Ocean currents and hydropower, solving the worlds energy problems without fusion dreams?

[Fourstaff]

It's not complicated figure it out. They got to the damn moon and they made a bomb that goes boom I'm a mushroom they can figure this out.

The technology and capability to do it is here. Its just too expensive vs other power sources e.g. wind or sun. Thus, this is currently a very niche power source unless we can make it way cheaper.

 

[Totally]

Stainless steel is good at resisting corrosion.

Not in a saltwater environment. It just corrodes differently. It will corrode slower but it won't buy that much time. That's why anything metal regardless of material that is in frequent contact saltwater use sacrificial anodes, usu. made out of zinc, as the main method of fighting corrosion.

 

[R-T-B]

they have tidal waves generating energy now in salt water, and those are taking way more of a punishment than this idea would be... that salt is slamming into tidal wave generators/turbines. and mine would be more of a gentle flow. so if they can do it, so we can. and better to boot!

The issue I see is anchoring. Ocean currents are probably in deep water. What are we tethering this whole assembly too? How does the power get out to somewhere useful? I mean I guess we could just use the power locally and make a Dolphin resort but I think we're going to want to get it to the mainland.

 

[InVasMani]

Why even put them under the ocean just anchor a oversized mill wheel like a ferris wheel above the ocean and submerge it to the sweet spot balance. Then you can put the motor above ocean level and water proof it. Store the energy in capacitors and winning they last a long damn time and store a ton of energy for fast charging Tesla cars.

The issue I see is anchoring. Ocean currents are probably in deep water. What are we tethering this whole assembly too? How does the power get out to somewhere useful? I mean I guess we could just use the power locally and make a Dolphin resort but I think we're going to want to get it to the mainland.

Just anchor them enough that they don't move much and can send out message with some GPS tracking and monitoring. Hell the satillates could even keep track of them getting out of sync beyond a certain point and have ships drag and realign them periodically. Who cares they move around a little long as they function and can be relocated back in place with moderate ease. They already put windmills out on the ocean offshore how is this that much more difficult?

 

[R-T-B]

Why even put them under the ocean

Because the currents are presumably underwater. If they aren't, without an anchor, the craft is just going to drift.

EDIT: Oh, you mean the wheel vs generator housing. Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[InVasMani]

There is still plenty of ocean waves above water though. Who cares if it drifts if you can pull it back in place and track it when it gets too far out of place with satellites from space and GPS tracking. In fact with some rotor adjustments the whole float could probably realign itself over time and shift around within a certain radius in circles with subtle adjustments.

 

[Totally]

How is this different from tidal power generation?

Tidal Energy and How it Works – N-Sci Technologies

nsci.ca

From what I gathered after a bit of research, it takes too many pieces of the right pieces to fall into place to be effective. The biggest drawback in my eyes is that the turbines disrupt whatever current that is being harnessed, which put a hard ceiling on the potential. To compare with solar if you want to increase the power output just add more panels, in the case of tidal generation adding another turbine would incurr a penalty to output due to the added disruption.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

So personally I think apart from Moore's law most technology and development has stagnated, thanks to the speed in which computers have evolved we now have breakthroughs in many fields such as fusion reactions, medicine and so on.

There are many interesting theories that would solve our power requirements but I think the rich and powerful have so much invested in the current status quo and not using money to develop the planet that we have become stuck.

From the industrial revolution to WWII if there was a theory it was instantly developed and put into action. Although most of the current big energy theories such as Dyson sphere's and so on seem impossible with our current skill set, I'm sure there are many that we could implement but are unaware because they are simply brushed under the rug so to speak.

We as a planet need to stop this throw away mentality if we are to have a sustainable energy source it needs to have low production/maintenance compared to lifespan, I hope fusion will be the answer.

 

[joemama]

Figuring out a way to produce electricity from the ocean isn't the main issue here, the main issue should be the cost and maintenance.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Figuring out a way to produce electricity from the ocean isn't the main issue here, the main issue should be the cost and maintenance.

Exactly the majority of these "Green" things were sold have a limited lifespan and just end up being landfill same as any other commodity, solar panels 20-25 years,lithium batteries 2-3years, electric motor used in cars 15-20 years pushing us to buy more and more we need to overhaul our way of thinking.

If a wind turbine, solar panel or tidal system needs a complete overhaul within so many years is it really sustainable energy, although I'm unsure of the wearable parts and how often they need changing things like the hoover dam seem sustainable. Great hunks of concrete that produce energy at the cost of changing the surrounding eco system.

We should at least look at making these modern sustainable options more maintenance friendly.

 

[dorsetknob]

Think your looking at this problem wrong
whats needed is on shore fresh water managment.
The Problems mankind face is Food and more important Fresh water Shortages.
Suitable land needs development as water reservoirs.
These can be utilised as Hydro power generation
Fresh water aqua agriculture including farming fish for protein.
HE Turbine waste water diverted to Agrarian use ie crop Irrigation and water processing plants for potable drinking water.

You Don't need power unless your population has food and potable Water Security.

Want an Example
look to Saudi Arabia

they have invested massive amounts of money in Desalination plants so they can provide water for their people and their agriculture (they are trying to farm on Desert sand ). They also considered towing Ice burgs from Antarctica to mine for water. Ultimately they will fail due to climate change.
With Climate change driving up Temps Vast Swathes of land between the Tropics will become uninhabitable without Technological intervention. This is going to drive Global migration as people seek Food and Water Security.
Wars will Occur as Nations seek water security.

