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New World, now officially launched, still damaging cards.

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I have never got this crazy of uncapped FPS, I see very limited benefit from it, if any at all.

I cap my FPS every game I play, I dont like running components at max load, and I find games run smoother when they running at a cap vs a hardware bottleneck. Not to mention it saves lots of power doing so, so a greener way of gaming.
I feel this. I have a 165hz monitor so I just set the refresh at the highest point likely to hold steady and let vsync do the rest. Sometimes I land in a weird middle ground where half-sync works for a steady 82 fps and thats what it is. Yeah... leave it wide open and it might break 100 at times but when it comes back down its not as nice as going up.

I like to stay at full or half refresh frame rates. I find that capping anywhere else is somehow "gritty" if that makes sense. Consistent but not smooth.

Tradeoffs though. Losing out with that extra latency. Personally I dont feel that - it just feels smooth to me. But I know for some people, that just totally unplugs them.
 
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Couple of buddies have the game and talked me into grabbing a copy. I've put around 10 hours into game and no issues with 3060Ti.
I don't have time to game more than maybe an hour at a time. I can't say the game is terribly exciting, at least not yet. Very grindy, though.

I enjoyed the grind of Aion when it first released....not really enjoying the grind of New World.
 

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MSI has gone downhill in recent years. I liked their motherboard I had recently x570 tomahawk but that was the only exception.
Perhaps, I wouldnt know. However, they do make consistently good graphics cards and I have several. These are the only MSI products I have.
 

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I'm confident this is New World's fault In fact EVGA should send me a new RTX GPU because New World is about to kill my GTX 980 once I play it. It's fine EVGA you don't have to Amazon can instead either way I want a upgrade for playing New World.
Thats nvidias fault for bios code and drivers.
 
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Thats nvidias fault for bios code and drivers.
Well, EVGA did jump the gun on claiming inadequate soldering... if they had waited for BZ to probe the situation, they could have claimed improper power balancing in BIOS, which then deteriorates some solder connection too fast. At that, it wouldn't look like its EVGA's fault alone.
 

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Well, EVGA did jump the gun on claiming inadequate soldering... if they had waited for BZ to probe the situation, they could have claimed improper power balancing in BIOS, which then deteriorates some solder connection too fast. At that, it wouldn't look like its EVGA's fault alone.
Detonators Strike again, dunanana!
 
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all cards that blew up had asynchronous Powerstage/Phase counts.
like buildzoid said that current balancing is very bad/almost impossible when you have an odd number of phases and powerstages.

Furmark gets detected by most GPUs as a powervirus and the GPUs are imediately throttling by up to 500-600 Mhz.
New World seems to be as heavy (transients) as furmark but the GPU boosts as high as it can.

i'd say it's still NVidias fault to allow this kind of VRM in the first place and 2nd making 350W+ Cards.
 
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I have over an 100 hours played in QueWorld. Which means AWS isn't involved in their server infrastructure. Thankfully my 5700XT hasn't had any issues. Though this is the first game that actually made me nervous during the beta to turn off V-sync. :laugh:
 
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Any game that can make my graphics card reassuringly busted is the game for me! :):):):)

Your know something, I'm with you on this one. I just wish I had the original release because this is what I would use to test my GFX cards

If anyone has the game "Close To The Sun" can you get to the games menu & check if it loads up your GFX card to 100%
 

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Your know something, I'm with you on this one. I just wish I had the original release because this is what I would use to test my GFX cards

If anyone has the game "Close To The Sun" can you get to the games menu & check if it loads up your GFX card to 100%
You know I was kidding right? The last thing I want is for a game to stress my card to the point of failure, whether it's got an underlying design defect or not.

No, I don't have that game I'm afraid.

I've seen games that run at extremely high framerates in their menus and that's not healthy for the card either. When you hear the chokes screaming with significant coil whine due to that framerate on an otherwise quiet card, then that means there's a lot of stress on the card and the framerate should be capped to prevent it.
 
