• We've upgraded our forums. Please post any issues/requests in this thread.

Open Letter to Epic Games

Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=473890


Source Article:
Gamasutra has a 4-page interview with Cliff B and it's a pretty cool read. Some of his ideas are neat.

http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/17..._the_world.php

About Japanese devs:

One of the options I've thought of was what if I left Epic right now, and became a consultant to help Japanese developers make games that are more Western-friendly -- not only from an IP perspective, but also from the game mechanics and features perspective. I could seriously have a very healthy consulting gig doing that, right?
And so my advice to Japan is that in a disc-based market right now, you cannot [ignore multiplayer]. I'm not saying tack multiplayer onto every game. But for instance, Shadows of the Damned, that was a wonderfully crazy adventure, the dialogue had me laughing out loud, just even the key-door systems in there; it was a beautifully crazy game with really fun gameplay, but no multiplayer co-op experience in there. I'm not saying tack on a versus mode; there's a billion different ways you can do some sort of "players interacting with other players" mode.
For instance there's Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. That's ironically one of the most innovative games with what we call "mingle player" that has had those kinds of blending and blurring of single player and multiplayer -- and it came from Japan! So clearly some of the developers over there get that, because that game is going to continue to inspire a lot of Western developers to figure ways that you can have connected elements in campaign games, and have more of a blended experience.
And if you're going to make a third-person shooter... the fact that Vanquish didn't have a multiplayer suite was a crime. That IP, it was pretty good as far as being Western, the gameplay was great, and the vibe... I've often said on record that if Gears is the kind of Wild, Wild West coal train chugging along, then Vanquish is the Japanese bullet train, with style and everything. There is absolutely no reason I shouldn't have been zipping around, doing the mega slides, diving up in the air in an arena with other players.
I'm sure the development team got together and was like, "Well, we probably shouldn't do multiplayer because of the budget," or the time, but at the end of the day you have an amazing product that was [handicapped] by the fact that it was seen by many gamers as a campaign rental or a used game, and not the $60, day one, gotta have it game.
I'm afraid people will see my big advice as "just tack on multiplayer." No, don't ever just tack on multiplayer; it's a huge mistake. Make the multiplayer soar and make it relevant to the game, and make it key to the DNA of what the experience is.

Fatal Frame:

Why don't I have a multiplayer Fatal Frame yet? What if I had a Fatal Frame where anonymous people could join my game and be ghosts and try to scare the crap out of me, and then I rate how well they scared me? Basically a fancy hide and go seek
Why don't I have an augmented reality version of Fatal Frame for the Vita, in which ghosts hang around the world? I think Nintendo had something similar to that, right? Why don't they have ARGs where they then actually hide real ghosts in the real world, maybe where even real people died?

That's maybe a little too crazy, but this is the kind of thinking that I think needs to kind of push everything.

Silent Hill:

I miss that experience. But mark my words, if we get to just fully-connected consoles that have e-shops and everything like that, you might see the rise or re-emergence of the scary horror genres as $20 or $30 games
If I were to rate the Silent Hills in the order of the best ones... The Silent Hill series for me was like Highlander, which for me stopped after the first one. So in regards to Silent Hill, after Silent Hill 3 for me there are no Silent Hills. And that sounds really mean; I apologize to anybody who works on the Silent Hills.
I would say, in order [from favorite to least favorite], Silent Hill 2. and then actually I would go for Silent Hill 3 and then 1, because 1 for me was a great game but the graphics on the PS1 just do not hold up. It's that just getting into 3D, the textures are not perspective-correct, things are swimming everywhere, and I'm just like, "Ahh... I can't deal with this."
Mechanics:

Eventually I'd love to do a horror game someday, and I have all these mechanics I'd love to implement. One of the ones I've fantasized about is to have a game that's first person, and the monsters essentially are the most clear when they're in your periphery, and then when you actually look at them, that's when they become more and more vague. It's all about what's unseen, right?
The other mechanic I want to do -- that somebody can feel free to steal, because I'm never going to get around to doing it -- is make a game in which it's first-person and you're being stalked by giant scary creatures, and you can turn invisible, but the only way to turn invisible is to close your eyes. And then you're trying to play this Metal Gear-ish stealth game around these creatures, and you hear the alert state, at which point you close your eyes and you just have to then listen.
There's this sound technology, I can't remember the name of it, where it really feels like the things are around you, and then you can only stay invisible for so long and find the right time to open your eyes. And you're either going to be in the clear, or there's going to be this thing just breathing down on you or whatnot. I thought that could be a fun mechanic to do. But who knows, right?

