• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Next GeForce series won't be Volta but Pascal-Refresh

P4-630

The Way It's Meant to be Played
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
9,333 (2.00/day)
Likes
9,206
Location
Vinewood
System Name Sansaya / Sansaya Laptop
Processor Intel i7 6700K @ 4.3GHz (1.175 V) / Intel i3 7100U
Motherboard Asus Z170 Pro Gaming / HP 83A3 (U3E1)
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut + 3 case fans / Fan
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz CL15 / 6GB DDR4 Samsung 2400MHz CL15
Video Card(s) MSI GTX1070 Gaming X 8GB / Intel HD620
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 512GB + Hitachi 2.5" 7200rpm 750GB / Samsung 256GB M.2 SSD
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p + 21.5" LG 22MP67VQ IPS 60Hz 1080p / 14" 1080p IPS Glossy
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window / HP Pavilion
Audio Device(s) SupremeFX Onboard / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system
Power Supply Be quiet! Straight Power 10 500 Watt CM / Powerbrick
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless / Logitech Nano Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless / HP backlit
Software Windows 8.1 x64 / Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Superposition 14106 (1080p medium) Fire Strike 21169 graphics score. Valley 8xAA 4218
#1
"Over a year ago, Nvidia launched the Pascal architecture, which is being used for the current generation of GeForce video cards. There has been a lot of talk and speculation lately about the future Volta architecture. However, the following GeForce series will not be based on this. According to recent reports, it concerns a further development of Pascal.

With the further development of Pascal architecture, Nvidia seems to choose a type of tick-tock strategy, as we know for example from Intel. This means, among other things, that we do not expect HBM2 memory on the future GeForce series, so the high-end cards should also have maximum GDDR5X video memory. However, the production process is slightly modified. Current chips are baked according to the 16 nm FinFET procedure of TSMC, this would be reduced to 12 nm. However, this is more an optimization of the current process rather than something new, which in this case we should not expect any miracles.
"

https://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/525...erie-wordt-doorontwikkeling-pascal-geen-volta
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
5,695 (3.41/day)
Likes
4,237
Location
Washington, USA
System Name Volt
Processor i7-4790k
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 5
Cooling NZXT Kraken X60
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws 4x8GB
Video Card(s) MSI GTX1080 Ti Gaming X
Storage 250GB SSD / 2x1TB + 2x2TB HDD
Display(s) 3x AOC 2425W + ViewSonic VA2855Smh
Case Nanoxia Deep Silence 6
Audio Device(s) LucidSound LS30
Power Supply Rosewill Fortress 750w
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard G.Skill KM780 RGB (Brown switches)
Software Windows 10 Professional
Benchmark Scores Technical term is PEBCAK issue, which stands for Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard
#2
I feel more better about my card. Wooooo.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,406 (1.50/day)
Likes
1,572
Location
AK, USA
Processor Ryzen 5 2600X - all cores 4.0 GHz
Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu with AM4 bracket
Memory PNY Anarchy-X XLR8 Red DDR4 3200 MHz C15-17-17-17-35
Video Card(s) XFX RS RX 480 GPU @ 1288 MHz - 1.040 mV from 1.175 | GDDR5 @ 2075 MHz
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB, SanDisk Ultra II 480 GB
Display(s) IP2362 OCed refresh rate - 76Hz (Freesync supported over HDMI with CRU)
Case Phantek Eclipse P400S (PH-EC416PS)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC887 (dead)
Power Supply EVGA 850 BQ
Mouse Kingston HyperX Pulsefire FPS
Keyboard Logitech K520
Software Windows 10 Professional 64-bit
#3
So AMD's Vega will be competing with Nvidia's Volta in HPC, and also a Pascal refresh?
 