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all cards that blew up had asynchronous Powerstage/Phase counts.
like buildzoid said that current balancing is very bad/almost impossible when you have an odd number of phases and powerstages.

Furmark gets detected by most GPUs as a powervirus and the GPUs are imediately throttling by up to 500-600 Mhz.
New World seems to be as heavy (transients) as furmark but the GPU boosts as heavy as it can.

i'd say it's still NVidias fault to allow this kind of VRM in the first place and 2nd making 350W+ Cards.

Case in point. Lower TDP cards are not getting into that space... most of the time.

You know I was kidding right? The last thing I want is for a game to stress my card to the point of failure, whether it's got an underlying design defect or not.

No, I don't have that game I'm afraid.

I've seen games that run at extremely high framerates in their menus and that's not healthy for the card either. When you hear the chokes screaming with significant coil whine due to that framerate on an otherwise quiet card, then that means there's a lot of stress on the card and the framerate should be capped to prevent it.

Nonsense. Coil whine is very common at high FPS. You dont even need high FPS sonetimes. 120 is easily enough... I get the emotion but thats just it. A feeling you connect to coil whine and card not being able to run at full utilization. Which is demonstrated to be just fine for many years on end, in the vast majority of cards...
 
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You know I was kidding right? The last thing I want is for a game to stress my card to the point of failure, whether it's got an underlying design defect or not.

No, I don't have that game I'm afraid.

I've seen games that run at extremely high framerates in their menus and that's not healthy for the card either. When you hear the chokes screaming with significant coil whine due to that framerate on an otherwise quiet card, then that means there's a lot of stress on the card and the framerate should be capped to prevent it.

Well I was serious. That's why I use that game menu for testing. It runs here 100% load on my GFX card using the Radeon Software. It shows strange artefacts around the lights if I push undervolting too far.
 

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Nonsense. Coil whine is very common at high FPS. You dont even need high FPS sonetimes. 120 is easily enough... I get the emotion but thats just it. A feeling you connect to coil whine and card not being able to run at full utilization. Which is demonstrated to be just fine for many years on end, in the vast majority of cards...
Not nonsense. Yes, some cards are quite noisy, for example my old GTX 285 buzzed at just 60Hz, bless. I'm talking about when the framerate really pushes it and it more or less screams at you, that can't be good for it. For the coils to release all that sound energy, they have to be under a lot of stress. It's obviously not a guarantee that the card will break under such conditions, but it certainly could.

Well I was serious. That's why I use that game menu for testing. It runs here 100% load on my GFX card using the Radeon Software. It shows strange artefacts around the lights if I push undervolting too far.
I think we're at slightly cross purposes. I hope so, anyway.
 
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Not nonsense. Yes, some cards are quite noisy, for example my old GTX 285 buzzed at just 60Hz, bless. I'm talking about when the framerate really pushes it and it more or less screams at you, that can't be good for it. For the coils to release all that sound energy, they have to be under a lot of stress. It's obviously not a guarantee that the card will break under such conditions, but it certainly could.


I think we're at slightly cross purposes. I hope so, anyway.

Maybe we need a thread with a list of games that sends cards to very high loads at the menu. This could help user(s) who want to limit the FPS as to not cause unnecessary loads/high temperature. User(s) could look at this game as caution, because if you don't know, you could walk away or pause a game at the menu thinking all is ok. The game I have pointed out sends my card to high temperature. It sounds like you have a small list of games that does the same thing which a number of user(s) are not aware of. I only know one game (already pointed out) but would like a list of games that does this.
 

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Maybe we need a thread with a list of games that sends cards to very high loads at the menu. This could help user(s) who want to limit the FPS as to not cause unnecessary loads/high temperature. User(s) could look at this game as caution, because if you don't know, you could walk away or pause a game at the menu thinking all is ok. The game I have pointed out sends my card to high temperature. It sounds like you have a small list of games that does the same thing which a number of user(s) are not aware of. I only know one game (already pointed out) but would like a list of games that does this.
That's not a bad idea. There's nothing stopping you from kicking off such a thread and letting people post with their game experiences of excessive framerates. I reckon this thread could be quite popular.
 