Hint "one is already Brewing in East Africa" as Egypt / Sudan /Ethiopia squabble about the Resorces on the Nile River.

 

[R-T-B]

Exactly the majority of these "Green" things were sold have a limited lifespan and just end up being landfill same as any other commodity, solar panels 20-25 years,lithium batteries 2-3years, electric motor used in cars 15-20 years pushing us to buy more and more we need to overhaul our way of thinking.

If a wind turbine, solar panel or tidal system needs a complete overhaul within so many years is it really sustainable energy, although I'm unsure of the wearable parts and how often they need changing things like the hoover dam seem sustainable. Great hunks of concrete that produce energy at the cost of changing the surrounding eco system.

We should at least look at making these modern sustainable options more maintenance friendly.

I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.

Going back to serious, I think wind power could work well on some windy seas. I believe the north sea may be a good example.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.

This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it.

Also the earth's magnetic field is considered pretty weak like 0.5% the strength of a fridge magnet so the likelihood of it turning anything but a compass is slim.

 

[dorsetknob]

This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it.

Magnetic north was drifting at a rate of up to about 9 miles (15 km) a year. Since the 1990s, however, the drift of Earth's magnetic north pole has turned into “more of a sprint,” scientists say. Its present speed is about 30 to nearly 40 miles a year (50-60 km a year) toward Siberia.

currently drifting over the polar Ice cap

 

[R-T-B]

This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it.

Also the earth's magnetic field is considered pretty weak like 0.5% the strength of a fridge magnet so the likelihood of it turning anything but a compass is slim.

I know it wouldn't actually work. That was kind of the joke.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Magnetic north was drifting at a rate of up to about 9 miles (15 km) a year. Since the 1990s, however, the drift of Earth's magnetic north pole has turned into “more of a sprint,” scientists say. Its present speed is about 30 to nearly 40 miles a year (50-60 km a year) toward Siberia.

currently drifting over the polar Ice cap

Ok consider me more informed but that surely makes the idea more impractical moving a giant ocelating magnet 150m every day.

I still think solar is our best bet if we could make it more maintainable, copper impregnated glass and ceramic with a serviceable semiconductor layer surely would be the way to go. Since the first solar boom's panels are at end of their lifespan the development of semiconductor recycling has come on very fast so if that's possible why recycle the whole panel.

 

[dorsetknob]

Pleanty of Geo-active Volcanic area's
apart from Infrastructue investment its low cost Power
Iceland basicly runs on Geo thermal power

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Plenty of Geo-active Volcanic area's
apart from Infrastructure investment its low cost Power
Iceland basically runs on Geo thermal power

Yes!! Things like this and dam's have large initial costs but will last especially if engineered well but that isn't available to everyone and greed plays a big part also. Look at the crypto mine running in El Salvador surely it would be better to power the country but no let's grab some bitcoin.

Back to the hoover dam, it was built to last generations but much of the current worlds Infrastructure was made to last less than one generation, China has massive amounts of buildings lasting less than a decade ,crumbling because of poor quality metal and in some cases bamboo being used instead of rebar.

Our throw away society has gotten worse and worse as dorsket said we need to focus on producing sustainable food and water and start only using products that will last, can be repaired or easily recycled.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I do like the spitballing of ideas, even if impractical. Cool thread Lynx, energy generation and improving it has always been a fun thought experiment for me.

Indeed, a solutions thread is much better than moaning about the situation in any other way or thread.

Fully agree such that a thumbs up wasn't enough.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Oregon State University is one of the leading researchers into this potential energy source.
https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/Marine.aspx

But to me, the big question isn't whether we can, but whether we should. Ocean currents and tides are VERY important for life on this planet. The Gulf Stream for instance is why Norway is inhabitable and Great Britain has such a mild climate for as far north as it is. Man has a bad track record of not understanding how things are interrelated. I even have concerns about wind power which pulls energy from a system (the atmosphere) and we don't even seem to question it's affects.

Edit: I should have used this link: https://pmec.oregonstate.edu/

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Oregon State University is one of the leading researchers into this potential energy source.
https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/Marine.aspx

But to me, the big question isn't whether we can, but whether we should. Ocean currents and tides are VERY important for life on this planet. The Gulf Stream for instance is why Norway is inhabitable and Great Britain has such a mild climate for as far north as it is. Man has a bad track record of not understanding how things are interrelated. I even have concerns about wind power which pulls energy from a system (the atmosphere) and we don't even seem to question it's affects.

It does erk me a bit that we went from hyped butterfly effect to f butterflies in a heartbeat.

 

[InVasMani]

I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.

Going back to serious, I think wind power could work well on some windy seas. I believe the north sea may be a good example.

Since we are bringing up the subject of the north pole and by extension south pole that is where magnetic fields are at it's strongest. There has got to be a good way to tap into that magnetic energy.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

Since we are bringing up the subject of the north pole and by extension south pole that is where magnetic fields are at it's strongest. There has got to be a good way to tap into that magnetic energy.

As I pointed out earlier earth's magnetic field might be big but it isn't strong.
The only natural magnetic fields that could viably produce electricity would be those from solar flares hence why we have issues with power grids when they hit us.

 

[InVasMani]

Just seems like these discussions on alternative energy speak of anything that isn't solar it just circles back to solar so it feels like a waste to even talk about them.

 

[Shrek]

Heat engine... using the temperature difference betwixt the surface and deep.