Resident Evil:

Well, what happened is that it ceased being a horror game; it became an action game. And as much as the player was [handicapped] by pivot controls, he's still a badass dude with a laser sight and he's wiping out hundreds of zombies, right? You know, we weren't a scared girl running away from a giant guy with scissors anymore [Ed. Note: a reference to PS1 horror game Clock Tower], and that's okay.
Again, though, I would be terrified if suddenly, the doomsday scenario came along. Tim Sweeney says, "Hey you, you're fired!" and then Capcom's says, "Hey, come work for us and do the next Resident Evil game!" I'll be like, "Oh my God."
And I think the proper way to do that -- if I were to work on an RE game, hypothetically -- would be to alternate between those moments. Maybe do an RE game where there's two kinds of characters -- you know, you've got a Leon-type guy, and then mix in a scared little girl, and so you alternate between the empowerment and the fear
You know what else I would consider, from a production standpoint, is what if I was running Capcom? I would split Resident Evil -- and this may be a mistake but I'm just throwing an idea out there. I would do the Resident Evil, you know, "Merc Ops," where you're these badass soldiers who clean out zombies and you're just like "the guys."
And then do Resident Evil: Special Victims Unit. Where it's the stories of the ordinary people, where you see one zombie and that's scary and maybe you can fend that one off, but you get more than two or three and you do nothing but run, Walking Dead style. And see it from both sides.

Uncharted:

But one of the things that I find missing from Uncharted is that if I'm a treasure hunter and I'm playing Uncharted 3, I'm finding like a random Faberge Egg every once in a while, and I'm in this jungle and I try to go off the beaten path and I can't.
If I were at Naughty Dog now -- wow, this is turning into an "if Cliffy ran the world" interview -- but yeah, I would do a version of Uncharted that's multiplayer, in which every person is their own version of a Nathan Drake and you're doing global treasure hunts. And have dynamic events where "A new rune has been found in Peru!", you know?
The race to get there, and then if somebody else got there first they actually left traps behind or bait/switch, and people backstabbing each other, and really have that be player-driven, and have a lot of emergent gameplay. Don't focus on the script-y stuff.

You know, make the jungles and make the players race to get to it, and make The Amazing Race with treasures, you know, a version of what Indiana Jones was -- globetrotting around the world
Here's the Letter Message:

No Thanks ...

[yt]vToX4dJ-oTQ[/yt]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

erocker

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
42,381 (10.17/day)
Likes
18,023
Processor Intel i7 8700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z370 AORUS Gaming 7
Cooling Water
Memory 16gb G.Skill 4000 MHz DDR4
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 1080
Storage 3 x Samsung Evo 850 500GB, 1 x 250GB, 2 x 2TB HDD
Display(s) Nixeus EDG27
Case Thermaltake X5
Power Supply Corsair HX1000i
Mouse Zowie EC1-B
Software Windows 10
#2
Your point?
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#3
He wants japanese developers to create spoiled ass games :p imo

And this is a clear example of american conquest of dreaming of converting others into what they do.

That guy from EPIC was never ever in my books of anything ... EPIC as a company is purely technological as it was made ... UT is a quake mod , and GOW is just like movies, totally non-international friendly ... come on, epic bluffing with this cliff B, ID Software is a tech company too and they don't have some big super story-creative people around there, but they don't have this big mouth talking BS around the web.

