1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

New pc build (what should i get and go for?)

Discussion in 'System Builder's Advice' started by Pikem4n, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Pikem4n

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    37 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hello folks


    After years of wanting to build a dedicated pc I originally bought a case 2 years back in hope of starting it then but i never got around to it, anyway i've finally got myself a secondhand (but working) evga 680i mobo,along with a intel c2d cpu and a heatsink fan,all for 70 quid as a basis to build from.

    But the problem is i am a bit like a kid in a sweet shop with so many sweets to choose from, my basic needs for the new pc will be gaming and webcasting with view in the future to maybe add a tv tuner to record HD and hooking it all up to a either new lcd monitor or hdtv, my budget now isn't too great it's going to be between 200-300 pounds.

    I am thinking about getting a 650W Corsair CMPSU-650TX psu, but apart from that i don't know what exactly to get so can anyone please give me any pointers to what i should really go for?

    Regards from Pike
     
  2. KingPing

    KingPing

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    847 (0.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    286
    Location:
    Argentina (South America)
    Are you going to use those parts?, if so, then

    case - Ok
    CPU - Ok Model?
    Mobo - Ok

    You need RAM, Video card, PSU ( the corsair one is Ok, but maybe a 450w, 500w, 550w woulb be cheaper), and a monitor

    If you are going to use a C2D cpu, then i recommend a ATI 5770, buy 4gb of ram, nothing to fancy (DDR2 800 will be fine)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  3. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068
    That wasnt a smart thing to do, I know it’s cheap but it’s on a dead motherboard socket so the higher end processors are at the end of their life and what's left is rare and overpriced and hence making future upgrades might be difficult. £300 would get you a nice AMD Athlon II X3/X4 on an AM3 socket with DDR3 opposed to DDR2.


    For gaming, the cheapest and fastest video cards that you can buy without bottlenecking a core 2 Duo is the ATI 5750 1GB and Nvidia GTS 250 1GB, and although these cards are powerful but Iam not sure its enough to run new games 1080p if that's your intention, maybe at 1680x1050. All you need now is some decent branded DDR2 memory and a decently branded PSU and you're set to go.

    Point of View GTS250 1GB DDR3 DVI VGA HDMI Out PCI...
    PowerColor HD 5750 1GB GDDR5, DVI VGA HDMI PCI-E.....
     
  4. KingPing

    KingPing

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    847 (0.32/day)
    Thanks Received:
    286
    Location:
    Argentina (South America)
    I use a 5770 with a 1080p HDTV (the GTS 250 is also Ok, but i don't own one so i don't know for sure) and it can run most games today but not all of them maxed out: DIRT2 run at 60fps with some graphics options in medium and some in high and no AA, GTA4 mixed settings from ultra to low (because of cpu not the vga), BATMAN AA runs maxed out, METRO 2033 runs at 30fps - 40fps in high in dx9, COD 4 runs maxed out, the same for WaW and MW2, BATTLEFIELD BAD COMPANY 2 runs ok with high settings but no AA. The CPU i use is a C2D e8400 OCed to 3.6Ghz and some games are still bottlenecked by the cpu , like BAD COMPANY 2 or GTA4.

    as Dent1 said go for a 5750 or a GTS 250, and 4gb of cheap ram (DDR2 800)
     
  5. Pikem4n

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    37 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hi guys,thanks for responding :)


    Well the cpu is (i think) a E6400 if that makes sense,compaired to what i am using atm the stuff i've bought will blow it out of the water, whether it was a wise move to buy a 2nd hand mobo and cpu i am not too sure, but i did get it from a very trusted source.


    The new pc shall eventually be hooked up to either a 22 inch or 24 inch lcd, not HDTV as i previously stated so playing games and watching films in full HD on a big screen is not a must really.

