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PC sales see 'longest decline' in history

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#51
I doubt it. Many people bought the first wave of "HD-Ready" TVs, only to find out that when HD content was available, their TV wasn't actually HD-capable.


4K panels will get the same reception as 3D TVs. It'll just be a fad until they are sub-$750 USD for a 45-inch panel. That is far off still.
The only problem I can see with that is the amount it would cost for sufficient GPU hardware to run games with decent settings and FPS at that res.
 
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#52
Let's take a broader perspective for just a moment here.

Computers cost an arm and a leg when they were first released. As the features developed, pricing dropped. Eventually, the pre-built market brought in $500 and less models. They didn't have all the features, but they introduced people to a whole new world at an affordable price.

Some people latched on to computers (see these forums). In doing so, they created a test market that would pay to be the beta testers for the pre-built market. It meant that the technology was being forced forwards by market demand.

New features meant new hardware requirements. The bloat eventually led to Vista, and the debacle with the "Vista capable" tags meant consumers were righteously angry. In response, the OS was forced to be more efficient. A more efficient OS meant less reason to upgrade hardware. No reason to update hardware meant a stagnation, where a $500 PC from 5 years prior could be a viable tool. If there's no reason to spend money people don't, so the pre-built market is stagnating.


The rise of the mobile device coincided with the efficient OS. A tablet or smart phone might not be powerful, but they could definitely best a three year old pre-built computer. The really attractive portion came when the price of a cheap tablet actually fell below that of a traditional mobile entertainment device (see the DS or Vita).

The tablet isn't good enough to be a productivity device, at least not at the $100 point. The real genius is that the input becomes familiar, so a later purchase of a sufficiently powerful device at $500 seems reasonable. People buy what they know, and the cheaper tablet devices have a much better chance of being purchased on a whim.


Now, all of the previous statements were based on experience. The simple truth is that Intel signaled that PC development wasn't focused on pushing limits any more when they allowed the enthusiast level hardware to lag the mainstream hardware by a generation. I don't appreciate it, but the PC is transitioning into something new. Being inflexible on seeing what the PC becomes won't save the traditional PC, no matter how much I'd personally like it to.
 
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#53
PC sales are down, yet PC gaming sales are wayyy up. You can't explain that! Can you, Gaben??
 

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#54
PC sales are down, yet PC gaming sales are wayyy up. You can't explain that! Can you, Gaben??
Don't know if you're serious or not, but there are PC's and there are PC's, and not all PC owners play games.
 

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#55
Most people i know have a PC, but not like my group of PC gamers. Most of the others use theirs for film, browsing etc, and game on a console.
 
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#56
??/ There was nothing wrong with Vista. I was a resource hog and they got that fixed.

10 year old PC's??? Now I am laughing. 10 year old PC users were and are ones who point blank cannot afford one past and present. This is pretty much the home user anyhow..... The problem is tablets and hand helds. Everyone is buying a tablet. If tablets and hand held phones did not exist, the PC market would be down pretty much according to the economy. How many 10 year old PC's do you see in the job market?

In the past 5 years, businesses could buy an adequate PC for under $300. That was NOT the case 10 years ago. If you could find anything close, the performance was shit. Today( and up to 5 years or so), $300 and under can get a business a very worthy computer and now you can get more mileage out of the box compared to yesteryear.

Even funnier, where do you get making software and facebook run like shit. Are you making things up? If companies did this there would be class action lawsuits all over the place.

All these ass writers do not take consideration how many tablets and handheld are produced and they do not include the new technology in economic figures. They pray on poor Intel losing marketshare and who gives a ratts ass. Technology has change and the PC will never be the PC again. Time for all the writing ass turds to get over this. Until CPU technology takes a major turn. people will have there current PC longer than many years in the past. Intels and AMDs loss is other companies gains ATM. The industry has shifted and probably will never be the same due to technology.




Less than 5%(probably less than 2%) of the market are individual components. The vast majority are Pre Builts so individual components won't push the bar either way.
Pc's since I've been alive have basically been the testbed for products that would later be added to the home usually in the form of entertainment....PC users are basically BETA testers for new tech...

