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New Laptop advice

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#1
Hi all!

So my 2014 HP Envy15 laptop just died last year (5 year warranty) and after 3 months of consecutive repairs (first was MB, second it didn't charge, third didn't detect HDD) they give up and tell me to chose a new laptop. So I was searching for a new laptop and found out that they are already RTX powered laptops and it got me thinking if I could get a laptop that could also replace my gaming rig (I don't game as much as I did when I was single and childless :p, maybe 2 to 3 hours a week).
My current rig is a 3570K with 2xGTX670 and was thinking about getting a Lenovo y740 17-inch with RTX 2060.
What do you guys think?
 
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#2
I think you will soon be plagued with heat and thermal throttling. They can pack the horsepower of a gaming PC into the tiny case of a notebook, but not the cooling. And considering even standard mid and full tower cases are challenged to keep the innards cool during heavy play, it is no wonder notebook cases are.

To make maters worse, notebook makers make it nearly impossible for the normal user to open up a notebook for thorough cleaning. So while things will likely work great when new, after awhile and heat-trapping dust gets packed into the inaccessible cracks and crannies, I bet heat issues will arise - at least when you are tasking the system. Of course, I could be wrong - but notebooks inherently have poor cooling. That's just a fact - at lease for those with thin designs as that Lenovo is.

Slightly off topic but I find it interesting where you said they told you to choose a new laptop. Who's "they"? I ask because the failing notebook is an HP. It would not be typical HP is saying you can pick a different brand.
 
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#3
Who's "they"? I ask because the failing notebook is an HP. It would not be typical HP is saying you can pick a different brand.
HP only gives 2 year warranty here, I bought extra warranty from the reseller.
 
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#4
but notebooks inherently have poor cooling. That's just a fact - at lease for those with thin designs as that Lenovo is
Yes they do. TPU has had a lot of throttlestop questions and issues regarding heat and throttling and ways to overcome it especially on the Lenovo's.

If you were going to look at a gaming laptop, I would look at the main players and not a thin and light that will have issues. ASUS and Acer have a few models that would fit the bill and you would not have as many heat/throttling issues. STAY AWAY from the U processors too. You want an HQ not U. U is low power or Ultra Low power which will add to your gaming woes. Definitely compare the new mobile RTX cards because they are all clocked differently. You may buy a rtx2060 and have it perform the same as a 1050.

In a nutshell if you are wanting to replace your older gaming desktop with a gaming laptop go for a real gaming laptop(ASUS, Acer, Alienware, etc...), if you are wanting a thin and light do not, I repeat DO NOT, expect the experience to be great and be prepared for throttling and heat issues while gaming.
 
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#5
imo, if you can afford it, then there is nothing wrong..
 
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#6
Personally, I couldn't recommend a gaming laptop, as @Bill_Bright has said, they pack cut down desktop hardware in the laptop and then the cooling is still an issue.

I'm like yourself, children and a busy life so I don't get much game time (my 1080 Ti's hate me for me I think :() but I would recommend just a basic laptop that you could do all your browsing on and such, but then when you do get those magical moments, game on a proper desktop :) Just my thoughts and opinions tho :)
 
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#7
HP only gives 2 year warranty here, I bought extra warranty from the reseller.
I normally don't recommend extended warranties but clearly in your case, it paid off. :)
 
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#8
Despite the cooling and thermal solution goes on laptop these days, they have definitely come along way from super bulky to a more comfortable level to carry and use as laptop.
The cooling solution on Lenovo Legion series are quite good really and the new 700 series cooling seems a lot better than their previous generation.
Gaming "comfortably" on a laptop still requires you to do some tweaks though like changing thermal paste, undervolting the CPU and running the fans at 100% to keep the temperature at a "comfortable" level and reduce the amount of thermal throttling.
Other techniques you can try is capping the framerate to match the laptop display refresh rate as it will reduce the work load on the CPU&GPU.
I have a MSI GF63-8RD which replaced my Lenovo Legion Y720 which the GPU failed on me early(Error 43 windows), but the MSI is a "thin and light" gaming laptop with single fan cooling, despite the drawback I have been able to run games in medium-high settings on DMC5&RE2 remake with game capped at 60fps for 4-5hours straight perfectly fine with me doing the tweaks mentioned above(haven't changed thermal paste yet) and managed to keep the CPU&GPU temps between 70-75C.

