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Open world games get my CPU hot. Will better heatsink help or just nature of the chip?

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I have an ID cooling SE-225-xt in a push pull config. It's got 5 direct contact heatpipes (I know not always best vs plate) and overall it keeps my CPU very cool under a multitude of stress tests (CB23, P95, OCCT, etc.) Like usually well below 70c for most tests. Lately I've been dipping back into FarCry5 and Minecraft (kids) and even with ~40% usage, it will sometimes get my chip to 77-78c. I know this is well within spec for a Ryzen 5600X which is apparently good up to 95c before thermal throttle limits are reached but just curious if a different style cooler will help or if this is just the nature of the small die area on Zen 2 chiplets.
 
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Without knowing ambient temps it will be hard to judge the performance of the current config and compare it to other possible scenarios, also what is the fan speed like when you get 77-78c ? Thermal paste used ? I think there could be improvements not sure how much because a lot of details go into this
 
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I'm not convinced that ambient temperature will alter CPU temperature more than a couple of degrees Celsius in a properly ventilated case. That's why a lot of PC hardware reviews include measurements of temperature above ambient when they test cooling products.

For sure the small die area is not the cause of OP's heat dissipation issues.

I have the 5600X (PBO enabled, no other overclocking) in one of my builds (custom cooling loop with an Alphacool block being cooled by a Primochill 120mm radiator) and it maxes out at 56 °C during a Cinebench R23 run or Handbrake encode. It does not reach this temperature during gaming. This is in a case (NZXT H210) that is far smaller than OP's Phanteks P400A case. The GPU (2070 Super FE) also has a full-length Alphacool waterblock being cooled by a separate Primochill 240mm radiator in the same loop.

During gaming, the GPU is the component that is generating the most heat. The GPU is heating up the air in the case which is contributing to the CPU's higher temperatures during gaming. OP did not mention how the case fans are configured but it looks like more aggressive case airflow and exhaust would help with this. If not already installed I would put two 120mm fans in the case top for exhaust.

I've used this same CPU in other builds with other cooling solutions. Notably, I had this in a micro-ATX build with an EVGA CLC11 120mm AIO and the 5600X maxed out at 68 °C (again Cinebench/Handbrake) which is very close to OP's 70 °C (under testing). For eight months of the year, the ambient temperature in my place is 22-25 °C. All of the maximum temperatures I've listed here were taken during on warmer summer day (since that's the good time to tweak fan curves).

That said, 78 °C is not a cause for alarm. If OP is happy with the fan acoustics then no alteration would be recommended.
 
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That depends on Airflow, have you cleaned your cooler lately? Pull it, clean it, and repaste.

Also, you prolly need more airflow. If you didnt add any fans and its still 3 intake and 1 exhaust, adding a 2nd exhaust fan will help a bit.
 
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I have an ID cooling SE-225-xt in a push pull config. It's got 5 direct contact heatpipes (I know not always best vs plate) and overall it keeps my CPU very cool under a multitude of stress tests (CB23, P95, OCCT, etc.) Like usually well below 70c for most tests. Lately I've been dipping back into FarCry5 and Minecraft (kids) and even with ~40% usage, it will sometimes get my chip to 77-78c. I know this is well within spec for a Ryzen 5600X which is apparently good up to 95c before thermal throttle limits are reached but just curious if a different style cooler will help or if this is just the nature of the small die area on Zen 2 chiplets.
Based on your description here, I think you're ok! Maybe get into the BIOS and set your PWM fan speeds a bit higher if you're willing to trade better cooling for a little bit extra fan noise.
 
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A good cooler for your CPU will always make it live longer.

I like the side effect of a good cooler that the pc is silent, i would not ramp up fan speed on the cost of a more poluted audio enviroment.
 

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The first thing to ask on a topic like this is do you have your fan curve set to allow those temps? I find most motherboards out of the box prioritize lower fan speeds and allow the temps to get a little warmer. So if you want cooler temps, adjust your fan speeds first.
 
