1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Need help with NVMe

Discussion in 'Storage' started by Aenra, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:20 PM.

  1. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Was ashamed to ask here again, i don't like busting people's privates..
    But i don't think i'll be getting anywhere.. anywhere else, lol, so here it goes!
    (And where is that donate button? Something to make me feel a bit less *censored*?)

    Everything seems fine with the new rig thus far, except this one thing, Samsung Magician sees my Nvme as a PCIE x2.0 (read speeds accordingly topping at about 1,8k). Now since said same drive went as PCIE x3.0 in the previous mobo, i know it's either my doing or the new mobo's, but that's about as far as i've taken it. If you're still reading and assuming you own the same or similar mobo (Asus X99 Deluxe II), let me copy paste all relevant info:

    - Latest drivers, so it's not that. BIOS, OS, the Nvme itself, all up to date.
    - My drive is mounted on a platform that's installed ON the PCIExpress slots. It is -not- installed in the motherboard's vertical socket. Have tried two different platforms, my old one and the included HyperX module, same issue.
    - Have had the same problem whether i mounted the drive at PCIEx16_3 [slot 4 going down], or PCIEx16_5 [slot 6].
    - In case you're wondering about lanes: GPU at PCIEx16_1 [slot 1], sound card at PCIEx16_2 [slot 3]. Everything else unoccupied.
    - In the BIOS, under "NB PCI-E Configuration", all slots are set to run as gen3
    - In the BIOS, under 'OnBoard Devices Configuration', "U.2_2 Bandwidth" was set to Auto when i tried mounting it at [slot 4]PCIEx16_3.
    (the other option being disabled, in which case obviously drive is not even 'seen').
    - In the BIOS, under 'OnBoard Devices Configuration', "PCIEx16_5 Bandwidth" was set to 4x when i tried mounting it at (slot 6)PCIEx16_5.
    (tried 8x just to be sure and, logically as they share lanes, it couldn't 'see' the drive. So at x4).
    ((both slots, same issue))
    (((can't try slot 5/PCIEx16_4, as it shares with slot 1 and doing so would lower the gpu at a x8)))

    What can i be missing?

    Relevant schems:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Needless to reiterate, but my sincere thanks. If only for reading :)
     
  2. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    19,334 (6.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8,603
    Location:
    IA, USA
    https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/X99-DELUXE-II/specifications/
    40-Lane CPU-
    4 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16, x16/x16, x16/x16/x8, x8/x8/x8/x8) *1:pCIe x16_3 shares bandwidth with M.2 and U.2_2. It runs at x16 mode by default. PCIe X16_5 shares bandwidth with U.2_1. It runs at x4 mode by default with U.2_1 enabled.
    1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x1 mode)
    1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (max at x4 mode) *3: PCIe x16_2 shares bandwidth with USB3_34 and USB 3.1_EA34. It runs at x2 mode by default.
    1 x PCIe 2.0 x1

    I think the problem is your "platform." I assume this "platform" is a PCI Express card with two M.2 slots. It likely has a PCI Express 2.0 chip on it.
     
    AsRock, SomeOne99h, Vario and 2 others say thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  3. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Thanks for replying :)

    After a lot of trial and error, i thought about that too, but discounted it.
    Kinda tragic if a mobo of this value cannot do what a 150bucks cheaper one could, lol
     
  4. Potatoking

    Potatoking

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    113 (0.10/day)
    Thanks Received:
    52
    Location:
    Prague CZ
    I have looked at the manual, m.2 shares lines with pcie x16_3,
    have you tried removing the sound card?
    if nothing works you can get pcie x4 to m.2 adapter card - cheap stuff
     
    Aenra says thanks.
  5. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    - The sound card is in slot 3/PCIEx16_2, which (to my poor understanding) is one of the two "fixed" PCIE 2.0 slots (the other being out of the question anyway, covered entirely by the GPU). Sound card runs on x1.0 anyway, so no problem there. Slotting it elsewhere would have more serious consequences than leaving it there; where it is, i lose one USB at the back, have a second USB again at the back becoming USB2.0. Don't use either, so that's fine. Move it, and i force another PCIE lane to drop to 8x without gaining anywhere else.
    Long story short, lol, unless the manual has an error, i think the sound card is where it should be?

    - I saw m.2 and 16_3 share lanes, yeah.. except:
    a) the actual m.2 slot is empty, so nothing is holding the 16_3 back.
    b) even if somehow that doesn't matter (ie they share even when one is disabled), be reminded problem persists even if i move the drive elsewhere. Tried another "x3.0" slot and have had the same exact thing.