But now you can carry all of that in a pouch or in your pocket for about $200 or less...
PC's are no longer in BETA development, SMART devices are...follow the trend like good little sheep.
I agree with both your arguments. Technology has changed the pc and for 1 I am excited to see how this changes. With nano tech being introduced into testing for components who knows were this market is going to go. For me the computer will never die. Right now mobile devices just to have the capabiltiy to match what desktops can do.
 

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#57
Personally, I think its down to many factors, and most have already been mentioned in this thread albeit some major points are slightly overlooked.

Software was mentioned. doesnt matter if its games or productivity software etc etc.

I have always firmly believed that the lack of dedicated 'pc only' titles lead to the slow demise of the enthusiast/gaming PC. Factor in the fact that almost every game released today is a glorified console port and when the same game is released on all devices its obvious which platform the consumer is going to buy into, Its not rocket science.

Part of the problem is Microsoft, they have pushed themselves into a difficult spot with the need to support both the PC platform and their consoles - hence thats why a lot of PC gaming studio's that were once owned by Microsoft have been shut down. Back in the day they were probably one of the biggest supporters as the PC being an entertainment device and not just something for office use.

the gaming industry needs to buck the trend. create PC only titles - titles that people want to play and gives people a reason to pick the game up. I cant even begin to express how unfairly the gaming pc has been treated in this field. there have been some extremely bad console ports, there have been some pretty good ones but games that are PC only are very few and far between. When consumers already own a console, they buy games for it instead because the games they want to play are released on it.

For example what if Battlefield or Call Of Duty returned to its roots and went pc only because the consoles just didnt have the processing power needed to run the game? Not only would they lose a fuck tonne of money but look at how much of the console community would follow when they move platforms - Im sure they would bring a lot of players over. Obviously they wont do that because they are too deep in the console market to pull off a stunt like that, but nothing is stopping them from making newer titles PC only to promote and push the platform.

Unfortunately you have many developers like Ubisoft & Epic Games with outdated views about how the PC platform is 'rife with piracy' when most of these devs havent made a game that people really really wanted to play in the last decade. Sure piracy is a problem. It will always be a problem but the community has changed so much since 10 years ago and since almost all games are multiplayer based, the chances of someone purchasing a game are a ridiculously a lot higher then 10 years ago. Whens the last time you heard of someone being able to get onto legit/authentic multiplayer servers with a cracked game?? I havent heard of this since CoD:WaW and even then you needed a server thats also been 'cracked' just so you can bypass the serial key checks and security measures. but those servers are usually full of wallhackers and botters, why anyone would want to join a server like that is beyond me unless they were part of the crowd that was doing the hacking.

the days of cracked Multiplayer servers are long gone. The community has moved on from all that and the devs need to move on as well instead of shunning the platform and embrace the advantages that comes along with the PC platform instead of just half-arsing a game, removing half of it for day 1 DLC then selling it on the console because they know people are stupid enough to buy it.

the industry needs to change. Unfortunately given how deeply rooted the console market is and the focus of developers its something of vicious uphill struggle if not a 'barking at the moon' rant.
 
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#58
For me the computer will never die. Right now mobile devices just to have the capabiltiy to match what desktops can do.
While I praise your dedication in desktop PCs, the inevitable truth is that it will be less relevant to companies as they see more profit growth focusing more on the mobile/tablets sector. But at the same time, mobile devices (specifically smartphones/tablets) will NEVER fully be able to do what a desktop can do because there won't ever be enough power to do so.

The small form factor of smartphones/tablets are there to appease teenagers, "on-the-go" business people, and travellers (maybe a few other target audiences that I might have left out). But there is simply not enough resources for a tablet to do heavy photoshopping/CAD/video editing. Gaming is also a very minor selling point in tablets, let alone they can't even put out the graphics that can rival a desktop. Businesses will also never get rid of the desktop because it's simply too much to sacrifice (application support, efficiency).
 
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#59
While I praise your dedication in desktop PCs, the inevitable truth is that it will be less relevant to companies as they see more profit growth focusing more on the mobile/tablets sector. But at the same time, mobile devices (specifically smartphones/tablets) will NEVER fully be able to do what a desktop can do because there won't ever be enough power to do so.