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Sorry, I didn't give a lot of critical info in my OP. Cooler is brand new, case is brand new and has full frontal mesh panel. Cooling are two front 140mm Arctics, one top rear 140mm arctic exhaust, and a 120mm basic Phanteks fan on the rear exhaust. Ambient is around 23-24C with a light breeze in the room from a fan on the other end. I have custom fan curves set for ALL fans. Every case fan can get up to 100% but I limit the CPU push pull fans to 90% max because they can get a bit high pitched. Thermal paste is the included paste that came with the cooler. I have some MX4 but I don't think that's going to make more than a 1C difference.

Cinebench R23 I boost to around 4.4GHz all core and get a score of 11087 with max temp of 72c. (R23 is worst case all core scenario for my PC, Prime95 nor OCCT get it even close to as hot)
 
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78C is perfectly fine, especially if you have PBO enabled.

You're in a bad place if it's throttling, then worry about it but otherwise it's fine. Get a better cooler if you're tired of fan noise a 280mm aio or a gigantic noctua for the peace and quiet.
 
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78C is perfectly fine, especially if you have PBO enabled.

You're in a bad place if it's throttling, then worry about it but otherwise it's fine. Get a better cooler if you're tired of fan noise a 280mm aio or a gigantic noctua for the peace and quiet.
I had PBO enabled but have moved to a +200MHz boost instead. Do I have that correct that PBO is more for productivity (all core boost) vs OC +200 is better for gaming and lightly threaded tasks?
 
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I had PBO enabled but have moved to a +200MHz boost instead. Do I have that correct that PBO is more for productivity (all core boost) vs OC +200 is better for gaming and lightly threaded tasks?

It really depends -- best way to figure that out is with some testing... I find all core to be better since modern games tend to load all cores, but it's up to what you run and how well the PBO works for your chip/mobo combo.
 
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I've been really tempted by the Scythe Fuma 2. Dual tower, comes with 2 low noise Scythe fans and it's $60.
 

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If this is off the Tctl/Tdie sensor in HWInfo, the numbers are pretty much meaningless. Honestly, I've seen spikes all the time on Tctl/Tdie, CCD temps, and per-core temps, so if it's not constantly pegged at 78C, wouldn't worry.

Zen 3 gaming temperatures are absolutely ALL over the place due to the variability of the boost algorithm. You won't even see the same temps in the same game with the same scenes every day.

Some games that draw a lot of per-core power (ie. 15W+) also tend to occasionally spike Tctl/Tdie on the order of 5C, 10C, even 15C spikes momentarily. If it's usually sitting around 60C but you see ONE spike to 75C, that doesn't mean you're at 75C in that game.

Everything is a bit better under water. On air, everything is magnified a bit, but the principles aren't drastically different.

For example, I have a number of games that usually hang out in the 60C region, but once in a while will see a spike to 70C+ and that will be recorded in HWInfo as the max temp when I check a few hours later. It's a Zen 3 thing. It doesn't mean anything unless it's ACTUALLY staying at 78C all the time.

Modded Minecraft and MW2019 are the two games for me that will hit 80C regularly on Tctl/Tdie even if the other sensors don't reflect that on my 5900X. The other games can spike to 75-77C once in a while.

Paste can make a bit of a difference, but it's about 1C for me between MX-4 and NT-H2, wouldn't consider it a factor. Also, isn't that SE225XT basically at 212 Black-level performance? Adequate but don't expect miracles out of it.

You won't see spikes in all-core, it's more likely to get unpredictable under high freq boost, high ST Vcore, or high per-core power draw.
 
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I'm tempted to say you should just disable PBO if you don't want high temperatures. Unless you've manually disabled it in the BIOS, most boards that support PBO have it on "auto" which means "on" for a 5600X.