So a guy that has created a game and often acts like a celebrity slut on camera, that only looks cool to some american kids bombarded by hollywood propaganda is going to make this BIG interviews "analyzing and dictating" how the supposably "perfect scenario" would be to teach others how to do rite/wrong ... well poop it. He lives in an illusion.

This attitude is like exactly the same like the military elite ... so hey sovereign country, unless you do what we told you, we'll bomb you. I am sick of this cliffB and that POS GOW. Because you can't really score UT as the backer of the statements, UT was a quake mod, UT didn't have this views it was pure shooter, everyone could enjoy it if they ignore gore (like i do) ... so there's an international success but it can't be counted in this case.

Non-Anime japanese games are fine with pretty much everyone, so full international here, a more than 30 year old legacy ... what legacy does EPIC have against nintendo? lol, come on, they need to grow up, stop sucking milk bottle and acting those camera douches celebirty yo-man-wassup shit.

Did you ever saw any of nintendo's reps/ceos/developers acting like camera sluts in front of the camera ... find it for me if you can.

If we just look the E3 ... did you ever saw nintendo conference putting up some nintendo personell to act like buzz douches that lack acting skills ... there were a few only, but none of them were nintendo employees. Now look the competition. VGA-Style ... Will-I-Am comes out to announce a game ... then some style-yo rap man comes out to annonce generals 2 .... this is what i call celebrity bullcrap, i don't want gaming to turn into hollywood. Spike TV and Geoff Keighley runs that POS and those gametrailers.com ... this is the biggest enemy of gaming industry, he's turning and influencing the society to then convert to look at gaming like movies and all that pimped up .... the main problem is, this makes the industry to shift and these corporate capitalists come in to EXPLOIT on it and I don't want the gaming to be eaten by this monster. The current monster is the mobile smartphone gaming, it needs to be destroyed to preserve the TRUE CREATIVE WORK of the larger game developers (big high profile budgets)

I am not making this up LOOK THIS in fullness: http://gdc2011.nintendo.com/
 
Last edited:

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
13,817 (3.48/day)
Likes
5,524
Location
Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad QX9650 Extreme @ 3.0 GHz
Motherboard Asus Rampage Formula
Cooling ZeroTherm Nirvana NV120 Premium
Memory 8GB (4 x 2GB) Corsair Dominator PC2-8500
Video Card(s) 2 x Sapphire Radeon HD6970
Storage 2 x Seagate Barracuda 320GB in RAID 0
Display(s) Dell 3007WFP 30" LCD (2560 x 1600)
Case Thermaltake Armor w/ 250mm Side Fan
Audio Device(s) SupremeFX 8ch Audio
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Modular
Software Win8 Pro x64 / Cat 12.10
#4
And this is a clear example of american conquest of dreaming of converting
I'd say it's just a way to help the Japanese grow presence in the western gaming market by making their games, or versions of them, more appealing to western consumers.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#5
I'd say it's just a way to help the Japanese grow presence in the western gaming market by making their games, or versions of them, more appealing to western consumers.
I am just look at what the messeage might say to others ... I would say CliffB didn't mean that directly or so ... but that's what is sounds like, so i would like he is more careful what he says.

How can you credit someones analysis, comments, advices, opinions on internationally spanning game franchises and companies, while he doesn't even speak in a language intenrationally appropriate.

Honestly, the way he worded it, sound like some guy from just playing COD on XBL coming to a cafe and ranting off first things on his head, sorry :(


Also Epic didn't really care for the consumer, they made all those X360 exclusives pretty much default. I would never ever bow to Microsoft. This shows weakness of Epic games, they can be easily manipulated by bigger conglomerates. The cash they get from the exclusivity deal seems more important to them, than defending the gaming industry health and legacy, independence. That's the illusion I mentioned before, he actually though he defends legacy and industry health by making japanese to work western games, promoting violence? promoting camera sluts? promoting celebrity douches? promoting spoiled-ass-gore-blood-GUNZ-kill-em-all dumbed down society? ... bwhahaha joke of the century.