The small form factor of smartphones/tablets are there to appease teenagers, "on-the-go" business people, and travellers (maybe a few other target audiences that I might have left out). But there is simply not enough resources for a tablet to do heavy photoshopping/CAD/video editing. Gaming is also a very minor selling point in tablets, let alone they can't even put out the graphics that can rival a desktop. Businesses will also never get rid of the desktop because it's simply too much to sacrifice (application support, efficiency).
True about companies seeing profit growth on mobile sector. Problem is that alot of applications that establish companies use are held back due to the software vendors not meeting needs. As an example using out dated IE due to lack of java support for applications. These app databases and such depend on what is already there. So unless software companies are able to keep up to date faster a large corp would go the route of continuing desktop laptop support before purchasing or hiring a company to create programs that meet specific needs.
 

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#60
True about companies seeing profit growth on mobile sector. Problem is that alot of applications that establish companies use are held back due to the software vendors not meeting needs. As an example using out dated IE due to lack of java support for applications. These app databases and such depend on what is already there. So unless software companies are able to keep up to date faster a large corp would go the route of continuing desktop laptop support before purchasing or hiring a company to create programs that meet specific needs.
Apps aren't the only problem. The reason the mobile market is as strong as it is, is because people are comfortable with mobile devices they can put in a pocket or backpack. People are NOT comfortable sitting at a desk at a pc.

This is why, for some, consoles and PCs are in competition.. because the only use they see for PCs are either for games, or the internet. And a big part of that problem is the form factor of current PCs. The big monolithic tower is what is dying...not really PCs. Smartphones ARE PCs.

And you need to think about that part too...PC = PERSONAL COMPUTER. what's more personal than the device in your pocket, with a screen so small, it's hard to share?


Far too many people underestimate the impact of mindshare.
 

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#61
Apps aren't the only problem. The reason the mobile market is as strong as it is, is because people are comfortable with mobile devices they can put in a pocket or backpack. People are NOT comfortable sitting at a desk at a pc.

This is why, for some, consoles and PCs are in competition.. because the only use they see for PCs are either for games, or the internet. And a big part of that problem is the form factor of current PCs. The big monolithic tower is what is dying...not really PCs. Smartphones ARE PCs.

And you need to think about that part too...PC = PERSONAL COMPUTER. what's more personal than the device in your pocket, with a screen so small, it's hard to share?


Far too many people underestimate the impact of mindshare.
Agreed. I was actually watching a small interview video of Steve Ballmer talking about the change in form factors of the PC.

Basically said that PC isn't dying its changing. The form factor from big massive towers to small devices like tablets is what the PC is evolving too.

"PCs are changing form factors"
 
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#62
Agreed. I was actually watching a small interview video of Steve Ballmer talking about the change in form factors of the PC.

Basically said that PC isn't dying its changing. The form factor from big massive towers to small devices like tablets is what the PC is evolving too.

"PCs are changing form factors"
Do you happen to know were you seen that video or have a link that you can post I would like to watch it if possible. and I agree with you and the previous post. Didn't think of it that way but a good point!
 

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#63
Do you happen to know were you seen that video or have a link that you can post I would like to watch it if possible. and I agree with you and the previous post. Didn't think of it that way but a good point!
The market has been moving in this direction for many years now, really. AMD fired the CEO or whoever for not pushing mobile designs for this same reason.

Way back in 2005, I was talking about this, even, my posts are still here and there on the interwebs. :p. Like with how the technology is shrinking, the PC form factors have not. The designs that ARE shrunk PCs, tablets and smartphones, have huge adoption. Users have been asking me directly to tell OEMs to bring out more mITX boards basically since I started reviewing boards here @ TPU. We are just starting to see true enthusiast mITX boards, now.

For me, computing is not just about performance and benchmarks, it's also about fitting that "horsepower" into our daily lives, and simply put, the traditional PC doesn't fit in with a modern lifestyle. Back in 2005 I was talking about people only using thin clients, and maybe one big "server" PC that holds all the needed data, and today, that's reality with Windows Server and Cloud Computing, combined with tablet PCs, consoles, and smart phones.

The "desktop PC" died years ago, and those that are here, are simply on life-support because of product dev cycles. Home Computing and Gaming, those aren't the desktop PC, and too many people fail to make the distinction between those differences, and use these as reasons for the desktop PC NOT dying. To me, that's no different than complaining about a new OS: that's having a complete lack of vision.