    - Am not sure i follow regarding the adapter.. is it something different than these two i currently own? Cause them two haven't helped..
    https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/
    http://www.aquatuning.us/water-cool...e-3.0-x4-adapter-fuer-m.2-ngff-pcie-ssd-m-key

    Edit: the one thing i haven't tried is mounting the drive on the vertical slot. Just refraining from doing so as:
    i) it's in a really bad spot, will literally be hugging the fourth RAM; also, way they made it, it will be facing 'the wrong way', ie no air hitting it from any of my fans.
    ii) theoretically it shouldn't make a difference, considering the shared lane. If mounted vertically, horizontal is free, full lane; if mounted horizontally, vertical is free, so again full lane. Right? :S

    If all else fails (try Wales), i might give it a shot though.. (am really starting to hate X99, lol)
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017 at 10:32 PM
    CAPSLOCKSTUCK says thanks.
  6. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    19,334 (6.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8,603
    Location:
    IA, USA
    Hyper M.2 explicitly says PCI Express 3.0, kryoM.2 does not.

    #1 PCIEx16_1 contains the video card.

    #2 PCIEx16_2 "shares bandwidth with USB3_34 and USB 3.1_EA34. It runs at x2 mode by default." I know you have your sound card in this slot. Do you have anything in the USB3_34 (front panel header) and USB 3.1_EA34 (rear port) ports?

    #3 The motherboard M.2 slot only supports SATA protocol, not NVMe. Putting anything in there will mess with the PCIEx16_3 slot.

    #4 PCIEx16_4 to my understanding is empty.

    #5 The motherboard U.2 slot does support NVMe but, well, going down that path is kind of nonsense. You found some U.2 options in the motherboard. I'd just disable that U.2 if it lets you because it's not really something anyone is going to be using unless they bought one of the first Intel NVMe cards that were available on the market. Putting anything in there will mess with the PCIEx16_5 slot.

    Handy dandy PDF...
    http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb...e-o.pdf?_ga=1.230343196.1867268488.1487031336

    It has an SLI/crossfire switch. What position is it in?


    In your situation, I think I would go full retard:

    1) set SLI/crossfire switch to 3-way:
    #1 video card (3.0 x16)
    #2 empty
    #3 Hyper M.2 + Samsung 960 Pro (3.0 x16)
    #4 empty
    #5 sound card (3.0 x8)

    2) Make sure all integrated M.2 and U.2 slots are unused.

    3) [​IMG]



    Edit: HOLD THE PHONE! Hyper M.2 NVM Express SSD support available with the ASUS Hyper Kit* (*Sold separately)

    That rabbit hole is full of stupid, toss the Hyper M.2 aside! ...


    Edit: Looking at that kyroM.2, it makes zero mention of NVMe too. Both are worthless for this endeavor by the looks of it.


    Edit: Here's an example of one that says it explicitly supports NVMe:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017JGVTAM/?tag=tec06d-20
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017 at 11:13 PM
    SomeOne99h and Aenra say thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  7. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Damn, thanks for all the effort man! :)

    I know the Kryo doesn't mention, but it does support it. Used it on the Gigabyte x99 mobo, drive showed as x3.0, read speeds and IOPS as advertized.

    Now as to the rest, lol

    #1 yes
    #2 no, nothing on either USB slot. When i'm clueless, i play it safe, lol
    #3 glad to know i did the right thing :)
    #4 yes, tried there too, messed my gpu (brought it down to x8), so now it's empty
    #5 i know, have it disabled too where possible (one option only gives you auto/enabled, so that one's on 'auto')

    Jeesus.. you think it's the SLI switch? hahahahaha, ima gonna go out naked if it's that! Will try it, lol..
    (have it at the leftmost setting currently, ie /one gpu)

    As to the link, once again, thanks for all the effort, but i swear to you, the Kryo didn't prevent the Nvme from showing up as x3.0 in the other mobo, 101% certain on that. I checked, lol
     
    SomeOne99h says thanks.
  8. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    19,334 (6.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8,603
    Location:
    IA, USA
    The reason for the using the SLI switch is because it should theoretically force the lanes to be as advertised (and there's no way for them to be PCIe 2.0).
     
    SomeOne99h and Aenra say thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  9. CAPSLOCKSTUCK

    CAPSLOCKSTUCK Spaced Out Lunar Tick

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    6,715 (4.62/day)
    Thanks Received:
    12,443
    Location:
    llaregguB...WALES

    Thankyou for the " Twin Town " quote.......:peace:
    My favourite movie.
     
    Aenra says thanks.
  10. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Liked it too :)

    Did the switch thingy, same old, lol.. 2.0 x4
    Ah well, least i tried.

    And again everyone, many many thanks for everything. Really appreciate it.
    /bow
     
  11. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Update:

    (disclaimer being that this is based solely on user comments, rather than anything official)

    Looks like @FordGT90Concept pointed the right way after all..
    To my current and revised understanding,
    i) the mobo-included https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/ only helps so as for you to mount an m.2 horizontally; that's all it does. It's "Nvme-agmostic".
    ii) the mobo itself, being a rebrand of a rebrand, is also "Nvme-agnostic", incapable of natively (is that the word?) supporting Nvme, like other, a LOT cheaper boards can. Which is why my other adapter didn't do anything either..