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Not nonsense. Yes, some cards are quite noisy, for example my old GTX 285 buzzed at just 60Hz, bless. I'm talking about when the framerate really pushes it and it more or less screams at you, that can't be good for it. For the coils to release all that sound energy, they have to be under a lot of stress. It's obviously not a guarantee that the card will break under such conditions, but it certainly could.


I think we're at slightly cross purposes. I hope so, anyway.

If we can get some evidence to support those claims, I'll happily look into it, but you just confirmed again that its just gut feeling you have, and I don't share.

What's more, coil whine also happens on much lower TDPs and framerates, and its a direct result of how the card / PCB is built and in some cases of coil whine, a drop of glue can fix your problem then and there - hiding the whine, but you're still sending the same current through the same metal. There is no data that I know of that shows any (as in: ANY) correlation between more coil whine and more stress/damage on the card. Again, I want to point out that GPUs are scaled and built to cater to 100% utilization, and even get a temperature equilibrium at 100% utilization - or even more than 100% if you consider the way Nvidia's GPU Boost works, for example. It opportunistically pushes the GPU to maximum power.

A big part of what this comes down to is, I think, our relationship with mechanical devices. We don't want to run cars 'in the red', they get noisy (it screams at you!) and we're even trained to listen for different car noise when we drive. Its a sign something is amiss. But we're now talking about an electrical device, with zero moving parts except the fans... and guess what, fans get noisy as RPM rises :) And coils get noisy simply because physics. There are many loud things in physics that just are what they are because of the contrast with its surrounding area. Think of breaking the sound barrier - it doesn't kill planes, but it just notifies breaking the barrier. Nobody gets harmed or reduced lifespan for it.

Its similar in that regard to our perception of how heat can kill components. We think 80C is hot because its hot to the touch, but for a chip, its a perfectly fine operating temperature.

Its unwise to confuse gut feeling with reality. I'm guilty of that myself, and proven wrong more than once in a time. The least we should do in that case, IMHO, is challenge it rigorously.

Maybe we need a thread with a list of games that sends cards to very high loads at the menu. This could help user(s) who want to limit the FPS as to not cause unnecessary loads/high temperature. User(s) could look at this game as caution, because if you don't know, you could walk away or pause a game at the menu thinking all is ok. The game I have pointed out sends my card to high temperature. It sounds like you have a small list of games that does the same thing which a number of user(s) are not aware of. I only know one game (already pointed out) but would like a list of games that does this.

Borderlands 2 title menu. Vsync off. I've seen north of 1000 fps there.

Counterstrike. ;) In case anybody thought stellar FPS is a novel thing... :p

UT'99, Quake 3... any older shooter really.
 
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If we can get some evidence to support those claims, I'll happily look into it, but you just confirmed again that its just gut feeling you have, and I don't share.

What's more, coil whine also happens on much lower TDPs and framerates, and its a direct result of how the card / PCB is built. But there is no data that I know of that shows any (as in: ANY) correlation between more coil whine and more stress/damage on the card. Again, I want to point out that GPUs are scaled and built to cater to 100% utilization, and even get a temperature equilibrium at 100% utilization - or even more than 100% if you consider the way Nvidia's GPU Boost works, for example. It opportunistically pushes the GPU to maximum power.

Its unwise to confuse gut feeling with reality. I'm guilty of that myself, and proven wrong more than once in a time.
I've definitely had some screamers. In my gut, power circuits just make certain noises sometimes. The card I have now used to HATE me playing Fallout 4 because while I did use vsync and keep the monitor at 60hz, I modded the game to uncap on the loading screens... believe it or not it does improve loading times with that game when you're running a lot of mods tossing in extra scripts. Scripting system is tied to frame rates. Goofy, but it works with my setup. Regardless, this Strix 2060 just hated it for the entire first year I had the card. As frame rates climbed in excess of 4-500 on those loading screens, it was pretty grating, like a death ray charging up. At some point it just got tired of screeching and yet the card is still doing great on performance and temps. Just doesn't have a whine up at that point anymore.