And then comes the military aspect, I like scifi games simply because they are VOID of these real-world event warfare stuff, I don't like seeing people being some kind of praising to all military stuff since it's all so false so frauded. Those people are intoxicated and mentally conditioned to do those evil things in real life, many of them beyond repair and get illnesses.


If you want to go deeper, i don't mind about violence in games, but I dislike the attitude, the marketing, and all the HYPE that goes into making violence/western-style as a SELLING POINT, that i dislike, the EMPHAISIS put on it is unnecessary in order to make good sales of game software. The psychology around it is NOT a part of the actual game. It is a part of them trying to influence the SOCIETY. open the eyes. Some of developers are doing this without them noticing they're doing anything wrong or bad ... that's because they're them selfs infested with hollywood propaganda and all the celebrity crap in the west.

The sole idea of caring about celebrities daily life

That's the CLIFFB camera slut strategy - his twitter is FULL of stuff, he talks a lot, many people care ... so that's how he makes part of the marketing, he's exploiting his body to promote studio and games, not just his persona, but his dignity and whole public image ... how all he has to do is to rap a few rock-on strokes and he's in wonderland. I just don't like these spoiled rich-guy cribs attitudes, this was never part of gaming, it's uncalled for. Game developers used to behave and be respectable and have their word.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#6
One of the biggest arguments i might add is the fact of perception.
Just roughly:
It is not a surprize that all developers have some kind of bias more or less, due to their ignorance in other areas and fields, as well as general experience with the industry on a much wider basis, analzing all the factors, causes, reasons, results, side effects. Not all of these interviews reflect the true internal opinions of the companies.
He might well be missing his whole analysis motto by his perception that supposably claims japanese developers cant make good game features that westerners deeply depend upon.

The idea of multiplayer as a core feature has nothing to do with westerners itself, but its percieved by the specific society at large as such, the mainstream obviously. There are many people worldwide that do acknowledge themselfs the multiplayer at large being a core feature, some of them even as a secondary feature (bonus) depending on the genre, but they do not go crazy or give lower praise for some games that do not contain mp play, there are many different cases of where the reasons for not adding mp features was justifiable. Multiplayer is worldwide, its just in the west where the majority of this dumb mainstream market resides, who cant stand any game which has no multiplayer. And i will later explain another perception, this nationalized speaking for all idea of throwing all of the american gaming population in the same "westerners" bin. You will then see my true basis for the rants in above posts, those were mere personal ramblings towards the mainstream westerners, not all of the people.

-----------------------;--
portions of this post written out of sequence since i edit and add stuff later as this was work in progress ... as i cant bring my thoughts outnall at once. read this paragraph last,
but i could fix , the whole issue is mobile device ... not a lot of editing options here. i migt fix later when i get back to pc.
----
Plenty of detectable bias in cliffyb, he speaks for his market only, the avreage american x360 mainstreamer, many but not all, so he is speaking for all of the population then, that is an insult to the hardcore minority, failing to categorize it, acknowledge it .... etc. His interview is not an analysis at all, even how it might look like it. it is so one-sided. well its exactly what i ranted about, though i do believe some of it is strategical marketing, they dont tell you the whole picture, thats precisely why these interviews are so popular, they are targeted for the mainstream to read and most of them percieve it as the "good guy" or "our hero" effect describes, by playing with the target consumer as an emotion-laden ally and/or a "protector" in a way of forwarding, adapting their beliefs, opinions, (which are again all possible false perceptions that are basis of them) to your business side in the customer communication in this case ... just another way of marketing, very tactical and deceiving.
These people then praise their master how "correct" he is... this supposably good stuff then spreads and obviously conributes to company's exposure or brand's recognition ... > popularity > sales.
--------------------------

----------------------cont:
What he fails to notice is the other most possible cause, of what if japanese developers DONT want to focus on features that really only westerners solely depend upon.