P4-630

The Way It's Meant to be Played
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
9,333 (2.00/day)
Likes
9,206
Location
Vinewood
System Name Sansaya / Sansaya Laptop
Processor Intel i7 6700K @ 4.3GHz (1.175 V) / Intel i3 7100U
Motherboard Asus Z170 Pro Gaming / HP 83A3 (U3E1)
Cooling Noctua NH-U12S + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut + 3 case fans / Fan
Memory 16GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz CL15 / 6GB DDR4 Samsung 2400MHz CL15
Video Card(s) MSI GTX1070 Gaming X 8GB / Intel HD620
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 512GB + Hitachi 2.5" 7200rpm 750GB / Samsung 256GB M.2 SSD
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p + 21.5" LG 22MP67VQ IPS 60Hz 1080p / 14" 1080p IPS Glossy
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window / HP Pavilion
Audio Device(s) SupremeFX Onboard / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system
Power Supply Be quiet! Straight Power 10 500 Watt CM / Powerbrick
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless / Logitech Nano Laser wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless / HP backlit
Software Windows 8.1 x64 / Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Superposition 14106 (1080p medium) Fire Strike 21169 graphics score. Valley 8xAA 4218
#4
It seems that Nvidia doesn't feel the need of much faster cards yet, even with Vega coming.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
23,023 (6.29/day)
Likes
12,045
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#5
AMD did the same with with RX 4## and RX 5##. They were thought to be Vega until it was obvious that it wasn't.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
5,066 (2.06/day)
Likes
4,478
Location
Florida
System Name natr0n-PC
Processor 2600K@5GHz / Xeon E3-1290 / Phenom II X6 1100T / Dual Xeon X5675's (12c24t)
Motherboard Asus Sabertooth Z77 / MSI 970 Gaming / GIGABYTE GA-7TESM
Cooling Deep Cool Assassin / TRUE 120 / Stock
Memory Gskill Ripjaws X - 16GB DDR3 / Samsung Reg - 24GB DDR3 Hexa-Channel
Video Card(s) MSI 7970/EVGA GTX 980 / ASUS 980ti Strix
Storage Crucial MX300 525GB + Multiple Mechs
Display(s) SyncMaster 2343BWX 23" 2048x1152 / Dell 1909W 19" 1440x900
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Fatality / X-Fi Titanium
Power Supply Corsair TX650 v1/ EVGA SuperNOVA 750
Software Windows XP/7/8.1/10
Benchmark Scores Xeon E3-1290 cpuz world record
#6
A positive thing about refresh chips are better optimized drivers.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
3,075 (4.75/day)
Likes
2,232
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Turbo 6GB ~ 2139 Mhz / 9.4 Gbps
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
#7
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
7,006 (2.17/day)
Likes
6,523
Location
Glasgow - home of formal profanity
System Name New Ho'Ryzen
Processor Ryzen 1700X @ 3.82Ghz
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VI Hero
Cooling TR Le Grand Macho & custom GPU loop
Memory 16Gb G.Skill 3200 RGB
Video Card(s) GTX1080ti (Heatkiller WB) @ 2Ghz core/1.5(12)Ghz mem
Storage Samsumg 960 Pro m2. 512Gb
Display(s) ACER Predator 32" 4k G-Sync
Case Lian Li PC-V33WX
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic Prime TItanium 850
Software W10
Benchmark Scores Look, it's a Ryzen on air........ What's the point?
#8
Source is Fudzilla.

We'll need to wait and see. Though Volta is heavily about AI/ML as suggested so may not be a surprise to diverge the two systems for PC and compute.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
8,679 (3.96/day)
Likes
10,966
Location
Massachusetts
System Name Americas cure is the death of Social Justice & Political Correctness
Processor i5 8600k
Motherboard Asrock Z370 Extreme 4
Cooling Corsair H-110i GTX
Memory 2x 4Gb Crucial Sport LT
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980 Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 evo 250Gb
Display(s) Dell Ultra Sharp Widescreen 24" 1200P
Case Fractal Design Meshify-C
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 spectrum
Keyboard AZIO MRGB Kaith Blue
Software Win 10 Professional 64 bit
Benchmark Scores Congrats USA!! on the Travel Ban.....
#9
It seems that Nvidia doesn't feel the need of much faster cards yet, even with Vega coming.
i Cant blame them...i cant believe the best gpu amd has is the (iirc)580. it is in line with the 9xx gpu's released in 2015 performance wise:shadedshu:
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
15,605 (3.93/day)
Likes
9,215
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K at stock (hits 5 gees+ easily)
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (4 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme Edition
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Green 4TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2720Z | Asus VG278HE (both 27", 144Hz, 3D Vision 2, 1080p)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair HX 850W v1
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
#10
i Cant blame them...i cant believe the best gpu amd has is the (iirc)580. it is in line with the 9xx gpu's released in 2015 performance wise:shadedshu:
Yup, clearly NVIDIA aren't worried about competition from AMD so they're extracting more profits from the current design at our expense. AMD really need to pull a Ryzen and then some with their flagship GPU to get competition back on track.