The RX580 it replaces whined at anything much over 100fps, fwiw. And that only got worse. But that card is still pulling light duty. I bought it from someone here dumping his mining cards a few years back. It took that same FO4 loading screen abuse. Just a plain MSI Armor series.

I can kinda of see how all of that vibration *might* actually be harmful. But I've never had anything that whines die on me.
 
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I've definitely had some screamers. In my gut, power circuits just make certain noises sometimes. The card I have now used to HATE me playing Fallout 4 because while I did use vsync and keep the monitor at 60hz, I modded the game to uncap on the loading screens... believe it or not it does improve loading times with that game when you're running a lot of mods tossing in extra scripts. Scripting system is tied to frame rates. Goofy, but it works with my setup. Regardless, this Strix 2060 just hated it for the entire first year I had the card. As frame rates climbed in excess of 4-500 on those loading screens, it was pretty grating, like a death ray charging up. At some point it just got tired of screeching and yet the card is still doing great on performance and temps. Just doesn't have a whine up at that point anymore.

The RX580 it replaces whined at anything much over 100fps, fwiw. And that only got worse. But that card is still pulling light duty. I bought it from someone here dumping his mining cards a few years back. It took that same FO4 loading screen abuse. Just a plain MSI Armor series.

I can kinda of see how all of that vibration *might* actually be harmful. But I've never had anything that whines die on me.

I think of whine as a similar thing to my Induction furnace in the kitchen. High current = vibration. When I use the boost mode on it, it screeches like mad :D
 
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I think of whine as a similar thing to my Induction furnace in the kitchen. High current = vibration. When I use the boost mode on it, it screeches like mad :D
I think of it as resonance... maybe a function of total power and power frequency together. I always figured the frequency part was what made it a deal with GPUs... something something frame rate + VRM switching frequency + resonant frequency of the inductors. And then the more current you have, the louder it gets. But I guess that would also mean that if they're vibrating, they're just telling you they're still working, so all is well?
 
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I have never got this crazy of uncapped FPS, I see very limited benefit from it, if any at all.

I cap my FPS every game I play, I dont like running components at max load, and I find games run smoother when they running at a cap vs a hardware bottleneck. Not to mention it saves lots of power doing so, so a greener way of gaming.

Same here, been capping my FPS for years now.
Don't like to stress my hardware for no reason when I'm not even running a high refresh rate monitor anyway.
Either in the driver or in the game itself, atm I have it capped at 74 in the driver and call it a day.

About the coil whine discussion:

My current 1070 that I bought second hand has a weird way to whine, well more like a buzz.
It starts buzzing when the fans start to spin at around 20% and higher, its not related to 3D load cause if I simply raise the fan speed while say in MSI Afterburner and its idling at desktop so no load on the card it still starts to buzz.
It doesn't happen when the the fans are off while browsing,etc and the noise is clearly not coming from the fans itself I made sure about that.

Luckily its not really noisy + I play with a headset on so I don't really care but its odd.

O ye and my keyboard does coil whine if the RGB/backlit is on, I'm not kidding. 'not sure what whines on it but something does'
Wouldn't even notice it but recently it was really silent here which is quite rare and I was cleaning my keyboard while it was plugged in and I was like where the hell is that noise coming from, put my ear really close to the KB and there it is, whining from the KB. :laugh:


As for the high FPS in menus issue, a friend of mine butchered his Gigabyte GTX 970 Windforce with Warface years ago.
He never touches any settings nor has any idea about limiting frames and apparently the game used to have unlimited houndreds if not thousand FPS in the menu and ran the card at full tilt and over time one of the fans just died completely.
 
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Same here, been capping my FPS for years now. Don't like to stress my hardware for no reason when I'm not even running a high refresh rate monitor anyway. Either in the driver or in the game itself, atm I have it capped at 74 in the driver and call it a day.

