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New AMD Build Advice

itterbium

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Hello folks,

I'm new to the forum and I've been reading on it as much as I could before registering as well from other places of the internet, but as all builds are a bit unique I wanted to get your opinion on this one. As well, I haven't purchased anything since 2014-15 so I'm a bit out of the game so I really appreciate your advice.

Here are my details:

- Country: UK
- Budget: £ 1700-1800
- OC: Probably medium-minimal
- Future Proofing: As much it makes sense, altho not the best time with the new Ryzen and RTX on the way (but I got tired of waiting)
- RGB: I prefer not to have much of that; you could say I'm a bit old school.
- Purpose: Coding, VMs with Kubernetes and gaming

- Build: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/cwZdyk


Some reviews I could find:

- Mobo: https://www.thefpsreview.com/2020/02/26/msi-meg-x570-unify-motherboard-review/
- RAM QLV: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MEG-X570-UNIFY#support-mem-19

Thank you,
Itter -

EDIT: Added purpose :)
 
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How does that Be Quiet! Pure Base 500 compare to the Define 7 Compact?
I don't have anything against that Corsair HX Platinum power supply, but for the same price you could get a SeaSonic PX-850 or Prime Ultra 750.
 

itterbium

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The Define 7 compact doesn't seem to be in stock up until next month unfortunately, it does have a clear tempered glass which I'm not that much of a fan. Altho, it's an interesting alternative. Some people say the Dark Pro 7 might be a struggle to fit in the be quiet! case. What do you think?

Regarding the PSU, at least on Amazon UK, that one is the cheapest of the three you've mentioned, I did considered the SeaSonic PX-850.

Thanks for your comments!
 
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Matisse Ryzen OC seems to be mostly either pointless, and/or impossible (without liquid nitrogen cooling).
Rocket 4.0 throttles to SATA speeds once its SLC cache fills.
DR4Pro is a cooler for a 3950X, not a puny 3700X. Speaking of that, I never saw much point in the R7s given the current price points - another $100-150 extra gives you the mighty 3900X with 12/24, while you could save the same amount by downgrading to the 3600 and only lose 2 cores; if you like single-thread you can opt for the 3600XT instead which has awesome single-thread - better than the 3700X in fact (the only XT that makes any sense, imho) while still being way cheaper than the 3700X. If you want even better gaming performance -> Intel.

Oh and, purchasing a high-end RTX right not may not be the best idea ever given the impending Ampere launch.
 

itterbium

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Thanks @Selaya, what do you recommend instead for m2 ssd?

Fair point on the CPU, I will have a look at those and see if they are available and within range. About Intel how does it compare with the i9-9900K? What mobo you recommend similar to the MSI one?

I was actually waiting on the launch but I got a bit tired, people mentioned that even if they release it on September being to purchase on given stock or price will be difficult.

Thanks a lot!
 
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Actually I would recommend Optane (HHHL or U.2; the M.2 will heatbomb your system); but thats $300+ for 280GB.
Failing that, 970 PRO/EVO Plus. The PRO is MLC and doesn't throttle at all basically, the EVO Plus is TLC and will throttle to ~1,500MBps.

9900K/10900K will give you like, up to 10% extra fps but honestly for the vast majority of us mere mortals the difference between 130 and 140 is but academic. For basically everything else (ie, production) Ryzens are just better. As for Z390/490 boards, I really don't have the slightest clue; I have an R9 system.

And yeah, you can probably count on Ampere having sky-high release prices. I'd have said that it's basically all up to AMD now - how good their RDNA2 cards will turn out; the more powerful the better even if you don't plan on purchasing any - they will cut NVidia prices.

If you can bear with not having a discrete GPU for a few months however, may I suggest you the R5 4650G APU - it has actually useable integrated graphics, even for 720p/1080p gaming at medium/low settings; and CPU-wise it is basically a 3600X with a bit smaller L3 cache, and you can always upgrade to a discrete GPU later on. (It doesn't support PCIe 4.0 however.)
 
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Pci-e 4.0 is the way to go. choose a motherboard with all the features you want first. Then fill it in.

Not sure what you have for a discreet card now, but waiting a month or two just to find out whats coming out might server you better, mainly because you see price drops whenever a new card comes out.
 
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If your neighbor came to you and said I need to borrow a tool, what would you give him ? To provide and useful solution to your neighbor's problem, wouldn't you have to know whether he wants to bang in a nail, put in a crew of loosen a bolt ? What will the PC be used for ? Rather than tell you what I think you should do, since I have the time this morning, after some general comments in component choices, I'll address why "what you do with the PC matters" and how one might approach making that choice for themselves.