And from the articles I've seen, Vega is rumoured to perform like a 1080 at best, not even the 1080 Ti, so no wonder. This hardware.info article just helps to give credibility to those rumours.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
8,679 (3.96/day)
Likes
10,966
Location
Massachusetts
System Name Americas cure is the death of Social Justice & Political Correctness
Processor i5 8600k
Motherboard Asrock Z370 Extreme 4
Cooling Corsair H-110i GTX
Memory 2x 4Gb Crucial Sport LT
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 980 Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 evo 250Gb
Display(s) Dell Ultra Sharp Widescreen 24" 1200P
Case Fractal Design Meshify-C
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 Gold
Mouse Logitech G502 spectrum
Keyboard AZIO MRGB Kaith Blue
Software Win 10 Professional 64 bit
Benchmark Scores Congrats USA!! on the Travel Ban.....
#11
Yup, clearly NVIDIA aren't worried about competition from AMD so they're extracting more profits from the current design at our expense. AMD really need to pull a Ryzen and then some with their flagship GPU to get competition back on track.

And from the articles I've seen, Vega is rumoured to perform like a 1080 at best, not even the 1080 Ti, so no wonder. This hardware.info article just helps to give credibility to those rumours.
I actually had high hopes for the rx 5XX series :( ..... I can remember when I pulled out my GTX 970 to test the RX 580 with twice as much memory, as well as not suffering from the .5 GB of "slow Vram",(the 970's "suffered" with) although it never made any difference for me. And the switch was almost unnoticeable aside from the normal subtle differences when you're switching from a Nvidia to an AMD GPU. If it wasn't for this massive boom in crypto coin value I wonder where the price of the RX series would be right now $150/580? Who knows.

Don't get me wrong I'm not biased toward either brand, it's simple matter of hoping for a healthy market of competition so that we benefit in the end (Ofc "we" being the collective consumer market). To that end -please AMD , get off your A$$'$)
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
810 (0.33/day)
Likes
550
Location
Romania
System Name No name
Processor i5 8600k@4800Mhz 1.22v
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 UD3P
Cooling Noctua U12P
Memory 16GB 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) Evga 980Ti SC + Accelero Xtreme III
Storage Kingston AV400 256GB, WD30PURX
Display(s) Asus MG279Q and AOC q3279vwfd8
Case Regnum RG4F Frosty White
Audio Device(s) XFI Music
Power Supply Seasonic G650 650W
Mouse Cougar 600M
Keyboard Asus Strix MX Brown
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores 5948 3dmark TimeSpy
#12
It seems that Nvidia doesn't feel the need of much faster cards yet, even with Vega coming.
Problem is availability and they probably exploit this, miners don`t care about drivers, connectivity or such things.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
400 (0.16/day)
Likes
244
Location
Sweden
Processor Intel Core i7 5960X - 4.5 Ghz
Motherboard Asus X99-E WS
Cooling 360 Monsta + 360 ST30 | 9 White EK Vardar
Memory 32GB Corsair LPX 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3
Storage Intel 750 400GB, Intel 750 1.2TB
Display(s) Asus PG279Q | 2 x Dell U2412M
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo SE Black/White
Audio Device(s) Schiit Jotunheim - Xonar Essence One | Fostex TH-900, Fidelio X2 - KRK Rokit RP-6 G3
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i - Black/White Cablemod Sleeves
Mouse Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex
Keyboard Ducky Shine 1 - MX Brown
Software Windows 10
#13
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
5,631 (1.79/day)
Likes
2,003
Location
Manchester uk
System Name Quad GT evo V ,Ttevo
Processor Amd R5 2600X@4.1 ,FX8350 @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 ,Gigabyte 990X Gaming
Cooling 360EK extreme 360Tt rad all push/pull, cpu,NB/Vrm blocks all EK
Memory Corsair vengeance 16Gb 2933@16, @1600 cas8
Video Card(s) Rx vega 64 waterblockedEK,
Storage samsung 840(250OS), WD 1Tb+2Tb +3Tbgrn, 1tb seagate sshd hybrid(games)
Display(s) Samsung uea28"850R 4k freesync, LG 49" 4K 60hz ,Oculus
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic ,Custom(modded) thermaltake Kandalf
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi, Corsair ax1200
Mouse CM optane, no comment bad
Keyboard CM optane, asus but the worst free membrane one.
Software Win 10 Pro ,same
Benchmark Scores 15.69K best overall sandra so far 7703vega 3dmark timespy
#14
"Over a year ago, Nvidia launched the Pascal architecture, which is being used for the current generation of GeForce video cards. There has been a lot of talk and speculation lately about the future Volta architecture. However, the following GeForce series will not be based on this. According to recent reports, it concerns a further development of Pascal.

