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New Ryzen X570 system constantly corrupting files.

tabascosauz

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Just started using the PC since yesterday.... Was verifying war-zone and updating CS:GO and bam another error!

Edit: I've tried 1.45v to no improvement. Could this be motherboard related?

I've got a Noctua NH-D14 on this CPU so i dont think I have an airflow issue and I can likely push 1.4v-1.5v without any heat issues. To be honest I've only got a GTX1060 so heat wont be too big an issue

I agree this is a ram issue, I am just struggling to make it fail any test which is what the company will do when RMAing it.

Will be trying HCI - do i need to run multiples of this overnight? I Saw another tool but paid to test all the ram in one go

I will be doing something about this very soon. I have another kit of the exact same ram from a friend to try tomorrow.

Passive airflow from a neighboring CPU cooler is good for ballpark 1.45V, but 1.5V is where you start to want a dedicated small fan for just your RAM, especially given B-die temp characteristics, because 1.5V is getting serious and into unsafe voltage territory for a lot of ICs that are not B-die. Long story short, if 1.45V doesn't help, this B-die isn't anywhere near acceptable performance for B-die.

Anyways, let's not get ahead of ourselves. HCI's free version is limited to about 3072MB per instance, so just run simultaneous instances in which each of them is testing 3072MB (just type it in the box), then once you get close to about 2GB of remaining free memory (use HWInfo's reading), run an extra instance that tests less, maybe 1-2GB, to top it off. Then just leave them to run until either 400% completion (which is pretty certain for most intents and purposes) on all of them, or overnight. It will let you know if errors occur. HCI errors are not acceptable for stability.

IMO HCI gets the memory hotter than MT86 does, make sure with HWInfo in the background that the sticks are staying below 50C.

I wouldn't say it's an impossibility that the board is playing a part in this, but knowing the usual quality of LPX B-die it's much less likely. Hopefully after you test this kit, you can pop in the other one and see if it makes a difference.

Do remember to run both chkdsk and sfc /scannow in Powershell to make sure that Windows is eliminating existing disk/file integrity issues. Can't remember the exact commands for chkdsk but you want the full one that's scheduled to run at the next system reboot (Windows logo, spinning circle and chkdsk status messages running below it).
 

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I've got this running overnight, apparantly supposed to pick up errors faster than Karhu's Ramtest so Fingers crossed it finds an issue. If this passes overnight I will turn my attention to the CPU or board.

Capture3.PNG
 

tabascosauz

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I've got this running overnight, apparantly supposed to pick up errors faster than Karhu's Ramtest so Fingers crossed it finds an issue. If this passes overnight I will turn my attention to the CPU or board.

View attachment 167759

TM5 is a good one and you found anta777's profile for it, spot on! Dang, you're good at this.

You might not even have to run overnight, depending on who you ask this is one of the fastest ways to find instability.
 
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Did you have problems on another bios revision? if so was it 1407?
I am starting to wonder if my corruption is left over files from my days on 1407....

1407 never relevant for me, 1st thing I ever did when setting it up was update bios & then it was 2407.
 

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Changed the RAM speed and Infinity fabric speed to Auto - so I'm not forcing any settings

Passed twice at 2h:51 both times at 1.45v

Passed atleast 1h at 1.35v - will continue when I'm not using the PC.

Going to see if anything corrupts today and then continue testing later on
 
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Used to be a good list...two years ago. A lot of those kits are no longer made, or are now made with different ICs especially with the introduction of 8Gb CJR and Rev.E as well as the new 16Gb kits. Only stuff like 3200 14-14-14 and 3600 16-16-16 as well as high and tight 4000+ kits that no other IC can do, are still guaranteed to be B-die.

@Bo$$ a slightly unstable memory configuration (no GDM, occasional VDRAM drops) doesn't wreck a file a day. If you run it long term for at least 3-6 months with regular use, you're almost guaranteed to accumulate disk and file integrity errors, but just observing it for a day or two shouldn't elicit any symptoms.

Although I've not seen temperature-induced instability alone result in widespread corruption, remember that these are B-die. B-die is the only truly temperature-sensitive IC, and needs to kept below 50C at all times. With voltage between 1.4-1.5V, the thermal issue arises not during stress testing like Karhu/HCI/MT86, but instead during heavy gaming sessions, due to the intense heat off the back of the GPU easily heating up the sticks beyond how hot they can get in a pure RAM stress test.