My recommendation for laptop would be if flexible budget:
Alienware 51
Dell G3-G7
Acer Predator Helios
Asus Zephyrus
Lenovo Legion 700s 2019
Clevo Laptop
 
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#9
Despite the cooling and thermal solution goes on laptop these days, they have definitely come along way from super bulky to a more comfortable level to carry and use as laptop.
Right - if you define "use as laptop" in the traditional way. Laptops were originally designed as "mobile" devices for work projects to be used by business road warriors and people who need to do work out in the field. And they are great for that. As they are for school projects that involve writing papers, working with spreadsheets, emails, updating Facebook, and maybe show a PowerPoint presentation.

The idea a laptop could ever be a "desktop replacement" or even a "gaming machine" is pure marketing hype. As long as users understand that, as well as the limitations small cases impose, then I guess that is fine. For me, I will stick with my full size keyboard and mouse, two 24" monitors, surround sound speakers and my "cool and quiet" tower case and leave my notebook for checking my emails and surfing the internet when I am on the road.
 
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#10
Right - if you define "use as laptop" in the traditional way. Laptops were originally designed as "mobile" devices for work projects to be used by business road warriors and people who need to do work out in the field. And they are great for that. As they are for school projects that involve writing papers, working with spreadsheets, emails, updating Facebook, and maybe show a PowerPoint presentation.

The idea a laptop could ever be a "desktop replacement" or even a "gaming machine" is pure marketing hype. As long as users understand that, as well as the limitations small cases impose, then I guess that is fine. For me, I will stick with my full size keyboard and mouse, two 24" monitors, surround sound speakers and my "cool and quiet" tower case and leave my notebook for checking my emails and surfing the internet when I am on the road.
It depends on use cases I suppose when defining a "desktop replacement" and understand the cons still but laptop are catching up as a good replacement in many areas now, I use a macbook pro for work as a Software developer(XCode is main reason why I have a macbook) and I do have to take it around the office to demonstrate the program. Gaming machine then yes I 100% agree a laptop can't replace desktop and 95% people understand that.
The MSI laptop was bought so I can play while i'm away from home for every few hours or play old games but my main machine is still my PC.
 
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#11
I don't know anything about Lenovo but a 2060 is plenty for 1080p gaming.

Right - if you define "use as laptop" in the traditional way. Laptops were originally designed as "mobile" devices for work projects to be used by business road warriors and people who need to do work out in the field. And they are great for that. As they are for school projects that involve writing papers, working with spreadsheets, emails, updating Facebook, and maybe show a PowerPoint presentation.

The idea a laptop could ever be a "desktop replacement" or even a "gaming machine" is pure marketing hype. As long as users understand that, as well as the limitations small cases impose, then I guess that is fine. For me, I will stick with my full size keyboard and mouse, two 24" monitors, surround sound speakers and my "cool and quiet" tower case and leave my notebook for checking my emails and surfing the internet when I am on the road.
Sometimes what people think of as a mobile replacement for a gaming desktop doesn't make sense to me. Here's an example from 1 1/2 years ago. An ASUS ROG GX800VH. Had a i7-7820HK CPU and two GTX 1080s in SLI and........watercooled. It required 2 power supplies plugged in for full use. All for only $6,000. :eek: The writing was already on the wall that SLI support was being dropped by Developers as well.

 
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#13
I don't know anything about Lenovo but a 2060 is plenty for 1080p gaming.



Sometimes what people think of as a mobile replacement for a gaming desktop doesn't make sense to me. Here's an example from 1 1/2 years ago. An ASUS ROG GX800VH. Had a i7-7820HK CPU and two GTX 1080s in SLI and........watercooled. It required 2 power supplies plugged in for full use. All for only $6,000. :eek: The writing was already on the wall that SLI support was being dropped by Developers as well.

