Newbie here with one of the dumb questions

[timlab55]

I really do need to understand fans. Case in point, I have a i7-9700k, with a Asus Z390-E gaming motherboard. Now I currently have 6 fans hook up to it. I have the CPU fan connected to the CPU opt, I have (I guess), my other fans hub hook up to the CPU fan header (don't ask me why, as my son built it for me which he did (in my the option) did a great job). Then there is this hub thing, which I'm not sure about it. It's called a "
Bitspower Notos 120mm Case Fan, DRGB Computer Fan PWM PC Cooling Fan LED High Airflow Desktop Silent Cooler 1800 RPM w/PWM Fan Hub Digital RGB Controller (3 Pack)". It seems like all the other fans (5 of them are connected to this hub thing. The fans installed are BPTA Notos 120 DRGB Touchaque fans. I love it, it's quite, but what I don't like about it, is I can't control or let the BIOS control them. I do know that the power cord from each fan is 4 piin, and the RGB part of it is 3 pins. So I'm hoping someone can ring in, on what I can do in order to let the BIOS at least control 3 of these fans if not all the fans for me. As many topics I have read on this website, alot of people don't understand fan headers, or this or that. I'm know I'm one of them, and I'm hoping to learn.
Thanks

 

[bonehead123]

1) Your CPU fan needs to be connected to the "CPU Fan" header, not the "CPU OPT" one...

2) If your hub works like most other ones do, then it needs to be connected to one of the other 4-pin fan headers, not the "CPU Fan" one.. hopefully it has a SATA power connector, because powering 5 fans from 1 header is normally not a good idea, since that can draw more power than each mobo header is designed to supply

This should allow you to control the fans from the BIOS, however, the fans connected to the hub will appear as 1 fan, not 5, and any settings you make will be applied to all of them...

3) Assuming that you want to light up your fans, their 3-pin RGB connectors will need to be connected to either the "ARGB" or the "RGB" headers on the mobo, depending on if they are addressable (hence the "A") or not. This may or may not require you to install the Asus AURA software to control the lighting effects....

Hope this helps & good luck

 

[robot zombie]

That hookup will work, but its not ideal. CPU header is for CPU fan, with opt being a secondary for a second cooler fan, pump, whatever...

The reason this matters is simple. Your mobo monitors those headers to make sure the CPU fan is always working. If it dies, the CPU can over heat in a minute flat under load. So you should only have the CPU fan on that header. Imagine your CPU fan does die. Rare but I have seen 4 of them go in 10 odd years, so it happens. Because you have a case fan on the main CPU header, the mobo wont trigger a shutdown.

CPUs have other protections, but ideally you dont rely on those. Maybe Im oldschool, I have lost a CPU that way. Thermal shutdown was too late.

The hub is probably fine, but those headers can only take so much current. My assumption is that 5 normal fans on that hub is probably okay, but that can actually vary from mobo to mobo. Personally I would run the intakes on the hub. Im assuming theres 3 intakes and 2 exhausts? If thats the case I would run the intakes together and slap the 2 exhausts on spare headers, simply to split the power load on the headers and have independent control for intake and exhaust.

Looking at the pictures you have 3 headers on the bottim right. Perfect.

Not sure why you dont have control. You need the 4 for pwm control, but you should at least have dc with 3. Pwm is more granular but dc is fine too. If you plug that hub into one of the bottom right headers it should give you control. If not that hub may be pwm only. Not really sure there as Ive always just used y cables.

 

[timlab55]

1) Your CPU fan needs to be connected to the "CPU Fan" header, not the "CPU OPT" one...

2) If your hub works like most other ones do, then it needs to be connected to one of the other 4-pin fan headers, not the "CPU Fan" one.. hopefully it has a SATA power connector, because powering 5 fans from 1 header is normally not a good idea, since that can draw more power than each mobo header is designed to supply

This should allow you to control the fans from the BIOS, however, the fans connected to the hub will appear as 1 fan, not 5, and any settings you make will be applied to all of them...

3) Assuming that you want to light up your fans, their 3-pin RGB connectors will need to be connected to either the "ARGB" or the "RGB" headers on the mobo, depending on if they are addressable (hence the "A") or not. This may or may not require you to install the Asus AURA software to control the lighting effects....