Did you manage to do some testing with HCI?
Hi,
3600 is mostly amd's max frequency so no need to go any higher frequency than it :)
Only ones I wouldn't trust is the corsair listings, corsair is unpredictable they use the cheapest products they can at the time of need so g-shill/ team group/.. are best.
 

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Thanks for the reply, Unfortunately I already tried this, currently using known good cables off the old system and no difference
You're assuming that there isn't something wrong with the connector on the SATA drive or on the motherboard. Just because you used a good cable doesn't mean that it's RAM. If your RAM was unstable, you'd have far more issues than just corrupted data on your disk. In fact I would expect a BSOD or crash before that.

Can you pull the SMART stats off of the drive showing the corruption so we can make absolutely certain that it's not the drive, connectors, or cables?
 

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Capture4.PNGCapture5.PNGCapture6.PNG

You're assuming that there isn't something wrong with the connector on the SATA drive or on the motherboard. Just because you used a good cable doesn't mean that it's RAM. If your RAM was unstable, you'd have far more issues than just corrupted data on your disk. In fact I would expect a BSOD or crash before that.

Can you pull the SMART stats off of the drive showing the corruption so we can make absolutely certain that it's not the drive, connectors, or cables?
No corruption from that test. However I will be swapping out cables today to rule it out after your suggestion
 

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Bo$$

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It's back again.... RMA'ing the RAM as we speak. Still no test has ever found an error
 
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You know... blame Corsair and b-dies (even cheaper ones) may not always be the right thing to do.
It could be the CPU or the board to blame. IMHO board the most.
@Bo$$ we practically have the same sticks. Pretty similar. The one thing different is the speed (certified 3200 vs 3466)

This is with 1.47V DRAM voltage and a case fan (800rpm) close to sticks

Untitled32.png
 
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Myself, I quit using Corsair RAM modules a few years ago after experiencing problems on/off since 2002 with them. They seem to like to bait and switch. Despite being on many motherboard manufacturers' QVL approved list, I've had trouble with their modules more than any other.

I'm not trying to spread FUD about them - they work fine in thousands of systems - I just rather use G.Skill or Patriot. I prefer Patriot, but they aren't always the solution either. These AMD systems can be finicky, but they really are worth it when set up right.

Edit: I'd also like to add, I know the mindset is to get the fastest RAM possible, because benchmark this and that. As a man who has set up hundreds of personal systems in the past 25 years, I think stable RAM is the most important. The fastest memory isn't worth as much in real-world as RAM that gives no problems whatsoever. So what if it's DDR4-3200 CL18, as long as it's 24/7 stable. Just my 2 cents in general.
 
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PavelPr

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I registered here specifically to comment on this thread. Perhaps my post could save somebody else some grief and frustration.

OP and I have a some things in common. Recently, after a decade of service, I decided to demote my Core i7 2600k-based machine (what a great CPU!) to the status of a secondary PC.
My new PC is configured as follows:

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
128GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200MHz CL16 RAM (two CMK64GX4M2E3200C16 v3.40 kits, being four sticks of 32GB each)

The system is not overclocked in any way, as I prefer stability and reliability over performance.

Shortly after building the system, I began seeing data corruption. This first manifested in Epic Games Launcher automatically re-downloading titles after the verification phase (suggesting that there is data corruption) or Steam indicating that some installed titles are having corrupted files. I also saw a BSOD, and after inspecting the minidump file it turned to have originated in a very unexpected place (the call stack indicated that the call in question originated within the kernel). Then, while browsing the web, Chrome would display an error with the status of "STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION" (which to me would seem like a corrupted pointer value that was read from memory). All of this served to raise my suspicion level considerably.

I also noticed that a corruption issue would reproduce every single time if I re-downloaded a specific title from the Epic Games Store, triggering a post-verification redownload over and over. This probably happened because the data of the title in question contains patterns that are more likely to trigger the defect that my RAM had.

