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Old motherboards + new GPUs

eidairaman1

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Poor kid.

Yeah exactly, ASUS doesn't seem to give a poop about this mobo anymore, and I don't really blame them. Though honestly this is one of those moments that make me question the ease of PC - or PCIe.. Because honestly ask pretty much any guy out there and we would all be like "oh no problem, PCIe is downward compatible" ... This is really fcked up.

Let me find out something. Punch up on google.com for crosshair 3 bios, grab the one from 2012.

By the way I believe Sapphire gpus still have a uefi/legacy switch, my 290 vaporx does.
 
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There is @XFXSupport that can help.

By the way ensure to load the latest motherboard bios in before switching to a new gpu. Some board makers had beta bios for this situation
Hi , i am switching to a GTX 750TI soon and my mobo is quite old but the last bios update was beta bios (wich i am using now) , so do you think i will not have any compatibility issues ???




and btw sorry for replying on a 1.5 year old post.
Desktop_2018_06_30_21_39_26_936.jpg
 
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FOR THE RECORD: There's no such thing as a UEFI-ONLY vBIOS. ALL UEFI compatible vBIOSs to date are hybrid. Meaning they have a full and complete Legacy ROM(old school pre-UEFI vBIOS) + an EFI ROM(for UEFI GOP compatibility). So there's absolutely no need to have a "non-UEFI" vBIOS to run your card on ANY motherboard(UEFI or not). There's also no need(currently) to have a UEFI compatible vBIOS to run your card on a UEFI motherboard. You just need to disable secure boot(and/or any other UEFI GOP features) in the motherboard's BIOS/UEFI. You should be able to boot by just disabling secure boot. Other UEFI GOP features will just fail to work as they should. Typically resulting in a black screen during boot(until the desktop suddenly appears) and boot times that are no faster than without having them enabled.

However, the day is coming when you will need to have a UEFI compatible vBIOS to run your card on a UEFI motherboard. That's not due to happen for another couple of years though.
https://www.techpowerup.com/238950/intel-to-remove-legacy-bios-support-from-motherboard-uefi-in-2020
 
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i have overcome a similar issue on two occasions by installing the GPU not in the primary PCI-e slot, but in the secondary, or tertiary. I dont know if what your experiencing is the same as what i did, but my issue was a matter of my old Asrock Z68 not liking the newer GTX970, worth a shot atleast. im not saying i know why it might work, but it did in my case.
 
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i cant say much about UEFI and new GPU´s. But nvidia´s latest GPU pascal runs fine on non UEFI bios. Have a GTX 1080 TI running just fine on my old X58 motherboard from Asus and i have also testet GTX 570, GTX 660 TI and GTX 970. Different generations and all worked just fine. Cant say about AMD GPU´s cause i have never testet that.
 
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Was a Bios reset performed?

EDIT: DDU used to clear out old drivers?
 
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Asus doesn't make new bios updates even if there are problems whit multiple video cards.
i barely got to work my card, because needed to make extra steps and bios changes.
 

eidairaman1

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FOR THE RECORD: There's no such thing as a UEFI-ONLY vBIOS. ALL UEFI compatible vBIOSs to date are hybrid. Meaning they have a full and complete Legacy ROM(old school pre-UEFI vBIOS) + an EFI ROM(for UEFI GOP compatibility). So there's absolutely no need to have a "non-UEFI" vBIOS to run your card on ANY motherboard(UEFI or not). There's also no need(currently) to have a UEFI compatible vBIOS to run your card on a UEFI motherboard. You just need to disable secure boot(and/or any other UEFI GOP features) in the motherboard's BIOS/UEFI. You should be able to boot by just disabling secure boot. Other UEFI GOP features will just fail to work as they should. Typically resulting in a black screen during boot(until the desktop suddenly appears) and boot times that are no faster than without having them enabled.

