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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6 GB

wolf

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snip... when the Vulkan API is used .... DirectX 12 in a proper manner .
Rise of the Tomb Raider is an awful attempt at DX12. Its shouldn't be considered that in the slightest.
So it's all about new API's yet we pick and choose which we like to argue for an architecture? mmm..

well @wolf after seeing your spec raid 0 with 4 ssd i realize that you understand everything about pc XD. RX480 is much future proof then 1060. almost all old radeon now kick ass with DX12 enabled
Your first statement is... well... at least you tried? clutching at straws tho.

As for buying a mid-range card today and using the "future proof" argument... The top end cards are the ones that will last the longest, not the mid range ones.

By the time the majority of games tested in reviews use these 'new gen" API's the two cards in question here will be obsoleted by at least one generation. This is if we're talking about high-to-maximum in game settings, 1080-1440p. All we have to compare is the here and now, all these "but it will shine in the future" comments are a pretty average argument for them. A card might last you 3 years of good gameplay, at a stretch 5 if you're willing to sacrifice a lot of eye candy. By then the price/performance landscape will be completely different all over again.

Generally if you game a hec of a lot, the best sort of value (I find) is in a high end card once every ~2 gens, or a upper/midrange card every generation, to enjoy the games in the here and now.

i'd love to revisit this thread in 2-3 years and see how well an RX480 / GTX1060 performs in the games that are the latest and greatest, my guess is nobody will care.
 
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Are there no new drivers released? 1060 using the release drivers of 1080 and 1070? I would have expected some new ones like they did before for support of new hardware but it seems that the initial pascal drivers already contain it.
 
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This card might possibly be the worst purchase you could do at the moment. No doubt it has the performance advantage over the RX480.... in DX11. In every DX12 & Vulkan title I've seen benchmarked, the 1060 is about 20% slower than the 480. Considering the 480 runs pretty well much every DX11 title comfortably at 1080p, and pretty well much every AAA game being released this year will be DX12\Vulkan, I see no reason why you would buy a 1060 over a 480. There's a reason why Nvidia reviewer kits only had DX11 and usually Gameworks titles in it, as quite simply, the 480 is going to age a lot better, where as people on 1060's would be looking for upgrades by the start of next year.
 
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This card might possibly be the worst purchase you could do at the moment. No doubt it has the performance advantage over the RX480.... in DX11. In every DX12 & Vulkan title I've seen benchmarked, the 1060 is about 20% slower than the 480. Considering the 480 runs pretty well much every DX11 title comfortably at 1080p, and pretty well much every AAA game being released this year will be DX12\Vulkan, I see no reason why you would buy a 1060 over a 480. There's a reason why Nvidia reviewer kits only had DX11 and usually Gameworks titles in it, as quite simply, the 480 is going to age a lot better, where as people on 1060's would be looking for upgrades by the start of next year.
In reviews I've seen GTX 1060 is on par with RX 480 in Ashes of singularity and TWW (both AMD sponsored), in Rise of the tomb raider(with latest patch) 20% faster, in Hitman 10% slower and in doom(Vulkan) 20% slower. So it seems like they are on par in new APIs but GTX 1060 is cooler, quieter and more efficient, plus many custom 1060s are selling for just 250$(just 10$ more than reference 480).
 

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Well, I ordered a non-reference card from Amazon for $279.00 today. Which is cheaper than I can find any RX 480s in stock for.

Nice review, btw.

/edit - the kudos for the review.
 
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the 480 is going to age a lot better, where as people on 1060's would be looking for upgrades by the start of next year.
....the only business that wants to only sell you something once is the funeral homes.
 
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yada yada yada... how many DX12/Vulkan bounded games are out there? I can even count them with my eyes closed FFS... over here in Malaysia, aftermarket versions of the RX480 4GB made under ASUS & MSI are selling way more expensive than Zotac's newly released GTX1060 AMP Edition. for the same price as a 8GB reference RX480, the GTX1060 non-FE is a more worthy investment in the long run IMO. Won't need to worry about it turning into a box of heated element.
 
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So it's all about new API's yet we pick and choose which we like to argue for an architecture? mmm..



Your first statement is... well... at least you tried? clutching at straws tho.

As for buying a mid-range card today and using the "future proof" argument... The top end cards are the ones that will last the longest, not the mid range ones.

By the time the majority of games tested in reviews use these 'new gen" API's the two cards in question here will be obsoleted by at least one generation. This is if we're talking about high-to-maximum in game settings, 1080-1440p. All we have to compare is the here and now, all these "but it will shine in the future" comments are a pretty average argument for them. A card might last you 3 years of good gameplay, at a stretch 5 if you're willing to sacrifice a lot of eye candy. By then the price/performance landscape will be completely different all over again.

