P102-100 mining cards

[T4C Fantasy]

I think the main reason why ppl say mining affects gamers is because people buy so many gpus to mine in so little time leaving stocks to go out temporarily it hikes up prices, its just a stock thing

 

[cdawall]

How difficult would be to incorporte some in chip design that tracks total power on time for GPUs? We have those for both HDD and SSD. Should not be too difficult for GPU. Then you can easily tell mining cards apart from gaming cards because nobody games 24*7*365

I left my gaming desktop on with steam's 3D screensavers going 24/7, so should I have no warranty because of it?

 

[moproblems99]

I left my gaming desktop on with steam's 3D screensavers going 24/7, so should I have no warranty because of it?

I don't get it with these mining warranty voids. Do you build a product to operate with these specs or not? If temp is in check, who cares? Besides, not like the things get undervolted anyway.

EDIT: Removed sarcasm.

 

[xkm1948]

What I mean by adding extra power on timer counter is not for warranty purpose. No. It is for deterring people who always mine with gaming GPUs. Of course all of my prediction is based on Nvidia/AMD does release a mining specific GPU. Adding the power on timer can potentially limit the resale value of gaming GPU used for mining. This way these half time miners will be forced to go with mining specific GPUs.

All my reasoning is to separate the two market segments. The current state is miners see exploitation of gaming GPUs for quick money. Once the market is actually segmented with specific product line targeted for both sides both miners and gamers will be happy.

This is just like evolution. You see a niche in the ecosystem and you fill that niche with specific species. One size fit all never works in long term. If mining is truly to stay around (which I definitely have my reservations) then segment out the market would be the best thing to do.

 

[R-T-B]

What I mean by adding extra power on timer counter is not for warranty purpose. No. It is for deterring people who always mine with gaming GPUs. Of course all of my prediction is based on Nvidia/AMD does release a mining specific GPU. Adding the power on timer can potentially limit the resale value of gaming GPU used for mining. This way these half time miners will be forced to go with mining specific GPUs.

Honestly, the sale isn't even factored into the average miners purchase, so it won't make any difference. ROI is calculated at cost, not cost and "what I can get." No one does that.

The only way mining specific GPUs can ever take off is if they offer a better performance per watt, obsoleting non-mining GPUs for the same purpose.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

Honestly, the sale isn't even factored into the average miners purchase, so it won't make any difference. ROI is calculated at cost, not cost and "what I can get." No one does that.

The only way mining specific GPUs can ever take off is if they offer a better performance per watt, obsoleting non-mining GPUs for the same purpose.

They already took off though, they have more stock than normal gpus because there is more bulk, p106 took off hardcore and well with 300k p104s taking off in a month its crazy.

 

[xkm1948]

Hardware level limited gaming GPU, mining optimized mining GPU. Plus the power on timer. Mining on gaming segment GPU will be unprofitable before you know it.

 

[hat]

I'm not a fan of atrifically gimping the capability of hardware like that. If they want to produce mining specific GPUs, they can and should do so by making them cheaper and doing optimizing the cards for that purpose. They can get away with using less than perfect hardware for mining, so it might also be a good way to put otherwise bad parts to use.

 

[moproblems99]

Hardware level limited gaming GPU, mining optimized mining GPU. Plus the power on timer. Mining on gaming segment GPU will be unprofitable before you know it.

I don't believe this is even possible. Well, it's possible but I think it would have too much negative impacts on gaming performance.

 

[R-T-B]

They already took off though, they have more stock than normal gpus because there is more bulk, p106 took off hardcore and well with 300k p104s taking off in a month its crazy.

I meant "take off" as in seperately in their own segment apart from gaming cards.

I don't believe this is even possible. Well, it's possible but I think it would have too much negative impacts on gaming performance.

Ditto. To do it, you'd have to kill compute, which would kill compute centric performance like Elite Dangerous's planet surfaces.

I would be one very angry gamer if you guys got those taken away just for cheap GPUs.

 

[xkm1948]

We shall see. With crypto mining any half wit can come up with a new algorithm and brand it as a new coin. It is like printing your own free money. Short term gain for some individuals yes. Not sustainable in the long run. They are all gonna be trash, digital trash. At least when a paper curreny crashes i can burn the bills for warms. With these digital trash it wont have any value.

 

[R-T-B]

They are all gonna be trash, digital trash. At least when a paper curreny crashes i can burn the bills for warms. With these digital trash it wont have any value.

Most of them are ALREADY trash. You'd be surprised how many coins have been born and died over the years.

That said, I do not believe all of them are going to be trash. Not at all.

 

[xkm1948]

Most of them are ALREADY trash. You'd be surprised how many coins have been born and died over the years.

That said, I do not believe all of them are going to be trash. Not at all.

We agree to disagree

 

[R-T-B]

We agree to disagree

No surprise but fair enough.

 

[verycharbroiled]

power on time for gpus? i leave most of my system up 24/7 (non miner systems) so that seems unfair. those systems see their gpus at idle 80% of their life.

and my miners are treated much more gentle than my gaming rig gpus. the game rigs have cases, some have been sli/xfire which can really get the cards toastly and ive seen gpu temps much higher than my miners, which are often undervloted and underclocked, plus have much better airflow than cards in a game rig.

i prefer electronics to stay a constant temp with constant power on, rather than temp cycling up and down all over the place and have power on/off cycles in the hundreds.

electronics like constant temps because of expansion/contraction due to thermal effects.

my btc gpus i mined on in 2011-2013 (6870, 5830s) stayed on for years 24/7. and before that my folding @ home cards (gtx 8800s) did the same. 24/7/365. worse that happened was a fan failure on an asus 6870.

good psus, good cooling, sane clocks and volts = happy and long lasting gpus, not matter what the use. gaming, crunching, hashing, rendering.. its all the same to a gpu.

some gamers truly beat the snots out of their cards, cramped crowded cases with poor airflow, overclocked/overvolted to within an inch of their life.

not saying there are not miner who beat the crap outta their cards, but many of us do not. please to not lump us all together.

btw i do not sell my cards, when no longer profitable to run i give them to friends/family as upgrades to their game systems,. suddenly getting a free 570, 1070ti, 1080ti etc to replace an aging 660 or something always brings a smile to their face.

 

[r9]

I've be mining since June. Up to 20 cards now. Knock in wood, but I haven't had a single component die on me GPU or anything else.
Like what many people before me said keep the cards cool and they will last very very long time.
Gaming is way more destructive than mining to the components.
Heating the card into 80s C than cooling it down than heat it up again causes way more stress to the components.
Because of all the different materials used in those parts all having different thermal expansion coefficient.
And that 3 month warranty is just manufacturers using mining as an excuse.
Miners are too eager to get their hands on more cards and 3 months warranty is just saying that you are buying working product.
It's like saying you get 1 year warranty if you game just couple hours a day and 3 months if you game on it 24h a day.
That is BS. If the warranty is x amount of time its up to me if I want to use it an hour or 25 hours a day.
Otherwise they should put a timer and give warranty in hours of use.

What I mean by adding extra power on timer counter is not for warranty purpose. No. It is for deterring people who always mine with gaming GPUs. Of course all of my prediction is based on Nvidia/AMD does release a mining specific GPU. Adding the power on timer can potentially limit the resale value of gaming GPU used for mining. This way these half time miners will be forced to go with mining specific GPUs.

All my reasoning is to separate the two market segments. The current state is miners see exploitation of gaming GPUs for quick money. Once the market is actually segmented with specific product line targeted for both sides both miners and gamers will be happy.

This is just like evolution. You see a niche in the ecosystem and you fill that niche with specific species. One size fit all never works in long term. If mining is truly to stay around (which I definitely have my reservations) then segment out the market would be the best thing to do.

View attachment 97350

To separate the mining from gaming market plain and simple you need ASIC.
And the only ones that have the technology to make ASIC like device for the more advanced algorithms are AMD and NVIDIA.
And all it gonna do is bring the difficulty up make GPU useless ergo separate the market.
And once again AMD and NVIDIA will split the ASIC market.
And they'll end up the in same position that they are now minus the billion dollars spent in r&d.
So no separating the market for you my son.

I guarantee that the new products especially from Nvidia will be even more optimized for mining.
While they are not crazy to go into ASIC war they are not dumb to ignore the mining market.

 

[xkm1948]

For you “gentle miners” that baby your GPU this should not affect anything for tou guys. You are not planning to sell your cards and don’t care about warranty(gentle!!) then why does it hurt to add a power on timer?

I mean real miners should cheer for the detailed segmentation of products right? Now you may get way efficient mining cards. And gamers will no longer suffer from lack of gaming GPUs. It is a win-win. Only those who hope to recover investments by selling their mining GPU to gamers hope the two markets never separate.

I have little knowledge in chip design and i can think of the total power on timer. I feel confident enough that both Nvidia and AMD know this option as well. Hey using another inappropriate car analogy: warranty expires in xxx months or xxxxx miles. Same thing here, just for GPUs this time around. This is capitalism self correcting.

 

[moproblems99]

For you “gentle miners” that baby your GPU this should not affect anything for tou guys. You are not planning to sell your cards and don’t care about warranty(gentle!!) then why does it hurt to add a power on timer?

What about crunchers or anyone else that doesn't mine but has a high power timer? Your crusade will burn them too.

Edit:

This is capitalism self correcting.

Actually, you are watching capitalism doing it's thing and figuring out what the market value of a graphics card is. Astronomical apparently.

 

[FireFox]

why is there only a 3 month warranty?

Because they know you are making money and can afford 1 card or 2 every 3 months lmao

 

[cdawall]

I don't get it with these mining warranty voids. Do you build a product to operate with these specs or not? If temp is in check, who cares? Besides, not like the things get undervolted anyway.

EDIT: Removed sarcasm.

My gaming cards got run way harder than my miners. Higher clocks, overvolted, long periods of times at those clocks vs miners which are underclocked cores, undervolted etc.

They already took off though, they have more stock than normal gpus because there is more bulk, p106 took off hardcore and well with 300k p104s taking off in a month its crazy.

That was just Gigabyte models from a single seller talking with some people in the industry I can't even put a number on how many total went. It definitely seems like they shut down the gaming line up for a while to make them though.

 

[xkm1948]

What about crunchers or anyone else that doesn't mine but has a high power timer? Your crusade will burn them too.

My suggestion is the power on timer is only used for gaming GPUs' warranty as well as potential resale value. Everything I suggest is to deter miners buying gaming GPUs for mining. If you buy your specific computing(mining) GPU then that power on counter no longer applies to you. Only people gonna be hurt by this are those who wish to continue exploiting gaming GPU for cash incomes and some safety net for resale value. Any serious miner or cruncher would not be hurt by this at all.

 

[moproblems99]

My suggestion is the power on timer is only used for gaming GPUs' warranty as well as potential resale value. Everything I suggest is to deter miners buying gaming GPUs for mining. If you buy your specific computing(mining) GPU then that power on counter no longer applies to you. Only people gonna be hurt by this are those who wish to continue exploiting gaming GPU for cash incomes and some safety net for resale value. Any serious miner or cruncher would not be hurt by this at all.

I don't even...

 

[xkm1948]

I don't even...

Then don’t, miner.

 

[cdawall]

My suggestion is the power on timer is only used for gaming GPUs' warranty as well as potential resale value. Everything I suggest is to deter miners buying gaming GPUs for mining. If you buy your specific computing(mining) GPU then that power on counter no longer applies to you. Only people gonna be hurt by this are those who wish to continue exploiting gaming GPU for cash incomes and some safety net for resale value. Any serious miner or cruncher would not be hurt by this at all.

And anyone who uses their GPU for anything. I mean god forbid someone used their GPU for games for any extended period of time.

Never understood people who want to add more limitations. Normally they are the same group who complain when there is a limitation they don't like later implemented.

 

[T4C Fantasy]

And anyone who uses their GPU for anything. I mean god forbid someone used their GPU for games for any extended period of time.

Never understood people who want to add more limitations. Normally they are the same group who complain when there is a limitation they don't like later implemented.

if folding gave you money would mining even be a thing? because atleast with folding it goes to a cause.