Continuing, as you hear dev industry talk about how gamers skip singleplayer and go to multi ... but this is clearly spoken for the american market, its not only one reason of cause the most of the gaming industry in quantity is from western origin, they would speak for them selfs, but the pure nature of americans is very non-international from the lifestyle up; i dont believe some of them make these big interviews on a big site would automatically get credibility and out of the sudden be these "experts" on european market and other regions. And in this case its so much more obvious as we have such a topic, and the guy's past attitude doesnt help either.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the analysis, i have not even started closer examination of all the statements he said, and yet to finish the false perceptions explanations that are plaguing the whole industry, this here is jus one of the cases out of many.
Those rants hold water somehow, if you understand them ... not many, for some reason i need to blow off my steam pressure first, then i get to the actual constructive criticism and explanation.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,529 (0.46/day)
Likes
376
System Name Lailalo / Edelweiss
Processor FX 8320 @ 4.5Ghz / i7 3610QM @2.3-3.2Ghz
Motherboard ASrock 990FX Extreme 4 / Lenovo Y580
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus / Big hunk of copper
Memory 16GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 1600+ / 8GB Hyundai DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) XFX R9 390 / GTX 660M 2GB
Storage Seagate 3TB/1TB + OCZ Synapse 64GB SSD Cache / Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM
Display(s) LG Ultrawide 29in @ 2560x1080 / Lenovo 15.6 @ 1920x1080
Case Coolermaster Storm Sniper / Lenovo Y580
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DG / Whatever Lenovo used
Power Supply Antec Truepower Blue 750W + Thermaltake 5.25in 250W / Big Power Brick
Software Windows 10 Pro / Windows 10 Home
#7
The markets are too different. Japan shouldn't try to be western and the western devs shouldn't try to be Japan.

The studios and publishers just need to get their thumbs out of their butts on having to dub everything. We miss a lot of fantastic titles because they want only dubbed titles for the west.

This is a steaming load of bs. I've seen the anime industry here revive not because Funimation started bringing a bunch of titles here, but because other companies just started bringing plain subbed versions here. They are still very far behind where they should be, but it is nice to see new releases getting here within a year instead of 3-5 years. Don't have to download fansub shows much anymore because they are getting better at releasing.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
3,788 (0.96/day)
Likes
671
Location
Pompano beach, Florida
System Name HAL
Processor Core i7 4770k @ 4.6 ghz.
Motherboard Asus Maximus VII Hero
Cooling H80i Closed loop liquid cooling.
Memory 4x 4 (16) GB Corsair Vengeance ddr3 2133 @ 2200
Video Card(s) GTX 1080 FTW
Storage 256 GB Ocz V4 SSD "Thank you Kreij (Dean)" + 2x 1TB drives.
Display(s) 50" Samsung, UHD, 4k, 60hz.
Case Corsair Carbide MId tower
Audio Device(s) LG system through optical 5.1
Power Supply CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850M
Software Microsoft Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores Haven (3720), Cinebench (932)
#8
And this is a clear example of American conquest of dreaming of converting others into what they do.
Careful, your treading a fine line and you just insulted me, as well as my entire Country. Idc how you feel about America, I could tell you how I feel about Russia supporting Libya if you want.? Keep it to yourself please..

FYI I love the diversity the world offers and your assumption, every American is some evil doer, who wants to convert the world, is just.. sad..
 

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
13,817 (3.48/day)
Likes
5,524
Location
Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad QX9650 Extreme @ 3.0 GHz
Motherboard Asus Rampage Formula
Cooling ZeroTherm Nirvana NV120 Premium
Memory 8GB (4 x 2GB) Corsair Dominator PC2-8500
Video Card(s) 2 x Sapphire Radeon HD6970
Storage 2 x Seagate Barracuda 320GB in RAID 0
Display(s) Dell 3007WFP 30" LCD (2560 x 1600)
Case Thermaltake Armor w/ 250mm Side Fan
Audio Device(s) SupremeFX 8ch Audio
Power Supply Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Modular
Software Win8 Pro x64 / Cat 12.10
#9
What he fails to notice is the other most possible cause, of what if japanese developers DONT want to focus on features that really only westerners solely depend upon.
The Japanese devs probably don't, but the publishers sure do.
More market saturation = more money.

