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Official AMD Radeon 6000 Series Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'AMD / ATI' started by TechPowerUp Forums, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    already been determined 512bit wont happen its a pipe dream
     
  2. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    prove it is a pipe dream first..seriously no one evenhave cayman yet why are you so determine that cayman will be on 256bit? because the bench from chiphell? they had been prove to be barts not cayman and before cayman officially leak or announce any speculation will be just rumor. so is your own opinion as well. i doubt it was your own wet dream that hd 6000 will be an mainstream target line. even thought it has large possibility due to bulldozer having same cheap/shit design as r600 that will target consumer like you....

    i can also say cayman will features 64bit bus...or 1024bit. i can say whatever i want because we don't even have an actual product yet.
     
  3. Super XP

    Super XP

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    NI is on 512-bit, so I assume SI will follow. The HD 6770 is known to be based on 256-bit, so it only makes sense that it's big brother will be 512-bit. ;)
     
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  4. afw

    afw

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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  5. mdsx1950

    mdsx1950 New Member

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  6. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    are you sure that's for real? that is crazy amount of shader for a mid range card(1280??)....i will not imagine how big ass cayman will be if barts double up...still it will be smaller than gt200 for sure(>576mm^2). i have a terrible feeling that cayman will be another 8800gtx...

    so my prediction was correct....chiphell use barts xt with ridiculous 6.4gt GDDR5 ram in benchmark and it kick gtx 480's ass with 33% mergin and 5% above 5970.....

    [​IMG]

    that is crazy for a mid range card.....RIP Nvidia....don't fall please....
     
  7. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    How do you equate memory bandwith to that extreme vantage score? It looks like Bart XT falls somewhere in between a 5850 and a 5870. Neither of those cards can achieve that score. :confused:
     
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  8. Zen_

    Zen_

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    Not sure if calling the XT a "mid-range" card is fair since it will likely retail for well over $200. It looks more like a replacement for the maligned 5830 while the Pro will be the true mid-range successor to the 5770. On that note I'm very curious to see what the actual price difference between the Pro and XT will end up being. Based on the supposed tech specs it looks like the performance difference will be greater than the difference between the 768M and 1GB 460. I'm still hoping for something significantly better than the 5770 and at my door for ~$150.
     
  9. Octopuss

    Octopuss

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    Pardon my laziness for not wanting to carefully read through 20 pages, but what is the difference between northern and southern islands versions of the cards? I read wiki article about the new generation and I got confused. One page says southern islands is some sort of hybrid between existing technology and northern islands, but I don't understand that. Other page says southern stuff won't happen and AMD goes straight for NI.
     
  10. pantherx12

    pantherx12

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    Why the confusion, seems you know quite well to me.

    SI = Evergreen + NI, something to keep ATI ticking over waiting for new fab process.
    (main and most likely rumour)

    NI = New architechture, will likely need new fab process before it can even be considered.


    We know about as much as you in regards to what is actually happening.

    But those are the rumours : ]
     
  11. Octopuss

    Octopuss

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    Thing is, I don't understand these things too much :p I understand SI and NI are somewhat different architectures, but with all those codenames floating around I have no idea what's goign on :p
    Am I to understand that NI will be different manufacturing process, apparently 32nm, and will come later than SI (is that what we will get in oct/nov?)?
     
  12. entropy13

    entropy13

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    The confusion arose because initially it was the other way around. Southern Islands were supposed to be the 32nm while Northern Islands was the last 40nm. They were switched when TSMC skipped 32nm altogether and went straight to 28nm.
     
  13. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    it was from chip hell which was early rumor as cayman but later on reveal it was barts on the benchmark so it is possible that mid range barts can beat gtx 480 with that 1280 shader +32 rops + 256bit bus with 6.4GT GDDR5 ram. it was even more lead on crysis when it leads about 45% over gtx 480. cayman may be just double of everything...2560shader/128TMU/64rops, 512bit bus+ a bit slower GDDR5(5~5.6GT?). it was also rumor that cayman is about 5~10% over quad sli gtx 460 or 60~75% lead over 512 cuda fermi...

    maybe because of 4D shader and tessellation tweak? plus the new ALU design is far powerful and more efficient than nV's ALU which you won't surprise the performance. also high bandwidth did help alot too(barts is 33% over cypress)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  14. mastrdrver

    mastrdrver

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    No the confusion arouse around the Digitech article that made it sound like S.I. got inserted between N.I. (next gen arch on 32nm) and Evergreen.