    To have an Nvme driven at 3.0 x4, you need this and only this, unrelated to the adapter above: https://www.asus.com/Motherboard-Accessory/Hyper_Kit/
    (no, not others like it, this one is specific; read on)

    - Assuming you have it, you need then go into BIOS settings, into PCH configuration (whatever that is), into SATA, and then click on 'enable Asus hyper kit'. Theoretically, this will make your stupid re-re-branded 500bucks (lol...) mobo drive the disk as it should have in the first place.
    - (optionally) you can plug said https://www.asus.com/Motherboard-Accessory/Hyper_Kit/ onto the included https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/HYPER_M2_X4_MINI_CARD/ onto a PCIe slot, so as to not have anything mounted on the mobo ittself.

    Now considering this is all just user comments (thank god for newegg sometimes) and that Asus has literally ignored me thus far, may well be i'll spending another 30ish bucks for nothing. But i'm gonna try and see if that sorts it. Am covered in everything else, so assuming this DOES work, the hell with it, i'll pay the extra.
    Wil post back when it's all done; so you can all laugh, lol

    /fingers crossed
     
  12. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    19,334 (6.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8,603
    Location:
    IA, USA
    How does the Hyper Kit help though? All it does is turn the M.2 into a U.2 for connecting 2.5" U.2 NVMe SSDs. Your Samsung 960 Pro is an M.2.

    I mean, the whole Hyper thing for both products comes across as kind of scam-like. First of all, the only requirement for NVMe is a chipset that supports it and PCIe x4 lanes. If the M.2 slot doesn't have access to x4 lanes, then why would a M.2 to U.2 adapter card have access to x4 lanes either? That goes for the Hyper add-in card as well as the M.2 built into the motherboard. Logic dictates the U.2 adapter will be stuck with (probably) x2 lanes no matter what M.2 you stick it in.


    Personally, I would have tried that Ableconn PEXM2-SSD card. Says right on it supports NVMe where nothing else I looked at in your case makes that claim. There's also lots of reviews on it saying that they're getting the performance they expected, even with a Samsung 960 Pro. In other words, if that Ableconn doesn't give you the performance you expect, Asus is solely to blame. If the system is new (<30 days), I'd be demanding a refund on it.



    Edit: Here is an example of an SSD that you need U.2 for:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011HYVOY8/?tag=tec06d-20

    Super rare (I only know of three models from Intel and that's it) and really expensive. U.2 made a lot of noise but it's literally already a dead standard. PCI Express add-in boards and M.2 M-key have taken over.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017 at 6:29 PM
    Aenra says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU
  13. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    My understanding is that without using it and enabling the relevant BIOS setting ('Hyper Kit -> Enabled'), the Nvme just won't run at its max speeds; least not in this mobo.
    (do note here that i have tried enabling it with both adapters and got nada, drive isn't even seen. So whatever it is that this setting does, it is meant to go along with the actual module).

    *edit: The mini module, not the hyper one, the one included in the mobo.. it doesn't show from the web pic, but it has a tiny switch on it; left for m.2, right for 'Hyper'. Circumstancial, but it does support the whole notion.. mini being an adapter, will be seen as just that; an adapter. You plug the Hyper on (instead of mounting it straight on the mobo), you flip the switch too. Now it's a 'Hyper' adapter. Or just PR shit, lol

    How or why is beyond me. Now as previously stated, may well turn out to be useless in my case. Am just willing to 'risk' 30 bucks to find out, especially since it's my last resort.. nothing else left to try, lol

    As to the adapter you mention? Have tried both i already own in the previous mobo (yes, i took everything apart again and put the old mobo back on to be sure) and both gave me 3.0 x4 without the need for specific settings, input or what not. Meaning it IS Asus's fault :)
    Had either, not both, just one of them, failed to provide the relevant speeds, i'd be more than happy to purchase the one you name above.. but since they both did, i can only conclude that they do what they're meant to, even if the manufacturer neglected to specify that yes, they do support gen 3 speeds.

    Anyway, such is my reasoning.. you may disagree.. :)
    And thanks for replying btw, lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017 at 9:17 PM
    FordGT90Concept says thanks.
  14. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Forgot to add an important detail, please see the *edit above. My apologies everyone.
     
  15. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    23,441 (5.71/day)
    Thanks Received:
    9,443
    Just FYI, that isn't what the SLI switch does. All the SLI switch does is light up the LEDs near the ports you should put the graphics cards in. It doesn't change the slot configurations at all.
     
    Aenra and FordGT90Concept say thanks.
    10 Year Member at TPU Crunching for Team TPU More than 25k PPD
  16. Aenra

    Aenra

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    71 (1.65/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13
    At this point, am willing to try anything, including voodoo, mantras and sacrifices.. but yeah, that's all it did :)
     
  17. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    19,334 (6.33/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8,603
    Location:
    IA, USA
    I hope it works then because, yeah, I'm out of ideas too.
     
    Aenra says thanks.
    Crunching for Team TPU

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)