OFFICIAL Duke Nukem Forever is CONFIRMED thread

[DaMulta]

You forgot about PREY(one of my fav games of all time), and Max Pain(that they later sold off)

 

[DannibusX]

Those games were published by 3D Realms, not developed.

 

[DaMulta]

They worked on prey for about a decade before handing it off for some help. Max pain I'm not too sure about.

 

[CDdude55]

Both Max Payne's were developed by Remedy and published by Rockstar.(for the PC version at least)

 

[ktr]

Rise of the Triad.

 

[Benetanegia]

Both Max Payne's were developed by Remedy and published by Rockstar.(for the PC version at least)

Erm no. Both games were developed by Remedy, indeed, but they were produced by 3DRealms and self funded. Besides Rockstar only distributed Max Payne 1 on consoles. PC publisher was Gathering of Developers.

 

[CDdude55]

Erm no. Both games were developed by Remedy, indeed, but they were produced by 3DRealms and self funded. Besides Rockstar only distributed Max Payne 1 on consoles. PC publisher was Gathering of Developers.

Don't think so:

Gathering was bought out.(by take two)

3D Realms produced Max Panye 1 and 2, but with Rockstar still as the publishers and Remedy and the developers.

 

[Benetanegia]

Don't think so:

http://img.techpowerup.org/100908/Capture4654646464.png

http://img.techpowerup.org/100908/Capture4654664.png

Sorry but that is wrong, maybe the IP was later sold to Rockstar, but the first game was published by GOD and produced by 3DRealms. Later Rockstar published the console ports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Payne

They probably bought the IP afterwards, so maybe they have the right to call themselves the publisher legally, I guess, although they didn't publish Max payne.

It happens with music and movies too, so it's something usual after all. Still, at least in my mind, the credit goes to the people that actually had the vision and inspiration to publish great things and not the ones who had the deep pockets to buy them when they were already masterpieces.

EDIT: Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven was also published by Gathering of Developers and now it says 2K Games on Steam.

 

[CDdude55]

Sorry but that is wrong, maybe the IP was later sold to Rockstar, but the first game was published by GOD and produced by 3DRealms. Later Rockstar published the console ports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Payne

They probably bought the IP afterwards, so maybe they have the right to call themselves the publisher legally, I guess, although they didn't publish Max payne.

It happens with music and movies too, so it's something usual after all. Still, at least in my mind, the credit goes to the people that actually had the vision to publish great things and not the ones who had the deep pockets to buy them when they were already masterpieces.

Then take that up to Steam and all the other game distributors that don't list them as publishers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i go off of what i have seen both on credible game sites as well from my own personal experience.

Here's another form IGN:

You're probably right in terms of who did the actual back bone work and then the IP got bought off of them, but in terms of what i am seeing, they are not the publishers, even if they once were, they aren't in this current day and age.

 

[Benetanegia]

Then take that up to Steam and all the other game distributors that don't list them as publishers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i go off of what i have seen both on credible game sites as well from my own personal experience.

Here's another form IGN:

http://img.techpowerup.org/100908/Capture454646.png

You're probably right in terms of who did the actual back bone work and then the IP got bought off of them, but in terms of what i am seeing, they are not the publishers, even if they once were, they aren't in this current day and age.

But we are not discussing who owns the games. We are discussing who actually worked on the game, originated from the discussion about how much did 3DR work on the development of those games, which btw, was a lot.

Let me put it this way. Did Nvidia develop PhysX?

 

[RoutedScripter]

Developed by 3D Realms:

1996 – Duke Nukem 3D
1997 – Shadow Warrior
2008 – Duke Nukem 3D (Xbox Live Arcade port)
2010 – Duke Nukem Manhattan Project (Xbox Live Arcade port)
2010 - Duke Nukem Forever Developed and Produced by 3D Realms with assistance by Gearbox Software and Triptych games
____
There's an 11 year gap of nothing in there. DNF was it, and was never on the back burner.

Except that Triptych is made of 9 ex-3DRealms employees , and gearbox helping was actually a lot of 3Drealms ex employees that were fired in may 2009 , there was a chart somebody made on 3DR forums how many employees went to what developers , including EPIC , ID software too.