As for the high FPS in menus issue, a friend of mine butchered his Gigabyte GTX 970 Windforce with Warface years ago. He never touches any settings nor has any idea about limiting frames and apparently the game used to have unlimited houndreds if not thousand FPS in the menu and ran the card at full tilt and over time one of the fans just died completely.
I've capped fps at or around max monitor Hz for years. As nice as it is for people to want to make a list of games that run uncapped in the menu's, there's got to be hundreds / thousands of titles that do that in the history of PC gaming. Eg, due to certain changes made in Windows DWM starting with W8, capping frame-rates using VSync doesn't always work (neither does MSI AB / Rivatuner overlay) in older DirectX 7-8 games anymore under Windows 8-10 the way it used to under W7. This means a lot of older games will typically run a 100% GPU load at several thousand fps (even with VSync / fps cap forced in the GPU driver), forcing the need for manual frame-rate caps, or upgrade the game's renderer to at least DX9 if such a mod exists so VSync / fps cap works again. No-one's going to go back and patch them though. Likewise, I've seen quite a few Unity Engine games where driver enforced VSync doesn't always work in-game unless the in-game VSync setting is explicitly enabled in-game too. Dusk is one example, but that's less a "fault" with that particular game and more it seems to be a common engine quirk in general, as I've seen so many Unity titles do exactly the same thing that it's not just coincidental 'bad coding'.

As for the downside, I'm sure there are some people running 360Hz monitors and intravenous caffeine lines for those Ultra Mega Leet Even Realer Than Real Gamer Hardcore Multiplayer Shooters (tm), but the bulk of average gamers often think they are more part of that group than they actually are, and I've seen more than a few who think owning a 240Hz + 900fps uncapped fps = guaranteed insta-win only to get creamed by someone on a budget 60-75hz panel. "Yeah, it's uh, my Internet dropped out for a second there". Of course it did. ;)

Freesync On but VSync Off + capping 2-3fps lower than the max monitor Hz has gone an awful long way to removing much of the higher lag + stutter of fixed 60Hz VSync On of old to the extent I can't say I notice any real difference in lag to me on or off at least to it making any practical difference in gameplay. Lower temps, power & fan noise and tearing artifacts are however, highly noticeable on any day.
 
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I've capped fps at or around max monitor Hz for years. As nice as it is for people to want to make a list of games that run uncapped in the menu's, there's got to be hundreds / thousands of titles that do that in the history of PC gaming. Eg, due to certain changes made in Windows DWM starting with W8, capping frame-rates using VSync doesn't always work (neither does MSI AB / Rivatuner overlay) in older DirectX 7-8 games anymore under Windows 8-10 the way it used to under W7. This means a lot of older games will typically run a 100% GPU load at several thousand fps (even with VSync / fps cap forced in the GPU driver), forcing the need for manual frame-rate caps, or upgrade the game's renderer to at least DX9 if such a mod exists so VSync / fps cap works again. No-one's going to go back and patch them though. Likewise, I've seen quite a few Unity Engine games where driver enforced VSync doesn't always work in-game unless the in-game VSync setting is explicitly enabled in-game too. Dusk is one example, but that's less a "fault" with that particular game and more it seems to be a common engine quirk in general, as I've seen so many Unity titles do exactly the same thing that it's not just coincidental 'bad coding'.

As for the downside, I'm sure there are some people running 360Hz monitors and intravenous caffeine lines for those Ultra Mega Leet Even Realer Than Real Gamer Hardcore Multiplayer Shooters (tm), but the bulk of average gamers often think they are more part of that group than they actually are, and I've seen more than a few who think owning a 240Hz + 900fps uncapped fps = guaranteed insta-win only to get creamed by someone on a budget 60-75hz panel. "Yeah, it's uh, my Internet dropped out for a second there". Of course it did. ;)

Freesync On but VSync Off + capping 2-3fps lower than the max monitor Hz has gone an awful long way to removing much of the higher lag + stutter of pure 60Hz VSync On of old to the extent I can't say I notice any real difference in lag to me on or off at least to it making any practical difference in gameplay. Lower temps, power & fan noise and tearing artifacts are however, highly noticeable on any day.