However, the day is coming when you will need to have a UEFI compatible vBIOS to run your card on a UEFI motherboard. That's not due to happen for another couple of years though.
https://www.techpowerup.com/238950/intel-to-remove-legacy-bios-support-from-motherboard-uefi-in-2020

Yeah some just provide the function of turning legacy off and on
 
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Yeah some just provide the function of turning legacy off and on

@MrGenius - Not all motherboards have the option to force legacy mode in the BIOS settings. I had a similar issue to the OP with a Dell Alienware Aurora R3 & an RX 480. The R3 has an early UEFI motherbboard that hangs on boot (blank screen, no POST) if a hybrid firmware AMD GPU is in the machine. Dell have abandoned the R3 with no BIOS update to fix the bug.

I worked round the issue by manually modifiing the firmware to ignore the GOP image, this allowed me to boot and use the RX 480 in my Aurora R3 (full details in this post on the win-raid forums, also spoilered below)

Hello,

Recent AMD GPUs have a hybrid ROM which contains two images: A legacy video BIOS (vBIOS) image and a compressed graphics output protocol (GOP) driver image. In theory this allows the card to work well on both legacy systems (which will use the vBIOS image) and more modern systems with a unified extensible firmware interface (UEFI) compatible pre-boot firmware architecture (which use the GOP driver).

However some early UEFI implementations cannot cope with the hybrid BIOS, they try to load the GOP driver and fail, hanging at boot with a blank screen. I have personally experienced this with an AMD RX480 and an Alienware Aurora R3 system (other examples: RX 480 incompatibility thread on reddit, R3 with an RX580, another R3 with an RX480)

It is a particular problem for branded systems with custom motherboards like many systems from HP, Dell, Lenovo etc that no longer receive BIOS updates from the manufacturer and have no options within the BIOS to force legacy mode boot when an EFI module is detected.

Some older video cards have a physical switch on them to swap between legacy and UEFI mode. The RX 480 however has no switch and exposes both the legacy and the GOP images to the pre boot firmware. I found that by modifying the firmware ROM for my GPU to mark the legacy image as the "last" image it would hide the GOP image and render the system bootable.

Here is what I did (cross posted from the AMD and Nvidia GOP update thread):

drbob said:
I manually edited the BIOS ROM of my RX 480 to set the last image indicator byte to 0x80 in the PCIR header of the first (legacy) vbios image in the ROM. I found this table helpful in identifying the correct byte to set (byte offset 0x15 from the start of the PCIR header), as I found the image @lordkag posted at the top of this thread a bit confusing.

The biggest hassle was finding out how to fix the BIOS checksum. I modified a 0xFF byte in the padding at the end of the legacy image to 0x7F (0xFF-0x80=0x7F), thereby compensating for the 0x80 I had added to the total, to make the checksum for the entire legacy image match that of the original. There is probably a better way to do this, but I couldn't work out how the value at 0x21 related to the image checksum. On my RX480 the legacy image occupied offset 0x00 to 0xE5FF

After loading the modified image, my RX480 card no longer hangs at boot in my Alienware Aurora R3 and I can use it normally. Similar mods may well help others with poorly implemented EFI BIOS that can't cope with the GOP image on a stock radeon card.

I was expecting the modification to trigger the AMD driver vbios signature checks and necessitate use of the AMD/ATI Pixel Clock Patcher driver patch, but with Radeon 18.12.3 at least, this was not necessary.
To perform this fix you will need a system that will boot with the card you plan to modifiy (I had an older legacy BIOS only Q6600 system to hand). I downloaded the firmware of my GPU to a ROM file using atiwinflash (included with the command line too atiflash.exe, which would also work). I then used HxD to edit the ROM and verified that the ROM checksum matched that of the original BIOS with atiflash (atiflash.exe -cf <FILE> on both original and modified bios, or load the modified bios into atiwinflash without programming it to the card).

I programmed the modified BIOS to the GPU using atiflash.