Generally if you game a hec of a lot, the best sort of value (I find) is in a high end card once every ~2 gens, or a upper/midrange card every generation, to enjoy the games in the here and now.

i'd love to revisit this thread in 2-3 years and see how well an RX480 / GTX1060 performs in the games that are the latest and greatest, my guess is nobody will care.
No because Rise of Tomb Raider only gains 1FPS on the 1060 and the RX480 when using DX12 over DX11. If you know how DX12 works you know that shouldn't be the case. So it is a case of DX12 not being utilized.

Nvidia has struggled with DX12 implementation. Not sure why but it kind of irks me as an Nvidia user. But the whole Vram issue with the GTX 970 kind of irked me as well. Nvidia does get away with a bunch of crap because they are sitting in the number one spot and pretty much dominate. And just for clarity my main tablet is an Nvidia Shield tablet, my set top box is an Nvidia Shield Box, and my gpu is a GTX 970. So I am clearly pretty invested into Nvidia.

There is no reason a mid range GPU shouldn't be able to stay relevant, especially considering mid range has jumped to the $250-$400 range. I think my last AMD (ATI) card was an X800 XL that I paid like $179 for from zipzoomfly back in the day right after release (I don't remember how but that was a killer deal on the card at the time think it might have been in a brown box maybe), I think it was a Powercolor and that thing rocked in my main system for a long time and really the only reason it had to be changed out was because of some of the API's being used in games like Bioshock. But back then was able to play it thanks to some modders work arounds because the card was powerful enough to play the game just didn't support the API's at an architecture level. I have read that Nvidia supports most of all the DX12 instructions but actually not all of them. Though I never read if that changed or not with the release of the 1080, 1070, or 1060.

Most of the time I buy midrange because it is the best bang for buck. High end usually doesn't pay off because the dollar per performance isn't justified. They are always the best cards but you pay way more per dollar for each fps.

DX12 seems to be here to stay. Granted with even ultrawides we have already seen in at CES higher res screens that are like 5K I believe for ultrawide and the media companies don't plan on doing most of their broadcast updates until 8K is released as they don't want to upgrade so close after upgrading to 1080P. Granted if you play at 1080 or even 1440 you have probably been pretty content with the graphics card you had previously if you invested in a decent one. The only reason I am considering upgrading is because I want to move to higher res ultrawide and also like something with at least 8GB of Vram. Biggest mistake Nvidia had with the GTX 970 was the 4GB that didn't even run at full speed for the full 4GB.
 
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@dlgh7 the GTX970, by most for me is a 50/50 thing, but it still performs decently on most games at 1080p.
 
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Higher performance, more efficient, but not worth the extra cost over the RX480 IMO.
uses 50w less power while gaming
5 degree cooler while gaming
gpu is 6% more overclockable
memory is 5% more overclockable
better driver support
phsyx support

and it's nvidia...

so yeah... it worth every penny to get this card then the rx480 !
 
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No because Rise of Tomb Raider only gains 1FPS on the 1060 and the RX480 when using DX12 over DX11. If you know how DX12 works you know that shouldn't be the case. So it is a case of DX12 not being utilized.

Nvidia has struggled with DX12 implementation. Not sure why but it kind of irks me as an Nvidia user. But the whole Vram issue with the GTX 970 kind of irked me as well. Nvidia does get away with a bunch of crap because they are sitting in the number one spot and pretty much dominate. And just for clarity my main tablet is an Nvidia Shield tablet, my set top box is an Nvidia Shield Box, and my gpu is a GTX 970. So I am clearly pretty invested into Nvidia.

There is no reason a mid range GPU shouldn't be able to stay relevant, especially considering mid range has jumped to the $250-$400 range. I think my last AMD (ATI) card was an X800 XL that I paid like $179 for from zipzoomfly back in the day right after release (I don't remember how but that was a killer deal on the card at the time think it might have been in a brown box maybe), I think it was a Powercolor and that thing rocked in my main system for a long time and really the only reason it had to be changed out was because of some of the API's being used in games like Bioshock. But back then was able to play it thanks to some modders work arounds because the card was powerful enough to play the game just didn't support the API's at an architecture level. I have read that Nvidia supports most of all the DX12 instructions but actually not all of them. Though I never read if that changed or not with the release of the 1080, 1070, or 1060.

Most of the time I buy midrange because it is the best bang for buck. High end usually doesn't pay off because the dollar per performance isn't justified. They are always the best cards but you pay way more per dollar for each fps.