    This is what i've so far opted for -

    Corsair TX Series 650W ATX PSU-£84.31 inc.VAT
    1024Mb nVidia GeForce GTS 250 PCI-Expres VGA Card-£93.71 inc.VAT
    1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm S-ATAII 32MB Hard Drive-£44.59 inc.VAT
    Corsair TwinX 2Gb DDR2-6400 (2x1Gb) w/ Heat Spreaders-£41.07 inc.VAT
    Total price inc VAT-£263.67

    Would you say what i've opted for so far are good additions to the mobo, or can i cut corners and find cheaper stuff that is better?

    Pike :)
     
  6. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068

    The E6400 is a very old model (July 2006), its has 2MBs of cache opposed to the 6MB of cache the higher end E8xxx Core 2 Duos have, I believe the E6400 is clocked really low @ 2.1GHz. Sitting at stock it will bottleneck most video cards, including the 5750 or GTS 250, that isnt to say games will not run, older games should run at high settings, but it will struggle on to maintain decent frame rates on newer games. I would suggest overclocking the processor, they should reach around 3-3.5GHz on a decent air cooler, this should eliminate some if not all the bottlenecking significantly.


    Which operating system are you using, 2 GBs is not enough these days. If money is an issue buy 1x2GB stick then add another 1x2GB stick in the future when you've got the funds. The Corsair TX series PSU is good, but on a low end gaming rig its overkill, you can shave about £10-20 off the PSU and you'll still have enough for a pretty good branded one.


    Recommended branded PSUs for cheap:

    Antec Basiq Power 550W PSU £54.99
    OCZ Stealth XStream 600W £57.99
    OCZ StealthXstream II 600W £61.56
    Antec EarthWatts 650W £67.05
    OCZ 700W ModXStream Pro Power £67.46

    Antec Basiq Power 550W PSU - 6x SATA 2x PCI-E 20+4...
    OCZ Stealth XStream 600W PSU - SLI Ready ATX2.2 12...
    Antec EarthWatts 650W PSU - 80Plus Certified 12cm ...
    OCZ 700W ModXStream Pro Power Supply | Ebuyer.com
    OCZ StealthXstream II 600W Power Supply | Ebuyer.c...


    If you are buying just 2GBs get one of these 1x2GB modules.

    OCZ 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 CL 5-6-6-15 Value Ser...
    Crucial 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory ...
    Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory CL5 1.8V |...
    Crucial 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory ...
    Corsair 2GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Xtreme.. | E...
    Kingston 2gb Ddr2 800mhz Hyperx Memory Non-ecc Cl5...

    If you are buying 4 GBs of ram get one of these 2x2GB modules.
    Kingston 4gb (2x2gb) Ddr2 800mhz Memory Non-ecc Cl...
    OCZ 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800Mhz/PC2-6400 Memory Unbuff...
    Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Ki...
    Crucial 4GB (2X2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  7. dr_dream

    dr_dream New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    47 (0.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    My advice is to keep away from DDR2, because it is outdated and for aproximately the same amount of money you get DDR3. However this also involves a newer platform, like the AM3 or LGA1156.

    If I were you, I would sell the rest of your PC components and gather money for an AM3 platform, which has cost-efficient CPUs and accessible mobos.

    You should also keep your choices for the PSU and HDD ! As for the video card, a Radeon 5750 wouldn't be bad at all.
     
  8. bobisgod New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    39 (0.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    No Way you need 650w 400-500 will be just fine. Get a quality Antec, Corsair, or Seasonic one.
    If you can stretch your budget, try to grab the gtx 460. I would recommend 4 gb of ram but 2gb is just fine for games.
     
  9. 1nf3rn0x

    1nf3rn0x

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,078 (0.79/day)
    Thanks Received:
    379
    The GTS 250 is a nice little performer. It can max ALL games at 1680x1050. Even crysis. I know since I have a GTS 250 but it isn't needed now. IF you buy a nice cpu cooler atleast overclock the e6400 to 3ghz+ to limit bottleneck, pair it with some ddr2 ram and your board has alot of fsb so overclocking shouldn't be too hard. :D Atleast get 4gb of ram, 2gb just doesn't cut it these days.
     