The new Alienware area51m requires 2 power adapters aswell.
 
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#14
but laptop are catching up as a good replacement in many areas now
I just cannot agree with this for one main reason. If a desktop cannot support your needs, you can easily upgrade so it can - whether that means adding more drives, RAM, different graphics, or even replace all the guts. And being a good gaming machine is a function of a desktop. So IMO, you cannot say a notebook can be a good desktop replacement and at the same time agree they don't make good gaming machines.
Sometimes what people think of as a mobile replacement for a gaming desktop doesn't make sense to me. Here's an example from 1 1/2 years ago. An ASUS ROG GX800VH. Had a i7-7820HK CPU and two GTX 1080s in SLI and........watercooled. It required 2 power supplies plugged in for full use. All for only $6,000.
I didn't understand that either - and it weighed close to 13lbs - probably more when in a carrying case with other accessories (real mouse, for example). It reminded me of the old Osborne computer that was marketed as portable but many called it "luggable" because it was so heavy.
That is a 15" laptop not a 17". If you want a 17" or better you need to find a different model.
A quick bit of homework with Google shows the Y740 comes in several versions, including the Y740 17" model.
 
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#15
One important question- is there a price limit for the replacement? What are the terms and conditions of the replacement?
 
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#16
I just cannot agree with this for one main reason. If a desktop cannot support your needs, you can easily upgrade so it can - whether that means adding more drives, RAM, different graphics, or even replace all the guts. And being a good gaming machine is a function of a desktop. So IMO, you cannot say a notebook can be a good desktop replacement and at the same time agree they don't make good gaming machines.
Im going by people that only use their machine for 3-5 years and then replace/upgrade it. A decent laptop would also last good 3-5 years before deciding a replacement. Obviously a laptop replacement will cost more than pc depending on use case, a basic laptop could easily cost less or same as a desktop replacement.
To further extend my comment on laptop being a dedicated gaming machine, I meant that it can if people lower their expectations and understand thT it will have its flaws.
 
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#17
I meant that it can if people lower their expectations
Right - which means if willing to compromise, your smart phone could be a desktop replacement. To me, if such compromises are needed, it is not really a "replacement."

As far as replacing, you can replace a desktop without having to replace the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers. So not sure your cost comparison is valid either.
 
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#18
While I think replacing a 3570k and 670s with a laptop is entirely possible (in fact quite easy) from a performance standpoint, I've come to dislike playing games on laptops over the years...

Most cheaper laptops have bad keyboards and even the more expensive (gaming) ones are often mediocre so you need to haul around a keyboard if you are serious about playing games... Even 17 inch laptops are kinda small in terms of screen size, especially considering you cannot really use them closer than arms length, and add a bit if you are using an external keyboard, so you need to plug it into a screen anyway...

At that point I think you might as well just throw in the towel with the laptop and use a desktop for playing games and a laptop for carrying around and doing work, especially since most gaming laptops are absolutely rubbish at productivity aside from mobile workstation applications.

Basically unless you are planning on moving around a lot, and want to be able to play games wherever, and can deal with the less than stellar gaming experience, so basically you REALLY REALLY want to have a gaming laptop rather than a gaming desktop, you are better off with a thin and light laptop for productivity and a desktop for gaming.
 
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#19
Right - which means if willing to compromise, your smart phone could be a desktop replacement. To me, if such compromises are needed, it is not really a "replacement."

As far as replacing, you can replace a desktop without having to replace the monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers. So not sure your cost comparison is valid either.
I've read a fair amount of people now dont really use a computer at all now and just use their phones. Even Samsung has that silly Samsung dex docking Station if people wanted to use their phone as some sort of work machine.

A replacement laptop would come with screen, speaker, keyboard, touch pad and even windows licence key which a lot of cheap laptop can cost less or same amount as a cheap desktop bundle or just standalone tower which some may not come with os and lot of our custom pc require buying a os while a laptop comes preinstalled already which is a saving.
If you don't travel a lot then like gorbz state, get a desktop instead or build one.
We could debate this all day and not come to a reasonable agreement mate, it's your opinion and my opinion and your opinion is valid as I do agree with you and mine is just based on people needs in general.