You say that these companies should not cater to western markets, but if you want a good position in that market you must. It has nothing to do where, it's how markets work worldwide.
You talk about multiplayer like it's a western specific thing, but worldwide, other countries are huge MP consumers, and saying that adding MP to a game is somehow a "westernization" of a game seems somewhat disingenuous.

Your turn.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
938 (0.44/day)
Likes
814
Location
Anchorage Alaska
System Name Matter's / Helios 300 Predator
Processor Intel i5 4690k / i7 7700HQ
Motherboard Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H / Acer Helios 300 Predator
Cooling Cooler Master Siedon 120 AIO
Memory 32gb PNY Anarchy DDR3 1866mhz / 32gb gskill ddr4
Video Card(s) GTX 1070 8gb FE / GTX 1060 6gb
Storage 2 240gb SSD PNY Optima ( 1 w/OS, other gaming) Storage - 1tb WD Black & 1.5tb Seagate
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster UHD U28D590 / 15.6 1080p HD
Case Antec 300 / Acer Helios 300 Predator
Audio Device(s) On Board - steel series siberia elite prism cans
Power Supply Antec 850watt high power
Mouse Logitech wireless Mouse / Steel series Sensei wireless
Keyboard Logitech wireless KB / Acer Helios 300 Predator
Software Win 10 Pro / Win 10 Home
#10
Y'all know what happens when you "assume" something right? . . .
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#11
Careful, your treading a fine line and you just insulted me, as well as my entire Country. Idc how you feel about America, I could tell you how I feel about Russia supporting Libya if you want.? Keep it to yourself please..

FYI I love the diversity the world offers and your assumption, every American is some evil doer, who wants to convert the world, is just.. sad..
That was only part of the rant .... the perceptions of how these general words are used is what intended to go into next and respond to other replies later tomorrow.
 

FreedomEclipse

~Technological Technocrat~
Joined
Apr 20, 2007
Messages
17,147 (4.41/day)
Likes
5,299
Location
London,UK
System Name Codename: Rapture X Mk.VI {Still....MoonPig Edition}
Processor Intel 3930k@4.5Ghz
Motherboard Asus P9X79 PRO
Cooling Corsair H105 {2x Corsair ML 120 Pro}|VRM: Antec Spotcool 100
Memory 32GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX Beast 2400Mhz {8x4GB}
Video Card(s) MSI 1070 Gaming X (Samsung)
Storage 512GB Samsung 850 Pro (Boot)|1x 512GB Crucial MX100|2x 3TB Toshiba DT01ACA300
Display(s) Asus PB278Q 27"
Case Corsair 760T (White) {1x140mm NB PK-3, 2x Corsair AF140}
Audio Device(s) Creative SB Z {Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 }
Power Supply Corsair AX760
Mouse Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum
Keyboard Duckyshine Dead LED(s) III
Software Windows 7 7600 x64
Benchmark Scores ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)
#12
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,442 (1.00/day)
Likes
1,866
#13
The Japanese devs probably don't, but the publishers sure do.
More market saturation = more money.

You say that these companies should not cater to western markets, but if you want a good position in that market you must. It has nothing to do where, it's how markets work worldwide.
You talk about multiplayer like it's a western specific thing, but worldwide, other countries are huge MP consumers, and saying that adding MP to a game is somehow a "westernization" of a game seems somewhat disingenuous.

Your turn.
+1

Cliff B tries to make the point that western audiences have different tastes, generally speaking, than Japanese audiences. Where is the harm in stating what is obvious?

Yes, video game companies (traditional ones) want to appeal to a large market. The people running the companies want to sell lots of copies, so they can afford to fund the next project. Is there a problem there? The smaller niche games get produced, because the bigger games sell like crazy. Simple thought process there, as everyone has to pay bills.

And before you comment, what is the biggest game in South Korea? It sure as heck isn't a single player game. Starcraft is a multiplayer game, with a single player training simulator. So, unsurprisingly, western developers have catered to "eastern" gamers.