  10. Pikem4n

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    37 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hi again folks


    Thanks for the suggestions i've done a little bit of looking around to see if i can shave a few pounds off the original price from i originally said i was going for, this is what my current list looks like-


    Corsair TwinX 2Gb DDR2-6400 (2x1Gb) w/ Heat Spreaders £34.95(£41.07)

    1024Mb nVidia GeForce GTS 250 PCI-Express VGA Card £79.75(£93.71)

    OCZ 500W StealthXStream PSU, PowerWhisper, Active PFC £35.95(£42.24)

    750GB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32Mb SATAII Hard Drive £36.50(£42.89)

    Total Exc. £187.15 VAT £32.75 Total Inc. £219.90

    Would this suffice? The prices are the cheapest i could find(from eclipse computers) :)
     
  11. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    Since your initial budget was up to 300 I would strongly recommend you get a GTX460, since for 50 pounds more you get twice the performance and futureproofing or at least get a HD5770 which costs about 35 pounds more than your the GTS250, but is slightly faster and has DX11.
     
  12. dr_dream

    dr_dream New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    47 (0.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    8
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Even if the CPU would be not exactly sufficient, a GTX460 would be a great choice, compared to the GTS250 1GB ! If you think that the GTX460 is too much, go for a HD5750 or a GTS250 512MB (1GB won't bring better performances, same case as for the HD4870 512 vs 1024MB -> minor performance gain at very high resolutions)! I also recomment you to go for a more powerful PSU, if the price difference is little, try to pick a 600W unit, it's more future-proof like that.
     
  13. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068
    Looks good, but as I said before I wouldnt get 2x1GB sticks, but instead I would opt for a single stick of 2 GBs, by doing this you'll have more modules available on the motherboard for future ram upgrades.



    The 5770 does not perform much better thanthe GTS 250, the extra 10% performance does not justify the extra £30-40. But I agree the GTX460 768MB is worth buying if the budget can stretch and is a better offer deal price/performance than the 5770. http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Axle/GeForce_GTX_460_768_MB/images/perfrel.gif

    PALIT GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 £144
    PALIT GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 VGA DVI HDMI Out PCI-E.....
     
  14. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    Oh a dual is more than enough: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/5

    It's HD5870 and GTX470 they are testing there. Buying a new CPU just for gaming is a complete waste nowadays. A 3 Ghz dual is enough (I'm assuming he will OC). You do loose 10% performance in SOME games, but that does not justify the expense at all.

    @Dent1

    Sorry man, but you give really bad suggestions overall (EDIT: I backpedal on that statement, the 2GB stick recommendation made the deal. :toast:). I mean, he got a decent CPU+MB+heatsink for 70 pounds and you tell him that was a stupid move, yet you recommend him a 300 pound upgrade which is going to be just as obsolete in 1 year. If he had not bought anything yet I could make half sense of that reccomendation, but as things are now they don't make any sense.

    Good PSU recommendations though.

    Regarding the 5770 I completely agree, but sometims some people just don't want or simply cannot pay more, that's why I suggested it. Sometimes even a 20 bucks difference is a lot for some people. Especially if they are kids, which we don't know if that's the case here.
     
    computertechy says thanks.
  15. Pikem4n

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    37 (0.01/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hi again guys

    Your making me smile in a wry sort of way atm lol, anyway i will overclock the cpu, not straight away but eventually i will do so as i know the current heatsink would not be that great to Oc a cpu,And i am taking everyone's suggestions onboard (thanks truly for the input) Currently thinking about this - ditching the 500w psu and going for 600w version i think i will stick with the gfx card though as i've just checked out the site that i am looking on and the price difference between the 512mb and 1gb versions of the GTS250 is only 1 pound!