Back on topic for OP the laptops I've recommend at top would be good replacement for the HP in my opinion.
 
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#20
A quick bit of homework with Google shows the Y740 comes in several versions, including the Y740 17" model.
Oh, my bad. Didn't see that. Sorry, shutting up... :laugh:
EDIT; That link goes to the UK Lenovo store. Is the OP from the UK?
If they're stateside; this might be a better link;
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptop...eries/Lenovo-Legion-Y740-17ICHg/p/88GMY701062

I've got to say, looking at the specs and a few reviews(see below), I think this model of gaming laptop would be a good purchase. Granted, the review is for the RTX2080 version whereas the model with the 2060 or 2070 would be better priced. As reviewed, thermal throttling wasn't a problem and the system performed well.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenov...0H-RTX-2080-Max-Q-Laptop-Review.410791.0.html
 
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#21
The same rules that apply to a desktop apply to a desktop ... avoid the big box retail outlets and build your own ... or have someone custom build it for you. This is the roiute we have taken and , no we have never experienced thermal throttling and have no issue even running Furmark.

My current lappie was bought in 2012. However, you do have to do maintenance. Make sure to remove the back over and blow out the cat hair, cookie crumbs and other debris that have been sucked into your machine. We do this every 3 to 6 months and there's not much to it ... sometimes ypu get hair stuck in thr fans that escapes the air compressor; easily grabbed witha tweezer or paperclip. One major issue with the laptops you find available in store shelves is that thecooling systems seem to be designed for the 'base model' ... when you get the same laptop but with the option of a bigger CPU or GPU, the cooling systems are usually not up to the task. When you buy a custom loop, you start with a base chassis for which the cooling is designed to handle. In past years there were multiple CPU / GPU options but these have since become more limited. Now, while there are stiull CPU options, GPU options are rare.

One other falacy you will have to deal with is "ohh ... that brand is known for making lappies with poor cooling ... use this brands instead". The reality often is neither of those companies actually make a laptop.... and the ironic part is more often than not, all of them are made by the same OEM on the same production lines, using the same parts and same labor. The logo and styling will usually be the only major differences. MSI is the only brand that makes their own laptops.

Quanta makes (among others) HP, Lenovo, Apple, Acer, Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Fujitsu and NEC laptops
Compal makes (among others) Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and HP/Compaq laptops
Wistron makes Dell, Acer, Lenovo and HP laptops
Inventec makes Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo laptops
Pegatron sells to Asus, Toshiba, Apple, Dell and Acer laptops
Foxconn smakes Asus, Dell, HP and Apple laptops
Flextronics makes HP laptops

When asking about desktop PSUs, you won't find a forum thread where someone doesn't point out the importance of who the OEM is ... but for some reason, the subject of OEM is rarely brought up for lappies. . MSI is the only brand that makes their own laptops. Remeber that light and thin goals are dirrectly in conflict with cooling and battery life. You can not get one without sacrificing the other. There are other rules of thumb to follow some of which where the "old wisdom" is no longer true ... one of these oldies is that laptop GPUs are greatly different in performance than those same models in lappies... that is no longer the case as you can see in the rankings here. When you arrive on the page go to the dropdown that says "Show only NoteBook GPus" and select Show "Desktop and Notebook GPUs" and then hit the RESTRICT button

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

The desktop 2080 for example is ranked 3rd and the laptop model 5th
The desktop 2070 is ranked 12th and the laptop model 14th
The desktop 2060 is ranked 18th and the laptop model 20th

No, on the custom built laptops, there is no need to remove and replace thermal paste ... you have the option of using a selction of thermal pastes when you have them built ... as well as screen option,s CPU options, 0 pixel warrantees, etc. We have never needed to undervolt and nor run the fans at 100% ... I have had several models that have a hot key which you can use to toggle 100% fan speed on and off ... my current model is missing this feature.