IMPORTANT: If you plan to do this - backup your original BIOS first (make all edits to second copy) and be very careful you are modifying the correct bytes in the ROM, an error could easily brick your GPU.

NOTE: The offsets mentioned in the table I link above are from the start of the PCIR header. The actual location of this header will vary depending on your GPU rom, it won't start at 0x00. For example, in the ROM of my RX 480 the PCIR header of the legacy VBIOS image starts at offset 0x254 and the last image indicator byte which I modified from 0x00 to 0x80 is at offset 0x269 (0x254 + 0x15):
Capture.PNG

Below is an example showing how I modified ROM of my card at offset 0xE568 in the the padding at the end of the legacy vBIOS image to balance the checksum so it would match the checksum of the original BIOS. You can also see the start of the next image (the GOP UEFI driver) which begins at 0xE600:
Capture2.PNG
ALSO NOTE: All the offsets and values mentioned above are in hexadecimal Don't attempt this unless you understand what that means and what a hex editor is.

EDIT: Looking at some of the other posts on this forum seems like I'm probably reinventing the wheel here....
 
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eidairaman1

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@MrGenius - Not all motherboards have the option to force legacy mode in the BIOS settings. I had a similar issue to the OP with a Dell Alienware Aurora R3 & an RX 480. The R3 has an early UEFI motherbboard that hangs on boot (blank screen, no POST) if a hybrid firmware AMD GPU is in the machine. Dell have abandoned the R3 with no BIOS update to fix the bug.

I worked round the issue by manually modifiing the firmware to ignore the GOP image, this allowed me to boot and use the RX 480 in my Aurora R3 (full details in this post on the win-raid forums, also spoilered below)

Hello,

Recent AMD GPUs have a hybrid ROM which contains two images: A legacy video BIOS (vBIOS) image and a compressed graphics output protocol (GOP) driver image. In theory this allows the card to work well on both legacy systems (which will use the vBIOS image) and more modern systems with a unified extensible firmware interface (UEFI) compatible pre-boot firmware architecture (which use the GOP driver).

However some early UEFI implementations cannot cope with the hybrid BIOS, they try to load the GOP driver and fail, hanging at boot with a blank screen. I have personally experienced this with an AMD RX480 and an Alienware Aurora R3 system (other examples: RX 480 incompatibility thread on reddit, R3 with an RX580, another R3 with an RX480)

It is a particular problem for branded systems with custom motherboards like many systems from HP, Dell, Lenovo etc that no longer receive BIOS updates from the manufacturer and have no options within the BIOS to force legacy mode boot when an EFI module is detected.

Some older video cards have a physical switch on them to swap between legacy and UEFI mode. The RX 480 however has no switch and exposes both the legacy and the GOP images to the pre boot firmware. I found that by modifying the firmware ROM for my GPU to mark the legacy image as the "last" image it would hide the GOP image and render the system bootable.

Here is what I did (cross posted from the AMD and Nvidia GOP update thread):


To perform this fix you will need a system that will boot with the card you plan to modifiy (I had an older legacy BIOS only Q6600 system to hand). I downloaded the firmware of my GPU to a ROM file using atiwinflash (included with the command line too atiflash.exe, which would also work). I then used HxD to edit the ROM and verified that the ROM checksum matched that of the original BIOS with atiflash (atiflash.exe -cf <FILE> on both original and modified bios, or load the modified bios into atiwinflash without programming it to the card).

I programmed the modified BIOS to the GPU using atiflash.

IMPORTANT: If you plan to do this - backup your original BIOS first (make all edits to second copy) and be very careful you are modifying the correct bytes in the ROM, an error could easily brick your GPU.