Hope this helps & good luck

One good thing is that the power hub (I believe it's called that) is connect to a SATA power connector. According to my manual that came with the motherboard, It has a AURA RGB headers (4 pin RGB_HEADER 1-2, then it has a Addressable RGB header (4-1 pin ADD_HEADER, then it has a Chassis Fan header (2 of them), and it looks like it's a 4 pin as well. I've enclosed a link to the manual for your review, and wondering if you could be so kind as to tell me where to put all this stuff. I've also enclosed a link so you can look at the wiring for the this China power hub. Thanks.
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/.../E14841_ROG_STRIX_Z390-E_GAMING_UM_V2_WEB.pdf and the power hub is:

 

[Bill_Bright]

First, the dumb questions are the ones not asked.

Second, I agree with bonehead123. Only the CPU fan should be connected to the motherboard's CPU header.

6 fans (5 case fans) are a lot of fans. Do you really need that many case fans? Are you overclocking? What case do you have? Is your room climate controlled?

Keeping our electronics properly cooled is absolutely essential. But achieving the coolest temps possible is not. As long as we maintain the temps comfortably within the normal operating temperature range, that's just fine. That is, a CPU running at 25°C will NOT perform better, be more stable, or have a longer life expectancy than a CPU running at 55°C. And I note according to the Intel ark for your CPU, it can tolerate a T-junction temp up to 100°C. That's pretty toasty.

You said, "I love it, it's quite" (I'm assuming you meant quiet) and that's great. But it can probably be quieter with fewer fans and still easily maintain proper cooling. Having fewer fans may make your fan control issues easier to manage. Just a thought.

 

[robot zombie]

Thanks for the documentation! Thats seriously helpful. Its nice when people provide relevant info!

That hub is strange to me. I know it says to use the cpu header but I still wouldnt. Theres no reason I can see why you couldnt use one of the chassis 4-pins. From there you can run all of the fans off of it.

That might be why now that I think about it. Cpu and opt often share control, meaning the hub speed follows the cpu fan control. You would only see options for the cpu fan in your bios and that would control all of the fans on the hub as well. Simply put the hub on a cha_fan header and run the cpu cooler on the main cpu header.

Sata power is good too. No worries overloading the header!

Also make sure you have a fan on the red header of the hub. It looks like you need at least one fan on there for pwm monitoring to work.

 

[timlab55]

I'm trying and learning how to OC. If you notice my CPU has a base speed of 3.6 and the turbo of 4.9. Even tho, this is great as I've never had a machine this fast, I would like to just get it up to 5 or 5.1 on the clock speed. Again, as I mentioned, I'm learning. I had the CPU fan (for the cooler), then 2 in front of the case, 1 on the bottom, and 1 in the back as an going out. Then I recently added two on top of the case. The place where my MOBO is, enclosed of the computer desk. Yes, your right, I'm very old fashion in the computer world. My first computer was a TRS-80 ( where I learned how to program because radio shack wanted my first born for a program I wanted), then moved to an apple IIC, where I continue to learn how to program, then through the course of the years, I had nothing but intel and computers with i7 and 16 GB of ram. Other stuff didn't matter. Then I learned about the NMVe m.2 and said I had to get one. Then gaming came into my life (at the age of 64 (currently), and I play only two games so far which is World of Warships and COD.
Getting back to fans, I love cool, but I'm not freezing in my house either. currently as I'm type this and looking at Core Temp, all cores at 30-35c and all cores are running between 3.6 and 4.9, with the usage of 0-6% load. If you guys feel this is good, great please tell me, but I would like to correct this placement of fans and fans headers.
Thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

all cores at 30-35c
If you guys feel this is good, great please tell me,
but I would like to correct this placement of fans and fans headers.

Those are great temps - but you need to see what they are when you are pushing the computer. And FTR, I like and use Core Temp too.

As far as "placement" of fans, you generally want a good "front-to-back" and/or "bottom-to-top" air "flow" through the case. Top "blowhole" fans typically exhaust unless supporting a radiator, then they some times intake.

You also generally want a slight positive or overpressure. That is, you want a little more intake air being pushed in than exhaust air being pulled out. This slight overpressure forces the intake air in through your filters (assuming your case [hopefully] has filters). If you had negative or underpressure, air (and the dust, dander, and other crud in the air) would be sucked in through every crack, crevice, and connector port - not good.

I say "slight" because too much over or under pressure can actually hinder the desired "flow" of air.

