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New Build Plans - Thoughts, Advice, Etc

Bigpapa42

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Hey folks. I'm making plans for my first build and am just seeking thoughts, advice, and so on. There are so many factors to consider and I want to try to put something together that is going to keep me happy for awhile.

The intent is to put together a fairly high end build that will be able to handle the top end games with at least solid performance. Something that won't go out of date too quickly and can be upgraded. The plan is to run dual monitors, so I would be able to game on one while surfing the web or whatever on the other. It will also be connected to the home entertainment system. At this point, I do most of my gaming (except text sims) on the console, but I'd like to be able to do some on the PC. Its just not very effective right now on a laptop, even a pretty decent one.

I have not absolutely settled on anything yet except the case and power supply. I do have a pretty good idea of what I'd like to go with, but I haven't ordered anything beyond those two things... Though I may have if not for the Sandy Bridge board issues.

I have ordered a Cooler Master HAF X and a Kingwin LZ-1000 Lazer 1000-watt power supply. I was hesitant to go with a lesser-known brand power supply, but it was reviewed fairly well and it came as part of a combo with the case. Too good of a deal to pass up, basically.

The rest of the plans look like this:

Intel i5-2500K Sandy Bridge processor
ASUS Sabertooth P67 SATA6b/s USB3.0 ATX motherboard
HIS H69F2G2M Radeon 6950 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 video card
8 GB DDR3 RAM - undecided, but looking at the G.SKILL Ripjaw kits for P67
SSD hard drive for OS
2-3 TB HD storage
Windows 7 64-bit OS
CPU cooler - again, undecided

The monitor set-up will eventually be dual 23" widescreens, but just a sad 19" to start.

I am still toying with the possibility of going with a Radeon 6870 video card, and possibly adding a second in Crossfire when I get the dual monitors. Or even using the 6870 and going with an AMD Phenom II x4 955 or 965 with a similar level of board to the P67, but while this would save some dollars off the top, it would also sacrifice some performance, at least based on the bench tests I've looked at.

Any suggestions, tips, and so on is appreciated. Thanks!
 

BinaryMage

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Well, that won't have any problem running games. Depending on if you're going to use the computer for anything other than gaming/web browsing, you might want to get a i7 2600K instead of the i5 2500K, but if the only resource intensive thing you're doing is gaming, it would be overkill.
Upgradability wise, that seems a mixed bag. GPU upgrades wouldn't be a problem, but with LGA2011 slated to come out soon (Q3 2011), CPU upgradability won't be so strong.
If you want an AMD processor, I'd go for a Phenom X6 BE instead of the X4. It'll still be cheaper, and will perform better than the X4, along with having an unlocked multiplier.
 

Bigpapa42

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Thanks. I actually did consider the i7-2600K... but it seemed like too much overkill. I don't do much with graphics at this point - a bit of tooling around with Photoshop and that's about it. 3D rendering is a cool idea, but I don't know that I would ever do much. For the price difference, it just doesn't seem like I'd be likely to make it worthwhile.
 
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Really, it would be wise to just wait for Bulldozer to launch being this close and see where it lands. Never know, it might be able to kick Intel pricing to the curb and get it to more sane levels. Bulldozer wouldn't even need to beat Intel, just get close like it seems most are thinking it should.
 

BinaryMage

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Yeah, I tend to agree that now is not a great time to get a new CPU that will most likely be outdated and not upgradable in approximately 6 months. However, if you need a new computer, you need a new computer...
How important is it to you to have this now, instead of in 6 months or so when Bulldozer comes out?
 

Bigpapa42

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Case Cooler Master HAF X
Really, it would be wise to just wait for Bulldozer to launch being this close and see where it lands. Never know, it might be able to kick Intel pricing to the curb and get it to more sane levels. Bulldozer wouldn't even need to beat Intel, just get close like it seems most are thinking it should.

Yeah, I tend to agree that now is not a great time to get a new CPU that will most likely be outdated and not upgradable in approximately 6 months. However, if you need a new computer, you need a new computer...
How important is it to you to have this now, instead of in 6 months or so when Bulldozer comes out?

I hadn't really thought about it like that, to be honest. I've always looked at PCs as something where there will always be something just over the horizon. I had read a little about Bulldozer but not that much, so I'm really not sure what to expect...

I don't need it immediately, in a basic sense. I still have a laptop for web surfing and some gaming. There are no PC games that I'm dying to play this moment. I just tend to be impatient when I get stuck on an idea like this one.... :)

If I'm understanding, Bulldozer will be the new AMD chip to be on level with the Intel Sandy Bridge, correct? So if I went the Intel direction, the new LGA 1155 socket should be around for awhile? In that case, the main advantage to waiting would be dropping prices? Or is the Sandy Bridge chip architecture likely to become outdated that quickly as well?
 
