?

To be clear, I am not critical of pure sinewave UPSs and if you can find a quality one that meets your needs within your budget and at a competitive price, there is no reason to avoid them. I am only critical of those who say you "need" a pure sinewave UPS to protect your sensitive computer and network equipment. You don't. That is pure marketing hype.

The only place pure sinewave UPS may be needed is with critical life-support and health monitoring devices used in hospital operating rooms and intensive care units and perhaps some some precision measuring/monitoring laboratories.
 

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#5
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#6
Note the OP is in the Philippines and requires input voltage of 240VAC.
 

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#7
I have the older version of that APC and it still works 100% after a battery change out (it is more than 9 years old.) I recommend APC because they make a great product that they stand behind. Also their customer service is very good.
 

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#8
Note the OP is in the Philippines and requires input voltage of 240VAC.
Well i do not know if they have a Newegg and if they do they will be selling the required model.

But yes he needs the right model of what ever he picks, my bad by thinking it be common sense.
 

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#9
@Bill_Bright
Proving what the guy above says:
Sine (110v, 1485w): 17C -> 52C (quiet, can't tell difference from AC)
Square-Sine (122v, 1090w): 18C -> 41C (loud, obviously straining components), 10% less efficient when considering the inverter as well

There is a difference and it is significant.
That is pure marketing hype.
I would never trust $1000+ of equipment to dirty power. Sure, it's better than losing power entirely but it's just as capable of damaging equipment designed for sine wave AC.


@op:
As far as I know, only CyberPower offers affordable sine wave UPSs. Considering they aren't available in the Philippines, I would go with APC because I've never even heard of the two other brands.
 
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#10
I've always wondered if people who purchase surge protectors and UPS devices for their computers, also purchase them for everything, or other things in their house?
 

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#11
I've always wondered if people who purchase surge protectors and UPS devices for their computers, also purchase them for everything, or other things in their house?
Microwave, oven, toaster, toaster oven, dishwasher, fridges, freezers, etc. aren't protected at all here. They generally don't have much in the way of sensitive electronics and they have capacitors large enough to carry over minor power fluctuations.

TVs, receivers, streaming boxes, consoles, DVD players, printers, etc. are surge protected. These are devices with sensitive electronics and not much lost if it loses power unexpectedly.

Computers, monitors, network equipment, and TV tuners/encoders are plugged into a UPS here. These are sensitive electronics that, should something happen to the power, you need an opportunity to close everything out before power is cut.

My wireless phone system has sort of a built in UPS system because it'll draw power out of the handsets to keep running. It's not surge protected probably should be.
 
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#12
There is a difference and it is significant.
:( I never NEVER EVER said there was no difference. I said we do not need pure sinewave output UPS.

Just the mere fact it is called "stepped approximation to a sinewave" clearly indicates NO ONE, not even the UPS makers are saying there is no difference. That is not the point. The point is AC to DC power supplies and devices that run off DC, as all computers, modern TVs, home audio equipment, etc do, don't need pure sinewave inputs. That is just marketing hype.

If that were even remotely true, pure sinewave UPSs would have been used on computers for the last 3 decades - but they weren't. Why? Because there were not needed. They have only become popular lately because they have come down in price to be competitive, just as all electronics in general have come down in price.
I've always wondered if people who purchase surge protectors and UPS devices for their computers, also purchase them for everything, or other things in their house?
I for my expensive home theater equipment. A good UPS is cheaper than the deductible for my home insurance. And the peace of mind vs the inconvenience of replacing everything is worth considering too. As for my garage door opening, I put one there because there is no handle on the outside to open the door. So to open the door from the outside, you must use the opener. If the power is off, it cannot be opened except from the inside.
 

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#13
If that were even remotely true, pure sinewave UPSs would have been used on computers for the last 3 decades - but they weren't. Why?
Because they're more expensive, by a lot. If manufacturing costs were the same, simulated sine inverters would rarely be used.