    Regarding the memory, i think if i now opt for getting 4gb instead of 2gb my budget will creep up nearer to that 300 pound mark,because i forgot about adding a optical drive and the Os system into the mix! But i will have 4gb,but not straight away and Ok compaired to all the newer pc components out there what i am about to build might be a bit of a backwards step but for 7 years i've been used to a P4 based system so it will be better, but not by most of your standards :)
     
  16. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068
    That’s not true, I recommended a Athlon II X3/X4, AM3 motherboard with DDR3, this could have been done from £180, maybe even £150 with the Athlon II X2. When I said £300 I was talking about the "entire build", including the PSU, case, DVD drive and hard disk.

    I really do not see how the Athlon II X3 or X4 will be obsolete in a year, it stands a better chance at surviving a year than the E6400, not just because its faster but because its on a supported motherboard socket.
     
  17. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    Oh it will be mostly obsolete, just like almost every PC component is obsolete 1-2 years later, but that's not the reason for what I said. The thing is that he already has those components which is a clear advantage over having to buy them again. Besides an X2 X3 is not going to be any faster than what he got at games.

    I am not aware of UK prices, but a quick look at OCUK tells me that making an Athlon X3/AM3 based build for less than 300 pounds is absolutely imposible. CPU+MB+DDR3+heatsink already costs more than 200. Add a quality PSU (always a must), the most subpar case you can find and some cheap HDD and DVD drive and you clearly surpassed 300.
     
  18. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068

    The Intel Q6600 processor came out in early 2007, 3 years ago. Its just a bit slower than the 1 year old Athlon II X4 620. So are you saying that everybody that bought the Athlon II X4 620 on its release date bought a obsolete processor?

    Just listen to what you're saying, if a component is obsolete in 1-2 years, you are basically admiting the E6400 is obsolete already with it being 4 years old already


    You are kidding right? Iam not going to justify this with a response if you can not prove it. - sitting at 2.1GHz its a walking bottleneck.



    It is possible, maybe not @ OCUK, but you can definitely build a rig for £300 give or take.
     
  19. bobisgod New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    39 (0.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Don't skimp on PSU, get Corsair or Antec.
     
  20. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    It won't sit at 2.1 Ghz because it will be overclocked and NO it's not going to be a huge bottleneck. Bottleneck is the most stupidly used meme ever. Yes, of course a faster CPU will provide faster fps, but it will never give faster enough frames to justify its price, never. When taklking about gaming a GPU comes first always. A bottleneck GTX460/HD5850 will always be faster than a GTX260 in the fastest CPU in the world. If he is willing to spend 100 pounds more those are much better spent into a GPU, EVEN if it's massively bottlenecked. A bottleneck will never affect the card as much as GPU performance does.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Woaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!! :eek: MASSIVE... BOTTLENECK!!

    Now let's be fair and let's look at some better 3D engines in a GTX295...

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    What makes more sense a Core2 @2GHz + "GTX295/GTX470/HD5870" or "GTX275/HD5770" + "fastest CPU in the world OCed"? Look at Wizzards latest review if you are confused by now: HD5770 does half the fps than the GTX295 and no matter how much bottlenecked the latter is it will always be faster.

    Now make a thinking effort again and look at the dualies running @3-3.3 Ghz... Oh!:eek: They are in the middle of the chart!! Now things look even better.

    And just the last effort: we are talking about getting a GTX460 or something even slower. You are not going to see a bottleneck even remotely close to the one in those charts on a GTX460/HD5830. The GTx295 is 2 times faster AND is a dual GPU card which does need a little bit more CPU power than single GPU cards...

    Settled?

    EDIT: Oh the four extense charts are from this article: http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/cpu_scaling_with_the_geforce_gtx_295,1.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
    JrRacinFan says thanks.
  21. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068

    I hope it will not sit at stock, I advised the OP strongly to overclock it, so you have agreed with me that the OP should overclock the CPU to eliminate any possible bottleneck, because that is what I advised, and you seem to agree the same thing.






