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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Possible Specs Surface—160 W Power, Debuts AD106 Silicon

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The problem with pricing is that if everyone keeps the same mindset as you, in a few years, x60 gpus will cost $800. And it would be seen as "normal"
RTX 2080 Ti 11GB MSRP: $1000
RTX 3080 Ti 12GB MSRP: $1200
RTX 4070 Ti 12GB MSRP: $800

 
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RTX 2080 Ti 11GB MSRP: $1000
RTX 3080 Ti 12GB MSRP: $1200
RTX 4070 Ti 12GB MSRP: $800

RTX 3080 10 GB $700
RTX 6080 XT GB $650
 
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RTX 2080 Ti 11GB MSRP: $1000
RTX 3080 Ti 12GB MSRP: $1200
RTX 4070 Ti 12GB MSRP: $800
The 2080 ti and 3080 ti were horribly overpriced cards and are ridiculous to compare with anything related to value. The 4070 ti as compared to the 3080 is roughly zero generational uplift and is bad value yet people such as yourself are going out of their way to make it look good when all that does is normalize amd and nvidia's cash grab and keep prices high.
 

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We are at a critical turning point here. Either we take it up the ass or we fight back. I have been around for decades and I know gamers through and through and they usually choose to take it up the ass so that's most likely what will happen.
 
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We are at a critical turning point here. Either we take it up the ass or we fight back. I have been around for decades and I know gamers through and through and they usually choose to take it up the ass so that's most likely what will happen.
Not only will they take it up the ass, they'll promote taking it up the ass like it makes sense at every available opportunity and act like there's something wrong with you if you disagree.
 
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Benchmark Scores Benchmarks in 2023?

That ASUS is $850. Reference 3080 (shown in this graph) was $700.

Which means the 4070 Ti is 22% faster at a 21% higher price. Performance per dollar is basically the same, on a card with a die that is 47% the size of the one used in the 3080, with a tiny little memory bus, much simpler PCB design and VRAM capacity larger by just 20%.

And this is almost 2.5 years after the release of the 3080. The manufacturing cost has not increased by a factor of 2.13 to justify the same performance per dollar!
 
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That ASUS is $850. Reference 3080 (shown in this graph) was $700.

Which means the 4070 Ti is 22% faster at a 21% higher price. Performance per dollar is basically the same, on a card with a die that is 47% the size of the one used in the 3080, with a tiny little memory bus, much simpler PCB design and VRAM capacity larger by just 20%.

And this is almost 2.5 years after the release of the 3080. The manufacturing cost has not increased by a factor of 2.13 to justify the same performance per dollar!
Asus TUF GAMING GeForce RTX 4070 Ti 12GB Video Card $799.99
 
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Benchmark Scores Benchmarks in 2023?
Ok, I am sorry, 22% faster at a 14% higher price. That changes things completely.
 
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RTX 2080 Ti 11GB MSRP: $1000
RTX 3080 Ti 12GB MSRP: $1200
RTX 4070 Ti 12GB MSRP: $800
You're REALLY cherry-picking this aren't you because you very cleverly stopped right after the cost of cards went to 4-figures. I don't know if you're just insulting our intelligence or just don't know any better (probably the former). Not all of us are fooled though because some of us (specifically me) have been building PCs since the 80s. Let's take a look even further back shall we?

GTX 1080 Ti: $699
GTX 980 Ti: $649
GTX 780 Ti: $699
GTX 680: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 480: $499
GTX 280: $649
9800 GTX: $299
8800 GTX: $599
7800 GTX: $599

Funny how you managed to avoid showing that $300 jump from the GTX 1080 Ti to the RTX 2080 Ti, eh? Well, hiding the truth doesn't change reality, it just makes you dishonest and then nobody takes your words seriously. I know that I won't because what you just did is a marketing trick which means there's a strong chance that you're a paid shill for nVidia. Even if you're not, I just turned any credibility you ever had to dust.

We are at a critical turning point here. Either we take it up the ass or we fight back. I have been around for decades and I know gamers through and through and they usually choose to take it up the ass so that's most likely what will happen.
Not THIS gamer because I've been around for decades as well. It's the young noobs that don't know better.
 
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You're REALLY cherry-picking this aren't you because you very cleverly stopped right after the cost of cards went to 4-figures. I don't know if you're just insulting our intelligence or just don't know any better (probably the former). Not all of us are fooled though because some of us (specifically me) have been building PCs since the 80s. Let's take a look even further back shall we?