I tend to try to find the silver lining, so to speak, in everything, and frankly, the silver lining that comes with the death of the current desktop PC is a bit green, because all I see is $$$. I dunno why everyone doesn't.. or simply they do, but want it all for themselves. :roll:
 
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#64
The market has been moving in this direction for many years now, really. AMD fired the CEO or whoever for not pushing mobile designs for this same reason.

Way back in 2005, I was talking about this, even, my posts are still here and there on the interwebs. :p. Like with how the technology is shrinking, the PC form factors have not. The designs that ARE shrunk PCs, tablets and smartphones, have huge adoption. Users have been asking me directly to tell OEMs to bring out more mITX boards basically since I started reviewing boards here @ TPU. We are just starting to see true enthusiast mITX boards, now.

For me, computing is not just about performance and benchmarks, it's also about fitting that "horsepower" into our daily lives, and simply put, the traditional PC doesn't fit in with a modern lifestyle. Back in 2005 I was talking about people only using thin clients, and maybe one big "server" PC that holds all the needed data, and today, that's reality with Windows Server and Cloud Computing, combined with tablet PCs, consoles, and smart phones.

The "desktop PC" died years ago, and those that are here, are simply on life-support because of product dev cycles. Home Computing and Gaming, those aren't the desktop PC, and too many people fail to make the distinction between those differences, and use these as reasons for the desktop PC NOT dying. To me, that's no different than complaining about a new OS: that's having a complete lack of vision.

I tend to try to find the silver lining, so to speak, in everything, and frankly, the silver lining that comes with the death of the current desktop PC is a bit green, because all I see is $$$. I dunno why everyone doesn't.. or simply they do, but want it all for themselves. :roll:
Dave has a very eloquent way of saying "I told you so".

Personally I just say......"I FU#KING TOLD YOU SO".
 

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#65
Dave has a very eloquent way of saying "I told you so".

Personally I just say......"I FU#KING TOLD YOU SO".
Two prophets told the filthy masses of the coming Revelation and after that, the Decline. Then they made sweet, fisty love to each other and covered the masses with their sticky juice of what they claimed was truth.
 

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#66
Two prophets told the filthy masses of the coming Revelation and after that, the Decline. Then they made sweet, fisty love to each other and covered the masses with their sticky juice of what they claimed was truth.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.


:wtf:
 

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#67
Do you happen to know were you seen that video or have a link that you can post I would like to watch it if possible. and I agree with you and the previous post. Didn't think of it that way but a good point!
I actually just tried to look for the original to post with what I replied with, but couldn't find it. all I could find is people editing that video with his voice as a small girl, with much different dialogue.
 
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#68
PC sales are down, yet PC gaming sales are wayyy up. You can't explain that! Can you, Gaben??
Nerdy people like you and me buy them! Hahahahaha:slap::slap::slap:
 
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#69
It's not because people are not using PC's. It's because PC's 5 years ago are still relevant to an average user. It doesn't take a lot of power to browse Facebook or play there web based games. Blame the developer for average content. The only people that are keeping there computer up to date is gamers, and enthusiasts and we have a small foot hold on the market.
That and the fact that people are buying tablets. When people buy tablets it normally means the time until they upgrade their desktop increases.
 

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#70
I can't wait till they quit trying to make these tablets smaller and start making them more powerful and upgradable. Start throwing some ports on these tablets for those of us that like to use them. I understand most things are going bluetooth and wifi but some of us could throw away laptops all together if i had an ethernet, serial, or even more usbs.
 
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#71
What do they count as PC sale? If you buy a CPU+MoBo+RAM combo, did you buy a PC? So these declining figures are for prebuilt PCs. I guess nobody buys ready built PCs anymore, everyone and their grandma knows how to build one.
 
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#72
What do they count as PC sale? If you buy a CPU+MoBo+RAM combo, did you buy a PC? So these declining figures are for prebuilt PCs. I guess nobody buys ready built PCs anymore, everyone and their grandma knows how to build one.
Its hard to say, the OP did'nt have a link to the quote for further evidence.
 

rtwjunkie

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#73
What do they count as PC sale? If you buy a CPU+MoBo+RAM combo, did you buy a PC? So these declining figures are for prebuilt PCs. I guess nobody buys ready built PCs anymore, everyone and their grandma knows how to build one.
I believe it's referring to pre-built, brand-name PC's, which indeed are declining. What you are describing is enthusiast purchases for self-builds, and those sales numbers are extremely strong.