With the further development of Pascal architecture, Nvidia seems to choose a type of tick-tock strategy, as we know for example from Intel. This means, among other things, that we do not expect HBM2 memory on the future GeForce series, so the high-end cards should also have maximum GDDR5X video memory. However, the production process is slightly modified. Current chips are baked according to the 16 nm FinFET procedure of TSMC, this would be reduced to 12 nm. However, this is more an optimization of the current process rather than something new, which in this case we should not expect any miracles.
"

https://nl.hardware.info/nieuws/525...erie-wordt-doorontwikkeling-pascal-geen-volta
Not a surprise to me ,I called this out months ago , voltas for next Christmas not this one and it never was going to be, they're just putting it on pciex now for pro user's and the consumer version isn't even in play yet though likely has taped out a Engineering sample or two.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
3,075 (4.75/day)
Likes
2,232
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Turbo 6GB ~ 2139 Mhz / 9.4 Gbps
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
#15
Kepler does not stand up anymore because it is not a computational architecture.
Not sure about that , Kepler was fine architecturally speaking. Point is we had 2 generations of it and nothing major changed driver wise , on top of that when something like this happens the next generation which is a big step-up is pretty much guaranteed to put the previous one in the shadow in terms of driver optimizations.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
400 (0.16/day)
Likes
244
Location
Sweden
Processor Intel Core i7 5960X - 4.5 Ghz
Motherboard Asus X99-E WS
Cooling 360 Monsta + 360 ST30 | 9 White EK Vardar
Memory 32GB Corsair LPX 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3
Storage Intel 750 400GB, Intel 750 1.2TB
Display(s) Asus PG279Q | 2 x Dell U2412M
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo SE Black/White
Audio Device(s) Schiit Jotunheim - Xonar Essence One | Fostex TH-900, Fidelio X2 - KRK Rokit RP-6 G3
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i - Black/White Cablemod Sleeves
Mouse Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex
Keyboard Ducky Shine 1 - MX Brown
Software Windows 10
#16
Not sure about that , Kepler was fine architecturally speaking. Point is we had 2 generations of it and nothing major changed driver wise , on top of that when something like this happens the next generation which is a big step-up is pretty much guaranteed to put the previous one in the shadow in terms of driver optimizations.
No, Kepler is the least capable computational architechture. Fermi, Maxwell and Pascal are orders of magnitude better.

Nothing ever changed as drastically as AMDs driveroptimizations, and that is not because AMDs driver team is better but the other way around.

And having products not getting optimizations is nothing new either and absolutely nothing unique with Kepler. Don't know where this obsession started.