Back in the day, the IBM A20p series was long recognized as a desktop replacement. We use our laptops as desktop replacements in the field on conctruction projects and the ability to use them in the field as desktop replacements is critical. When PC Magazines printed on paper was still a thing, the mags always had the A20p on the cover, As a result the brand dominated the market even tho that model sold only in small quantities due to the extreme price ($5 - 6k). We tried a Toshiba after that which was deficient, and since then every laptop used here has been custom built..... my oldest son plays competitively and he took one to college with him. When I say desktop replacement for "back then" ... not it was not as fast as the similarly equipped desktop but it was well more than serviceable for both workstation CAD usage and gaming. Over time, as you can see in the GPU rankings, the performance gap is far less than it was then. In gaming some games will vary by as uch as 20% ...others are almost indistinguishable.....

Hitman 2 Ultra @ 1080p (2060 desktop) - 79.9 fps
Hitman 2 Ultra @ 1080p (2060 laptop) - 78.4

Monster Hunter High @ 1080p (2060 desktop) - 86.0 fps
Monster Hunter @ 1080p (2060 laptop) - 70.2

I past years, you could update most any part ... RAM and storage are things I have done .... wireless / bluetooth also. I have replaced a dead fan that I killed when using the air compressor to blow out dust after I forgot to hold down with finger to keep it from over spinning. GPU upgrades now are rare, CPU replacements somewhat less so. My laptop costs a lot less than my desktop ... a typical gaming monitor now costs about 50% of a laptop. Even on lappies, 144 hz, 4k and IPS options are available.

Clevo N870RP6

17.3" Full HD (1920 x 1080) 144 Hz Wide View Angle 72% NTSC Matte
(option for Guaranteed no dead or partially-lit pixels for first 30 / 90 days of purchasing are available as we;l as screen calibration)

8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-8750H (2.2 GHz up to 4.10 GHz), 9MB Smart Cache

NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 1060 GPU with 6GB GDDR5
Options for IC Diamond and Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut available)

5 OS Options available ... Win 10 Home or Pro, w/ or w/o media and "No OS"

16GB Dual Channel DDR4 2666 MHz (PC4-21300) (2 x 8GB)
1 x 16 GB is standard, the 2 x 8 GB was a $10 option

Samsung® 860 EVO™ M.2 250GB SSD - (OS DRIVE)
WD Blue as standard, Samsung Evo was $25 option ... options available up to 2 TB SSDs

Seagate® FireCuda™ Gaming SSHD 2TB SATA 6.0Gb/s
1 TB HD is standard, 2TB FireCuda was $110 option

Intel® Dual Band Ultra Wireless - AC 9560 M.2 + Bluetooth® 5

Full Range AC-in 100~240V, 50~60Hz, 180W AC autoswitch Adapter

Removable 6 cells Smart Lithium-Ion battery pack 62WH

List price $1,172.73

The list price is cash which is what I am charged when I pay by business check. IIRC, you can pay by personal check to but may have to wait until the check clears before it ships. Also have opo remeber that Clevo distributors are not permitted to advertise below a stipulated price floor ... but once you get on the phone, you can negotiate discounts ... we typical wind up between $50 and $150 off depending on price.

For me, whether I use the desktop or laptop is not a matter of performance but experience. Im glad smartphones were mentioned as it demonstrates my point.

My 1st smartphone, I was editing reports, spreadsheets answering emails, even editing CAD files etc. i hotel lobbies and the phone's performance was up to the task... problem was I wasn't. Do I want to be / am productive thumb typing on teeny screen as opposed to a 17" lappie with full size KB sitting in my room ? Answer to rhetorical question a big no.

Ooooh the new Star Wars movie is now available for streaming, Do i want to watch on my teeny phone screen w/ its $9 sound subsystem ? Do I wanna watch it on my 17" lappie w. small screen and $35 sound system and crappy speakers ? do I want to watch on my desktop 27" screen and 500 watt sound system ... or do I wanna watch on the 48" screen and audiophile soundsystems ? Is anyone wondering as to my choice ?

