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Neutrinos still faster than light in latest version of experiment

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#1
The scientists who appeared to have found in September that certain subatomic particles can travel faster than light have ruled out one potential source of error in their measurements after completing a second, fine-tuned version of their experiment.

Their results, posted on the ArXiv preprint server on Friday morning and submitted for peer review in the Journal of High Energy Physics, confirmed earlier measurements that neutrinos, sent through the ground from Cern near Geneva to the Gran Sasso lab in Italy 450 miles (720km) away seemed to travel faster than light.

The finding that neutrinos might break one of the most fundamental laws of physics sent scientists into a frenzy when it was first reported in September. Not only because it appeared to go against Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity but, if correct, the finding opened up the troubling possibility of being able to send information back in time, blurring the line between past and present and wreaking havoc with the fundamental principle of cause and effect.



Full article here.
 
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#2
sweet, time travel here i come, lol
 
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#3
It's still not a sure thing yet of course. There is a lot of timing factors to tackle next. Darn science... why can't you be faster!
 
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#4
this is awesome. i really hope to be reincarnated now to experience the space colonization and exploration era. :D
 
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#5
Umm so what? Pasts are as blur and undefined as futures, quantum mechanics says so.
 
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#6
Well in that case I want to send an email to my past self with some investment suggestions!
 

cadaveca

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#7
I got hit with a link to this first thing this morning.

Interesting stuff, for sure.
 

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#8
Well in that case I want to send an email to my past self with some investment suggestions!
stock market would break down before the email would reach you, which is one of the most reliable indicators that time travel to the past has been invented
 

cadaveca

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#9
From what I get from the published stuff is that they need to account for the possiblity of some weird gravitational time distortion that may have affected the results, something Einstein accounted for(ie. time is slower in orbit as gravitaitonal forces are weaker).

That made me think..is it possible that there are places in the planet that time moves slower, and yet others that it moves faster, and all this experiment has done is found one of those places?

I mean, based on the response from MINOS(Fermilab), that's what they could be suggesting...
 
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#10
All seriousness aside, there are places in Louisiana and Wisconsin that appear to move slower than other areas of the planet. Canada too.
 

cadaveca

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#11
All seriousness aside, there are places in Louisiana and Wisconsin that appear to move slower than other areas of the planet. Canada too.
Technically, given the right planetary surface environment, elevation is enough to distort time, uh...right?

It's just weird to me that a scientist much suggest so, without proof of such. Or maybe there is proof, and I'm clueless(very likely).:laugh:

But maybe it was possibly reference gravitional effects form teh moon? I mean, the moon affects tides...

Anywya, jsut show me where time travels the fastest. That's what I want to see.
 
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#12
Technically, given the right planetary surface environment, elevation is enough to distort time, uh...right?

It's just weird to me that a scientist much suggest so, without proof of such. Or maybe there is proof, and I'm clueless(very likely).:laugh:

But maybe it was possibly reference gravitional effects form teh moon? I mean, the moon affects tides...

Anywya, jsut show me where time travels the fastest. That's what I want to see.
On a very small scale yeah since at higher altitudes your rotational velocity (due to the rotation of the Earth) will be faster. And the faster you travel time slows down (so from the reference frame of someone traveling slower the person traveling faster will age slower). Obviously time dialation is more observable when an object is traveling a significant percentage of the speed of light.
 
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#13
Time travel is a perceptional illusion and Einstein already eluded to that: you may be able to witness it, but are never able to interact with it.
One of Einstein's detractors put it best when noting the very important fact of an observer's point of view:
"If a bus travels at the the speed of light, but an occupant runs from the back to the the front of a bus, he, in theory, would appear to move faster than light".
Now, we all know that's not correct, but to the observer, this would seem to be the case.

Relativity still reigns supreme..
More investigation is required :)
 

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#14
if time travel were possible then wouldn't people from the future have already visited us? or maybe they already have but are secretive about it! or maybe every time we catch on the visitors from the future scrub time somehow so we never find out. or maybe they are trying to prevent the coming robot apocalypse. omg run!!!111
 
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#15
if time travel were possible then wouldn't people from the future have already visited us? or maybe they already have but are secretive about it! or maybe every time we catch on the visitors from the future scrub time somehow so we never find out. or maybe they are trying to prevent the coming robot apocalypse. omg run!!!111
Exactly.
It's why statements like "observation without interference" are simply not possible. The mere fact you are there, already changes that scene.
Et cetera ;)
 
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#16
"faster than light"
It was literally billionths of a second faster.
As to what that means, who knows?
Maybe just a miniscule localised fluctuation in 'c'; something the neutrinos interacted with along their path?
Microscopic wormholes that allowed the neutrinos to jump unimaginably small distances occasionally, making it appear that they were travelling faster than light?
Quantum fluctuations of some kind could account for it... maybe.

I don't see how you can translate this into travelling faster than light...
As far as I know, although tachyons are theoretically possible, there is no evidence that they exist, even with these neutrino experiments. Some kind of state shift from neutrino-to-tachyon-to-neutrino? Who knows.
Maybe such things are possible on the small scale, just as apparent teleportation seems to be possible with single particles, but scaling it up to a macro scale that is usable by us would be astronomically more difficult if not impossible.
 
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#17
I thought we already knew to account for time dilation in these measurements? Or are science fiction writers more on top of this shit than scientists?
 

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#18
Maybe such things are possible on the small scale, just as apparent teleportation seems to be possible with single particles, but scaling it up to a macro scale that is usable by us would be astronomically more difficult if not impossible.

Enter Half-Life 2, and destruction before teleportation. Create a field that slows time, and possibly both the destruction and "re-assembly" of matter is possible.


Manipulation of time doesn't need to be for time travel, in the sense that it's commonly though of. It could have many, many uses.:roll:
 
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#19
I thought we already knew to account for time dilation in these measurements? Or are science fiction writers more on top of this shit than scientists?
Time dilation does not play a role. Time dilation only plays a role if YOU are the one travelling close to the speed of light, not if you are measuring from outside.
 
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#20
Time dilation does not play a role. Time dilation only plays a role if YOU are the one travelling close to the speed of light, not if you are measuring from outside.
Then what is the word I'm looking for? Time gradient? Differential?
 
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#21
Time dilation does not play a role. Time dilation only plays a role if YOU are the one travelling close to the speed of light, not if you are measuring from outside.
That's not entirely true. When making measurements that are as precise as these ones are time dilation from one part of the earth to another can throw off the measurements enough to imply things that may not be true. The effect is simply greater when you increase gravity/speed. In this case it's time dilation caused by variation in the earths gravity.

That being said the scientists in charge of the experiments have apparently already accounted for that.
 
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twilyth

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#22
Yes. Plus they've changed the beam topography so that there are very short bursts followed by long pauses (under 50ns I think and over 500ns for the pauses)
 
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#24
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/20...neutrinos-Not-so-fast-say-new-findings.-Video

So it wasn't faster than light, finally someone said something sane:

Neutrinos pumped down from CERN, near Geneva, should have lost most of their energy if they had traveled at even a tiny fraction faster than light. But in fact, the ICARUS scientists say, the neutrino beam as tested in their equipment registered an energy spectrum fully corresponding with what it should be for particles traveling at the speed of light and no more.
 

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#25
darn, i was hoping to go back to the future.