Not a surprise to me ,I called this out months ago , voltas for next Christmas not this one and it never was going to be, they're just putting it on pciex now for pro user's and the consumer version isn't even in play yet though likely has taped out a Engineering sample or two.
Well, it's not exactly a confirmation is it?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
5,631 (1.79/day)
Likes
2,003
Location
Manchester uk
System Name Quad GT evo V ,Ttevo
Processor Amd R5 2600X@4.1 ,FX8350 @ 4.6ghz
Motherboard Crosshair hero7 ,Gigabyte 990X Gaming
Cooling 360EK extreme 360Tt rad all push/pull, cpu,NB/Vrm blocks all EK
Memory Corsair vengeance 16Gb 2933@16, @1600 cas8
Video Card(s) Rx vega 64 waterblockedEK,
Storage samsung 840(250OS), WD 1Tb+2Tb +3Tbgrn, 1tb seagate sshd hybrid(games)
Display(s) Samsung uea28"850R 4k freesync, LG 49" 4K 60hz ,Oculus
Case Lianli p0-11 dynamic ,Custom(modded) thermaltake Kandalf
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi, Corsair ax1200
Mouse CM optane, no comment bad
Keyboard CM optane, asus but the worst free membrane one.
Software Win 10 Pro ,same
Benchmark Scores 15.69K best overall sandra so far 7703vega 3dmark timespy
#17
No, Kepler is the least capable computational architechture. Fermi, Maxwell and Pascal are orders of magnitude better.

Nothing ever changed as drastically as AMDs driveroptimizations, and that is not because AMDs driver team is better but the other way around.

And having products not getting optimizations is nothing new either and absolutely nothing unique with Kepler. Don't know where this obsession started.

Well, it's not exactly a confirmation is it?
No but ill still be right when they are released i assure you , i analysed the facts adequately ages ago ,like 6 months ago and the lead times for such architecture changes is such that i cant be wrong , Nvidia use of pr to deflate Amd releases has gone exactly as expected ,only big volta got shown off ,why because thats the main gpu they have been working on for release next , why , because their love child market is under attack big time , and not from Amd, yet ( instinct will change that) no feckin google and their tensor flow chips are stealing nvidias thunder in ai so they Needed a counter punch.
Also being realistic they didn't need to do consumer volta , we all agree their surely, i wont be buying pascal refresh though as I can't see it being worth it fiscally.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
3,075 (4.75/day)
Likes
2,232
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Turbo 6GB ~ 2139 Mhz / 9.4 Gbps
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
#18
And having products not getting optimizations is nothing new either and absolutely nothing unique with Kepler. Don't know where this obsession started.
The observation stems from Nvidia's tradition of making major revamps of it's architecture each 2 generations or so. While AMD dose not , their design philosophy dictates incremental improvements and small changes to a base design , because of this their drivers never showed any major improvement and probably will never do , but performance doesn't degrade either because of it.

Making major changes comes with the inevitable effect of putting later iterations of hardware on a back-burner more often with Nvidia than with AMD as a result. We can all agree Kepler falls short now , a particular title Doom shows this more than anything where a 780ti can get you 60fps at 1080 on ultra just so, while something like a 970 which is on par computationally speaking delivers way more than that. It may difficult to discern the reason for the loss in performance over time , but it's evident that most of it comes from lack of driver optimization. Not saying it's new but it's more pronounced here.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
400 (0.16/day)
Likes
244
Location
Sweden
Processor Intel Core i7 5960X - 4.5 Ghz
Motherboard Asus X99-E WS
Cooling 360 Monsta + 360 ST30 | 9 White EK Vardar
Memory 32GB Corsair LPX 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3
Storage Intel 750 400GB, Intel 750 1.2TB
Display(s) Asus PG279Q | 2 x Dell U2412M
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo SE Black/White
Audio Device(s) Schiit Jotunheim - Xonar Essence One | Fostex TH-900, Fidelio X2 - KRK Rokit RP-6 G3
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i - Black/White Cablemod Sleeves
Mouse Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex
Keyboard Ducky Shine 1 - MX Brown
Software Windows 10
#19
No but ill still be right when they are released i assure you , i analysed the facts adequately ages ago ,like 6 months ago and the lead times for such architecture changes is such that i cant be wrong , Nvidia use of pr to deflate Amd releases has gone exactly as expected ,only big volta got shown off ,why because thats the main gpu they have been working on for release next , why , because their love child market is under attack big time , and not from Amd, yet ( instinct will change that) no feckin google and their tensor flow chips are stealing nvidias thunder in ai so they Needed a counter punch.
Also being realistic they didn't need to do consumer volta , we all agree their surely, i wont be buying pascal refresh though as I can't see it being worth it fiscally.
Ofcourse, that's not what im saying either. I'm just saying that this is a rumor just like any other.