I initially lowered RAM frequency (from 3200MHz to 2666MHz) to see whether that would help, and while it did to some extent – the data corruption would now reproduce once in three downloads, instead of every download. I tried to update the BIOS to the latest version (3302) released on March 10. The change log stated "Improved memory performance", so I thought this could have a positive effect on my situation. It did not, however.

Right there, I was puzzled. Just like what OP describes, memory testing would yield nothing. I then downloaded Memtest86 by PassMark. Upon running that test, initial results were fine, that is until the Hammer Test (#13) would be attempted. There I would first see a note stating that "RAM might be vulnerable to high frequency row hammer bit flips". Some cycles later, concrete errors would start mounting up. Oddly enough, one could see an odd address distribution there: about 50% of the errors have occurred on a single address. That address would continue to "star" in subsequent test passes, even after rebooting (which made sense, as an OS with address abstraction/randomization/virtual memory is not involved here). Additionally, these errors would all happen in the same 36MB-big memory region (around the 23.3GB mark), and all seemed to be single-bit flips, too; I could never see corruption in more than one bit at a time (i.e. expected value: AE9E5412, actual: AE9E5410 – the difference between these is just one bit, specifically the second-LSB of the most significant byte [corresponding to 12 and 10 here]).

All of this was highly suggestive of a single defective RAM stick.

I then started testing RAM pairs (B2, A2 and B1, A1) by elimination, and was able to identify the offending pair as being installed in DIMM slots B2, A2 (since I purchased two dual-stick RAM kits, I would have to RMA both the offending stick and its same-kit counterpart. I therefore didn't care which of the two sticks was the culprit). To make sure that there is nothing wrong with other components, I moved the good pair from DIMM slots B1, A1 to DIMM slots B2, A2 and ran the Hammer Test once more. The good pair did pass the test once more (no "RAM might be vulnerable to high frequency row hammer bit flips" notes and no errors). Downloading games would no longer trigger post-verification downloads, too.

Reading PassMark's FAQ, it does seem like the Hammer Test gets some non-black-and-white special treatment there (for the curious, see: https://www.memtest86.com/troubleshooting.htm#hammer). Specifically, the FAQ states that in the event of Hammer Test errors, mission-critical RAM should definitely be replaced. However, home users may also choose to let these error slide, depending on their willingness to live with the possibility of these errors manifesting themselves as real problems. PassMark also suggests that if one does choose to replace the offending RAM, they may consider RAM modules of different model as it is likely that RAM modules of the same model would also fail the Hammer Test.

In my experience, however, the possibility of these errors manifesting themselves as real problems is very real. Moreover, my other RAM kit does seem to pass the Hammer Test without a problem, and there is no need to choose RAM modules of different kind (this might be an isolated case, however).

Having RMA'd the defective kit, I am expected to receive a replacement kit around in the Monday-Tuesday range. I will post another update after I am done with all the testing.

P.S. @Bo$$ Could you please write how you ended up resolving your situation? Did swapping RAM help?

Thanks!
 
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Are you aware of this?

Also keep in mind that 4 sticks are stressing the memory controller of the CPU a lot more than 2. In addition to this, 32GB sticks are multiplying the stress. It would be something like a miracle if you manage to run 4x32GB at 3200MHz. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it’s rare and at least requires the most compatible sticks you can find.
 

PavelPr

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I was not aware of these reports, no. I relied on the "Optimized for AMD Ryzen" label that appears on the product page (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK64GX4M2E3200C16). I am also aware that 4 sticks put more stress on the memory controller, however I do require 128GB of RAM for my workload and there is no way of achieving that – short of installing 4 DIMMs.

At any rate, I had one defective DIMM that corresponded to errors in one, constrained 36MB-big memory region (with one specific address being most prominent). Once the offending kit (pair) was removed, the test passed. When the offending kit was tested individually (2x32GB), the test failed. The other kit passed the test and switching DIMM positions made no difference. To me, this would be indicative of a defective DIMM. I hope that I am not wrong.

Moreover, lowering the frequency to 2666MHz did not resolve memory reliability issues entirely and while incidence did decrease, data integrity was compromised still.