Gathering of developers was a clever idea by Scott Miller and made up with several industry professionals , if you'll search about it you'll see that it was bought by take two (surprisingly) but soon went down since take two was not letting them any freedom.

Radar group is something Scott Miller started him self again , with some other people , and it's pretty much the same thing as GoD, it's all about strategy of developing games , you can read it all about on their site.

 

[W1zzard]

Rise of the Triad.

epic game .. with cool voice taunts "where aaare you?" - "behind you!" *splat* three (3!) eyes flying away

 

[RoutedScripter]

Shake it baby

Lesbian Kissing Confirmed !

 

[RejZoR]

Actually i was the most impressed by the Duke showcase back in the 2001 when it was running on highly modified Unreal Engine 1.x. I was like omfg when i watched the trailer from E3 i think. But after all these years i like forgot about it, it doesn't have the Unrealish feeling that i liked so much...

 

[CDdude55]

But we are not discussing who owns the games. We are discussing who actually worked on the game, originated from the discussion about how much did 3DR work on the development of those games, which btw, was a lot.

Let me put it this way. Did Nvidia develop PhysX?

We are discussing who is the developers and who are the publishers. And at this point in time, that would be Remedy and Rockstar. I'm not saying 3DRealms didn't do the most work, but at this point them nor Gathering are associated with those games any more.

Take Duke Nukem Forever, it''s a great example. 3DRealms were the original developers from 1996-2009, considering they f***ed up half way through, the game got passed on eventually to Gearbox, and from that point on it's not 3DRealms IP anymore, they could of been developing the game since the 80's, but as the game moves on, it turns into other peoples game.

 

[Benetanegia]

We are discussing who is the developers and who are the publishers. And at this point in time, that would be Remedy and Rockstar. I'm not saying 3DRealms didn't do the most work, but at this point them nor Gathering are associated with those games any more.

Take Duke Nukem Forever, it''s a great example. 3DRealms were the original developers from 1996-2009, considering they f***ed up half way through, the game got passed on eventually to Gearbox, and from that point on it's not 3DRealms IP anymore, they could of been developing the game since the 80's, but as the game moves on, it turns into other peoples game.

Again, no. Read from post #99 to post #104. DaMulta was suggesting that 3DRealms might have been too involved in other projects and that might have affected DNF development (which is probable considering they only had 24 employees). The next few post are listing different games 3DR worked on and next is yours saying Max Payne was published by Rockstar, as in saying 3DR didnpt work on it (maybe not your intention, but that's how a 3rd would see it).

So I corrected you because 3DR did work on both Max Payne's and Rockstar was never involved in any form in the release of the first Max Payne (they did publish the second, I never said the opposite).

And DNF is indeed a similar situation. If someone asked "who released this game" Gearbox and 2K is the right answer. On the other hand if someone asked "who developed this" the answer is not clear at all, but the most accurate answer is 3DR and 3DR ex-employees.

The idea is simple and is not only about giving credit. If you liked a game developed by Company A, produced by Company B, and published by Company C:

1- you will probably like other games from A, because it was made by their hands.
2- you may like other games produced by B, because as part of their producing role, they had their influence and counseling, and most importantly they chose things like who made the voice acting, or in case outsourcing was required for the art (models/textures, commonplace nowadays) which comany does it, etc.
3- you should never look at the publisher, because if a producer was mentioned, this publisher did nothing but make the CDs and distribute them, and in some few cases they contributed with an upfront payment as a means to get the publishing right (not the case with DNF or Max Payne for example). If a producer was not mentioned, it does not necessarily mean they were more involved either. Most big developers produce their own games, but yeah sometimes publisher==producer, but that is not the norm with big names/big games, unless they are a wholly owned developer of course.