Yup, did the 74 cap on my 75 Hz freesync monitor for that reason when I owned a RX 570 for almost 3 years and it worked really well for me.
Now the 74 cap just stick with me even with a Nvidia card w/o using adaptive sync since I can't be arsed to buy a proper display cable. :oops: 'tried with what I have around and its a mess so I disabled it'

I did ran into some games that ignored the driver cap tho but not many.

Tho I agree with others that this shoulnd't be the 'job' of the user, I mean talking about New World here.
Like I mentioned that friend of mine for example doesn't even know whats that nor care, he just fires up games and go. 'not even the whining stock R5 3600 cooler made him care while playing AC ODY:laugh:'
 

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If we can get some evidence to support those claims, I'll happily look into it, but you just confirmed again that its just gut feeling you have, and I don't share.

What's more, coil whine also happens on much lower TDPs and framerates, and its a direct result of how the card / PCB is built and in some cases of coil whine, a drop of glue can fix your problem then and there - hiding the whine, but you're still sending the same current through the same metal. There is no data that I know of that shows any (as in: ANY) correlation between more coil whine and more stress/damage on the card. Again, I want to point out that GPUs are scaled and built to cater to 100% utilization, and even get a temperature equilibrium at 100% utilization - or even more than 100% if you consider the way Nvidia's GPU Boost works, for example. It opportunistically pushes the GPU to maximum power.

A big part of what this comes down to is, I think, our relationship with mechanical devices. We don't want to run cars 'in the red', they get noisy (it screams at you!) and we're even trained to listen for different car noise when we drive. Its a sign something is amiss. But we're now talking about an electrical device, with zero moving parts except the fans... and guess what, fans get noisy as RPM rises :) And coils get noisy simply because physics. There are many loud things in physics that just are what they are because of the contrast with its surrounding area. Think of breaking the sound barrier - it doesn't kill planes, but it just notifies breaking the barrier. Nobody gets harmed or reduced lifespan for it.

Its similar in that regard to our perception of how heat can kill components. We think 80C is hot because its hot to the touch, but for a chip, its a perfectly fine operating temperature.

Its unwise to confuse gut feeling with reality. I'm guilty of that myself, and proven wrong more than once in a time. The least we should do in that case, IMHO, is challenge it rigorously.
Ok, I don't fully agree with you, but I clicked Like because I appreciate your reasoned response. :)

You're right, I don't have reviews or studies to show how cards die or last for a shorter time if run like this. However, it's still a fact that the harder you push something, then the sooner it wears out, eg a bearing fan, especially a sleeved one, regardless of specific factors. It just is. Also, that noise indicates that all the other components are stressed too and greater heat and current does have specific wear characteristics on electronic components. Think about electromigration in CPUs when overclocked hard and overvolted which eventually kills them. It still happens at stock settings, but much less and takes longer.

Put all this together with the irritating noise of coil whine and it seems sensible not to push a card to this point, especially not for any length of time. Don't forget that these things are built to a price, which will add weaknesses. Do you really wanna pay over a grand for a graphics card? Oh hang on, we already do...

Thinking about it, remember how NVIDIA put out a warning regarding FurMark causing physical damage to their cards? I can't remember offhand if it was due to the heat, current, or various factors, but it was all over the tech press at the time. NVIDIA added a FurMark throttle to their drivers to avoid that damage and users bypass it at their peril. I've run it for a few minutes on every recent graphics card I bought, because they've got those big, efficient and silent coolers on them and yet the throttling is still quite marked on those as the card is kept to within its power limit. Even then, I only run it for a few minutes to test the effectiveness of the cooler for heat and noise, plus to stress it a little to see if it fails due to a hardware fault and then likely never again on that card.
 
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