    Those dual cores in that review are the high end E8xxx series, they are the newer and tweaked models called "Wolfdale" and feature a massive 6MB of cache on a 45nm die. The E6400 is the older, hotter architecture on a 65nm die with a sluggish 2MB of cache.


    You can not compare the old "Allendale" architecture to the new "Wolfdale" architecture as there are performance differences.

    The argument at hand which you've seemed to duck was:

    -the Athlon II X3/X4, with AM3 motherboard and DDR3 would of cost from >£180
    -the Athlon II X2 , with AM3 motherboard and DDR3 would of cost from £150
    -Athlon II X3/X4, with AM3 motherboard, DDR3, branded PSU, HD, cheapo case for around £300

    oh yeah

    - The AM3 is a new socket and has a huge upgrade path ranging from the Phenom IIs X4, Phenom II X6 and possibly the bulldozers. Unlike the dead socket 775 which has a huge list of processors which are very hard to find new or are overpriced, not to mention the fact that some of them are not being manufactured any more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  22. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    Wolfdale was a whooping 5% faster than Conroe clock for clock. You don't have a point.

    180 pounds wasted.

    150 pounds wasted.

    300 wasted.

    oh yeah

    Futureproofing is shit. Get whatever you need when you need and save the rest. Spebding 150 pounds right now when he already has a CPU+MB that is more than capable of running current games is complete waste. Save those 150 and in 1-2 years when he really needs a faster CPU, because games changed radically, because he got a better GPU, whatever... only then, take those 150 pounds and buy the best you can for the price. That thing, whatever is going to be its name or brand, that thing is going to be much much faster than the X3. Besides buying an X3 now just to buy another CPU later on == bad idea all over again.

    I could almost agree with you if he didn't have anything, but since he already has a capable CPU there's no need to waste money. I tell you again if for whatever reason he decided to spend 150 pounds more than his original budget, he must spend them on a better GPU and more ram, not on a crappy AM3 setup/Core i5/i3 setup that will hardly be faster than the Core2 he already has (as I have demostrated). Period.
     
  23. Dent1

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    3,415 (1.43/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,068

    Where is the link to prove the 5%.

    Whether there is a 5% or a 500% difference it is not ethical to say the Allendale with 2MB cache and Wolfdale with 8MB cache are equivalent and pass them off as the same CPU.


    Wasted. You say "wasted" like if the one word explains your argument. The OP has already spend £70 on a socket 775 motherboard and a E6400 CPU, he has to spend another £40-45 for 2GBs of DDR2 ram to complete the build. That is a total of £110-115.

    £30-40 ontop of the initial £70 investment and he would of had new components with a fresh warranty. He would of had a faster CPU, a cooler CPU based on 45nm technology, higher memory bandwidth of DDR3 with overclockability for low timings and a upgrade path. Whether you believe in future proofing or not the upgrade path AM3 has can not be denied.


    The thing is you never read or comprehended what I said which is why you've got your panties in a twist.

    I am not telling the OP to spend £150 extra. I told the OP in plain English that he should KEEP his motherboard and overclock his CPU and buy some DDR2 memory and a good PSU. - I said that it was the wrong decision as AM3 route was better since he initially had a £370 budget. However since he missed the deal he should KEEP his components.

    If you read you would of understood me telling him to KEEP his components.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010
  24. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
  25. Benetanegia

    Benetanegia New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,683 (1.02/day)
    Thanks Received:
    694
    Location:
    Reaching your left retina.
    You simply cannot understand that since he would have to buy everything, AM3 is NOT the best upgrade path? At all? Not buying anything and being able to buy whatever you want (Core i6? i8? AM4? whatever) in the future is his best upgrade path BY FAR!

    Besides the X3 is NOT a faster CPU for gaming as I have repeteadly demostrated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)