Some questions:

1- If I liked Operation Flashpoint which game should I buy?
a) Operation Flashpoint 2
b) ARMA/ARMA2

2- If I liked Farcry which game should I buy?
a) Farcry 2
b) Crysis

3- If I like COD games which company's games should I buy in the future?
a) Those released by Activision
b) Those made by Respawn Entertainment

The COD case is very very interesting in fact, since Infinity Ward was formed by most of the people working on Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. Any remarkable Medal of Honor game after IW and COD franchise were created? Me thinks not.

 

[CDdude55]

Again, no. Read from post #99 to post #104. DaMulta was suggesting that 3DRealms might have been too involved in other projects and that might have affected DNF development (which is probable considering they only had 24 employees). The next few post are listing different games 3DR worked on and next is yours saying Max Payne was published by Rockstar, as in saying 3DR didnpt work on it (maybe not your intention, but that's how a 3rd would see it).

So I corrected you because 3DR did work on both Max Payne's and Rockstar was never involved in any form in the release of the first Max Payne (they did publish the second, I never said the opposite).

And DNF is indeed a similar situation. If someone asked "who released this game" Gearbox and 2K is the right answer. On the other hand if someone asked "who developed this" the answer is not clear at all, but the most accurate answer is 3DR and 3DR ex-employees.

The idea is simple and is not only about giving credit. If you liked a game developed by Company A, produced by Company B, and published by Company C:

1- you will probably like other games from A, because it was made by their hands.
2- you may like other games produced by B, because as part of their producing role, they had their influence and counseling, and most importantly they chose things like who made the voice acting, or in case outsourcing was required for the art (models/textures, commonplace nowadays) which comany does it, etc.
3- you should never look at the publisher, because if a producer was mentioned, this publisher did nothing but make the CDs and distribute them, and in some few cases they contributed with an upfront payment as a means to get the publishing right (not the case with DNF or Max Payne for example). If a producer was not mentioned, it does not necessarily mean they were more involved either. Most big developers produce their own games, but yeah sometimes publisher==producer, but that is not the norm with big names/big games, unless they are a wholly owned developer of course.

Some questions:

1- If I liked Operation Flashpoint which game should I buy?
a) Operation Flashpoint 2
b) ARMA/ARMA2

2- If I liked Farcry which game should I buy?
a) Farcry 2
b) Crysis

3- If I like COD games which company's games should I buy in the future?
a) Those released by Activision
b) Those made by Respawn Entertainment

The COD case is very very interesting in fact, since Infinity Ward was formed by most of the people working on Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. Any remarkable Medal of Honor game after IW and COD franchise were created? Me thinks not.

It's actually been stated over and over that it was George Broussards fault for holding back the release of DNF, read this article, it's kind of long but interesting: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_duke_nukem/all/1. What happened was that George was never content with the game, as new engines and technology came out, he couldn't bare to see it with anything less, so the game was stuck in a sort of ''windmill'' state. He kept scraping the game to move to a better engines which ending up costing the company time and money.(which is even more probable considering the advancement in engines from the 90's into the 2000's, the quake engine, the unreal engine, cryengine etc.)

Broussard simply couldn’t tolerate the idea of Duke Nukem Forever coming out with anything other than the latest and greatest technology and awe-inspiring gameplay. He didn’t just want it to be good. It had to surpass every other game that had ever existed, the same way the original Duke Nukem 3D had.

And yes, i am not denying that 3DRealms had nothing to do with Max Payne, so im not disagreeing with you in terms of who was the backbone developer to the games and put in the most work. But that's a underlying thing, who ever drops down the most cash in the new developer, whether or not they put in as much more as the past dev, it's not the older devs game anymore, making them not the developers. That's all i was trying to say.

 

[digibucc]

And yes, i am not denying that 3DRealms had nothing to do with Max Payne, so im not disagreeing with you in terms of who was the backbone developer to the games and put in the most work. But that's a underlying thing, who ever drops down the most cash in the new developer, whether or not they put in as much more as the past dev, it's not the older devs game anymore, making them not the developers. That's all i was trying to say.

they may not "be the developers" but they surely "developed it" ... what you're talking about is semantics. from a retail standpoint ok, whoever owned it last is credited as the developer - but who ever really cares about who bought it last? I care who did the most work, and the real work. whether their name is on the box or not, imo, they are the developers.