DX12 seems to be here to stay. Granted with even ultrawides we have already seen in at CES higher res screens that are like 5K I believe for ultrawide and the media companies don't plan on doing most of their broadcast updates until 8K is released as they don't want to upgrade so close after upgrading to 1080P. Granted if you play at 1080 or even 1440 you have probably been pretty content with the graphics card you had previously if you invested in a decent one. The only reason I am considering upgrading is because I want to move to higher res ultrawide and also like something with at least 8GB of Vram. Biggest mistake Nvidia had with the GTX 970 was the 4GB that didn't even run at full speed for the full 4GB.
You're in that crowd that doesn't understand DX12 and business. I don't mean that offensively, I mean it as a person who sees the difference between business and design.
You can't say that RotTR doesn't use DX12 properly, anymore than you can Hitman does. DX12 uses various methods to run and it uses those methods depending on the development. I posted a link in another thread, way back where the Hitman devs allowed the AMD guys to code Async to the gunnels, to get the most out of AMD hardware. They knew doing that (with AMD'S proprietary ACE's) would hamper Nvidia.
Likewise, Nvidia had more involvement with RotTR.
The curve ball is AotS, where the 1060 compares favourably to the 480.

Nvidia dropped compute hardware after Fermi to focus on efficiency. It's ironic that way back then, the heavy compute prowess was often questioned by reviewers as not being necessary for gaming. It was as if Nvidia had brought HPC to the desktop.
AMD plugged on with compute (that's why it has way more hardware and higher power draw than Nvidia equivalent) and moved to implement Mantle to utilise it's GCN.
AMD played the very long game and it's finally coming to bear fruit but the first trees are only just appearing. DX11 is still around. In fact go back a year and plenty of folks of a certain persuasion insisted DX12 would be the major force and in most games by now.
Nvidia competes competently without the compute hardware by using refined speed, rather than hardware grunt. Moreover, that hardware still hinders DX11 utilisation so forward looking isn't so great when DX12 isn't the standard model.

Finally, revisiting devs. It doesn't matter who has what benefits, when AMD or Nvidia get involved in a game, rest assured it won't generally suit the other side.
 
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and it's nvidia...

so yeah... it worth every penny to get this card then the rx480 !
Better driver support hahaha oh where have you been lately?
Physx support... oh man... yeah thats totally a selling point...some floating orbs in a handful of games, rousing endorsement that fo sho...
Its Nvidia...yeah I would sooner say thats a negative then anything else.
5 degrees cooler..yeah..k.

On the rest sure, although overclockablility is such a weird thing to praise a card for, I dont even know why we have it to begin with.
Why not push a card to its very limits out of the box? why do we (the consumer) have to do that? if a card in general is very overclockable.. does that not mean the factory specs are just too low?
 
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PhysX plugin for 3DS and Maya are bomb though.
 
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On the rest sure, although overclockablility is such a weird thing to praise a card for, I dont even know why we have it to begin with.
Why not push a card to its very limits out of the box? why do we (the consumer) have to do that? if a card in general is very overclockable.. does that not mean the factory specs are just too low?
Factory overclocks often leave a lot on the table, but not always as some chips cannot get much higher without instability.
Part of that is warranty long life concerns, but the other part is to allow enthusiasts the experience of discovering how far their cards can go.
 
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long story short IMO, Nvidia is good on the software front with not so stellar hardware while AMD wins outright in terms of raw firepower but brought down by not-so-polished software. If what @ShurikN says that there's little or no gains of using DX12 on both camps is true, means both camps has it's pros & cons in DX12. The only thing left to look at is the developers as they are the deciding factor. Hopefully next year's list of DX12 powered games will put this Polaris vs Pascal debate to rest, which I think isn't going to stop until one of them says they had enough.
 
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long story short IMO, Nvidia is good on the software front with not so stellar hardware while AMD wins outright in terms of raw firepower but brought down by not-so-polished software. If what @ShurikN says that there's little or no gains of using DX12 on both camps is true, means both camps has it's pros & cons in DX12. The only thing left to look at is the developers as they are the deciding factor. Hopefully next year's list of DX12 powered games will put this Polaris vs Pascal debate to rest, which I think isn't going to stop until one of them says they had enough.
ive said that only for RotTR, other games show fps boosts for both amd and nv. Thats why I stated that TR is a bad example of DX12 benchmark because it's not doing what the api is supppsed to
 
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Physx support... oh man... yeah thats totally a selling point...some floating orbs in a handful of games, rousing endorsement that fo sho...
Just a sidenote on this. Almost every game that uses Gameworks is using PhysX/FleX in some form. They do not usually require a GPU for it though.

ive said that only for RotTR, other games show fps boosts for both amd and nv. Thats why I stated that TR is a bad example of DX12 benchmark because it's not doing what the api is supppsed to
What are they supposed to do then, since you apperantly know that?

The same thing could be said against a lot of games that uses DX 11 "because they don't perform". That's not how it works.
 
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What are they supposed to do then, since you apperantly know that?