The difference between stock operation (regular PB) and PBO is probably only about 100MHz on air cooling. That's going to have a negligible benefit in games, but it will have a pretty severe impact in power consumption and temperatures. How much extra power your 5600X pulls with PBO depends largely on the silicon lottery and to a lesser extent your motherboard. PBO basically lets the CPU use 20-50% more power, more typically it's around 30% more.

At 30% more heat for 2-3% more performance, unless you have a really good reason for making that tradeoff, I suggest you don't.

If it makes you feel any better, I turned off PBO on my 5800X and lost around 2.5% performance in Cinebench R23, and that's on an Alphacool waterblock, not an air cooler; Zen2/Zen3's regular PB is already poking diminishing returns so overclocking (PBO or manual all-core) is at that point paying a lot for almost nothing in return.
 
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If this is off the Tctl/Tdie sensor in HWInfo, the numbers are pretty much meaningless. Honestly, I've seen spikes all the time on Tctl/Tdie, CCD temps, and per-core temps, so if it's not constantly pegged at 78C, wouldn't worry.

Zen 3 gaming temperatures are absolutely ALL over the place due to the variability of the boost algorithm. You won't even see the same temps in the same game with the same scenes every day.

Some games that draw a lot of per-core power (ie. 15W+) also tend to occasionally spike Tctl/Tdie on the order of 5C, 10C, even 15C spikes momentarily. If it's usually sitting around 60C but you see ONE spike to 75C, that doesn't mean you're at 75C in that game.

Everything is a bit better under water. On air, everything is magnified a bit, but the principles aren't drastically different.

For example, I have a number of games that usually hang out in the 60C region, but once in a while will see a spike to 70C+ and that will be recorded in HWInfo as the max temp when I check a few hours later. It's a Zen 3 thing. It doesn't mean anything unless it's ACTUALLY staying at 78C all the time.

Modded Minecraft and MW2019 are the two games for me that will hit 80C regularly on Tctl/Tdie even if the other sensors don't reflect that on my 5900X. The other games can spike to 75-77C once in a while.

Paste can make a bit of a difference, but it's about 1C for me between MX-4 and NT-H2, wouldn't consider it a factor. Also, isn't that SE225XT basically at 212 Black-level performance? Adequate but don't expect miracles out of it.

You won't see spikes in all-core, it's more likely to get unpredictable under high freq boost, high ST Vcore, or high per-core power draw.
Thanks, that helps. I figured it was a Zen 3 thing. I am completely fine with the way it is. A few games spike to mid 70's maybe 77 or 78 and that's about it. I have PBO disabled but a +200MHz on the boost. So playing games I see 4.7GHz or so sustained.
The ID cooling SE-225-XT is a bit better than a H212 imho. 5th extra heatpipe plus push pull fans. Maybe you are thinking of the 224-XT. That thing is a beast that beats out the 212 as well.
 

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Thanks, that helps. I figured it was a Zen 3 thing. I am completely fine with the way it is. A few games spike to mid 70's maybe 77 or 78 and that's about it. I have PBO disabled but a +200MHz on the boost. So playing games I see 4.7GHz or so sustained.
The ID cooling SE-225-XT is a bit better than a H212 imho. 5th extra heatpipe plus push pull fans. Maybe you are thinking of the 224-XT. That thing is a beast that beats out the 212 as well.

So roundabout U12S performance then.

Honestly, moving to the Fuma 2 could go either way. On one hand, direct heatpipe contact makes for pretty inconsistent QC. On the other hand, because it's a single tower with north-south heatpipes the SE-225-XT is theoretically thermally better suited for chiplet Ryzens (but at the same time, you only have 1 CCD). From the spec sheet alone it doesn't look like the Fuma 2 has that much more heatsink mass either.

Are you running Curve Optimizer right now? A significant undervolt (at least -15) is allegedly supposed to lower ST temps noticeably. CO basically doesn't improve any other aspect of thermals but it seems reasonable to assume it could lower gaming temps.

Anecdotally, most air coolers seem to hit similar 1- or 2-core heavy gaming temp on Ryzen 5000. Must be a thermal density thing, I always hit the same 80C in MW2019 on my NH-C14S (and if others are to be believed, BFV as well) as everyone with NH-D15s on their 5900X complain about. So while I'd expect better MT load temps from a better air cooler, I'd set my expectations low for ST temps.
 
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Its not uncommon to see single core temps in gaming of 80C and up on air. My 8700K has them too. And beyond.
 

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Its not uncommon to see single core temps in gaming of 80C and up on air. My 8700K has them too. And beyond.
Yeah, and new AMD CPUs do run hot, still there's nothing to worry about that.

For my 3600, 80+ temps aren't that rare even with watercooling, though my case kinda sucks with its bad airflow. Still not worried tho.
 

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I have an ID cooling SE-225-xt in a push pull config. It's got 5 direct contact heatpipes (I know not always best vs plate) and overall it keeps my CPU very cool under a multitude of stress tests (CB23, P95, OCCT, etc.) Like usually well below 70c for most tests. Lately I've been dipping back into FarCry5 and Minecraft (kids) and even with ~40% usage, it will sometimes get my chip to 77-78c. I know this is well within spec for a Ryzen 5600X which is apparently good up to 95c before thermal throttle limits are reached but just curious if a different style cooler will help or if this is just the nature of the small die area on Zen 2 chiplets.

What is your room temperature?
 
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2 solutions: Curveoptimizer, if you set pbo to 0MHz you can probably do - 30 on all cores. Also setting a tdp limit at 65W instead of default 76W will only reduce all core frequency by 200MHz, but lower temps quite a bit.

Stock on my 5600X I get temps around 75C in CB23, and 65-70C in demanding games. With curve optimizer - 30 and +50MHz pbo temps are about 5C lower. I now run moneromining and set tdp-limit to 45W, max temp during stress is now 55C. Stock allcore frequency is about 4400, with CO - 30 its 4550, both at 76W, with 45W limit it's 3700. Single core is unaffected by tdp limit.
 
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What is your room temperature?
Irrelevant in OP's situation.

He reported 70 °C during a CPU benchmark (while the GPU is basically idle) and 78 °C during gaming (when the GPU should be around 100% load). It's the graphics card (~200W TDP) that is increasing the internal case temperature because it's pumping out a lot of heat.

Again, when PC hardware reviewers test cooling solutions the knowledgeable ones include measurements of deltas above ambient. It's not like a 2 degree Celsius ambient temperature difference is going to result in a 8 degree Celsius increase in the CPU temperature. That's not how physics works.

Remember that prebuilt computers and other electronic devices have a recommended operating temperature range that is typically quite wide.

For example here's what Apple says for the latest iMac 24"

Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)

Source: Apple

OP's CPU is not near AMD's maximum temperature for this part.
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
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Ambient is around 23-24C, post 8 ;)
76-78°F, the 78 is too close...

Blowing hot air on already hot parts just makes them hotter.
 
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76-78°F, the 78 is too close...

Blowing hot air on already hot parts just makes them hotter.
That depends. If the "hot" air being blown on the parts needing cooling is cooler than the parts themselves, the difference will still cause a cooling effect.

For example, if 90F(32C) air was being blown on parts that are 160F(71C), the thermal differential will provide a cooling effect. Granted, that effect will not be optimal, but it will still be effective cooling.

Remember, what is "hot" to us humans is still cool to the vast majority of PC parts. 78F(25C) is nothing to electronics in general.
 
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Yeah, and new AMD CPUs do run hot, still there's nothing to worry about that.

For my 3600, 80+ temps aren't that rare even with watercooling, though my case kinda sucks with its bad airflow. Still not worried tho.
This!
I have 360mm radiator and big cooling block on my 3600, still it goes way up to 80c.
 
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