Most AC equipment can run off of a simulated sine inverter. At least for a while. But, as demonstrated with the microwave, they may run suboptimally. Simulated sine is a foreign concept to most AC powered appliances. Yes, computers are DC internally, but the power supply (as with most AC powered appliances) has to convert that AC to DC. They're all designed with sine AC in mind.
 
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#14
Microwave, oven, toaster, toaster oven, dishwasher, fridges, freezers, etc. aren't protected at all here. They generally don't have much in the way of sensitive electronics and they have capacitors large enough to carry over minor power fluctuations.

TVs, receivers, streaming boxes, consoles, DVD players, printers, etc. are surge protected. These are devices with sensitive electronics and not much lost if it loses power unexpectedly.

Computers, monitors, network equipment, and TV tuners/encoders are plugged into a UPS here. These are sensitive electronics that, should something happen to the power, you need an opportunity to close everything out before power is cut.

My wireless phone system has sort of a built in UPS system because it'll draw power out of the handsets to keep running. It's not surge protected probably should be.
:( I never NEVER EVER said there was no difference. I said we do not need pure sinewave output UPS.

Just the mere fact it is called "stepped approximation to a sinewave" clearly indicates NO ONE, not even the UPS makers are saying there is no difference. That is not the point. The point is AC to DC power supplies and devices that run off DC, as all computers, modern TVs, home audio equipment, etc do, don't need pure sinewave inputs. That is just marketing hype.

If that were even remotely true, pure sinewave UPSs would have been used on computers for the last 3 decades - but they weren't. Why? Because there were not needed. They have only become popular lately because they have come down in price to be competitive, just as all electronics in general have come down in price.
I for my expensive home theater equipment. A good UPS is cheaper than the deductible for my home insurance. And the peace of mind vs the inconvenience of replacing everything is worth considering too. As for my garage door opening, I put one there because there is no handle on the outside to open the door. So to open the door from the outside, you must use the opener. If the power is off, it cannot be opened except from the inside.
Are the areas you guys live in prone to electrical grid issues etc.?or is it simply a precaution, to avoid replacing extremely expensive items?
 

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#15
My server UPS has logged 124 events since I got it. I think it is not the oldest one here. 2 events (10 seconds) in the last 24 weeks.

I've lost one computer to lightning strike (I think the surge protector prevented a previous lightning strike from taking it out and we didn't realize it so we kept using it; second lightning strike took out the connected computer), lost one power supply to power loss (no UPS), two power supplies to simulated sine UPS power loss events, and none lost to sine UPS power loss events.

Edit: I should note that ridiculously high efficiency PSUs seem to struggle the most with simulated sine.
 
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#16
However, you said your current UPS died, how? I note part of the normal maintenance routine for UPS is their batteries need replacing every 3 - 5 years. Are your batteries good?
Yup I put brand new batteries on it and it still doesn't work properly. I had it checked but the "repair guy" seems to have fucked it up more.

Whats the difference between the prolink and the apc? I'm torn between the two.
 

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#17
That Prolink looks amazing. 3000VA, 2400w, 6 x 12v9ah batteries, and even pure sinewave. If the APC and ProLink are going for the same price and the ProLink does as it says it does, the APC is a rip off. Considering the stats, I would be willing to give Prolink a try. Like I said, on paper, that thing is amazing. The outlets on the ProLink look weird but might be normal for your region. I'd check that before buying.


2400w is overkill for a single computer....unless you plan to run under battery for a long time. Also keep in mind that replacing six batteries when the time comes is going to be fairly spendy.


For the record: FSP is a well known PSU maker. I didn't even know they made UPSs. The FSP UPS you linked is also a 2000VA/1600w pure sinewave monster.
 
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#18
That Prolink looks amazing. 3000VA, 2400w, 6 x 12v9ah batteries, and even pure sinewave. If the APC and ProLink are going for the same price and the ProLink does as it says it does, the APC is a rip off. Considering the stats, I would be willing to give Prolink a try. Like I said, on paper, that thing is amazing.


The outlets on the ProLink look weird but might be normal for your region. I'd check that before buying.
Yes, I'll need an adapter if the outlets are the way they look like on the webpage. There's around 20.00 USD between the two. I don't know why but it seems everything apc branded here is expensive. I guess I'll try my luck with the prolink model then.
 