The same thing could be said against a lot of games that uses DX 11 "because they don't perform". That's not how it works.
Rise of the TR has both 11 and 12, so you can compare two apis and come to a conclusion that the are almost no benefits (on ALL cards). Unlike DX11 only game where you don't have anything to compare it to.
 
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Rise of the TR has both 11 and 12, so you can compare two apis and come to a conclusion that the are almost no benefits (on ALL cards). Unlike DX11 only game where you don't have anything to compare it to.
Does that automatically make it a bad example? Asynchronous compute is not the be-all end-all of DirectX 12, there is more to it than that.

Im not sure I agree with you on that one, AMD got quite the performance increase with the latest patch. Especially the average framerate.
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/rise_of_the_tomb_raider_directx_12_performance_update/5

There is a lot of quite interesting information in 3Dmarks latest press release regarding the debacle about async and how it works.
http://www.futuremark.com/pressreleases/a-closer-look-at-asynchronous-compute-in-3dmark-time-spy
 
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Factory overclocks often leave a lot on the table, but not always as some chips cannot get much higher without instability.
Part of that is warranty long life concerns, but the other part is to allow enthusiasts the experience of discovering how far their cards can go.
Non of this answer my questions though.
If factory overclocks leave a lot on the table....then why dont they just push the clocks further?
Some chips cannot do it? ok...leave those lower then, I realize there is a problem with pricing if one card runs faster then the other, but if all cards consistently can be bumped 10% in an area, then why does it not get that speed to begin with?
Long life concerns, so does the more expensive EVGA FTW edition cards that are clocked higher last less long then the standard cards? If so do we know how significantly less?
The experience of discovering, so thats it then?, we all just want to needlessly tinker when that factory could do that for us really?

Just a sidenote on this. Almost every game that uses Gameworks is using PhysX/FleX in some form. They do not usually require a GPU for it though.
aka my point still stands.
 
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Rise of the TR has both 11 and 12, so you can compare two apis and come to a conclusion that the are almost no benefits (on ALL cards). Unlike DX11 only game where you don't have anything to compare it to.
The DirectX12 implementation in RotTR seems to benefit more on lower end system and in the graphically-heavy area of the game.
Here's my benchmark result running my GTX 970 with FX 6300 at stock clock (slow CPU + mainstream GPU) :

DX11 :

cpu-stock-dx11.png

DX12 :

cpu-stock-dx12.png

On the first and second benchmark scene, the performance gain is not big but it's still noticeably smoother when running DX12 because of better min and avg FPS, BUT look at the heaviest benchmark scene (3rd scene, Geothermal Valley), the improvement on minimum FPS is huge, almost twice from before, and the average FPS also improved a lot on this 3rd scene. With DX12 I also notice the much smoother and fluid gameplay when playing the game, FPS dips is a lot less compared to DX11 version.

So why reviewer didn't notice this? Because most of them test the game with high end CPU, their CPU is fast enough to handle the game so they won't really see the performance improvement.

I found that ComputerBase did a review with several CPUs (2 graphs from the bottom), and their results are similar to mine, performance gain is much more noticeable on a heavier scene (Soviet-Anlage/Soviet Installation is heavier than Basislager/Siberian Wilderness) AND also more noticeable on low end CPUS (i3 4330 and FX 6300).
 
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Non of this answer my questions though.
If factory overclocks leave a lot on the table....then why dont they just push the clocks further?
Some chips cannot do it? ok...leave those lower then, I realize there is a problem with pricing if one card runs faster then the other, but if all cards consistently can be bumped 10% in an area, then why does it not get that speed to begin with?
Long life concerns, so does the more expensive EVGA FTW edition cards that are clocked higher last less long then the standard cards? If so do we know how significantly less?
The experience of discovering, so thats it then?, we all just want to needlessly tinker when that factory could do that for us really?

aka my point still stands.
Using your example of EVGA FTW, the chips are sorted to be stable at that factory OC, while many of them are not capable of even 50Mhz more. This was true of even the Classified chips. These cards are only warrantied to run at the factory overclocks, with no promise of any further overhead. It's not as you say, usual or consistent to have a 10% increase manually, especially if the card is already factory OC'd.
The life of an overclocked chip that is OC varies due to the silicon quality. In the case of CPUs, the expected longevity of those chips are projected on stock speeds, which is why often a manual OC voids the warranty.
The experience of discovering is the fun part of the Silicon Lottery, as some chips will manually OC much further than others, while some hardly at all. It is a thrill to win the Lottery and get an uber chip that is stable as super high clock speeds.
 
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Benchmark Scores meh... feel me on the battle field!
....I figured as much.... 1060 sli beats a 1080...... in Ashes so far....


I expect more reviewers will be exploring Dx12 potential to combine any two cards as more game support arrives or nvdia/amd blocks it......
 
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