NOTE: The offsets mentioned in the table I link above are from the start of the PCIR header. The actual location of this header will vary depending on your GPU rom, it won't start at 0x00. For example, in the ROM of my RX 480 the PCIR header of the legacy VBIOS image starts at offset 0x254 and the last image indicator byte which I modified from 0x00 to 0x80 is at offset 0x269 (0x254 + 0x15):
View attachment 114547

Below is an example showing how I modified ROM of my card at offset 0xE568 in the the padding at the end of the legacy vBIOS image to balance the checksum so it would match the checksum of the original BIOS. You can also see the start of the next image (the GOP UEFI driver) which begins at 0xE600:
View attachment 114548
ALSO NOTE: All the offsets and values mentioned above are in hexadecimal Don't attempt this unless you understand what that means and what a hex editor is.

EDIT: Looking at some of the other posts on this forum seems like I'm probably reinventing the wheel here....

Drawback is this will not work on Vega Cards or NV GTX 1000 series as those are locked from bios mods
 
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@MrGenius - Not all motherboards have the option to force legacy mode in the BIOS settings. I had a similar issue to the OP with a Dell Alienware Aurora R3 & an RX 480. The R3 has an early UEFI motherbboard that hangs on boot (blank screen, no POST) if a hybrid firmware AMD GPU is in the machine. Dell have abandoned the R3 with no BIOS update to fix the bug.

I worked round the issue by manually modifiing the firmware to ignore the GOP image, this allowed me to boot and use the RX 480 in my Aurora R3 (full details in this post on the win-raid forums, also spoilered below)

Hello,

Recent AMD GPUs have a hybrid ROM which contains two images: A legacy video BIOS (vBIOS) image and a compressed graphics output protocol (GOP) driver image. In theory this allows the card to work well on both legacy systems (which will use the vBIOS image) and more modern systems with a unified extensible firmware interface (UEFI) compatible pre-boot firmware architecture (which use the GOP driver).

However some early UEFI implementations cannot cope with the hybrid BIOS, they try to load the GOP driver and fail, hanging at boot with a blank screen. I have personally experienced this with an AMD RX480 and an Alienware Aurora R3 system (other examples: RX 480 incompatibility thread on reddit, R3 with an RX580, another R3 with an RX480)

It is a particular problem for branded systems with custom motherboards like many systems from HP, Dell, Lenovo etc that no longer receive BIOS updates from the manufacturer and have no options within the BIOS to force legacy mode boot when an EFI module is detected.

Some older video cards have a physical switch on them to swap between legacy and UEFI mode. The RX 480 however has no switch and exposes both the legacy and the GOP images to the pre boot firmware. I found that by modifying the firmware ROM for my GPU to mark the legacy image as the "last" image it would hide the GOP image and render the system bootable.

Here is what I did (cross posted from the AMD and Nvidia GOP update thread):


To perform this fix you will need a system that will boot with the card you plan to modifiy (I had an older legacy BIOS only Q6600 system to hand). I downloaded the firmware of my GPU to a ROM file using atiwinflash (included with the command line too atiflash.exe, which would also work). I then used HxD to edit the ROM and verified that the ROM checksum matched that of the original BIOS with atiflash (atiflash.exe -cf <FILE> on both original and modified bios, or load the modified bios into atiwinflash without programming it to the card).

I programmed the modified BIOS to the GPU using atiflash.

IMPORTANT: If you plan to do this - backup your original BIOS first (make all edits to second copy) and be very careful you are modifying the correct bytes in the ROM, an error could easily brick your GPU.

NOTE: The offsets mentioned in the table I link above are from the start of the PCIR header. The actual location of this header will vary depending on your GPU rom, it won't start at 0x00. For example, in the ROM of my RX 480 the PCIR header of the legacy VBIOS image starts at offset 0x254 and the last image indicator byte which I modified from 0x00 to 0x80 is at offset 0x269 (0x254 + 0x15):
View attachment 114547

Below is an example showing how I modified ROM of my card at offset 0xE568 in the the padding at the end of the legacy vBIOS image to balance the checksum so it would match the checksum of the original BIOS. You can also see the start of the next image (the GOP UEFI driver) which begins at 0xE600:
View attachment 114548
ALSO NOTE: All the offsets and values mentioned above are in hexadecimal Don't attempt this unless you understand what that means and what a hex editor is.