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#19
APC is usually overpriced (but not by that much). In Philippines, it probably has a hefty tariff on top or something. It is so, so, so beneath the other two you linked, it's not even worth considering with similar prices. There's literally nothing good about it by comparison.


Edit: ProLink is in your region:
http://www.prolink2u.com/contact-us.html

FSP is Taiwan based and APC is USA based.
 
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#20
Because they're more expensive, by a lot. If manufacturing costs were the same, simulated sine inverters would rarely be used.
Of course! You make my point. We, as computer users don't need the more expensive ones because the simulated sinewave models are more than sufficient. As I noted above, the ONLY reasons the pure sinewave models have become more popular lately is (1) their costs have come down and (2) marketing hype.
Are the areas you guys live in prone to electrical grid issues etc.?or is it simply a precaution, to avoid replacing extremely expensive items?
Both! See the Tornado Alley map in my post #4 above. It does not help I live in an older neighborhood where the utilities are above ground.

But it is critical to understand that destructive power anomalies don't always originate off the grid. A faulty 1500W $15 hair dryer made in some obscure backwoods overseas factory by forced, underaged :cry: :mad: labor "regulated" :rolleyes: by corrupt government overseers using parts from a sister factory upriver can introduce destructive anomalies on the circuit too. Any high wattage device like a microwave oven, refrigerator, toaster, can, if faulty (and they all can fail - catastrophically) introduce anomalies on the circuit.
but the power supply (as with most AC powered appliances) has to convert that AC to DC.
No! This is wrong! "Appliances" are not in the same category as "digital electronics". Refrigerators, microwave ovens, regular ovens, toasters, use AC to run their primary components. Yeah, they might have a digital clock or timer or similar control panel, but regardless, they are fully capable of dealing with simulated sinewaves. Our computing and networking devices use only DC and converting a flat top (simulated sinewave) output to DC is easier than converting a pure sinewave to DC. So simulated sinewaves are actually easier on AC/DC converters. Did you read the source link I provided above? It would seem not. :(

They're all designed with sine AC in mind.
:kookoo: No duh! That's what comes out of the wall! But once again, with digital devices, that sinewave is then converted to a "flat" DC. Curves are not good for digital electronics. And flattening a partially flat waveform to totally flat is easier.

You seem to be totally ignoring decades of history and instead have fallen for the marketing hype. You also seem to be confusing inverter (as used in some foreign countries that use a DC grid) and UPS.

If you were correct, FordGT90Concept, almost the entire line of APC brand UPS for home and small office computers use would be worthless or even destructive. Why would APC still be producing destructive devices and then marketing them for computer systems? That would open them up to serious litigation and their lawyers are not stupid!

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that the vast majority of UPS used for home and small office consumers are NOT supplying power via their batteries 24/7. The vast majority of the time, the power simply passes through and is only regulated when needed.

I note my PowerChute logs indicate my APC UPS intervened of total of 5 seconds over the last 4 weeks!
 
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#21
1. In 1985 (Date of above reference) I didn't worry about pure sine wave. But this being 30+ years later there is cause for concern as PSUs are built differently today than they were in 1985. This reference is from 2010.
https://www.dougv.com/2010/03/active-pfc-enabled-psus-are-not-compatable-with-most-low-end-ups/

2. Since APC was sold to Schneider Electric in 2007, the decline in quality has gone from gradual to steep. A colleague had service contracts with several NYC large offices and he'd had contracts to replace UPS every couple of years... he'd resell the old ones after replacing the batteries and would always toss me a few which Id give to folks we built boxes for. Now he just tosses them out and often has to replace units before the scheduled swap out.

3. A decent rule of thumb for sizing is 1.5 times PSU watt rating or 2,o times measured max power draw (use a kil-o-watt)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RGF29Q/?tag=tec06d-20

4. Expect to spend $300 for a 1500 VA unit. And even here there will be significant differences in battery size. If it weighs 25 pounds, I'd pass (better units are 50-60 lbs). Generally if it's tall and shaped like a PC Tower, it's going too have a weak battery. Of course if ya not concerned about battery life and can get by w/ say 2 minutes under full load, ya can forget about getting the big batteries which should save ya $100+
 
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#22
I did say in post #13 a "good" UPS. I have always contended any UPS you buy should be a good UPS, not a "low-end" UPS. Just as I did here, here, and here and elsewhere.