The observation stems from Nvidia's tradition of making major revamps of it's architecture each 2 generations or so. While AMD dose not , their design philosophy dictates incremental improvements and small changes to a base design , because of this their drivers never showed any major improvement and probably will never do , but performance doesn't degrade either because of it.

Making major changes comes with the inevitable effect of putting later iterations of hardware on a back-burner more often with Nvidia than with AMD as a result. We can all agree Kepler falls short now , a particular title Doom shows this more than anything where a 780ti can get you 60fps at 1080 on ultra just so, while something like a 970 which is on par computationally speaking delivers way more than that. It may difficult to discern the reason for the loss in performance over time , but it's evident that most of it comes from lack of driver optimization. Not saying it's new but it's more pronounced here.
They don't show additional improvement because that's not how their driver works at a fundamental level. It's already very efficient at what it does. The benefits they apply is on a game by game basis by making it run as it should.

AMD has a "problem" with not having the same driver and relies more on hardware to make their product work. So when you specifically have to tell a game what to do is where AMD get their gains. You are almost guaranteed not being able to use 100% of the performance because of it.

Again, a GTX 970 can do so much more than a 780 Ti could computationally. They are absolutely not "on par". There are no optimizations to be done since the end result is not worth it.
Have you tried developing with OpenCL/CUDA on Kepler versus Maxwell? The difference is night and day. As soon as compute is put on the GPU Kepler just gives up. (especially OpenCL, it's just trash)
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,295 (6.11/day)
Likes
8,182
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling XSPC RayStorm Neo, MCR220-Stack+MCR220+MCR320, D5-PWM+EK X-RES 140
Memory 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200 CL16
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's+AMD VEGA FE (sometimes)
Storage Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron
Keyboard Thermaltake Poseidon ZX
Software W10P
Benchmark Scores Zoom zoom mofo
#20
Again, a GTX 970 can do so much more than a 780 Ti could computationally. They are absolutely not "on par". There are no optimizations to be done since the end result is not worth it.
Have you tried developing with OpenCL/CUDA on Kepler versus Maxwell? The difference is night and day. As soon as compute is put on the GPU Kepler just gives up. (especially OpenCL, it's just trash)
I have to agree with this even in mining the cards have been a joke. I mean the 780ti pulls numbers similar to the 960, which wasn't exactly a good card.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
3,075 (4.75/day)
Likes
2,232
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Turbo 6GB ~ 2139 Mhz / 9.4 Gbps
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
#21
Again, a GTX 970 can do so much more than a 780 Ti could computationally. They are absolutely not "on par". There are no optimizations to be done since the end result is not worth it.
Have you tried developing with OpenCL/CUDA on Kepler versus Maxwell? The difference is night and day. As soon as compute is put on the GPU Kepler just gives up. (especially OpenCL, it's just trash)
We seem to talking about different things , I know Kepler falls short when it comes down to GPGPU. But that's not what I have been referring to , Kepler as in with anything Nvidia had works with no drawbacks for DirectX/OpenGL , as a matter of fact on OpenGL Nvidia is known to consistently outperform AMD on a regular basis. That's why I gave you the example with Doom which runs on OpenGL yet the performance is not what should have been with something like a 780ti. Poor CUDA and OpenCL performance it's due to lack of hardware scheduling but that doesn't matter remotely as much for games as some people might be led to believe.