EDIT: Looking at some of the other posts on this forum seems like I'm probably reinventing the wheel here....
MAJORLY reinventing the wheel. All you needed to do was delete the UEFI GOP module from your VBIOS. Done. If you're not using it for UEFI GOP boot, it's not needed(does NOT need to be there for any other reason).

Also, you can do that on any card(even one with a locked down BIOS).

EDIT: I was wrong, you can't do it on cards with a locked down BIOS. And it might be more complicated on some cards than just deleting the UEFI GOP module(still might need to fix checksums and what not). But on some cards that basically all you'd need to do.
 
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I have a RX 580 running on a X58 Mobo, I could test it on a AM3+ and possibly a AM3 Gigabyte Mobos to see if they work with the card if you like?
 
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I have a RX 580 running on a X58 Mobo, I could test it on a AM3+ and possibly a AM3 Gigabyte Mobos to see if they work with the card if you like?

They work on AM3. Tested dozens of them on GA-880GA-UD3H. I slapped a 1080Ti few days ago in that board. That's my repair testbed... at least not afraid to kill it.
 

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I have a RX 580 running on a X58 Mobo, I could test it on a AM3+ and possibly a AM3 Gigabyte Mobos to see if they work with the card if you like?
AM3+ 290 VaporX works.
 
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Case Cooler Master Stacker 830 NV Edition/ Dual Cooler Master 690 Advance II
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 SBX/ Creative X-Fi Titanium Pci-E/ On-board Realtek
Power Supply Triple Corsair Platinum HX850i
Mouse Logitech G7 WL / Logitech G903 Lightspeed / MS BT 8000
Keyboard Dual Logitech G19s
Software Win10 Pro
tend to run for awhile before the whole upgrade a 1080Ti on am3+ platform with no issues or whatever... so everything is about software support...
 

remdale

New Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
4 (0.00/day)
FOR THE RECORD: There's no such thing as a UEFI-ONLY vBIOS. ALL UEFI compatible vBIOSs to date are hybrid. Meaning they have a full and complete Legacy ROM(old school pre-UEFI vBIOS) + an EFI ROM(for UEFI GOP compatibility). So there's absolutely no need to have a "non-UEFI" vBIOS to run your card on ANY motherboard(UEFI or not). There's also no need(currently) to have a UEFI compatible vBIOS to run your card on a UEFI motherboard. You just need to disable secure boot(and/or any other UEFI GOP features) in the motherboard's BIOS/UEFI. You should be able to boot by just disabling secure boot. Other UEFI GOP features will just fail to work as they should. Typically resulting in a black screen during boot(until the desktop suddenly appears) and boot times that are no faster than without having them enabled.
Hi! I got excited about the work of gb_drbob regarding the hybrid BIOS AMD cards. I have a dual GPU Powercolor Devil 13 390 X2 16GB. It has a Dual BIOS feature and so it has 4 BIOS chips in total! (2 for each GPU).
The motherboard is a very old Intel D5400XS which has UEFI. UEFI boot disabled. I'm having a black screen issue, even couldn't get into UEFI settings. When I did, the picture was terrible, text strings from different screens were interfering with each other. Anyway, I couldn't boot into OS.

So I've dumped and edited all of the vBIOS chips with a USB flash programmer. Then I did everything in Hexedit (replaced 00 with 80 for the legacy image, fixed checksum, even replaced GOF with FF's when the first way didn't work out) and then flashed the edited versions back. No much luck. I could get a picture of the UEFI settings screen, but since it was in the VGA resolution, the picture wasn't full size on the screen, so was small instead. I could only get into the UEFI settings in the diagnostic mode only.