First on your selections:

Motherboard: The Unify is a great board with sound VRM componentry.

Cooler: Id grab the Fuma 2 which is cheaper and out performs the beQuiet by 3C and produces the same noise levels

CPU: Here's where we have the "which tool to use problem" ... what will the PC be used for ? If it's all about gaming .... there's better choices
The £276.95 3700x produces a score of 92.5% in gaming ....
The £249.00 10600k produces a score of 98.1% in gaming ....
The £187.49 10500 produces a score of 96.2% in gaming ....
The £162.40 10400F produces a score of 95.7% in gaming ....

Don't fall for the more cores / it's better in everything else thing .... Let's look at Video Editing for example

The £279.95 3700x produces a time of 253.1 in video editing ....
The £249.00 10600k produces a time of 241.0 in video editing .... .... £30 cheaper for more performance
The £187.49 10500 produces a score of time of 254.7 in video editing .... £92 cheaper for 99.4% of the performance
The £162.40 10400F produces a score of time of 267.4 in video editing ....

Look at the apps you actually use on an every day basis in TPUs performance tests ... look at which choice comes out on top. Comparing 3700X and 10600k, TPU wrutes:

"The differences vary wildly between applications, especially tasks that are easy to parallelize, like rendering, are AMD's strongest suit, and Intel has a clear lead in single and low-threaded apps, which are relevant to the majority of consumers today. "

Synthetic Benchmarks - Do you make your living or spend your spare time running benchmarks ? No ? then not relevant
Rendering - You want AMD if you spend a significant part of your day rendering
Software and Game Development - AMD has a 7 - 10% lead here, if that's your thing, you want AMD.
Web Browsing - Tossup, Intel takes 2/3 here
Science and Research - AMD averages 5% lead here so if you are involved in Brain Neuron Simulation on a daily basis, definitely should go AMD.
Office Apps - With the MS office programs, performance between the 2 choices is very close and AMD takes 2/3 ... but scripted benchmarks do not really indicate actual production as the script involves 100s of keystrokes and in real life, the user has a pause between each of those. This one doesn't reflect reality so it's one I ignore.
Photo and Video Editing - This is important to many gamers, well at least the latter. Intel has a 14% lead in photo editing and 5% on video editing
Photogrammetry and Text Recognition - Only surveyors will have an interest in photogrammetry; while in my business I use text recognition a few times a year I think most folks would have an occasional need. Intel takes the 1st by 13% / AMD takes the 2nd by 11% . In eather case, the frequency of use leaves this category out of consideration for most users.
Virtualization - If ya running MySQL or programming Java, you should definitely go AMD which has a 20% or more advantage here.
Compression - Unless you spend ya day compressing and uncompressing or encrypting files, this will hardly be a basis for comparison ... but in case ya do, RAR likes Intel by 14% .... 7 Zip likes AMD by 39% (avg compress / decompress) and encryption by 11%
Media Encoding - Like rendering, this is AMDs wheelhouse

Picking a CPU is not a popularity contest, it doesn't get you into a club or show your peers that you buck trends. When you want to bang in a nail, a hammer is better tool for that application than a screwdiver or a wrench. When you want to loosen a bolt, a wrench is better tool than a screwdiver or a hammer. You assemble the contents of a toolbox based upon the jobs you will have to do when you arrive at the place you are going to do them. There is no "best tool", just the best tool for your applications. There are applications where more RAM will make your PC perform faster, but if you don't use any of them, it's just a waste of money.

In short ... it's great help to those reading your posts, to list your intended uses so that you can get the best possible responses. Note also that and comparison of two specific CPUs will not carry over to another two CPUs ... If you move up in price tiers, what's true at one level may not hold at another.

Certainly there are things the the 3700X will do better, but if you don't do any of them, it's hardly relevant. If you switch, again the Unify is a solid choice

Storage: Most go the Samsng route for SSDs but it hardy matters from a user point of view. It's not going to change our life in any way other than knowing it benchmarks faster. Howecer, the SSD ony affects the speed of what's on it ... anything oin the HD will be at HD speeds, unless you get a hybrid. We have been usng them exclusively for 9 years, all arte still in service, all report good condition and they are a lot faster than HDs.

Windows Boot Times:
SSD 15.6 seconds
SSHD 16,5 seconds
HD 21.2 seconds

And in gaming, after 2 of 3 game loads ... gaming bencmarks are up to 2.5 times faster. The X300 comes witha 1 year warranty ... the SSHDs w/ 5 years. I have seen the 2.5" 2 TB FireCudas selling for £99.00 in UK an amazon ... £95.00 for the 3.5" model The 4 TB HD's 1 year warrantee scares me ... I have twin 2 TB SSHDs tho there are 4 TB models also.

GFX Card - 2070S is a sweet spot right now, but it will be yesterdays news in 30 - 60 days. MSI is a sound choice as for the last 2 generations, this has been the brand / series most found at the top of TPUs performance testing

PSU: You could certainly get away with a smaller PSU ... but I like to have my systems closer to the peak eficiency poing to minimize heat generation, fan noise and better overclocking performance so no objection there.... but the SeasonicPrime Ultra Gold 850 is cheaper @ £163.99 and the Focus Plus Platinum is £181.40

The GX Focus Plus Gold (successor to the FX) mdrops in a week and is only £109.99

I think the componentry you have assembled warrants a better case. That case, with 2 fans is a bit weak for 365 watt load w/o the 238 watts GFX card

The cheapest I'd go with that set of components would be the Phanteks 400S @ £74,99 ... the the 600S is a significant step up (£116.00). Im not planning to do any builds till next year but Im tempted to buy the Evolv X just to put on my desk and look at .... as some reviewrrs have said, case should have a place in an art museum For the most part it's the same case as the 600S but "prettied" up a bit.
 
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Welcome to TPU! :toast:

I know that PSU prices are crazy at this time, but you don't need an 850 watt unit. 650 watts will do fine.

You haven't said what this system is for. If it's for gaming, I'd suggest an Intel build with the i7-10700. (not than an AMD build is wrong, Intel is just better for gaming)

The HP EX950 reviewed very well
 
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If your neighbor came to you and said I need to borrow a tool, what would you give him ? To provide and useful soltion to your neoghbor's problem, wouldn't you have to know whether he wants to bang in a nail, put in a crew of loosen a bolt ?

What will the PC be used for ?

[ ... ]
Always a good idea; kinda forgot to ask. Do bear in mind that Intel Shitlakes are still on 14nm and thus will generate a lot of heat when they load all their cores - even for the 10700 you will need something like the DR4 Pro ... or better if you do not want your CPU to thermal throttle after having it on full load for like more than a minute. Keep that in mind when you're making your purchase decision.

As for the SSHD, I would not recommend that for a new build. A 2TB MX500 can be had at ~$200; that's a much better proposition than an SSHD.
The EX950 looks pretty good except for the far end of this:

This looks like something more is happening once the drive is getting filled; W1zzard didn't seem to have tested the drives behavior when it's almost full (to be fair, the EX950 would hardly be the only drive to exhibit such behavior), and I do not own one so I couldn't tell you whether it does something bad at that point. Another thing to keep in mind.

Price/performance wise I'd actually recommend the 2070 (non-Super) right now actually, it can be had as low as <$400 these days while the 2070S is generally $500ish. That however is a momentary snapshot - it could change as fast as in a day and a half, GPU prices right now are really volatile given that both major vendors' next-gen releases are due any time now, basically.
 

itterbium

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Thanks for all your advice and warm welcome!

So a bit of an update, I got a bit anxious due stock was very low on some stuff and ended up purchasing some of the stuff and stretching the budget up to ~£2000

Here is what I have done:

- SSD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 (2280) Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (MZ-V7S1T0)
- RAM: G.SKILL F4-3600C17D-32GTZKW 32 GB (16 GB x 2) Trident Z Series DDR4 3600 MHz PC4-28800 CL17 Dual Channel Memory Kit - Black/White
- CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X Processor (12C/24T, 70 MB Cache, 4.6 GHz Max Boost)
- GPU: MSI NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 SUPER GAMING X TRIO Graphics Card '8GB GDDR6, 1845MHz, RGB Mystic Light, 3x DisplayPort, HDMI, Type-C, Triple Fan Cooling
- MOBO: MSI MEG X570 UNIFY Motherboard 'ATX, AM4, DDR4, LAN and 802.11AX Wi-Fi, USB 3.2 Gen2, Type-C, M.2, AMD RYZEN 2nd and 3rd Gen'
- COOLER: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4, 250W TDP, CPU cooler

The one I'm not really sure is the case which I have purchased as well but I can cancel since it will arrive next wednesday:

- CASE: be quiet! Pure Base 500 Black, Mid-Tower ATX, 2 preinstalled fans

Is there anything you can recommend in terms of a ATX mid tower that doesn't have clear glass and it dampens sound? also without any lights?

If you see anything too bad please let me know so I can cancel the items.

I'm aware on the GPU side but I haven't purchased anything in years and I think even if a new series come up anytime soon this should last me for a while.

Ah, the only two other things which are missing now are the PSU and the extra HDD (which can wait).

The PSU I wanted arrives next week so I will be looking at alternatives and you are right @thebluebumblebee I probably don't need that much I just want the PSU to be comfortable with the delivering power easily and some future proofing.
 
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Uh. I totally forgot to ask (again I guess, after John Naylor) - what are you planning to do exactly with the 2080S? Because if you're not trying for 4K gaming it's basically a complete total overkill and kind of a waste. You also ordered an RGB part here too (you should be able to disable it).
The DR4 Pro should be more than sufficient for the 3900X. Everything else looks fine.
 

itterbium

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Thank you @Selaya !

That's great, I was hoping I'd have to live with the RGB on the card. Again, not hating it but I'd prefer no light in the build.

I do have a 4K screen, apologies I forgot to mention that. (important detail)

Thank you for pushing me for the 3900x. I've managed to get it at £398.48, not that much over the 3700x.

Do you think that case could work or I should look for something else?
 
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Uh, looking at it you may encounter some airflow/heat dissipation issues; I'm actually not that of an expert when it comes to cases, but at a glance there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it. Worst I can see right now would be a clearance issue with the DR4 Pro cooler - it's one of the most massive air coolers out there, after all.

As for the RGB card, am I right to assume that it was simply the cheapest 2080S offering available? (Shit like that happens sometimes where an RGB part may be the cheapest.) But yeah, generally RGB should be disableable - just check the configuration of your card. You may have to install the RGB software to disable it.
 

itterbium

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Yes, it's the cheapest I could find with good quality according to reviews.
 
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Video Card(s) Sapphire NITRO+ RX 5700 XT
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Do you want a case with sound-dampening material because you don't want to hear your PC? It's been shown that airflow-oriented cases actually end up being quieter than sound-proofed cases. The foam and closed off front panel means fans have to spin faster to keep temps the same compared to if the case had a mesh front and had better access to air. Faster fans means more noise.

While not the best airflow case (because of the dust filter behind the mesh front panel, Fractal's Meshify C is a decent choice: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/fPzkcf/fractal-design-meshify-c-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-ca-mesh-c-bko

I have one and am quite happy with the build quality and featureset. My biggest (and only) gripe is probably the tempered glass mounting mechanism (four thumbscrews through the panel instead of a hinged door or rail system), but that won't be an issue with the non-TG version I linked.
 

itterbium

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Thank you @milewski1015, I did had a look at that one but I still prefer the looks of the be quiet! Worst case scenario I guess I can return it and try another one.

One thing I'm wondering after seeing some reviews is if I should have gone with an intel system, given that the i9 9900K is actually at the same price of the 3900X at around £400 but probably not worth having all these second thoughts.

Review:
(You did mention for single thread Intel is better so I was warned)
 
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Thank you @milewski1015, I did had a look at that one but I still prefer the looks of the be quiet! Worst case scenario I guess I can return it and try another one.

One thing I'm wondering after seeing some reviews is if I should have gone with an intel system, given that the i9 9900K is actually at the same price of the 3900X at around £400 but probably not worth having all these second thoughts.

Review:
(You did mention for single thread Intel is better so I was warned)
The Pure Base 500 does come with better stock fans (2x bequiet! Pure Wings 2 140mm), so even if you have to run them faster, they'll probably still be quieter than the ones in a Meshify C (2x Fractal Dynamic X2 GP-12 120mm). Part of the enjoyment of building your own PC is making it look how you want. While the Meshify C has the potential to be quieter, that's not worth sacrificing the individuality of your build for - if you like the look of the Pure Base 500 better, by all means, go with that.

You mention your primary purpose with this system is coding. I'm not very familiar with programming, but it's clear to see that the 3900X beats out the 9900k (and 10900k for that matter) in GamersNexus's chromium code compile benchmark (21:42 in):

I see you've got a 2070 Super in this build, which would lead me to believe you're playing at greater than 1080p. There, you're going to be GPU bottlenecked, and the CPU isn't going to make a major difference.
 
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