Perhaps I am going about this wrong. You obviously think this is a form of greed, which corrupts the "pure" Japanese market. I've got news for you. Japanese developers see more sales in the west than they do at home, so apparently western gamers consume eastern games, and the reverse. The Japanese market could not function without western consumption. If you're against that, then this is a discussion about capitalism and not about video games.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#14
You talk about multiplayer like it's a western specific thing, but worldwide, other countries are huge MP consumers, and saying that adding MP to a game is somehow a "westernization" of a game seems somewhat disingenuous.
That's his perception I was talking about. I was then totaly against this idea so I pretty much deny this accusation, people having trouble understanding my posts is nothing new, guess it's my english or what.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,286 (0.93/day)
Likes
528
Location
Burlington, VT
Processor Intel i5-2500k
Motherboard MSI P67A-GD65
Cooling Deep Cool Gammax 400
Memory 8GB (4x2GB) G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX 1060 Windforce OC 6GB
Storage Samsung EVO 850 256GB / WD Caviar Black 1TB
Display(s) Acer GD235HZbid 120hz LCD
Case Rosewill Challenger Mid-Tower
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair 650W 650-TX
Software Windows 10
#15
Cliff B tries to make the point that western audiences have different tastes, generally speaking, than Japanese audiences. Where is the harm in stating what is obvious?
This is something a lot of people are just now realizing. A great example is the PS Vita, which is an excellent system, but only sells a few thousand units a week in Japan. The PSP sold well and trailed off after each release of Monster Hunter. Bottom line, Japan for some reason loves Monster Hunter games, enough to drive system sales. Japan will buy any system that has a Monster Hunter or Pokemon game on it, and that's about it. The Wii sold a ton, as did MHTri, the DS sold a bazillion copes, as did the Pokemon games released with it.

The Japanese market is something that really annoys me, because analysts look at how things sell in Japan and use it as an indicator of their overall quality, when the Western Market is a lot larger, and more indicative of consumer desires. You can see the difference in everything, jRPG's vs. Western RPG's wouldn't exist if it weren't for the target audiences having different taste. MMORPG's from the East are generally all centered around grinding with minimal storyline, but as the West is evolving, games like SWTOR and TSW are making the story a huge part of MMORPG's.

Different Cultures are Different. Bottom Line.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,652 (0.51/day)
Likes
234
Location
slovenia , europe
System Name 2013Plus
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 @ 4.1 GHz OC
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 24GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD 840 Pro, WD1002FAEX,4xWD10EZEX,2xWDGreen2TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz (prev. Asus VG278 144Hz)
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Antec Edge 550W
Mouse Mad Catz RAT5
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64
#16
Cliff B tries to make the point that western audiences have different tastes, generally speaking, than Japanese audiences. Where is the harm in stating what is obvious?
No. He throws all of the americans in the same "westerners" bin. This is the next point of the debate. He only sees the majority of those X360 crazy pimped COD kids. But he tries to dump all of the other in the same bin. Most of these people don't acknowledge other successful examples, the mainstream developers ignore it, they ignore Starcraft 2 pretty much ... it's just a handful of turely passionate people that actually are holding up the hardcore communities, these don't talk much, if provoked they are very powerful, but they don't have the steady presence the dumb mainstream does which dilutes the media's public view and opinions and makes developers confused or very dependand on what some idiot in an commercial article on a crappy site said. There are many stupid people in the industry as they are in the market, but these actually behave like they're some kind of all-know professionals just because they work there, just look your avreage game developer who comes from college ...

Im not going to offense but it just looks like so many people in the mainstream bracket are also much less experienced on top ... compared to other regions.