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Isnt the upcoming 2011 socket supposed to replace the current 1366 socket? If so woudlnt that mean it would be more of an enthusiast type setup? (tri SLI and what have you)
 

BinaryMage

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I was under the impression that Sandy Bridge EX, Ivy Bridge, and the subsequent Intel chips were going to be LGA2011, but that could be incorrect.

EDIT: I know the current Sandy Bridge chips are not LGA 2011. I was talking about the supposed next ones in Q3 2011.
 
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Sandy bridge is 1155 not sure about Ivy Bridge. SB is 32nm and Ivy is 22nm so I would assume it would have a new socket. Wikipedia states that Ivy will be showcased this year in June but we may not see them until 2012 which tells me that it wont be the socket 2011 chips that are due out in a few months.

Link
 

Bigpapa42

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Case Cooler Master HAF X
Sandy bridge is 1155 not sure about Ivy Bridge. SB is 32nm and Ivy is 22nm so I would assume it would have a new socket. Wikipedia states that Ivy will be showcased this year in June but we may not see them until 2012 which tells me that it wont be the socket 2011 chips that are due out in a few months.

Link

So if I'm reading this right, Ivy Bridge should have a performance advantage over Sandy Bridge and will be out sometime between the later half of 2011 and early 2012? So waiting a few months could see the AMD Bulldozer push the Intel prices down, but mean that the Ivy Bridge would be closer and possibly worth waiting for...

I am a bit concerned about the timing, but at this point, will probably still go forward. If I did need to upgrade the CPU in 2-3 years, it would then mean a new motherboard, RAM, etc... But its still doable, I guess.

Regarding the video card, if I went with the components as listed except the went with a Radeon 6870 instead... how much of a drop would I be looking at? Would I be bottle-necking the system in that regard? The 6950 2GB would really help with dual monitors, but since I won't be using that set up off the start, I was considering going with the lesser (and cheaper) card off the start and looking to possibly add a second 6870 around the time I double the monitors.... Good plan or bad?
 

BinaryMage

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Probably depends when you are switching to two monitors, cost wise, though 2 6870's will probably be more powerful than a single 6950.
 

Bigpapa42

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Probably depends when you are switching to two monitors, cost wise, though 2 6870's will probably be more powerful than a single 6950.

Thanks.

I think I may have just had my decision made for me... I double-checked the power supply that's already bought and it only has 3 6-pin PCI-Express connectors. It seems like all the 6870s need two, so setting two cards up in Crossfire would need 4. I could re-sell the PSU and get a Crossfire-ready one, which is what I intended to do before stumbling onto the deal for the case and supply... but I'll probably just go with the one 6950 2GB card for now. The price difference isn't that huge. If I decide to add a second card down the road, I can worry about the power supply then.
 
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So if I'm reading this right, Ivy Bridge should have a performance advantage over Sandy Bridge and will be out sometime between the later half of 2011 and early 2012? So waiting a few months could see the AMD Bulldozer push the Intel prices down, but mean that the Ivy Bridge would be closer and possibly worth waiting for...

I am a bit concerned about the timing, but at this point, will probably still go forward. If I did need to upgrade the CPU in 2-3 years, it would then mean a new motherboard, RAM, etc... But its still doable, I guess.

Regarding the video card, if I went with the components as listed except the went with a Radeon 6870 instead... how much of a drop would I be looking at? Would I be bottle-necking the system in that regard? The 6950 2GB would really help with dual monitors, but since I won't be using that set up off the start, I was considering going with the lesser (and cheaper) card off the start and looking to possibly add a second 6870 around the time I double the monitors.... Good plan or bad?
Ivy Bridge will have a 20% performance increase over that of Sandy Bridge. The socket to rivial the upcoming AMD Bulldozer will be socket 2011 which is slated for around June.

Probably depends when you are switching to two monitors, cost wise, though 2 6870's will probably be more powerful than a single 6950.

You forget too, that if you buy a 6950, you can unlock it very easily to a 6970.
 

Bigpapa42

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Ivy Bridge will have a 20% performance increase over that of Sandy Bridge. The socket to rivial the upcoming AMD Bulldozer will be socket 2011 which is slated for around June.

You forget too, that if you buy a 6950, you can unlock it very easily to a 6970.

If the Ivy Bridge isn't likely to be out in 2011, I'm a lot more comfortable doing things now. Six months would be tough to wait out... but a whole year would be a true challenge. Being limited in how much I could upgrade without changing out the motherboard is a concern... but not a deal-breaker.

I was actually reading up on flashing the BIOS of the 6950. The instructions here on the site are great. I don't know if I'll try it right off the bat, but its a nice option.
 

BinaryMage

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Yeah, that's true. Just make sure you get a 6950 that can be unlocked. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Ivy_Bridge
The Ivy Bridge processors may come out this year or next, but I think you're okay with this setup, especially for gaming, for which videocards matter the most.
 