What could be wrong? Should be working fine as long as the legacy vBIOS is used and UEFI boot is disabled.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
718 (0.28/day)
System Name The Banshee
Processor i7 8700K @ 4.7GHz Core/4.4GHz Cache 1.19V
Motherboard AsRock Z170M OC Formula
Cooling CPU + GPU Custom loop
Memory 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200 C14 1.35V
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 780 Ti @ 1250/1950 1.187V
Storage 120GB OS SSD & 1TB Mass Storage HDD
Display(s) LG 25UM57-P
Case Farctal Design Arc XL
Audio Device(s) ATH-M20x
Power Supply Evga SuperNova 1300 G2
Mouse Evga Torq X3
Keyboard Thermaltake challenger
Software Win 10 Pro 64-Bit
Hi! I got excited about the work of gb_drbob regarding the hybrid BIOS AMD cards. I have a dual GPU Powercolor Devil 13 390 X2 16GB. It has a Dual BIOS feature and so it has 4 BIOS chips in total! (2 for each GPU).
The motherboard is a very old Intel D5400XS which has UEFI. UEFI boot disabled. I'm having a black screen issue, even couldn't get into UEFI settings. When I did, the picture was terrible, text strings from different screens were interfering with each other. Anyway, I couldn't boot into OS.

So I've dumped and edited all of the vBIOS chips with a USB flash programmer. Then I did everything in Hexedit (replaced 00 with 80 for the legacy image, fixed checksum, even replaced GOF with FF's when the first way didn't work out) and then flashed the edited versions back. No much luck. I could get a picture of the UEFI settings screen, but since it was in the VGA resolution, the picture wasn't full size on the screen, so was small instead. I could only get into the UEFI settings in the diagnostic mode only.

What could be wrong? Should be working fine as long as the legacy vBIOS is used and UEFI boot is disabled.
Card is probably too new and the board doesn't like it. Why are you trying to use that on a dual 771 board anyway? That board won't even make use of half a single r9 390 let alone two.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
614 (0.11/day)
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
System Name BorgX79
Processor i7-3930k 6/12cores@4.4GHz
Motherboard Sabertoothx79
Cooling Capitan 360
Memory Muhskin DDR3-1866
Video Card(s) Sapphire R480 8GB
Storage Chronos SSD
Display(s) 3x VW266H
Case Ching Mien 600
Audio Device(s) Realtek
Power Supply Cooler Master 1000W Silent Pro
Mouse Logitech G900
Keyboard Rosewill RK-1000
Software Win7x64
I'm running a RX480 Nitro on a x79 system with BIOS only.

It works; you have other problems.

I have a Sapphire card,as I always buy their cards if I can.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
1,118 (1.04/day)
System Name just ordinary potato system, but dont understimate potato..
Processor ryzen raven ridge 2200g, ryzen 2600 upgrade:)
Motherboard msi b350 pc mate, biostars a320, asrock ab350m micro
Cooling x2 cheap china handmade, i got plenty aigo/fantech rgb fans now heh
Memory klevv dual channel 8gb 3000mhz, trident 16gb 3600mhz, random ddr2 stick
Video Card(s) back to square, using vega 56 now:D
Storage wd green ssd 240gb, 3tb seagate expnasion, random laptop hdd x4, 1tb 3.5
Display(s) acer vgo 22inch fullhd 75hz
Case cheap segotep/dazumba mid atx, alcatroz mini atx
Audio Device(s) genius retro wood style, harman kardon stick iii
Power Supply be quite system power9, powerlogic standar, voltron 300fx, thermaltake smart 1200w
Mouse rexus, genius ps/2, powerlogic ps/2 ball tracking
Keyboard rexus, random china product x3
Software talking abt best software, autodesk/unity3d/notepad yes notepad!!
Benchmark Scores theres nothing to brag abt potato, but it can run decent 30fps fullhd with good setting:)
it can run just fine rx 4/5, im using am2+ socket for a test, problems it will start bottleneck while using higher than 1070/vega56 :D
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
37,376 (6.77/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
You need to look up bios for that skulltrail. Intel stopped providing support totally.
 
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