 

[CDdude55]

they may not "be the developers" but they surely "developed it" ... what you're talking about is semantics. from a retail standpoint ok, whoever owned it last is credited as the developer - but who ever really cares about who bought it last? I care who did the most work, and the real work. whether their name is on the box or not, imo, they are the developers.

I agree.

Like i said, im not aruging with who did the backbone work and those who did the majority work should be credited. But read what my original post was about, it was asked who was the developer of Max Payne and i said Remedy, which is correct, it's there IP. Think how ever you want.

 

[RoutedScripter]

You guys missed one interesting thing

When 3DR sold Max Payne to Take-Two , Rockstar was working on the second one , ... but Take-Two actually called 3DRealms to be a creative consulant and supervisor on the game.

3Drealms was much more involved with the games they published, than you might think , that's why Scott Miller created GoD and now Radar Group , becuse 3DR was preoccupied with DNF.

 

[Easy Rhino]

you guys have my head spinning.

 

[erocker]

you guys have my head spinning.

Wait.. You actually read long winded posts about crap that isn't really relative to the end user playing the game?! I usually skip over that stuff and look for pictures of chicks kissing one another. It keeps my head nice and straight with my eyes locked on the screen.

 

[CDdude55]

Wait.. You actually read long winded posts about crap that isn't really relative to the end user playing the game?! I usually skip over that stuff and look for pictures of chicks kissing one another. It keeps my head nice and straight with my eyes locked on the screen.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Wait.. You actually read long winded posts about crap that isn't really relative to the end user playing the game?! I usually skip over that stuff and look for pictures of chicks kissing one another. It keeps my head nice and straight with my eyes locked on the screen.

oh i did both.

 

[Benetanegia]

It's actually been stated over and over that it was George Broussards fault for holding back the release of DNF, read this article, it's kind of long but interesting: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_duke_nukem/all/1. What happened was that George was never content with the game, as new engines and technology came out, he couldn't bare to see it with anything less, so the game was stuck in a sort of ''windmill'' state. He kept scraping the game to move to a better engines which ending up costing the company time and money.(which is even more probable considering the advancement in engines from the 90's into the 2000's, the quake engine, the unreal engine, cryengine etc.

Yeah, that's a well known story for those who cared about the game, and yes we can say that GB screwed it up, but it's nowhere near as simple as that. Personally, I used to read 3DRealms site and forum every week up until 2009, so I know everything that needs to be known about the game. The engine was last updated in 2004 and it's a heavily modified UE 2.5 so all the delays after that year were not related to engines. A mayor factor in the delays was the fact that GB was aiming at around 15-20 hours of gameplay which is twice as much as the longest FPS released in the last 3 years. As games get more advanced creating more hours becomes harder, as there's much more content to create for every map or "scene". GB attempted to create a very long game with more detail than any other game and only 24 people to do the work. It's almost imposible, and even then they apparently completed 90% of the game or so they say people who actually saw the game. So far, many people that was hired in the last couple years of 3DR existence said they were surprised at how much of the game was already done. It could have been released a long long time ago, but everybody can agree that GB had gone crazy after so many years of expectations and pressure. Personally I'd like nearly all people making games to be like him, but without giving them all that much power. You need someone above him who whilst giving them ample freedom, also knows exactly how much is too much. In that sense Scott Miller failed, not because he is bad at what he does (he is one of the best actually), but for the simple reason that they were all-time friends and was hence unable to put a limit to GB. He tried many times tho and was a reason for many disputes between them, but ultimately they were friends and apparently GB always won, if you know what I mean.

Take Two never helped and made things worse, especially after 2006 and 2008, when they pretty much halted DNF development with their actions. Take Two despite never putting a penny in the project, believed that 3DR owed them a game when they wanted. They even mentioned them losing 5+ billions with the delays, which is not true. If at all, that's the money they would have made if DNF had been released, but not money they lost or they invested. They never actually gave 3DR any money even when they asked for some funding in order to complete the game. Pretty much after 2006 all that Take Two wanted was to obtain the Duke franchise at a very low price...