I am referring strictly to gaming and the lack of driver optimization is evident to me. For GPGPU yes Kepler is inherently slower , but again that has hardly anything to do with the drivers.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
400 (0.16/day)
Likes
244
Location
Sweden
Processor Intel Core i7 5960X - 4.5 Ghz
Motherboard Asus X99-E WS
Cooling 360 Monsta + 360 ST30 | 9 White EK Vardar
Memory 32GB Corsair LPX 3000Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3
Storage Intel 750 400GB, Intel 750 1.2TB
Display(s) Asus PG279Q | 2 x Dell U2412M
Case Phanteks Enthoo Primo SE Black/White
Audio Device(s) Schiit Jotunheim - Xonar Essence One | Fostex TH-900, Fidelio X2 - KRK Rokit RP-6 G3
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i - Black/White Cablemod Sleeves
Mouse Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex
Keyboard Ducky Shine 1 - MX Brown
Software Windows 10
#22
We seem to talking about different things , I know Kepler falls short when it comes down to GPGPU. But that's not what I have been referring to , Kepler as in with anything Nvidia had works with no drawbacks for DirectX/OpenGL , as a matter of fact on OpenGL Nvidia is known to consistently outperform AMD on a regular basis. That's why I gave you the example with Doom which runs on OpenGL yet the performance is not what could have been with something like a 780ti.

I am referring strictly to gaming and the lack of driver optimization is evident to me. For GPGPU yes Kepler is inherently slower , but again that has hardly anything to do with the drivers.
OpenCL is used in all OpenGL-based games. Again, a feature Kepler is rubbish at.

If you need to run anything compute-related on the GPU. Kepler has a natural disadvantage.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2010
Messages
5,194 (1.79/day)
Likes
1,736
Processor Intel i7 950 @ 3.2GHz
Motherboard ASUS P6X58D-E
Cooling Corsair H50 push/pull
Memory Kingston HyperX 1600 8GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD 7970 OC
Storage Plextor M5P 128GB/WD Black 2x1TB,1x6TB/Seagate 1TB
Display(s) Panasonic TC-L32U3
Case Antec DF-85
Audio Device(s) Yamaha RX-V371 AVR
Power Supply XFX 850w Black Edition
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech K120
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
#23
Kinda strange to see AMD actually doing worse in the GPU market than they are in the CPU market lately. Their GPU lineup desperately needs something on par with Ryzen. Otherwise Nvidia will be content to sit on their complacency like Intel.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
3,075 (4.75/day)
Likes
2,232
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R7 1700X - 4.0 Ghz / 1.350V
Motherboard ASRock B450M Pro4
Cooling Scythe Katana 4 - 3x 120mm case fans
Memory 16GB - Corsair Vengeance LPX
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Turbo 6GB ~ 2139 Mhz / 9.4 Gbps
Storage 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Zalman R1
Power Supply 500W
#24
Kinda strange to see AMD actually doing worse in the GPU market than they are in the CPU market lately. Their GPU lineup desperately needs something on par with Ryzen. Otherwise Nvidia will be content to sit on their complacency like Intel.
It might get worse , cryptocurrency is screwing up massively GPU pricing and availability. Vega could barley make it to the average Joe that just wants a very fast card for gaming. And that's not going to help their reputation. Another reason to why AMD is stalling , they would be trading relevance and reputation for sales, mining wont last forever and right now they the reputation.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
2,256 (1.06/day)
Likes
1,920
Location
Jyväskylä, Finland
System Name SER
Processor Intel Core i7-5820K @ 4.5GHz
Motherboard Asus Rampage V Extreme
Cooling Custom loop
Memory 16GB G.Skill Value DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) GeForce GTX 980 @ 1500/1950MHz
Storage Intel 600p 256GB + Samsung 840 Pro 256GB + WD Green 500GB
Display(s) 3x 1920x1080
Case Corsair Carbide Air 740
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeAudio PCIe
Power Supply Super Flower Golden Green 500W
Mouse Logitech G400s
Keyboard Logitech G410
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Time Spy - 4845 Fire Strike - 13246
#25
It might get worse , cryptocurrency is screwing up massively GPU pricing and availability. Vega could barley make it to the average Joe that just wants a very fast card for gaming. And that's not going to help their reputation. Another reason to why AMD is stalling , they would be trading sales for reputation , mining wont last forever and right now they the reputation.
Reminds me about that similar toy money craziness few years ago.

I guess there's no need to upgrade from my 970 yet.
 
Top