In Europe you have your manners, if you don't know something, you must know you don't know, you shouldn't comment it,you shouldn't ask stupid questions in public, you don't spread bullshit therefore. Almost 70% of the worlds bullcrap on the internet comes from the united states ... go to alexa.com and check out the nationalities in visitors for stuff like funnyjunk and 4chan ... but that's not the point now, it's hard to find an esitmate of how many sites, developers, industry people, know everything about nothing and spread bullshit thinking they're some professional guys. Just look twitter, there are so many self-guided know-how jerks of releasing hourly opinions and news and supposably their "knowledge" while they ask questions such as "What is this Diablo 3 game everyone's talking about" - a complete idiot ... i would kick this people out of the industry, the self-policing of the gaming industry is gone, we're been infested by mainstream corruption!

There are many different people, i would say the ratio is farily big as to how many hardcore people there really are in there, there are, but it's overshadowed by this big mainstream presence.

There are many people ... they just don't have this presence and I am pretty sure nobody of them is going to notice and come by this thread to give me some credit.

There's also another thing that these developers awlays looks as europe being the same opinior or similar market ... well stuff is getting PUSHED here that's why something get's through, more so in lower age demographies who play every shit thrown at them, but i honestly never enoyed western style games, I rarely enjoyed a western game except the gameplay which is what I care about and can cope to ignore other things. I can't say that for nintendo first-parties.

I would never play Gears of War ever because the other stuff is distracting and I probably couldn't cope with loads of cutscenes ... im not here to watch hollywood movies.


And i don't like this throwing in the same bin stuff, it's low, it's unprofessional and it's just a mind of a mainstream. As you assumed, this was his perception of westerners being all of the USA, nope, not a chance, it's his perception of his market he's trying to exploit. He doesn't know how to provide services the hardcore market

EPIC games has really never provided the hardcore, they made mods of quake, great, then they shit on the whole community I WAS THERE AND ON FORUMS I REMEMBER IT ALL. (UT3 times)

EPIC Games was a weak studio, mentally, very cheap, they were the first ones to be corrputed by the growing corporate console dumbed-down business of stuff like EKS-BAKS-THREE-SIXTY (what a faggy word it is, bleh)

ID Software .. truth to be told, wen't down as well, so much for 5 years of Carmack's focusing, he found out they made a terrible mistake of developing for consoles like X360 and PS3 since the PC hardware is going up fast.
http://www.gamepur.com/news/5668-carmack-developing-rage-consoles-was-big-mistake.html


He admitted that, but later when RAGE Shipped the guy actually switched back to the failed mentality and tried to prove a point of PC gamers not buying enough games - as he TECHNICALLY REALIZED it doesn't go that way of making games for the CRAPPY system than trying to make it work on the BEST system, but it goes both way, if you develop games for the CRAPPY market, how do you expect it will work without putting much effort on the BEST market.

Ofcourse PC doesn't sell if you MAKE A CRAP GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE AND MARKET IT AS SUCH WHICH IS NOT COOL ON PC -- Stuff like puttin some non-international CELEBZ in a trailer. Im not saying Rage was at all that bad, it does have dev console so I don't care for UI-options but the point is the Bethesda publishing did nothing to promote the game on PC ... why they would, they know it doesn't have chance, they know it's nothing that will blow anyone away, at least on first glance, the tech behind it is very impressive but you need to be one of the minority again to notice it.

Just give me a break ... just look Diablo 3 launch ... just look of the coming SC2HOTS ... blizzard is always blizzard

Until Doom 4 i will have to chategorize ID Software as "asleep" as hopefully they get back into their minds again.
Then we'll see what Respawn Entertainment does ...
There's Blizzard and Nintendo ... as well as Relic coming in with Company of Heroes 2.
There are also a number of non-bullshitters that do their on job, i can't list all of them but they make great games overall but do not talk as airheaded as you see others.

But for the rest of the mainstream gaming industry just GTFO, their statements, their interviews, their opinions, all irrelevant, all an diluted perception, all an fabricated illusion, has no significance for the legacy, has no significance for example to keep a in recordbook as the memorable history.

Best Article this year:
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ole-will-be-a-true-blizzard-level-experience/

Which is again only a possiblity, the days after, Blizzard confirmed they don't really have anything running on consoles. Probably targeting next-gen, hopefully we don't see it on these current machines the worse console generation ever, the failed duo.
 
Last edited: