Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260

[Steevo]

It was revealed as misinformation spread by the article's author. It's the same guy doing what he always does. Hell, his website name even hints at how credible he is. 'Semi Accurate'. However he provides exactly what the red oriented fan likes to see even if he's proven wrong, most times within days. As such his crap is usually plastered all over the forums with many an AMD / ATI fan gobbling it right up. Don't get me wrong, Nvidia fans have their vices too.

As proof of my claims, the only proof of his claims provided in each article are previous articles written by him. Each of these earlier articles are without solid or concrete proof, only providing articles written earlier yet by him as proof. When you read the things he writes as proof of his claims, the only way you could really reach his conclusion is if you took the most wild or sensational thing happening and assume that happens.

This man isn't a journalist, he's an entertainer.

Entertainment for the masses

The facts we need:

1.How much do these cards cost to make?

2.How much does Nvidia need to sell these cards for to make a profit?

Both you and I know we will never have a concrete on those figures, after the last 9 years in retail/sales I know how flexible the "rigid" prices are. If they pay $40 for a cards components and sell it retail for $150 they are not making enough for the sales volume generated, they jsut need to move slightly damaged product, and pay for their R&D costs. I have a feeling most of these company make more on the crap they shovel out, ATI still making a 9XXX series card? Old dies still in use, old memory they probably bought as a closeout, same for Nvidia. Tehy make money off old tech and the last generation and the peopel buying a $60 card that cost $10 to make and retail old bad chips that failed the high end, old memory, and cheap components.

 

[El Fiendo]

I'll admit that I didn't read most of your post. Nvidia isn't spending money on R+D right now? You forgot about drivers, they don't just write themselves. This is all money that needs to be spent to compete in this industry. Did you read my first post about GT200 being one and a half old tech on a die shrink? It can't be selling for too much of a lose. Nvidia just isn't seeing the obscene prices that they would like and I don't believe this "news".

Nvidia is spending on R+D now. But as per kid41212003 at the top of the page, I'm talking GTX 285 vs ATI new models and how they probably don't cost more. That has nothing to do with the research costs of Fermi. Also, as for drivers, both companies have to write those so I'm not sure why you included it.

Note that I'm not saying NVIDIA produces their cards cheaper than ATI, I'm disputing kid41212003 when he says NVIDIA will go bankrupt trying to compete on pricing. Both companies are probably in about as deep into costs as one another. Isn't ATI / AMD still on shaky ground financially anyways?

Entertainment for the masses

What's worse is I'm starting to suspect he's one of the internet's greatest trolls and everyone has been eating out of his hands all along. If you look around the internet he is infamous after all.

 

[dir_d]

I don't buy cards just because of performance/price and i think there a other ppl like me who likes other things like brand, good drivers, style, design, color, marketing etc...even if ATI is on top of High end market this means nothing to me cause i can play the same games with a guy with a HD5870 with my GTX285 and Dx11 games will be out no time soon sou i think nvidia has the time to work on fermi the way they want and belive me the FERMI will rock like all nvidia high end cards...

Your kidding right?

 

[kid41212003]

Nvidia is spending on R+D now. But as per kid41212003 at the top of the page, I'm talking GTX 285 vs ATI new models and how they probably don't cost more. That has nothing to do with the research costs of Fermi. Also, as for drivers, both companies have to write those so I'm not sure why you included it.

Note that I'm not saying NVIDIA produces their cards cheaper than ATI, I'm disputing kid41212003 when he says NVIDIA will go bankrupt trying to compete on pricing. Both companies are probably in about as deep into costs as one another. Isn't ATI / AMD still on shaky ground financially anyways?

You misunderstood my posts. I didn't say anything relate to Fermi or NVIDIA will go bankrupt, what I meant is more about the quality and performance of products IF NVIDIA decide to use cheap parts to reduce the costs of the current gen cards, and ruin their reputation.

It's pretty much what I "think", I tried to point out some "points", like why NVIDIA still haven't reduce the price of their cards. It "sounds" like they couldn't, because if they sell it it any lower they won't able to make any profits.

These are just my thoughts, no hard facts.

 

[MK4512]

Larrabee is a bigger disaster than GT300.

Nvidia isn't going anywhere. GT200 is what one and a half year old tech on a die shrink? They can't be loseing too much money on that line up.

By a small amount!

Like they already do.

I don't buy cards just because of performance/price and i think there a other ppl like me who likes other things like brand, good drivers, style, design, color, marketing etc...even if ATI is on top of High end market this means nothing to me cause i can play the same games with a guy with a HD5870 with my GTX285 and Dx11 games will be out no time soon sou i think nvidia has the time to work on fermi the way they want and belive me the Fermi will rock like all nvidia high end cards...

Nvidia is running out of money! How do you develop something with no (or low levels of) money? The card will already be outdated (or surpassed) by the time it comes out unless they make changes to it mid development which would in turn take more money and time.

Nvidia needs money + time to make their new Fermi card. They have neither.

Also, you are a very, very niche market. Very few people will buy an Nvidia card believing that ATI's build quality is lower. I feel they are comparable, especially with the many card manufacturers. Also, people seem to prefer ATI's drivers over Nvidia's (Feel free to beat the crap out of me with your words if I'm wrong), color can be the same on both cards, marketing is to tell you to buy the card! Why would that EVER factor in your decision?? Now, style is subjective, but to me all cards are long, have a fan, and sit in your computer. I don't exactly know what you can do to make a graphics card look like anything other than it is, and to me, both companies cards look the same.

 

[Jeffredo]

As usual Charlie takes a possible fragment of truth and extrapolates all sorts of far fetched scenarios how its another sign of Nvidia's imminent demise. Nvidia is most like winding down chip production on these parts in anticipation of GT300 series cards replacing them. They (and ATI) most likely do this every new gen and it does take awhile to totally liquidate old inventory.

Charlie is a hack spreading FUD. Why anyone lends credence to his frothing-at-the-mouth ramblings is beyond me.

 

[1Kurgan1]

I don't understand how they could not be making a profit on at least the GTX 260 by now. That card has been out a long time, they should have manufacturing costs about as low as possible on it. If they marked this down to 4870's cost, they could possibly take a hold of the top end middle market. Then price the 275 right around $200 to stick with 4890 costs. And put the GTX 285to $250 to duke it out with the 5850.

This would leave them with a more powerful card in the lower bracket, a very close and maybe slightly faster card in the middle, and a slightly slower up top. I just don't see how they can't make a profit at those prices, ATI has been making profits under these ranges with cards just as fast. I mean why in the heck is there GTX 260's at the same price point as the 4890? They are stepping on their own toes by keeping sell costs too high here.

 

[HossHuge]

Charlie is the Fox news of the graphics card industry. You gotta wonder what Jen-Hsun did to Charlie? Every 3-4 months or so he has a negative article about Nvidia.

Like most of you, I am no economist but doesn't the green team produce a higher volume of chips? Usually higher volumes mean lower costs. It's not good for anyone to have a dominate player in the industry.

 

[EastCoasthandle]

Hmm nvidia stock reach 14.25 around 12:30 today. Now it has dropped to 13.98. Did Charlie have an effect on their stock? source

 

[douglatins]

I lol'd by the irony of the source

 

[mlee49]

Who cares if Nvidia cuts the G200 series? What does it matter since they can rebrand the G80 chip into the 315GTS and sell it to Dell's new 'gamer 3liet' system.

Why so Serious?

 

[JATownes]

Any body around here that knows me, knows that I am an AMD/ATI fanboy, but come on guys...this is just stupid. "NVidia is going broke, gonna kill their best products." Give me a break. Nvidia is doing just fine I think, (though they did get their a$$ handed to them by the HD5800s)

 

[dr emulator (madmax)]

i just wish they'd hurry up and bring a nice new card out and stop faffin around
take note nvidia
my needs
(1) a quiet graphics card that doesn't sound like a jet engine when i'm playing pacman
(2) a card that doesn't require me to be plugged directly into the national grid to power it :shadedshu
(3)a card thats not 8 foot long and will actually fit in a standard case

 

[Slappi]

By a small amount!

Like they already do.



Nvidia is running out of money! How do you develop something with no (or low levels of) money? The card will already be outdated (or surpassed) by the time it comes out unless they make changes to it mid development which would in turn take more money and time.

Nvidia needs money + time to make their new Fermi card. They have neither.

Also, you are a very, very niche market. Very few people will buy an Nvidia card believing that ATI's build quality is lower. I feel they are comparable, especially with the many card manufacturers. Also, people seem to prefer ATI's drivers over Nvidia's (Feel free to beat the crap out of me with your words if I'm wrong), color can be the same on both cards, marketing is to tell you to buy the card! Why would that EVER factor in your decision?? Now, style is subjective, but to me all cards are long, have a fan, and sit in your computer. I don't exactly know what you can do to make a graphics card look like anything other than it is, and to me, both companies cards look the same.

You do realize that NVDA is making a profit this quarter and has $1,500,000,000 IN CASH!

Where do you guys get your information?

AMD is in DEBT $3,100,000,000 and lose about $200,000,000-$400,000,000 a quarter.

Some of you guys should never invest in a stock. I mean WTF?

For this year alone, which is half over, NVDA will make about $110,000,000 and AMD will lose about $650,000,000.

Do you understand the significance of these numbers? Do you see how large they are?

Do you understand how close AMD is to Bankruptcy? Do you understand that NVDA makes more than just graphics cards?

ATI will eventually be sold off by AMD I think. They are gonna be screwed within 18 months.

 

[HossHuge]

You do realize that NVDA is making a profit this quarter and has $1,500,000,000 IN CASH!

Where do you guys get your information?

AMD is in DEBT $3,100,000,000 and lose about $200,000,000-$400,000,000 a quarter.

Some of you guys should never invest in a stock. I mean WTF?

For this year alone, which is half over, NVDA will make about $110,000,000 and AMD will lose about $650,000,000.

Do you understand the significance of these numbers? Do you see how large they are?

Do you understand how close AMD is to Bankruptcy? Do you understand that NVDA makes more than just graphics cards?

ATI will eventually be sold off by AMD I think. They are gonna be screwed within 18 months.

Do you have a source for this info?

Welcome to TPU btw.

 

[MKmods]

all the companies are gonna go broke pretty soon...Take a look at how the cost of comps have gone down in the last 10 years.(so if the value of the dollar drops "AND" the cost of hardware drops too where is the profit gonna come from to keep the companies going?)
If they dont drop them Nvidia GTX 295s will be $100 (about the same as 9600s)

And honestly its different now, you can get a 9600 for about $35 that plays most games (add a second and it kicks ass) why even bother with 295's and 5870s in the first place?

The time of the $300+ GPU is over.

 

[Slappi]

Do you have a source for this info?

Welcome to TPU btw.

Thanks!



Just go to YAHOO finance or any other financial site and type in AMD and NVDA and go to their financials. I would link it but the mods would review it I think so it might not come up right away.

AMD needs to pull off a miracle because they are bleeding cash and have been for some time. They sold off their foundries and about all they have left besides their main product (CPUs, Chipsets) is ATI. I think they will be forced to sell it off seeing as how it could completely pull them out of debt. Either that or get another major backer, which I feel is a long shot with the debt they are carrying.

That said.... AMD/ATI has a great product with the 5XXX series. But... they also had a great product with their last series and they still lost money on them when it was all said and done. You can see that in their quarter reports at their IR link at their site. I think they lost $12,000,000 in their graphics division last quarter if I remember correctly. Must of been from selling their cards at very low prices. I mean what is $12,000,000 when you lost another $300,000,000+ in the other areas of AMDs business.

Last thing I would do is invest in AMD at this point..... if they do get a miracle, then sure you miss out on the move from 5 to 10 but you will make a killing without much of the risk.

NVDA on the other hand is flush with cash and should make a decent profit this year. They also have over 70 design wins with Tegra that are just coming in.

I don't really recall the exact amount but I believe their graphics cards are only accounting for less then half of their revenues as of last quarter. nVidia is definitely moving in more than one direction.

 

[NoOneYoudKnow]

You do realize that NVDA is making a profit this quarter and has $1,500,000,000 IN CASH!

Where do you guys get your information?

AMD is in DEBT $3,100,000,000 and lose about $200,000,000-$400,000,000 a quarter.

Some of you guys should never invest in a stock. I mean WTF?

For this year alone, which is half over, NVDA will make about $110,000,000 and AMD will lose about $650,000,000.

Do you understand the significance of these numbers? Do you see how large they are?

Do you understand how close AMD is to Bankruptcy? Do you understand that NVDA makes more than just graphics cards?

ATI will eventually be sold off by AMD I think. They are gonna be screwed within 18 months.

I'll have some of what you're smoking. nVidia has been bleeding cash for 3 consecutive quarters, and that was before AMD launched the 58xx
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=NVDA

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see where this is headed over the next few quarters with no product in the most lucrative markets.

You're right they are still sitting on a large pile of cash, but that can evaporate quickly. If the GT300 and derivatives turn out to be unable to compete on price/performance as many expect, you're looking at another 6 quarters of losses at least. That huge pile won't look so huge anymore. nVidia managed to keep making money on rebranded G80s for 3 years now, but that has finally come to an end, and I don't see a plan C this time. Its GT300 or die.

As for AMD, I agree their financial situation looks a lot more dire than nVidia's on first sight, but they have a far better outlook for the next year at least, and unlike nVidia, they are backed by investors that drown in money and have a long term outlook. Its also the CPU business that is bleeding AMD, not their GPU business. (and things may change dramatically if the intel lawsuits gets settled).

Anyway, I agree with most ppl that Charlie is hardly an objective observer, and one should take his analysis with a truckload of salt, but he usually has the bare facts right. those who doubt it, nVidia fanboy n1, Fuad, has essentially the same story:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15831/1/

Just with a slightly different spin.

 

[ShiBDiB]

This is a bit of a laugh, but posting such BS here as if it is actual news is unnecessary. Let's keep this site serious, No more from semi-accurate.com please. If I want that sort of crap I now know where to go.

QFT

 

[NoOneYoudKnow]

So you believe that ATI cards, which are pretty much identical in components, material makeup and weight to NVIDIA cards, somehow naturally cost far less for ATI to produce. So much so, that they profit on selling cheap cards where as NVIDIA selling the same is only losing money?

Now don't get me wrong as I'm sure the cards cost a different amount for each manufacturer to produce, but I find it laughable to think that people believe ATI is made from gold, angel farts and win but somehow is so much cheaper. Did anyone ever stop and think maybe ATI can sell so cheap because they cut corners too?

2 words for you: die size and yields. A GT300 is about 530mm^2 a RV870 is 334mm². A 60% difference, which means a 60% difference in silicon cost. But worse than that is the effect on yields which tend to go down exponentially with die size. It would take a manufacturing miracle for a GT300 to cost less than twice more than a RV870.

530mm² is HUGE. For reference, an intel core i7 is 263 mm² a Core 2 quad yorkfield is 2x107mm². GT300 on the other hand, is about the same size as an Itanium cpu, and Im not aware of ANY company that ever managed to fab a chip that large in any meaningful volume, let alone selling it profitably for less than $1.000 each.

 

[hat]

Nvidia: Let's kill off our best cards now, before our next lineup is ready.


...yeah... no

 

[inferKNOX]

Wow, this is bad across the board! I hope nV survives. If they die, we all die from the price increases in GPUs!
I just expected a loss in market share, but this... is pretty drastic (unless it's not true, but it may just be).
If this is a practical joke or misinformation, there will be more global celebration in the streets than when Obama got voted in, by the nV Camp, lol!

 

[jagd]

"
As we reported a few days ago, Nvidia is facing a huge shortage of GT200-based products. Partners are complaining as they cannot get any serious demand and that Nvidia’s excuse is that they don’t want to lose money on cards.

Since Radeon 5870, 5850 and upcoming 5700 cards really look, good it looks like Nvidia wants to leave the market in hands of ATI, at least until Fermi GT300 comes out. The premature technology announcement about Fermi is definitely done in order to hurt ATI sales, but ATI definitely has at least two months head start.

Judging from all this, we expect quite bad Q3 and Q4 financial scores for Nvidia. Fermi can save Q4 2009 but only if Nvidia comes up with enough chips, which is again unlikely as this is the biggest technology improvement since G80 back in 2006. "

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15831/1/

 

[Cuzza]

just saying i dont want an argument or flame war and what not

Neither, I grew out of that about 10 years ago

 

[NoOneYoudKnow]

all the companies are gonna go broke pretty soon...Take a look at how the cost of comps have gone down in the last 10 years.(so if the value of the dollar drops "AND" the cost of hardware drops too where is the profit gonna come from to keep the companies going?)
If they dont drop them Nvidia GTX 295s will be $100 (about the same as 9600s)

And honestly its different now, you can get a 9600 for about $35 that plays most games (add a second and it kicks ass) why even bother with 295's and 5870s in the first place?

The time of the $300+ GPU is over.

I disagree. Id say the time for $300 CPU's is (mostly) over. My last build for a friend was using a €45 Athlon-II @2.9 GHz and he was shocked how fast the system is (as was I TBH). Its overkill for most of his needs (which admittedly dont include gaming), i just picked about the cheapest cpu+mb combo I could find to replace his P4 board that had died;

Anyway, for gaming GPU's I still see a high end market. Even the fastest stuff out there struggles with games people do want to run on now affordable >24" monitors or dual/triple monitor setups. In those scenario's, $300 is probably much better spent on a faster GPU than CPU.