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2011 is what 1366 is now. IMO Ivy bridge is what 1156/1155 is now.
 

Bigpapa42

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Yeah, that's true. Just make sure you get a 6950 that can be unlocked. :)

Is there any way to know which ones can and which ones can't? Or is simply down to the individual card yet get?
 

BinaryMage

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Bigpapa42

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Overlooked the chart when I looked over the article earlier. Thanks! The HIS card is the one I've been eying and it looks like its worked every time so far.

Three more questions right now...

-is it worth going from 1333 MHz RAM to 1600?

-given the size and cooling of the HAF X case, is adding a CPU cooler necessary if I'm not toying with overclocking off the start?

-the plan is to have the SSD for the OS and primary games, and I would likely partition it into two. Having 2 or even 3 1TB Samsung drives for media, backup and such, is a ton of space. If I partitioned those down into about about 6-7 drives, I would end up with something like 14 assigned hard drives or more. Would something like that causes any issues with Windows?

Thanks again for all the help.
 

BinaryMage

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1333Mhz RAM to 1600MHz? Depends on prices. Probably a speed bump, but not huge.

The Intel stock cooler coming with your processor is just fine if you aren't overclocking, but I would recommend that you get a better cooler and overclock your processor; that i5 overclocks well.

Well, I don't exactly understand why you need separate partitions (can't you just use folders), but I don't think Windows would have an issue with it. Not sure though.

And no problem with the help - glad to be of service. :)
 

Bigpapa42

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I will definitely be playing with overclocking. Its not something I've done before, so I won't be messing with it right from the start. I just figure that if I wait and add a cooler later when it becomes necessary due to overclocking, it just saves a bit off the build.

The partitions is just a preferred way to organize things. For some reason, I just find it cleaner than using folders.
 

BinaryMage

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Alright. Don't see any problem with that. Enjoy your new computer! :)
 
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I hadn't really thought about it like that, to be honest. I've always looked at PCs as something where there will always be something just over the horizon. I had read a little about Bulldozer but not that much, so I'm really not sure what to expect...

I don't need it immediately, in a basic sense. I still have a laptop for web surfing and some gaming. There are no PC games that I'm dying to play this moment. I just tend to be impatient when I get stuck on an idea like this one.... :)

If I'm understanding, Bulldozer will be the new AMD chip to be on level with the Intel Sandy Bridge, correct? So if I went the Intel direction, the new LGA 1155 socket should be around for awhile? In that case, the main advantage to waiting would be dropping prices? Or is the Sandy Bridge chip architecture likely to become outdated that quickly as well?

Ivy Bridge should be on the same 1155 socket, but after that who knows and I wouldn't bet on the Ivy Bridge successor to be 1155. Also that 20% increase Intel always says comes with every new shrink or architecture change is very, very general. I have yet to see anyone get 20% improvement in games with Sandy Bridge over Lynnfield.

Bulldozer should be no slower then Sandy Bridge so I wouldn't suspect Ivy Bridge being much faster. No to mention that the upgrade path from AM3+ to its replacement will have some kind of crossover compatibility (like how current AM3 cpus can work in AM2+ board). Also I know Llano will support 1866Mhz ram speeds so I expect Bulldozer to do the same.

I've also read some recent rumors that Llano is suppose to show up at Computex so I'm expecting Bulldozer between then and now.
 

Bigpapa42

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Waiting for the ASUS board I want to get re-released is driving me nuts... Yesterday, I started to think about going with an AMD processor, despite the performance drop... but when I looked on Newegg, the board I would want for that was sold out anyway... Guess I'll just wait it out...

I am starting to reconsider getting a solid state drive. The problem I'm having is basically size to value. To be able to put the operating system, some primary programs, and a few games on there, the drive would need to be at least 100GB. I'm not finding any 100-120GB SSDs for under $200, and many are around $250. I realize the third generation SSDs are just coming out, so prices will continue to drop over time. But that doesn't help so much at the moment. I can get a 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0 drive for about $50, and then 2-3 of the Samsung 1TB drives for around $50 apiece as well. That's 3.5TB for the same as the 100GB SSD... I like the positives of the SSDs - less heat, lower power consumption, and faster speeds - but I'm just not sure if the primary positive (the faster access speed) is going to be worth that extra amount. Just curious on people's opinions on which would be the better direction.

Also, if SSDs do continue to drop in price and/or I found one at the right price later... how painful would be it to switch the OS to one installed later as the boot drive?
 
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Dont put games on the SSD. MLC SSD drives are limited to 10,000 write cycles and after which it begins to deteriorate. The less write cycles the better and longer lasting performance you will have. If you get an ssd you will want to setup the page file on a hard drive as well.

SSD drives are really only good for putting the OS on it for a very fast boot time and just a few programs. That is it. You would install the OS on the SSD just like you would a hard drive.
 
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