 

[timlab55]

This is what I have found out since the last time we talked. My son has the CPU fan into the CPU (OPT), and the fan hub into the CPU FAN. According to what I've read that the CPU FAN and CPU OPT does the same thing. The CPU OPT is there in case you have dual fans for your CPU which I do not. So I would say that I'm safe. Over the week, I did get a little brave. I took one of the fans from the hub (pwd of course), and connected to the the Chassis Fan1 connection and then another fan (pwd of course) and connected it to the Chassis Fan 2. In doing so, I'm able to see what rpm the BIOS has picked out for these four fans. Now comes up to the next question of what I would like to do. Is there something out there, that will allow me to do something with the other 3 fans so that I read what is going on with each fan? According to my BIOS, I also have 3 Extension Fan slots. However, this was for a device that I guess ASUS was working on and it failed. So any clue as to what I can use to fill these slots with 3 more fans which I plan on taking off of the current fan hub?
Thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

So I would say that I'm safe.

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. You just stated that you learned the CPU (OPT) is for dual "CPU" fans. But the fan hub is to support "case" or "chassis" (not CPU) fans. So clearly, your setup is not configured as per design intentions, so why would you say you are safe?

If you mean "safe", as in nothing is likely to catch fire and burn your house down, then I agree. But if you mean safe as in done properly? Then I don't.

 

[timlab55]

According to the documentation that came with the fan hub, it says to connect it to a fan header. I guess he figure that since the cpu fan and cpu (opt) do the same thing as a fan header, that he plug it into that.

 

[Bill_Bright]

According to the documentation that came with the fan hub, it says to connect it to a fan header.

If it does not specifically say "case" or "chassis" fan header, then the documentation was either poorly written, something was lost in translation, or both.

 

[timlab55]

If you would please look at the enclosed PDF file, last page it states "The PWM FAN Multi Function HUB solves the problem of insufficient motherboard fan headers by expanding a single 4-pin fan header into a consolidated 10 headers solution, allowing centralized management of all fan wires. Make sure the PWM interface is connected to the CPU_FAN header of the motherboard. The red pin header on the hub is equipped with speed measurement function while the black headers are PWM conventional fan headers (no speed measurement signal, but does not affect the PWM function). Note：As one interface is extended into a multi-channel interface, only one of the fans speed is shown in order to avoid fan speed mismanagement and computer crashes,"

But that didn't answer my question from above. I had asked "Now comes up to the next question of what I would like to do. Is there something out there, that will allow me to do something with the other 3 fans so that I read what is going on with each fan?"

Thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

Okay, I understand your point now.

As you noted above, it also says,

As one interface is extended into a multi-channel interface, only one of the fans speed is shown in order to avoid
fan speed mismanagement and computer crashes.

This ensures the fan speed monitoring feature in the BIOS does not get confused. That was my concern. However, it says only one of the fans speed is shown. It does not say anything about controlling the CPU fan's speed based on the CPU's temperature and cooling needs. I don't know how that is being accomplished.

I am going to go back to my first post above. Is the extra fan hub and all those fans really needed. According to its webpage, that motherboard supports,

1 x M.2_FAN connector
1 x CPU Fan connector(s)
1 x CPU OPT Fan connector(s)
2 x Chassis Fan connector(s)

In a pinch, you can connect a case fan to the M.2 connector and usually set a fixed speed for it in the BIOS.

 

[timlab55]

Hey Bill, I've got another problem actually question. I used ASUS OC program this morning, everything was going good, and then on reboot it stated that my OC was 36%. What is 36%? Well, get back to the fans later, but to answer your question, yes they are needed. Living in SC, and my house inside does get up to about 80 degrees for the 4 hours that I'm on the computer. There is really no way of cooling off just the room I'm in. So I would say "yes" all the fans are needed.

 

[Bill_Bright]

So I would say "yes" all the fans are needed.

While ambient (room) temps certainly affect cooling, 80°F is not really very warm. It is just 26.7°C and that would be considered very cool if the CPU temp. And to that, it is the temperature of the electronics that determine your cooling needs. For example, my current room temp is 77.9°F but my CPU is sitting at a rather chilly 21°C with just the CPU fan and two 140mm case fans spinning at slow speeds.

I don't have an ASUS board here, or use their OC program so I don't know what 36% means. You may need to look at the actual clock speed and compare that to your CPU's default.