    Fact is: N.I. is coming first = new arch back ported from 32nm to 40nm. This is why you keep seeing the rumor bounce back and forth with Barts whether it has a 128 or 256 bit bus. ATI is pad limited on the die at 32nm for 256 bit so 128 bit is what you run with faster memory. 32nm gets canceled and N.I. gets back ported to 40nm and suddenly Barts gets larger die that allows 256 bit bus.

    Don't believe me?

    TSMC canceled 32nm officially November/December 2009. You're going to try and tell me they came up with some new hybrid architecture in less than a year? The real question is this: There is a picture of the 6450 die and it has a date of manufacture of week 28 of 2010. They came up with a hybrid architecture got it ran through and put on the board in 7 months? I call bs. Barts has apparently been back from the fabs since last month.
     
  15. pantherx12

    pantherx12

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    These cards need to come out, soon : /
     
  16. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    they will be out soon enough. heard that NDA is to oct 12~15th..2 weeks from now
     
  17. entropy13

    entropy13

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    Dated January 4, 2010:
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/..._Different_Suppliers_Hybrid_Architecture.html

    First 2 paragraphs:
    What fact are you talking about? Oh, your fact was not a fact at all.
     
  18. Octopuss

    Octopuss

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    Ah, so basically SI is NI backported to 40nm?
     
  19. Semi-Lobster

    Semi-Lobster New Member

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  20. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Vantage extreme doesn't use tesselation. I think you're so stuck that Cayman will be a 512bit bus card (which is highly unlikely and not needed) that you believe those bench's to be Barts. If that chart is real, there's no chance Bart XT can beat a GTX 480. None. I still don't see the reason AMD would need to go to a 512bit bus with Cayman either. Plenty of bandwith with high speed GDDR5 to go around without it. We'll see though. I'm pretty sure you're starting the rumor with 60 ~ 75% lead over 512 shader Fermi as I haven't seen it anywhere. Rumors are meant to be started though, so congratulations. :laugh: :toast:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
    wolf says thanks.
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  21. mastrdrver

    mastrdrver

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    So your going to try and tell me this "hybrid" S.I. was designed, tested, and came back from the fabs with enough time to be put on a card in ~30 weeks?

    Impossible. Not enough time. It just can not be done by anyone unless the company is suicidal.

    Check the date, this isn't some hybrid coming
    [​IMG]

    Check this post (also the date posted because he got real close)

    28 weeks just to start to finish with 1 refresh. That alone says that they didn't have time to design anything and just back ported the 32nm N.I. architecture to 40nm.

    Something to think about:

    If N.I. is going to be this efficient on 40nm, think what 28nm is going to bring next year. :eek:
     
  22. nt300

    nt300

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    Northern Islands to be based on 28nm. 32nm for gpu been scrapped. Also Northern Islands is a brand new design built from the ground up and will likely be completely different from Evergreen.:D
    :eek: :eek: :toast: :rockout:
     
  23. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    i would make a bet with you that it will go anything bigger than 256 bit if cayman is everything that double up from barts. and about ram speed i just notice amd had long history use faster ram on mid range card rather on high end. for example 2600xt has 1.1ghz(2.2GT effective) ram over 2900xt's 825mhz(1.65GT effective). 3870/3850 was debatable because it was a mid range card which also having faster ram of 1ghz(2GT effective) over 2900xt as well. 4670 has faster GDDR3 ram on clock of 1.1ghz(2.2GT effective) over 4870's 900mhz GDDR5(3.6GT) despite it was just GDDR3 compare to 4870's GDDR5. and 5770 had equal speed ram(1.2ghz, 4.8GT effective) except it's only 128bit bus. which i doubt amd would put that 6.4GT ram speed on cayman xt to break that tradition. it will be on barts instead. trust me that is tradition of amd's doing(high speed ram on mid range, wider bus/new type ram on high end)

    what 28nm can bring to us? yes...another double up and up. for example if NI is conroe then SI will be wolfdale which double spec.....which thanks to efficient design and die shrink...
     
  24. crazyeyesreaper

    crazyeyesreaper Chief Broken Rig

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    if companies still followed traditions we would be using single core cpus and are gpus would still be using fixed pipelies tech changes over time and whos to say they dont change this time
     
  25. cheezburger

    cheezburger New Member

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    that's no deny on tradition of moore's law from what you mentioned above. but putting a 6.4GT ram aside with a monster 450~500mm^2 die GPU is absurd...... it's not the first time amd's having hobby putting faster ram on mid range which that later become high end standard. same as fab process they usual will test on smaller cheaper gpu then waiting for feedback before going to high end design. you ain't the first day knowing amd...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010

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