That rule of thumb is invalid because many users don't buy the correct size PSU for their computer. The fact is, most computers actually draw less power than most people think. Power supplies deliver what is demanded of them, not what they are capable of.

I do however, agree (in part) with your kil-o-watt statement. I say in part because IMO, you should buy a UPS to support not just your computer, but your monitor and network gear too. So if using a kil-o-watt device, measure total wattage of ALL your equipment, not just the computer itself.

Generally if it's tall and shaped like a PC Tower, it's going too have a weak battery.
That's not true at all. A tall tower shaped UPS vs a horizontal UPS vs a square box just suggests how the individual cells are oriented. A 12V 9Ah SLA battery is the same regardless the UPS case it is mounted in.
 

FordGT90Concept

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#23
The PSU I had die twice on a simulated sine UPS was a $300, top of the line, Enermax unit (>85% efficiency). After crapping out twice after a power event, I replaced it with one of the CyberPower Pure Sinewave units that were brand spanking new at the time. The first unit I received, I had to RMA directly to CyberPower because of infant mortality. The unit I received in return has been in operation since (years) with the same power supply (also years) with no problems.

@John Naylor says what I know is true. Frankly, I don't care if you disagree. It's your money on the line. Just kindly stop preaching like it doesn't matter because it does. It's not like changing blinker fluid. You're rolling a dice if you use a high efficiency PSU on a simulated sine wave UPS.
 
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Aquinus

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#24
The PSU I had die twice on a simulated sine UPS was a $300, top of the line, Enermax unit (>90% efficiency). After crapping out twice after a power event, I replaced it with one of the CyberPower Pure Sinewave units that were brand spanking new at the time. The first unit I received, I had to RMA directly to CyberPower because of infant mortality. The unit I received in return has been in operation since (years) with the same power supply (also years) with no problems.

@John Naylor says what I know is true. Frankly, I don't care if you disagree. It's your money on the line. Just kindly stop preaching like it doesn't matter because it does. It's not like changing blinker fluid. You're rolling a dice if you use a high efficiency PSU on a simulated sine wave UPS.
I have the APC XS1500 and I've had it for 5 of the 6 years that I've had the Seasonic in my machine and in the last year there have been 32 events. The thing isn't going to kill a PSU unless the PSU was already on shaky ground to begin with. I'll admit, it's definitely extra load for a PSU to cope with because it's going to exhibit higher voltages for longer periods of times than they would otherwise be exposed to but, as long as you're not maxing our your PSU when it switches over, you'll probably be in fairly decent shape. The wonder of modern switched mode power supplies is that the transistors in the PSU are still going to turn off when output voltage gets high enough to switch back to an off state.

If I were to do some hypothesizing, I would suggest that larger PSUs and more efficient PSUs are more likely to handle this kind of state better than smaller and less efficient PSUs. How quickly the MOSFETs react to feedback has a lot to do with how clean the output voltage is but, also with how quickly it reacts to output voltage being "too high." Highly reactive VRM circuitry are going to handle this kind of situation the best and it will only help it by not running at full tilt. So if you have a bronze PSU running near its limit, I'm willing to bet that an approximated sine wave could kill it by over-volting because it can't handle the extended time at max voltage (not RMS, but the top and bottom of the wave.)

So, I would suggest that it's probably okay to use a stepped wave if you have half-decent hardware and running it under ~60% of max. Completely anecdotal evidence but, it's my experience and the reasoning seems to make sense.
 

FordGT90Concept

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#25
It's a Revolution 85+ 850w and was never subjected to more than 400w load at the worst. Most likely was around 200-250w.

Like I said, rolling a dice. PFC power supplies will not have issues on sinewave UPSs where they can have issues on simulated sinewave UPSs.
 
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