 

[John Naylor]

1. You can't say x number of fans are required w/o taking into account their flow rate. If the spec sheet says 80 xfm @ 1.2 SP ... consider yaself lucky if ya see 40 cfm @ 06 SP

Why Static Pressure & Max Flow Specs Are Poor Measures of Fan Performance

This is just a quick graphing demonstration of why fan box specs using static pressure and max air flow are generally poor tools in comparing fan performance. Very much like pumps, fans have a pre…

martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com

2, The two headers are designed to work in tandem. The CPU header provides speed control for the CPU fan and CPU_OPT fan setting the speed of what is connected to it; the CPU fan, provides rpm feedback from the 4th wire to the fan control utility.... the CPU_OPT usually does not and that's by design, its a good thing. You do not want multiple signals going back. The CPU_OPT header is for a 2nd fan on an air cooler or a pump. Save the CPU_OP ? Some MoBos are now providing a separate pump header in which case betetr check how it handles CPU_OPT.

3. Your board comes with AI Suite and FanXpert. Forget about BIOS control; Use FanXpert to control your fans

Discover The Benefits Of Fan Xpert+ - Republic of Gamers

Discover The Benefits Of Fan Xpert+ - Republic of Gamers

rog.asus.com

4. A good rule of thumb for determining the req'd number of fans where a quirt system is desired is :

One 120 mm fan for each 50-75 watts of component wattage
One 140 mm fan for each 75-100 watts of component wattage

5. Im not familiar with your hub ... some are well designed, some are not. What is important here when using a hub is that the only one fan should be sending a signal 4th wire which sends the rpm signal. On some hubs like Swiftech and Phanteks, this is done right ... on others (ModMyToys), it is not. Connect the Hub to the 1st of your two chassis headers

6. Your MoBo / CPU componentry warrants something better than a 200R tho with only a 5500XT its not a real concern. Not that its a bad case for a budget build, your MoBo / CPU combo is bit "up there" and if you upgarded to a bigger card which drew 250 watts or so, it would be better served by a case more suited to such demands. The case has the following fan mounts

FRONT FANS: 2 x 120mm (1x included)
REAR FANS: 1 x 120mm (included)
TOP FANS: 2 x 120/140 mm (optional)
BASE FANS: 1 x 120/140 mm (optional)
SIDE FANS: 2 x 120/140 mm (optional)

How do you have those 5 you have installed arranged ? What size and direction ?

I'll take a guess:

FRONT FANS: 2 x 120mm (Intake)
REAR FANS: 1 x 120mm (Exhaust)
TOP FANS: 2 x 120 (Exhaust)

The intake fans have filters, and when they get dusty, they can block up to 30% of air flow. So lets to the air balance equation with an 120mm exhaust fan = 1 Equivalent Fan (EF) and you cleaning fans relatively oiften losing only 20% air flow from filter and dust:

FRONT FANS: 2 (Intake) x 80% = 1.6 EF in
REAR FANS: 1 (Exhaust) x 100 % = 1.0 EF out
TOP FANS: 2 (Exhaust) x 100% = 2.0 EF out

So with 3.0 EF out and 1.6 EF in your case has an air deficit of 1.4 EFs ... that air is comiing in thru the rear grilles the vented slot covers and the unused fan mounts. Too hard to estimate what's coming in where but as you probably know, dust will be sucked in thru those open areas. But that's not my real concern, At the back of the case you're exhausting the heat from your CPU and GFC card; some of that is getting sucked right back in because of this 1.4 EF deficit.

My suggestion would be to add 2 more intake fans on the side which would add 1.6 EF assuming they were filtered. Of course if the dust clogging went past a certain point, a bottom fan would come in handy.

While eight fans might seem extreme, it will significantly reduce the noise levels as fans need to run slower. I have 16 fans in my build (6 case and 10 rad rans) and right now, they are not running as I type this. With Asus FanXpert, you control the fan curve. I have the fans set to turn off when CPU temps are < 35C ... right now it'se 31C, so no fans are runn ing ... Ambient is 25.3C. Another thing you can do is set the fans to ramp up and down. Another option that would be fine with your current set up is 2 in annd 1 out or 3 in and 2 out. What I would do:

a) Connect CPU fan to CPU fan header
b) Save CPU_OPT for a 2nd cooler fan
c) Connect the case fans to one or more CHA headers

d1) Connect the hub to CHA_1 and control all fans together with FanXpert. Set your temp / speed control points; leave ramp up speed at default ... ramp down speed at say 60 seconds. This will stop any occurences of fan whooshing up and down in cases where loads very quickly

d2) Connect Intake Fans to CHA_1 and exhaust fans to CHA_2 ... this allows you to set a lower temp threshold for each condition

At 35C, all fans off
At 40C, Intake Fans on
At 45C All fans on

More fans allows you to experience lower noise condition when system is under light loads... and, the system will see a smaller range of temps which is good as it minimizes thermal expansion and contraction or circuit board components. The life of electronic devices oft depends more pn ON / OFF cycles (# of thermal expansions and contractions) than operating hours.