Here are the chip specs for Ryzen 9 3900X: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/ryzen_9/3900x. Under "Memory Configurations", it does say, under "Dual Channel", "Double Rank", "4 DIMMs" that the supported speed is 2667MHz. Moreover, see this response from an AMD employee in a reddit thread regarding the possibility of running 128GB of RAM with a 3900X:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccdf2k/_/etmuo6p
My rationale is that if the 3900X is capable of operating 4x32GB at 2667MHz, then (at least) the same should true for my 5950X. Yet, I couldn't make the memory work reliably even at 2666MHz (I am using the 2667MHz and 2666MHz figures interchangeably because while 2667MHz is the official frequency, the C8DH BIOS displays the frequency as 2666MHz), presumably due to a defect in one of the DIMMs.
 
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The specification at max density is 2667mhz, that's for those 32gb sticks and four of them to boot. Read the specifications and then lower your expectations and assumptions. I'm not a fan of Corsair ram, but this is pushing whether it is Corsair or not by trying to run 4x32gb at 3200mhz which is hopeful at best and misguided if one considers the lack of success due to defective ram.
 

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So I fixed this issue by swapping to a patriot 3600mhz kit. The sister system is currently a 3900x, x570 board with 4x Corsair lpx sticks, when they had come back from RMA they were perfect.

Typed this out on my phone so apologies for the briefness, let me know if you have any follow up but I'm 99% sure in your case you have faulty ram like me
 

PavelPr

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The specification at max density is 2667mhz, that's for those 32gb sticks and four of them to boot. Read the specifications and then lower your expectations and assumptions. I'm not a fan of Corsair ram, but this is pushing whether it is Corsair or not by trying to run 4x32gb at 3200mhz which is hopeful at best and misguided if one considers the lack of success due to defective ram.

I attempted lowering the RAM frequency to 2666MHz, and was seeing corruption still. As I said, I was able to reproduce data corruption even with one specific kit (two DIMMs) working in a 2x32GB configuration. With regards to the specs, I was only able to locate these for the 3900X. I was not able to locate anything official for the 5950X or the Zen 3 series, for that matter.
 
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I attempted lowering the RAM frequency to 2666MHz, and was seeing corruption still. As I said, I was able to reproduce data corruption even with one specific kit (two DIMMs) working in a 2x32GB configuration. With regards to the specs, I was only able to locate these for the 3900X. I was not able to locate anything official for the 5950X or the Zen 3 series, for that matter.
What voltage are you running the ram at? Btw, the memory slots are paired A2/B2 not A1/A2. You're not supposed to pair them A1/A2. Maybe you already know that, I'm not sure by what you wrote.
 

PavelPr

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So I fixed this issue by swapping to a patriot 3600mhz kit. The sister system is currently a 3900x, x570 board with 4x Corsair lpx sticks, when they had come back from RMA they were perfect.

Typed this out on my phone so apologies for the briefness, let me know if you have any follow up but I'm 99% sure in your case you have faulty ram like me

Patriot RAM is something the store I bought this RAM from does not have, unfortunately. I am also constrained by the dimensions of my cooling solution (I prefer air coolers). I will stick with the Corsair memory for now.

What voltage are you running the ram at? Btw, the memory slots are paired A2/B2 not A1/A2. You're not supposed to pair them A1/A2. Maybe you already know that, I'm not sure by what you wrote.

1.35v, as per spec. RAM was configured per DOCP, while just lowering the frequency to 2666MHz. Regarding the memory slot pairing, you are of course right. I mistyped this while typing down my initial reply. Apologies about that, I will now edit my reply to correct this. No such mistake was made by me while troubleshooting this issue in actuality.
 
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I was not aware of these reports, no. I relied on the "Optimized for AMD Ryzen" label that appears on the product page (https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK64GX4M2E3200C16). I am also aware that 4 sticks put more stress on the memory controller, however I do require 128GB of RAM for my workload and there is no way of achieving that – short of installing 4 DIMMs.

At any rate, I had one defective DIMM that corresponded to errors in one, constrained 36MB-big memory region (with one specific address being most prominent). Once the offending kit (pair) was removed, the test passed. When the offending kit was tested individually (2x32GB), the test failed. The other kit passed the test and switching DIMM positions made no difference. To me, this would be indicative of a defective DIMM. I hope that I am not wrong.

Moreover, lowering the frequency to 2666MHz did not resolve memory reliability issues entirely and while incidence did decrease, data integrity was compromised still.

Here are the chip specs for Ryzen 9 3900X: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/ryzen_9/3900x. Under "Memory Configurations", it does say, under "Dual Channel", "Double Rank", "4 DIMMs" that the supported speed is 2667MHz. Moreover, see this response from an AMD employee in a reddit thread regarding the possibility of running 128GB of RAM with a 3900X:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccdf2k/_/etmuo6p
My rationale is that if the 3900X is capable of operating 4x32GB at 2667MHz, then (at least) the same should true for my 5950X. Yet, I couldn't make the memory work reliably even at 2666MHz, presumably due to a defect in one of the DIMMs.
I have no doubt that 1 of the dual kits was defective since you test them individually. I was trying to give you the heads up for when the new one arrives and you’ll be back to 4x32GB.
Since the kits are signed with “AMD Optimized” (hopefully for ZEN2 at least) they should’ve work without issues at 2667MHz.
Maybe they will at 3200MHz too. If not then maybe some voltage increase on VSOC and UMC could make it happen.
 

PavelPr

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I have no doubt that 1 of the dual kits was defective since you test them individually. I was trying to give you the heads up for when the new one arrives and you’ll be back to 4x32GB.
Since the kits are signed with “AMD Optimized” (hopefully for ZEN2 at least) they should’ve work without issues at 2667MHz.
Maybe they will at 3200MHz too. If not then maybe some voltage increase on VSOC and UMC could make it happen.
Thanks! I am aware that running these in a 4x32GB configuration is a longshot and I will be testing them very thoroughly. I will lower the frequency as required.

By the way, does anyone happen have the official memory spec sheet for the 5000 series handy?
I cannot seem to be able to find it. All I was able to find is a wikichip page for the 3900X and a reply by an AMD employee on Reddit (again, with regards to the 3900X).

Further, reading through the Crosshair VIII Dark Hero QVL for the 5000 series, it is specifically stated that some 3200MHz 128GB (4x32GB) kits are compatible. Does that mean that the vendor's QVL is going beyond the CPU spec?
 
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Vermeer uses the exact same IMC (which is on the I/O die, and recycled from Matisse for Vermeer) as Matisse.
The only difference is Vermeer has better IF traces so it can do better/higher FCLK, but otherwise they should behave identically.
 
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Thanks! I am aware that running these in a 4x32GB configuration is a longshot and I will be testing them very thoroughly. I will lower the frequency as required.

By the way, does anyone happen have the official memory spec sheet for the 5000 series handy?
I cannot seem to be able to find it. All I was able to find a wikichip page for the 3900X and a reply by an AMD employee on Reddit (again, with regards to the 3900X).

Further, reading through the Crosshair VIII Dark Hero QVL for the 5000 series, it is specifically stated that some 3200MHz 128GB (4x32GB) kits are compatible. Does that mean that the vendor's QVL is going beyond the CPU spec?
I believe that AMD is going public with the minimum specs that will cover every board out there. Boards are not created equally though. Even the ones on the same chipset and configuration. Memory traces shielding and dimm layout (daisy-chain, T-topology) are key aspects among others that distinguish board capabilities on running different memory speeds and configurations.
 

PavelPr

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Vermeer uses the exact same IMC (which is on the I/O die, and recycled from Matisse for Vermeer) as Matisse.
The only difference is Vermeer has better IF traces so it can do better/higher FCLK, but otherwise they should behave identically.
Fair enough. Thanks a lot!

I believe that AMD is going public with the minimum specs that will cover every board out there. Boards are not created equally though. Even the ones on the same chipset and configuration. Memory traces shielding and dimm layout (daisy-chain, T-topology) are key aspects among others that distinguish board capabilities on running different memory speeds and configurations.
The Crosshair VIII Dark Hero board I have should be one of the highest-end AM4 ASUS boards. I'd therefore assume that I have a better chance at "pushing it" with the RAM on that board rather than with lower-end ones. With that being said, my significant other has a B550-based ASUS PRIME B550-PLUS motherboard at work, running a 5900X with 128GB (4x32GB) of RAM at 3200MHz. That board is a cheaper one, yet her machine at work is completely stable.
 
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