GTX 1080 Ti: $699
GTX 980 Ti: $649
GTX 780 Ti: $699
GTX 680: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 480: $499
GTX 280: $649
9800 GTX: $299
8800 GTX: $599
7800 GTX: $599

Funny how you managed to avoid showing that $300 jump from the GTX 1080 Ti to the RTX 2080 Ti, eh? Well, hiding the truth doesn't change reality, it just makes you dishonest and then nobody takes your words seriously. I know that I won't because what you just did is a marketing trick which means there's a strong chance that you're a paid shill for nVidia. Even if you're not, I just turned any credibility you ever had to dust.


Not THIS gamer because I've been around for decades as well. It's the young noobs that don't know better.
I went back two generations. Should I have went back further?
 
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I went back two generations. Should I have went back further?
More importantly, why were you comparing the 4070 TI to the X080 TI series?

4070 TI - $799 MSRP
3070 TI - $599 MSRP
2070 Super - $499 MSRP
1070 TI - $399 MSRP
 
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New generations are supposed to improve the performance per dollar, or why do they come out with more than the flagships?

The 780 vs the 980 was a 38% increase in performance for a $100 price CUT. The 1080 was a $50 price increase for a 50% increase. The 2080 was a 39% increase for a $100 premium, and the 3080 was the same price for a 63% jump in performance. Now the 4080 is 42% more powerful for five hundred more dollars. Where is the technological progression? Tech is supposed to come down in price/performance over time.
 
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New generations are supposed to improve the performance per dollar, or why do they come out with more than the flagships?

The 780 vs the 980 was a 38% increase in performance for a $100 price CUT. The 1080 was a $50 price increase for a 50% increase. The 2080 was a 39% increase for a $100 premium, and the 3080 was the same price for a 63% jump in performance. Now the 4080 is 42% more powerful for five hundred more dollars. Where is the technological progression? Tech is supposed to come down in price/performance over time.
53 more FPS. Meanwhile inflation is rising.
 
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Meanwhile inflation is rising.
So while my disposable income is shrinking, I should be buying a GPU with the same price/performance as the last generation when both are at MSRP? Or should I just buy the last gen for a discount instead of paying a premium?

Value is the thing that is important, except to halo product buyers. The trouble is, now the XX70 TI level has become a halo product.
 
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So while my disposable income is shrinking, I should be buying a GPU with the same price/performance as the last generation when both are at MSRP? Or should I just buy the last gen for a discount instead of paying a premium?

Value is the thing that is important, except to halo product buyers. The trouble is, now the XX70 TI level has become a halo product.
Get 'em while they're hot. Save yourself a whopping $130 and btw anyone who thinks the 3070 Ti 8GB offers the same performance as the 4070 Ti 12GB probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.

https://pcpartpicker.com/search/?q=rtx+3070+ti
RTX 3070 Ti 8GB $669.99
 
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Get 'em while they're hot. Save yourself a whopping $130 and btw anyone who thinks the 3070 Ti 8GB offers the same performance as the 4070 Ti 12GB probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.
Were I in the market, I would save even more by getting a 6900 XT. However, I am not. Also, my entire post was about value, not performance. Behold, the proof of all of what I have said can be seen in W1zzard's review:
1674698705966.png
 
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You're REALLY cherry-picking this aren't you because you very cleverly stopped right after the cost of cards went to 4-figures. I don't know if you're just insulting our intelligence or just don't know any better (probably the former). Not all of us are fooled though because some of us (specifically me) have been building PCs since the 80s. Let's take a look even further back shall we?

GTX 1080 Ti: $699
GTX 980 Ti: $649
GTX 780 Ti: $699
GTX 680: $499
GTX 580: $499
GTX 480: $499
GTX 280: $649
9800 GTX: $299
8800 GTX: $599
7800 GTX: $599

Funny how you managed to avoid showing that $300 jump from the GTX 1080 Ti to the RTX 2080 Ti, eh? Well, hiding the truth doesn't change reality, it just makes you dishonest and then nobody takes your words seriously. I know that I won't because what you just did is a marketing trick which means there's a strong chance that you're a paid shill for nVidia. Even if you're not, I just turned any credibility you ever had to dust.


Not THIS gamer because I've been around for decades as well. It's the young noobs that don't know better.

I wouldn't include the 9800 GTX in your list. It was a slightly cheaper, rebranded 8800 GTS 512 card.

The 8800 GTS 512 and 9800 GTX were on par with the 8800GTX. The top end 9 series from Nvidia was just basically a rebrand top end 8800 series. I think it was the most stagnant of all generational changes in my GPU history that I can remember.
 