When gaming, I am sitting at my desktop not because of CPU / GPU performance but because of because 144 Hz screen, ULMB, shake the floor sound system that simply isn't available on the lappie ... tho, when stuck in a hotel when traveling on business, it's way more than adequate.
 
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System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
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Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
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Case Fractal Design Define R4
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Mouse Microsoft Wireless 5000
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Software W10 Pro 64-bit
#22
I've read a fair amount of people now dont really use a computer at all now and just use their phones.
More and more users, especially the younger generations (boomer here) moving to handhelds is a big reason for the decline in PCs sales over the past several years. In fact, it is "gaming PC" sales that is keeping the slide from happening too quickly. PCs will be present in businesses and schools for a long time, but it seems less and less in homes.

Me? I've said it before but will say it gain. Before I move my computing tasks to my smart phone, they are going to have to pry my full sized keyboard, mouse, surround sound speakers and two 24" monitors from my dead hands.
 
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#23
Me? I've said it before but will say it gain. Before I move my computing tasks to my smart phone, they are going to have to pry my full sized keyboard, mouse, surround sound speakers and two 24" monitors from my dead hands.
Agreed. I'm not using the internet on a small fricken screen and with no physical KB. Give me a phablet with a 6" screen with a slide-away keyboard and I'll use mobile internet. Not until then.
 
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Processor i3570k @4.5
Motherboard Asus Maximus Gene V
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Keyboard Steelseries Apex
#24
Thanks for all the replies guys :)
This helping community, the unbiased reviews and the tech news are the reason I came here almost everyday for almost 10 years :lovetpu:

Back to the topic, @Bill_Bright I'm with you, I know a gaming laptop could never replace a good desktop rig - hell, I usually advise ppl against buying gaming laptops, generally are overpriced for the performance - for the price of the lenovo I could upgrade my rig with high-end stuff and maybe even put a custom loop in it.
Initially I was searching for a laptop that could replace the Envy (i7-4xxx, 12gb ram) but with modern hardware and also a TB3 port (so I could connect a eGPU in the future), I soon found out that for a few bucks more I could get a GTX powered laptop (that escalated pretty quickly - few bucks more gtx1060, a few more 1070, a few more RTX...).
My reasoning for thinking in a gaming laptop is that I really need a productivity laptop for when I'm on the road, my desktop rig is getting old and sometimes is off for weeks, don't have many time at home for playing, probably have more when on the road. I said replace my desktop and not upgrade it because I was looking for a laptop that could give me equal or better performance than I have on the i5+2xgtx670. At home I'll still be using my keyboard, mouse and 144hz screen (when I have time :p)
My doubts about the lenovo (or other equivalent) are: Will it have better performance than I have today? Isn't a 17 inch laptop too big or too heavy?
The reason I'm inclined for the lenovo (besides specs) is that the design is not as aggressive as other brands.

I normally don't recommend extended warranties but clearly in your case, it paid off. :)
I usually don't care about it either, but when I bought the Envy they gave me 20% discount as credit so I ended buying the extended warranty at no cost. Glad I did it. :)

imo, if you can afford it, then there is nothing wrong..
That used to be the case before my kid, now we have to think twice :p

One important question- is there a price limit for the replacement? What are the terms and conditions of the replacement?
I have to buy the new laptop from them and can be of equal or higher price of the credit.

... Clevo N870RP6 ...
Thanks for all the inputs. I never heard of that brand and I looks like they have someone representing them in my country. Unfortunately , I have to buy from the store where I have the Envy credit.
 
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System Name 10 years old laptop
Processor first gen i3, 2++ghz
Motherboard some motherboard
Cooling the fan
Memory about 4gb
Video Card(s) integrated one
Storage 120gb ssd, finally!
Display(s) 14 inch one
Case with zip ties and duct tape
Audio Device(s) yes it has
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Mouse a touchpad
Keyboard a fake one
Software 2018 ltsc
Benchmark Scores what's the point?
#25
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