The trigger numbers are up to you, what's important is that you have the opportunity to take advantage of the the flexibility and utility you already paid for.

5. It is important to know what type of hub you have.

a) The ones from Swiftech for example draw their power directly from PSU... you 1 fan or 15 fans it doesn't matter.
b) The ones from Phanteks work with both PWM and DCV fans ... if you use DCV fans and connect to PSU, you lose speed control, so you will be limited to about six (1 amp) , 140mm 1200 rom fans since power is drawn from the header. If you are using PWM fans, with the power connector, then you can connect up to 11 fans before you run out of connectors
c) ModMy tours hubs use only header power so limited to 1 amp
d) Im not familiar w/ your hub so be siure to check

6. PWM fands need PWM hubs and PWM headers using PWM control; DCV fans will work on any DCV / PWM header using voltage control. Phanteks hub works on either.

7. The 36% means 1.36 x the base speed of 3.6 MHz cor 4.9 Mhz ... same as original Turbo at 4.9 Mhz

For example, my current room temp is 77.9°F but my CPU is sitting at a rather chilly 21°C with just the CPU fan and two 140mm case fans spinning at slow speeds.

If you can make 25.5C air cool the CPU to 21C (4.5 C lower than ambient) , I wanna buy all my cooling system from you ... I'm guessing you meant 31 C ?

 

[timlab55]

I will write back later tonight, but just reading what you wrote, I'm very impressed! But I'm running up against another problem right now (maybe), and I have to go somewhere. But I promise I will write back to answer your questions and then hit you with my question. But the question of the hour right now is do you have a ASUS ROG 390-e or something similar to it?

 

[Bill_Bright]

1. You can't say x number of fans are required w/o taking into account their flow rate.

There's no need to get that complicated. Besides, flow rate is only a factor when the fan is running at full speed. And who wants that. Even the quietest fans make a big racket when running at full speed.

So nah! You can easily tell if you need more fans (or need to crank up current fan speeds) simply by checking your current temps. If running too warm, you need more air flow. Simple as that.

The 36% means 1.36 x the base speed

That is what I suspected too, but IMO, and according to standard mathematics conventions, that is wrong.

If 1.36 times the base speed, it should say 136%.

If the base speed is 3.6GHz, 36% of that would be 1.296GHz. If it goes by the Turbo mode speed, it would be 1.764GHz (4.9 x .36 = 1.764). I can only assume marketing weenies got in there and messed things up again.

 

[timlab55]

Well John; I will say your on the money with the placement of my fans. Then I have a bottom fan which is intake as well which is 120mm

FRONT FANS: 2 x 120mm (Intake)
REAR FANS: 1 x 120mm (Exhaust)
TOP FANS: 2 x 120 (Exhaust)

Again, I'm wondering if you have a ASUS ROG motherboard? The reason why I ask is because you mentioned it in your first post about the Fan Epert. Here's my reason for asking. I'm not at all familiarize with OC. In fact, I'm still learning, but at a much slower pace. The program AI Suite 3 which has Fan Xpert in it, has 2 OC subprograms. The first one (picture of brains), is called Intelligent overclock your CPU. I did this once since I've had this MOBO, and the temps spiked way up there. Scared me to death that I might hurt the CPU. After it ran tho, it gave me a clock speed of 5.2. I was impressed, but I didn't like the temps and at one point, I was playing my game and the whole system just shut down. Then they have another one, which is called 5 Way Optimization. This one I have used in case I screw something up in the BIOS. I like due to the fact that after it's done, the fans are quite, and when I look at CPUID HWMonitor the temps are good, but this highest for all the clocks speeds are only 4.3. But now when I go into the TPU Insight (part of AI Suite 3) it shows me that all my cores are ready at 5.1. So is there a problem and if so what is it? I can't even get it up to 4.9 especially when I toss two games at the same time at it (COD WW2 and World of Warships) just to see if it will raise the clock speed, but it doesn't only 4.3 and that's it.