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Were I in the market, I would save even more by getting a 6900 XT. However, I am not. Also, my entire post was about value, not performance. Behold, the proof of all of what I have said can be seen in W1zzard's review:
View attachment 280866
RX 6900 XT 16GB Video Card MSRP $999.00
RTX 4070 Ti 12GB Video Card MSRP $799.99

 
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RX 6900 XT 16GB Video Card MSRP $999.00
Not any more. Either 699$ or 669$

Ok, I am sorry, 22% faster at a 14% higher price. That changes things completely.
I don't think we're getting anywhere with this discussion. The data is all in the review and each one of us is "nitpicking" the portion that suits our argument, and it's basically all true.
Some people believe that it's fair to compare the 4070Ti to something 22% slower (because similar price/perf) others think it's worth comparing to the 3090 and see better performance for less money in the 4070Ti. Both are technically correct.
At the end of the day, we're far from getting the BEST perf/$ uplift we had in the past but there it is some uplift.
 
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I wouldn't include the 9800 GTX in your list. It was a slightly cheaper, rebranded 8800 GTS 512 card.

The 8800 GTS 512 and 9800 GTX were on par with the 8800GTX. The top end 9 series from Nvidia was just basically a rebrand top end 8800 series. I think it was the most stagnant of all generational changes in my GPU history that I can remember.
I know but I put it in there for the sake of completion. At least I didn't use the 9800 GTX+ or GTS 250 re-branding! :D

IIRC, there actually was a small difference between the 8800 GTX and 9800 GTX but I think that it was mostly the fact that the 9000-series was PCI-Express v2.0 while the 8000-series was PCI-Express v1.x. The stagnation at the time was because the 8800 GTX just annihilated the HD 2900 XT and was even faster than the HD 3870. There wouldn't be serious competition from ATi until they fixed the TeraScale architecture with HD 4000-series. That's when the HD 4870x2 knocked the GTX 280 off of its perch as the fastest card in the world. Jensen had just sat back and let his R&D department work its butt off to have their next product ready and waiting for ATi's response while just refreshing the G80 to the G92 with the new interface.

That's why nVidia was able to react so quickly to the HD 4870x2 with the GTX 295. I think that nVidia expected to keep one step ahead of ATi in this way. However, just like ATi flubbed early TeraScale at the worst possible time, when nVidia had created the G80, nVidia flubbed the GF100 at the worst possible time. This is because ATi released their Evergreen HD 5000-series and it just obliterated everything that nVidia had at the time.

Guru3D's Hilbert Hagedoorn's review of the Radeon HD 5970 (code name Hemlock) had the funniest paragraph that I've ever read in a tech review. I actually laughed my butt off reading his article because I'd never seen someone say something like this before (or since for that matter) in a tech review:
"(Tom Clancy's) HAWX is very lenient towards ATI cards thanks to DX10.1, but with so much brute power, NVIDIA has been working nervously to optimize their drivers. And as such the more recent drivers make the GeForce cards much more competitive. As such the GTX 295 pushes 42 FPS at 2560x1600 with 4xAA (on average), but the Radeon HD 5970 brutally sodomizes the GTX 295 here with nearly doubled up performance."

Let me help you with the imagery...
EVGA GeForce GTX 295 before the HD 5970:

HD 5970:

GTX 295 after the HD 5970 had done its "brutal giving of the sword":

"Yes, it's childish and stupid, but then, so is high school!"
- Ferris Bueller, 1986 :roll:
 
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Were I in the market, I would save even more by getting a 6900 XT.
For that matter, you'd do even better with a 6800 XT. The 6900 XT was never supposed to be a good value. :D

That ASUS is $850. Reference 3080 (shown in this graph) was $700.

Which means the 4070 Ti is 22% faster at a 21% higher price. Performance per dollar is basically the same, on a card with a die that is 47% the size of the one used in the 3080, with a tiny little memory bus, much simpler PCB design and VRAM capacity larger by just 20%.

And this is almost 2.5 years after the release of the 3080. The manufacturing cost has not increased by a factor of 2.13 to justify the same performance per dollar!
Actually, because this is 2½ years later, the cost of manufacturing will have gone DOWN. As any technology matures, it becomes cheaper. This includes silicon fabrication because otherwise, with the tiny nodes that we have today, CPUs would cost literally MILLIONS of dollars. TSMC doesn't charge nVidia "a price per transistor" but that seems to be the pricing structure that nVidia has adopted for consumers.
 
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Actually, because this is 2½ years later, the cost of manufacturing will have gone DOWN.
This is where things get weird. Where I live 3070s and 3080s are still being sold at near (and over) launch MSRP.

So to me:
  • costs haven't gone down (a lot of raw materials price increased), which would explain the current gen high costs as well
  • all the cards (or at least the gpu "chip") were all manufactured 2 years ago when the production costs were high, so margins are still "thin".
  • Nvidia are greedy (which every company is)
 
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